From Heaven to Hell... with a broken heart.

[Doll]

ML, this woman was with a 8 yo child which makes a big difference.
8 yo understands a lot.
The woman was "ok" when the kid was sleeping, other than that she considered  the "company".

[ML]

ML, this woman was with a 8 yo child which makes a big difference.
8 yo understands a lot.
The woman was "ok" when the kid was sleeping, other than that she considered  the "company".

Yes, I understand.

But Dave and I were referring to the more general situation of PDA in the FSU and we seemed to be of a different opinion than some other posters.

[Doll]

I hear you, but when Mikey mentioned "scratching her back when she was waiting for the change for coffee" (or what was it?), I understood how she felt at the moment. Or what else was it that Mikey wanted to be "displayed"? Hugs and kisses?
I am in Russia now- in a University area which means thousands of young people around. I see holding hands sometimes, barely hugging in public. This is just how it is here- different culture. People have same feelings but they behave differently in public.
As for scratching back- is a big no. I know how it feels, still hate it.))))
I had same issues with my AM (now husband) on the first date. The difference was - he asked why I didn't like it and I explained. He understood right away. This probably is the reason we have been married for more than 10 years- he realizes that many things are different with "another culture woman". I do appreciate it.

[Vasilisa]

?
I am in Russia now- in a University area which means thousands of young people around. I see holding hands sometimes, barely hugging in public. This is just how it is here- different culture. People have same feelings but they behave differently in public.

I agree. All those public touchings-kisses is a behavioral feature of very young people, maybe University  students, I saw it extremely seldom among people 30+ and these people are normally drunk. If people do it they obviously do it in private.

I'd say the exception would be scammers or GCG that want to impress their foreign boy-friends.

[Vasilisa]

By the way, I remembered that kissing story with Brezhnev and thought that in Chinese culture it is also not such a common thing.
I found an article:
http://laowaiblog.com/a-hug-a-kiss-or-a-wave/

"It seems that Chinese people (and people from other Asian nations) do not express feelings the same way westerners do. In China, it is not common to see people hugging, kissing or even shaking hands. Emotions are rather expressed in actions and in deeds which are aimed towards certain individuals or towards society as a whole.
"

http://www.chinaodysseytours.com/travel-guide-book/proper-protocol-etiquette.html
"Modesty:
Chinese people are inherently shy and modest. They do not display emotion and feelings in public and find speaking bluntly unnerving. Most couples never even hold hands when walking in public. For the most part, Chinese people never hug or kiss in public. The most public display seen when saying hello or goodbye is generally a handshake."

[Doll]

Vasilisa, this ADP is seldom in University area either! Kids are between 17 yo and 22 yo, still behave without ADP.
Almost never for 30+, forget 40+.

[mikeyUSA]

Okay... so, we can agree.. for a 36 year old RW, she does not like PDA.   So, this is what got me so flustered, as what is seen in my 'time-line' write up.   I'm sad to learn this only now... from you wonderful people of course.   Looking back, it was something that I should not have been so 'flustered by'.  I wish I had known this earlier, before my trip.

  In fact, when she got upset about my conversation about "PDA" on the 5th night, and went to her room, she said to me, just before she closed the door, "Michael, stop thinking so much about things...  Every thing is fine.... I like you... I like you... <kiss,kiss,kiss>,  but we are not even together yet, and you are already trying to change me".

  I wish I had of known this fact about PDA before I opened my big mouth.  I wish there were not mis-communications, I wish this, and that, and that...  but, as I have already learned... my dumb ass "interpretations" have screwed me. Sure, she was not that into me.  Sure, she still had other guys to talk to...   Sure, I was left 'on the shelf' as a potential suitor.   But, as I have come to realize, I must move on, because things just don't work out like the fairy tale that I was believing in.  My head was truly in the clouds.  I was also un-educated about RW.  But, I know now, for sure.  As someone has already said, "education is gold in your pocket for next time".  And, I will tell you, I am a very good man... a very handsome man... a very successful man.  But now... NOW!!!  I am a very well educated man when it comes to the 'next time'.

There is a saying in America, "I am my own worst enemy".   And, I think here, I was. 

what a horrible chain of events... and I only fueled the fire, and burned it to the ground.

She just was not that into me.  Otherwise, "I would have no doubt". 

You guys are so great... please keep slapping me in the face... please...  in the last couple days, I have never felt so much better about 'things', than when I started to talk with you guys.   Some of you say things like, "If you can't take my criticism, dont' read anymore of my post"... but, those posts, have been the best for me. They are by far the best, and what helps me to "wake up". So please, keep it coming.

Of course, I am a hurt man, so I will wine sometimes.. but, please, keep it coming.   i wish I could post a photo of us together, her holding onto me, with a big smile and loving glow... but, I cannot do that, out of respect for her.  She would not want me to post a photo of her online.  But, I can assure you, she is a 'strong 8', soft 9   (I think she is a 12).     But of course, and I will wine here... "she is the most beautiful women in the world"...    (so such says a love struck puppy dog).

[Doll]

What city is she from?

[mikeyUSA]

What city is she from?

Out of respect for her, I cannot say, but, I can say that she is come kamchatka. it is a very big place with many cities.  But, the entire area is not so good.  I hope this will fuel  a good response to me.

And you know what funny...  I have been talking to her for so long, when I talk to people in the USA, they ask me, "where are you from".  I have to explain, "I am from here, but, I talk to someone in another country, so I have to space my words out, so that they will understand what I say".  And, in addition, when I write, I also have to write in such a way, that I am already used to, so that she can understand, the words that I am saying....

Funny..  So cute, but yet so sad... so stupid...

[Doll]

So, it is a Far East? I asked to estimate how much the ticket to Moscow could be. If it is Kamchatka or any place in Siberia, then it cost a lot to you.

[mikeyUSA]

So, it is a Far East? I asked to estimate how much the ticket to Moscow could be. If it is Kamchatka or any place in Siberia, then it cost a lot to you.

Okay, I will tell you.  She lives in Kamchatka.  eastern Russia.  She flew to first 'Irkutsk'. and then, to Moscow area, and then back home.

[mikeyUSA]

So, it is a Far East? I asked to estimate how much the ticket to Moscow could be. If it is Kamchatka or any place in Siberia, then it cost a lot to you.

She told me the plane tickets would be about 1500 USD... But, she said to me, "mike, I have to eat on my trip, and I threw in an addition 200 dollars.

 She had actually asked me for 2 grand.   

What gets me now, is she never asked me for "hotel costs".

Yeah, keep slapping me... I need this.   Freaking stupid michael.

[Doll]

It is a lot. That part was not fair to you.

[mikeyUSA]

It is a lot. That part was not fair to you.

Yeah... and after I talked with you guys... do you think I will do it again?   Of course not. But, I did research the prices of airplane tickets, and yes, it does cost about that much.... but again, she did not ask for "hotel costs".  So, yes, keep slapping me, and also, put a hammer to my head and beat it into me how stupid I am.  I need it.

My thoughts are, that as long as she was able to pay for the costs to meet this guy, then he would meet her half way to pay for hotel room.   

again, just guessing.

[Patagonie]

Yeah, maybe...  but I kept my cool pretty good though.   I've read many books on the art of dating, so I put them into action.

I think maybe, what your seeing is a broken man, anybody will probably do this, need someone to talk to, and you guys have been freakin great.  and you know, right after I started talking to you guys, I feel sooo much better.

I got my head stuck in the clouds, I was fool to think I was the only one, a fool to put all my eggs in one basket, a fool to bring the child, etc., etc., etc...

Also, I failed to mention, I actually am dating locally again.  I had a date 2 days ago... I'm trying to get one tonight (she tells me she's trying to 'break away' from a previous planned engagement so she can meet me).  I was at lunch today, and I was trying to get the opportunity to ask this cute girl out, but I couldn't get it.

Very good. Get some dates and meet others women. It is the right attitude. Train yourself locally. Which books of dating are you reading ? You can PM if you want i would tell you my opinion (or here i don't care).

[Doll]

Mikey, forget it. She didn't like something in you and she used your money for something.
Let it go.
 

[Patagonie]

Mikey they are no 12. I have seen since my childhood over the world many women. The maximum i have seen is a 9.7 in Vinnitsa and i spent one or two hours with a 9.5 in Kiev one time. You need to come in FSU and stroll around the big avenues in summer or seat in the biggest terraces of big cities to understand.

[Belvis]

My thoughts are, that as long as she was able to pay for the costs to meet this guy, then he would meet her half way to pay for hotel room.   

Does not matter now if any guy was involved there. Will you feel better if she just visited her friends?
You keep thinking of her all the time. I wander what is so special in this "firm 8" with bad traits. Well, I tend to like bitches too, but remotely.
Actually, she was not so bad extorting from you only 2k$. Guys learn much harder lessons.

[Iceberg7811]

Thats true, cut the losses and move on.

[Chelseaboy]

Mikey,
          You say you're very handsome and very successful,and a very good man.
Stop pining about an 8 maybe 9,with an eight year old kid,and go out and get a 9,maybe a 10,in character as well as in appearance,with no kids.
For a guy like you,the world is your oyster...seriously.You're the prize,so you should be in control.
I cannot imagine the girls/women you'll be meeting,Just keep your wits about you,and don't let any of them take advantage of you again.
 
 
 
 

[CDW]

Yeah, keep slapping me... I need this.   Freaking stupid michael.

WAKE UP, YOU FOOKING IDIOT, MIKE!!  TIME TO MOVE ON

Did I slap you hard enough this time?  18 point font - not enough for you ????

[CDW]

She told me the plane tickets would be about 1500 USD... But, she said to me, "mike, I have to eat on my trip, and I threw in an addition 200 dollars.

 She had actually asked me for 2 grand.   

Cheaper to go there by train.

It is about $300 from Moscow to Vladivostock on Trans-Siberian railway - 3rd class berth, but obviously much cheaper for your ex-lady to go to Moscow from her city.  She doesn't have a job, and she has plenty of time to get there.

$200 for food?  Expensive restaurant????



A lady whom I had corresponded asked me to pay her the plane ticket from Donetsk to Kiev because it was too far for her to travel by train.   I have never met her.  I told her that:  I have to go to Heathrow London from Portsmouth (1 1/2 hours trip), and have to wait at the airport (3 hours), and fly to Kiev from Heathrow (4 hours) and that's 8 1/2 hours trip but I haven't asked for an "air taxi"

[Shadow]

Cheaper to go there by train.

It is about $300 from Moscow to Vladivostock on Trans-Siberian railway - 3rd class berth, but obviously much cheaper for your ex-lady to go to Moscow from her city.  She doesn't have a job, and she has plenty of time to get there.

$200 for food?  Expensive restaurant????



A lady whom I had corresponded asked me to pay her the plane ticket from Donetsk to Kiev because it was too far for her to travel by train.   I have never met her.  I told her that:  I have to go to Heathrow London from Portsmouth (1 1/2 hours trip), and have to wait at the airport (3 hours), and fly to Kiev from Heathrow (4 hours) and that's 8 1/2 hours trip but I haven't asked for an "air taxi"

And you never heard from her again.

[Doll]

A lady whom I had corresponded asked me to pay her the plane ticket from Donetsk to Kiev because it was too far for her to travel by train.   I have never met her.  I told her that:  I have to go to Heathrow London from Portsmouth (1 1/2 hours trip), and have to wait at the airport (3 hours), and fly to Kiev from Heathrow (4 hours) and that's 8 1/2 hours trip but I haven't asked for an "air taxi"

well, it is up to you, but most WM do pay for the plane tickets.
So did my husband-to-be on our first date. Actually he sent 4 times more than what was needed. He did it before we met. I was a single mom with 2 kids so couldn't afford it. It was somewhat $100 from Krasnodar to Moscow. He trusted, he had to)))

[CDW]

And you never heard from her again.

Yes, that's right, and it wasn't surprised!