Pro-dater?

[Ranetka]

And another point. If i went supposedly to see my romantic interest and ended up negotiating price of apartment with him that will be my last contact with him. Because i am not trying to make a buck out of my possible future partner . I expect my possible future partner not making money on me when i came to see him. The op saw her making money on him and he still went along. So i say yes he on some level treated it a bit like a business deal. Hopefully helearned his lesson .

[calmissile]

ML, well mainly because he is stll happy to invite her to have a holiday with him! Read the original post again his concern is will she show up if he pays to the travel agency or not  ! He invites her so yeah if she accept the ticket and shows up then he will be alright and all good, right? Besides what is the point to talk about the woman? She is not the one reading forum and asking question . Would it be better if she did not show up for lunches at all, not arranged a city tour , just left him in his apartment ? I have to assume she did not like him but still acted like a host . Did she not? I do not even know was the meals that expensive ? People have different attitude to money. For example if my date picked up the cheapest coffee for me i would have been offended as its generally disgusting . But this attitude works for you so expensive clearly is relative. I am very direct and not materialistic at all thats why i am poor lol but i have been known to be extra nice to get a dinner out of my date. Just for fun of it. Dont spend if you Cant afford and do not spend if you do not enjoy!

I think you make it very clear what your values are.  We should just accept them and not argue with you.  LOL

[Ranetka]

Cal, not sure what you mean by my values. At the moment i value most in men intelligent conversation and good sex. I can forgive a lot if those are present.

[ECOCKS]

.....

So why can you not be objective here, stick with the facts, and present a balanced view?

It is clear (we must for now go with the only version of  the story we know), that the woman did not just 'not returned interest as you had hoped.'

His story was full of info about inflated prices for almost everything on the trip, with the woman splitting this excess with someone.

And this man already said he did not seek sex; yet you seem to always throw the seeking sex angle into many posts in attempting to show the men in a bad light.

In this thread, and many others, the men freely attack and blame the men.

Why cannot the women here also freely attack and blame the women?

It is my strong feeling that the vast majority of men (and certainly the ones that post their stories  here) are not going to FSU to get only sex and are not intending to take advantage of the women or treat them badly.

But many of the women who post here seem to always imply the opposite.

Because, deep down inside, many know that this is the way a lot of women in the FSU think.

I am so tired of hearing the lame responses about how the man has the responsibility to take care of his woman and she has the right to verify his financial situation, be sure the children are taken care of, determine her standard of living, blah, blah, blah.....

This is what happens when you cross cultures and encounter both  economic disparity and an unstable region where value systems are comparatively upside down, backwards and sideways from each other.

Oh, about that vaccine against gullible suggestion someone made. The businessman would be broke in a short time. Nobody wants the fantasy taken away, not even the stuffiest, sharp-penciled accountant (or whatever) your imagination can turn out from the stereotypes..

[calmissile]

Cal, not sure what you mean by my values. At the moment i value most in men intelligent conversation and good sex. I can forgive a lot if those are present.

That's not all bad!    LOL

[Ranetka]

Because deep down everyone understand the biggest asset a 47 y o has when dealing with 30 y o when there is a little common ground between them is his wallet. Russian culture same as English does not place THAT high emphasise nor on man being wealthy not on woman being extra slim or perfect beauty .

[Daveman]

Cal, not sure what you mean by my values. At the moment i value most in men intelligent conversation and good sex. I can forgive a lot if those are present.

Do those necessarily need be present simultaneously??   

[Gator]

Example 1) As we were walking through a metro station after first date; the gal said, buy me some roses.  We stopped in front of the babushka and I asked how much for one.  The gal said, I want 12.  I bought one (this was the extent of the scam), put her on the metro and never made contact again.   

Good move on your part.  However, are you sure your memory is correct?  A RW would never want 12 roses.

Example 2) After first  date, we stopped at shop to buy a small cake for dessert in my apt.  She asked if I had coffee.  I said I had only tea. She started looking at the coffees and selected the most expensive imported brand which was about 10 times the price of the Folgers I spotted. I put her selection back on shelf and picked up the Folgers.  Outside the shop, I told her I wasn't feeling too good, so we should end our date. I never made contact with her again.  I ate the cake and drank the
coffee.

Bad move IMO.   Folgers is disgusting.   This woman knew quality and wanted to share it with a man whom she found interesting.  Maybe you would have learned something valuable from her. 

  These were on WMVM visits.  The  point is, you just stop the nonsense at the very beginning.

Yes, the nonsense, but why be a tightwad?

The gals I stay with for several dates are the ones who say:  This restaurant is too expensive; or the prices in this shop are too expensive; I can make these items for you myself, etc.    These are the ones I later spend a lot of money on with trips to exotic places, expensive restaurants, etc.

Good sign, yet the FSUW read RW-AM  forums and are schooled to behave this way if they are interested in a man.  That and such things as saying "Thank you" frequently and smiling at bad jokes.   So I do not consider it a valid test of a woman's character.

If I like a woman, even at the first hour of our first meeting, I want to have a good time and that means having good food and fine wine even if it is more expensive than the menu at an insipid hole in the wall.  We are all different.   
 
Ranetka summarizes it best:  "Dont spend if you Cant afford and do not spend if you do not enjoy!"  I add, if you do spend and do not get the results you expect, it may be that the woman does not like you.   Move on.

[Ranetka]

Daveman,   ...stimul...what? Ha ha

[Hammer2722]

Good move on your part.  However, are you sure your memory is correct?  A RW would never want 12 roses.

Maybe she was planning on attending a family funeral later on and needed them? 

[Daveman]

Daveman,   ...stimul...what? Ha ha

 


Good one!

[Ranetka]

Must say never in my life i met a man able to produce a good sex and intelligent conversation simultaneously . Or was i not able to appreciate it? Need to consult my ex.

[dreamer_1965]

When she suggested that flat to me, it was the first warning bell, but I've never heard about pro-daters before some days ago. And in the beginning I tried to believe everything she said, cos everybody can have bad luck. As I wrote, I got more and more warning bells, but I was already there and my thoughts was to do the best of the situation, at least try to enjoy her company (and we had fun and talked about everything) and our dinners, the dinners we had were not expensive anyway, and I had nobody else to talk with (as I said I can't any Russian). Some lunches was very cheap meals that we brought to eat in the nature. It was the flights and the flat that costed me money, not so much else.

Of course I still had many doubts when I invited her on a common travel, therefore I didn't want to pay for the whole travel, I wanted to see if she could stake on anything. And when she said she didn't have afford, it wasn't really hard to not believe that .The greatest warning bell was when she suggested that she could book a travel at her agency.After that I have had very little trust in her, but have tried to test her to be very sure she was a scammer or not. After she again suggested to book a travel for us (which I have to transfer money for), I just have playing with her, until I could be more sure what to do (drop everything, revenge ,try to make her do mistakesthat can be illegal and so on)

Somebody asked about my wallet (sorry I don't remember your name now, but you have had great posts contrary many others that only tried to be funny on a very childish manner) ; I was a bit drunken late in the evening and lost my credit card, the woman had nothing to do with that.

Yes, I'm a bit naive, I like to believe the best in humans before I'm more sure. That's maybe my weakness. But I also prepare for the worst, as I said I become very careful as soon as she talked about the price of the flat. Except the flat she didn't got much else from me.

[Ranetka]

Well if she did not make you to spend much money then why do you think she is a scammer? If your only worry is the ukr travel agency may be you can ask someone independent to validate it? There are some people in ukr well recommended here who could do that for you for a small fee?

[dreamer_1965]

It's one more thing I've been thinking of;
She said she had to work much, and when we was together she talked very much in phone. She did never go away to do that (but she was maybe sure I can't any Russian), and it sounded like when you talk to your boss, discussing business, absolutely not like she would be talking to a friend or another man.

Somebody that has good explanation about that?

[Ranetka]

I mean instead of sending money to her deal directly with the agency.

[dreamer_1965]

She said that agency had no site on English language.

[jone]

Yes, the nonsense, but why be a tightwad?
If I like a woman, even at the first hour of our first meeting, I want to have a good time and that means having good food and fine wine even if it is more expensive than the menu at an insipid hole in the wall.  We are all different.   
 
Ranetka summarizes it best:  "Dont spend if you Cant afford and do not spend if you do not enjoy!"  I add, if you do spend and do not get the results you expect, it may be that the woman does not like you.   Move on.

You know, I was thinking back.  A funny thing happened when I saw that Pro-dater that took me.  I had fun.  We live a very short lifetime.  It was the one time that I knew I was paying for something and had no possibility of continuing the relationship. 

Hey, men pay for it all of the time.  That is one thing that women have over us.  If I had called her out, it would have been silly.  She would have gone away mad.  And I would have gone away disappointed.  Instead, I took it for what it was worth and we had a blast. 

I've attached a picture. 

May all of your scams be as happy.

[Faux Pas]

Must say never in my life i met a man able to produce a good sex and intelligent conversation simultaneously . Or was i not able to appreciate it? Need to consult my ex.

The ability for men to do both simultaneously defy all the laws of physics. So I am told 

[Patagonie]

When she suggested that flat to me, it was the first warning bell, but I've never heard about pro-daters before some days ago. And in the beginning I tried to believe everything she said, cos everybody can have bad luck. As I wrote, I got more and more warning bells, but I was already there and my thoughts was to do the best of the situation, at least try to enjoy her company (and we had fun and talked about everything) and our dinners, the dinners we had were not expensive anyway, and I had nobody else to talk with (as I said I can't any Russian). Some lunches was very cheap meals that we brought to eat in the nature. It was the flights and the flat that costed me money, not so much else.

Of course I still had many doubts when I invited her on a common travel, therefore I didn't want to pay for the whole travel, I wanted to see if she could stake on anything. And when she said she didn't have afford, it wasn't really hard to not believe that .The greatest warning bell was when she suggested that she could book a travel at her agency.After that I have had very little trust in her, but have tried to test her to be very sure she was a scammer or not. After she again suggested to book a travel for us (which I have to transfer money for), I just have playing with her, until I could be more sure what to do (drop everything, revenge ,try to make her do mistakesthat can be illegal and so on)

Somebody asked about my wallet (sorry I don't remember your name now, but you have had great posts contrary many others that only tried to be funny on a very childish manner) ; I was a bit drunken late in the evening and lost my credit card, the woman had nothing to do with that.

Yes, I'm a bit naive, I like to believe the best in humans before I'm more sure. That's maybe my weakness. But I also prepare for the worst, as I said I become very careful as soon as she talked about the price of the flat. Except the flat she didn't got much else from me.

Guy i am going to tell you this  :
people are not black or whith, so either the scammers. It is why she let you 20 $.
A lot of FSU women are not capable to afford even a round trip in an european country. Yes true.
You have been prudent to not send any money to any of her account.
Prove something, is she a scammer, is she .... ??? is irrelevant. As soon as your internal voice tell you few times : run, it is time to run. What about yours standards guy ?
YOu are the man, you have a pair, you control the process, it is your money, it is you who choice what you want to do. If she not likes NEXT.
If you have lost your credit card : i hope that you have done the necessary with your bank. And that you enjoy the lesson next time to not rely on this, and bring a maximum of cash for your security (if it had happened in the beginning of the trip ????).
Put her on an antiscam agency is your decision. Personally i have nothing wrong with such thing. But what people want to tell you is like this : put everywhere on the road a flag with "here Mr X had crashed and died" had never prevent and help the alive drivers. So  best to take some lessons of driving, put your seat belt, buy a better car, equipped it with very good tyres and so on. It is better to have a good tuition rather than a good hospital.

[calmissile]

Must say never in my life i met a man able to produce a good sex and intelligent conversation simultaneously . Or was i not able to appreciate it? Need to consult my ex.

I guess women multiplex much better than men.  LOL

[Marian]

I guess women multiplex much better than men.  LOL

Yeah..it´s nothing new that they are better in Multitasking..

[ML]

Must say never in my life i met a man able to produce a good sex and intelligent conversation simultaneously .

Our parents taught us to not talk with our mouths full.

[Ranetka]

ML, speechless lol

[GQBlues]

Must say never in my life i met a man able to produce a good sex and intelligent conversation simultaneously ...

Got me. I'm not sure what's so intelligent with, "...Uhmm, yeah that's it babe. Right there. Oh yeah! Is that good for you as it is for me?..."