Pro-dater?

[Belvis]

She said she had to work much, and when we was together she talked very much in phone. She did never go away to do that (but she was maybe sure I can't any Russian), and it sounded like when you talk to your boss, discussing business, absolutely not like she would be talking to a friend or another man.

Somebody that has good explanation about that?

It does not matter with whom she was talking. Long talking in phone at a date is the clear sign of disregard in relation to you. Just unacceptable behaviour in russian culture too.
After all you said I'd like to see her photo. She must be exceptional beauty to keep you close with all her actions.

[cc3]

  Again, provided your post
is real it is a to common post of men who do write one, visit one.  All your egg's in one basket
and you got a bad egg.

You really should hold off on writing any new ladies until you can get more educated to the process.

Jack, I must have won the Ukrainian dating lottery because I wrote one and visited one and am now engaged to the most wonderful woman I have ever known.

[jone]

If you can put this lady to bed (end your thoughts of her) and begin to look forward, there are so many things to learn from this site.  Specifically, some have mentioned that you should have many choices when you go to an FSU country.  While I don't quite view things that way, it is nice to have two or three relationships on a back burner that you could bring forward if you run into a scamming situation. 

I have a friend of mine who lives in Kyiv.  She tells me that she is always 'Plan B'.  What she means is that men contact her through various methods, but when it comes time to meet, they have already committed elsewhere.  Here's the kicker:  She's beautiful and she's available.  She's a sharp lady, a lawyer, and is extremely considerate of the effort it takes to go overseas. 

Understand that she is not either discouraged or vindictive.  She just doesn't understand, when so many of her friends are successful in finding their loves, why she can't.  I was trying to set her up with a friend of mine, but he was too cowardly to make the trip overseas.

The point of this post is to remind you that there are women there that are just as discouraged as you are right now and to keep moving forward.  You'll get there.

[dreamer_1965]

I got a funny thought in my head when you talked about your friend in Kiev;
It would be much easier to have a list on honest women in Ukraine, than billions of data of scammers and pro-daters everywhere on internet...

I have been corresponding with maybe 20 Ukrainian women since I decided to visit dating sites, all scammers that I did recognised before I had to waste some money. But it different with these pro-daters, when you have to do the travel before you got to know what they are.
Or maybe I'm just a scammer-magnet... I'm very blue-eyed literary too, maybe have to wear sunglasses in my photos from now on...

[CDW]

Good move on your part.  However, are you sure your memory is correct?  A RW would never want 12 roses.

Buying 12 roses is still a good business    Simple arithmetic:  11 roses for 1 woman and another 1 rose for another woman 

[CDW]

If you can put this lady to bed (end your thoughts of her) and begin to look forward, there are so many things to learn from this site.  Specifically, some have mentioned that you should have many choices when you go to an FSU country.  While I don't quite view things that way, it is nice to have two or three relationships on a back burner that you could bring forward if you run into a scamming situation. 

I have a friend of mine who lives in Kyiv.  She tells me that she is always 'Plan B'.  What she means is that men contact her through various methods, but when it comes time to meet, they have already committed elsewhere.  Here's the kicker:  She's beautiful and she's available.  She's a sharp lady, a lawyer, and is extremely considerate of the effort it takes to go overseas. 

Understand that she is not either discouraged or vindictive.  She just doesn't understand, when so many of her friends are successful in finding their loves, why she can't.  I was trying to set her up with a friend of mine, but he was too cowardly to make the trip overseas.

The point of this post is to remind you that there are women there that are just as discouraged as you are right now and to keep moving forward.  You'll get there.

Maybe it is the real problem that she is a lawyer, and another problem is that perhaps many men want to find a housewife who can cook ,clean and wash.    This woman is a career woman which might put them off.    Being as a career woman herself, will she be happy at home alone, doing housework while her husband is working ????  That's the real problem.

[CDW]

I got a funny thought in my head when you talked about your friend in Kiev;
It would be much easier to have a list on honest women in Ukraine, than billions of data of scammers and pro-daters everywhere on internet...

I have been corresponding with maybe 20 Ukrainian women since I decided to visit dating sites, all scammers that I did recognised before I had to waste some money. But it different with these pro-daters, when you have to do the travel before you got to know what they are.
Or maybe I'm just a scammer-magnet... I'm very blue-eyed literary too, maybe have to wear sunglasses in my photos from now on...

You got that part right. 

[ECOCKS]

Maybe it is the real problem that she is a lawyer, and another problem is that perhaps many men want to find a housewife who can cook ,clean and wash.    This woman is a career woman which might put them off.    Being as a career woman herself, will she be happy at home alone, doing housework while her husband is working ????  That's the real problem.

Might be if it wasn't for the women lawyers I know first-hand who work as receptionists, taxi drivers, store managers, HR assistants and English teachers....


Being a lawyer in the FSU isn't quite the same as being a lawyer in other parts of the world.


But even for a moment, assume this is the case. What man wouldn't want a sharp, drop-dead gorgeous woman who can bring home the bacon? Oh yeah, all those trophy hunters who get their bluffs called I guess....

[Daveman]

I got a funny thought in my head when you talked about your friend in Kiev;
It would be much easier to have a list on honest women in Ukraine, than billions of data of scammers and pro-daters everywhere on internet...

Seems you are suggesting a non sequitur conclusion based on an extremely limited selection of women (as illustrated below).  Which websites?


It's the point I was attempting to get across before.. fish tend to "school".  "Scammer" type women tend to frequent specific locations. 

I have been corresponding with maybe 20 Ukrainian women since I decided to visit dating sites, all scammers that I did recognised before I had to waste some money. But it different with these pro-daters, when you have to do the travel before you got to know what they are.
Or maybe I'm just a scammer-magnet... I'm very blue-eyed literary too, maybe have to wear sunglasses in my photos from now on...

So, somehow 20 from somewhere translates into billions??     Let's apply the Law of Parsimony (Occam's Razor)...


-You see gorillas monsters in the mist. Everywhere.


-You possess irresistible metaphysical invisible tractor beam properties which attract nefarious women from across the internet, allowing them to zero in specifically on you. 


-You produce a trail of "screw me over" pheromones wherever you go.


-You are frequenting websites (and perhaps chasing the hottest bikini/glamphoto babes) more conducive to the processes of separating men from their money and therefore contain a larger number of women who specialize in the art of separating men from their money


-Some combination of those and/or perhaps other potential and identifiable factors which are diverting you from your goal.

[Shadow]

If you really wish to try to hurt her earnings the only thing is to notify the Ukrainian tax office. Send them some money with your letter if you wish them to really care.

[dreamer_1965]

Seems you are suggesting a non sequitur conclusion based on an extremely limited selection of women (as illustrated below).  Which websites?


It's the point I was attempting to get across before.. fish tend to "school".  "Scammer" type women tend to frequent specific locations. 







So, somehow 20 from somewhere translates into billions??     Let's apply the Law of Parsimony (Occam's Razor)...


-You see gorillas monsters in the mist. Everywhere.


-You possess irresistible metaphysical invisible tractor beam properties which attract nefarious women from across the internet, allowing them to zero in specifically on you. 


-You produce a trail of "screw me over" pheromones wherever you go.


-You are frequenting websites (and perhaps chasing the hottest bikini/glamphoto babes) more conducive to the processes of separating men from their money and therefore contain a larger number of women who specialize in the art of separating men from their money


-Some combination of those and/or perhaps other potential and identifiable factors which are diverting you from your goal.

I thought there was more clever and decent people here, that not have to take a semi-joke literally...
And like many else here, seems to be more interested to making mockery to newbies, rather than try to help them or give any advice.

I have got several personal mails from members since I started this thread. People that also have been victims of pro'daters. Now I understand why the sent to me and not posted here, it's no meaning to post here, when so many seems to hunt the victims instead of the scammers. And even worse when it's from the moderators too.

I know I have been naive, but I don't deserve a lot of crap. My travel to that girl costs me about 1500 euro totally (with flights, flat ,taxis, dinners, etc), and 300 of that I spent on own entertainments. So I don't think I'm the most naive here, I bet many of you have lost much more than that because of scammers.
So, please take notice how it was for all of you when you were green on this, before you throw your own negative mind on others.

I thought one of the moderators work was to avoid personal attacks, but obviously not...

All this wasn't written personally to anyone, but those who feel hit can do it...

For those that really didn't understand what I ment with "billions of data on scammers", of course I ment that that it's very difficult to search a specified woman, by her name (that could be false, and maybe she have many alias) and even harder to search photos, when it's so many different places and data to lock at.
Maybe you understand better now?
I guess some of you will read this through thoroughly and try find something new to hit on to make yourselves feeling like supermen. Then do it... I don't care, because I'm sick of how you treat people here.
It's really a pity, because it's also many very nice and helpful people here, and many need their help and advices.
Thanks for my time here, even if it become very short, and good luck for all you decent people here.

[Daveman]

Oh please... there was nothing remotely resembling a personal attack.


relax and have some fun with your thread...

[Shadow]

Dreamer you should understand that we are all humans.
And the moderator here have seen stories like yours so many times that we tend to forget the human drama for one person. At the same time your loss is some money and a hurt feeling between your legs.

As for the money, if you can not lose that amount you were in trouble even before you began. No I am not saying it is worthless, as I would love to see it as extra in my bank account on some days. But at the same time I would not start traveling to the FSU unless I was able to spend it and recover.

As for the feelings, yep its hard when you wish to find a wife and get taken for a ride. Been there so I know how it feels, even if I did not met a pro-dater.

The message we try to tell here is about your own behaviour in this case. It is a very common mistake, and it is hard to find a way out of it.
When you go to meet someone, your mind should be very clear about it. You are not going to meet your fiancee, you are not going to be introduced to a certain future wife.
All you are doing is meeting another person that you may have a connection with based on internet correspondence, which can be very different from how that person is in real life.
This means that no matter how stunning she is, no matter how nice her smile or how sweet her letters were, you have to judge her on her behaviour once you meet.

Does she do everything she can to make the meeting enjoyable?
Does she try to let you in to het life, or seem to keep you out of it?
Does she continue to show enthusiasm to be with you or seems to withdraw?

If the answers to all of this are negative, you have to draw the conclusion that she is not interested in you as a partner.
Now if you were to meet not the person in the pictures but a 150Kg ugly granny, you would have no trouble in cutting her off and running home. So if the person of the picture does not show the behaviour that is expected from someone interested to be your wife, why hang on to it like she is the only woman in the world?

I hope this makes you understand better why some people respond with ridicule.
As for my response, it was fully serious. If you would understand the culture of the FSU ,you would know.

[jone]

Excellent response by Shadow.  DaveMan was alittle off his feed today, but  he's a thoughtful individual who I don't believe has a mean bone in his body (quoting Occam' Razor - Gimmee a break! )  except for his little doggy girl who he beats all of the time.

You asked me some personal questions that I was somewhat reluctant to answer because you are so very very new at this.  If you just give yourself a month of participating and reading, you will be amazed at how fast you FSU IQ will advance.  Then the types of things that these experienced people are telling you will become very apparent. 

Ultimately, we are all here with a somewhat common desire:  to expand our knowledge and vicarious experience so that we will know how successfully to deal with an FSU lady or a WM (depending on your point of view).

Earlier in this thread I mentioned that there are many people here smarter than I.  And I am no dummy, by any means.  But they have more experience and to obtain their experience is free.  My posts:  100.  Their posts:  5000.  See what I mean? 

In another two months you'll be teasing some new guy on this site (and I am sure with great humor, but also with kindness) and thinking that two months ago that was me.

Good luck and stay for the ride.

-j 

[Sophocles]

Tämä nainen on ihan paska. Älä ole enää millään tavalla hänen kanssaan yhteyksissä. Don't have any further dealings with this woman. She has no interest in you whatsoever, and she will never have.

[Daveman]

Excellent response by Shadow.  DaveMan was alittle off his feed today, but  he's a thoughtful individual who I don't believe has a mean bone in his body (quoting Occam' Razor - Gimmee a break! )  except for his little doggy girl who he beats all of the time.

...

Why, thank you kind sir...     I thought the Occam's Razor section was kinda funny..  and thus the irony right off the bat:

I thought there was more clever and decent people here, that not have to take a semi-joke literally...

But what the hell... we can blame it on cultural differences and the language barrier... 

[jone]

Tämä nainen on ihan paska.

Please, tell us how you really feel!

[clancyhound]

 To the OP - you had a bad experience - it happens - in Business - in Life - in Love - you live, you learn and then move on to the next.
This is real life, you’re not going to make the world safe for justice, democracy and freedom, so to say.
Just move on and learn from your experiences, is the best anyone can do.
 

[noelscot]

Here's your problem. You did not learn the two most important words in the Russian language: NYET (No) and DASVIDANIYA (Goodbye).
 
Another problem is that a lot of this is like real estate. Location. Location. Location.
 
You were in the FSU, one of the most corrupt places in the world. These corrupt FSU people are not created out of thin air. It's cultural and deeply rooted.
 
My advice would be to stop feeding the beast. Take your tourism money to a place that is actually decent to visit, like the French Riviera or some place nice like that.
 
Get a classy ascot and nice suit, hit Monaco, and forget about all this nonsense.

[Bee Farmer]

Here in the US, it's common for women to go to bars with no money.  They let guys buy them drinks all night long.  No one thinks anything of it if the girl isn't interested in a relationship with the guy.

But if a FSUW meets a guy and goes out for dinner, if she isn't interested in a relationship with him, everyone screams bloody murder.  She is a scammer or pro-dater because she let him pay even though she had no interest in him.

So why the double standard?  It's ok for an American girl to accept a guy buying her a drink, but it's not ok for a FSU girl in the same situation?  How come no one is screaming about all those American bar girls who just let any guy buy them a drink, even when they are not interested in the guy?

[Chelseaboy]

Bee Farmer,
                   I've never been to the US,so i wasn't aware that girls over there make money out of guys through apartment hire and taxi fare scams when they go on dates.
 
 
 
           

[Shadow]

Bee Farmer,
                   I've never been to the US,so i wasn't aware that girls over there make money out of guys through apartment hire and taxi fare scams when they go on dates.
 
 
 
         

British girls would if the got the chance.

[Chelseaboy]

Maybe,but i doubt if many British guys would allow their wives and fiancees to date foreign guys for money,as they do in Ukraine.
 
Unless the men were pimps of course.

[Shadow]

Maybe,but i doubt if many British guys would allow their wives and fiancees to date foreign guys for money,as they do in Ukraine.
 
Unless the men were pimps of course.

I guess you lead a sheltered life.

[Chelseaboy]

Not at all.

Maybe Dutch,as well as Ukrainian, guys are happy to pimp their wives and fiancees out,but the Brits tend not to.
 
And this is coming from a man brought up and lived most of his life in the east-end of London.