Pro-dater?

[Patagonie]

"My last day there was different. We spent several hours together, walking, talking, etc.
And she bought me a meal (because I lost almost all my money the night before), and when I asked her, she also offered to lend me 20 euro to have for my trip back (but finally I said I would manage my trip anyway). Her hugs when we said goodbye to each others were really warm and honest."

May you tell us more about how you lost your money ?

Of course 90 euros is the first scam. So  you should have ditch her right the money. In this city  it costs maximum half this price.

You have many things to know and to study. You are full of wrong beliefs.
Guy it is simple : no intimacy + no time shared + (compared to the average ukrainian salary around 300 $) money for her = NEXT for you and HER = PRODATER.

When i first read your email i thaught : ok this guy have understood all and got the idea of whom is she. And after the train totally left the rails. I am not a psychologist, but why a lot of people who are abused (and they know it  ) continue to get sticked on the train wreck ???
This beyond my comprehension that you are still thinking about to see her again.
I learnt from life that it is always easier to find a better woman rather than to modify a bad one.

[calmissile]

"My last day there was different. We spent several hours together, walking, talking, etc.
And she bought me a meal (because I lost almost all my money the night before), and when I asked her, she also offered to lend me 20 euro to have for my trip back (but finally I said I would manage my trip anyway). Her hugs when we said goodbye to each others were really warm and honest."

May you tell us more about how you lost your money ?

Of course 90 euros is the first scam. So  you should have ditch her right the money. In this city  it costs maximum half this price.

You have many things to know and to study. You are full of wrong beliefs.
Guy it is simple : no intimacy + no time shared + (compared to the average ukrainian salary around 300 $) money for her = NEXT for you and HER = PRODATER.

When i first read your email i thaught : ok this guy have understood all and got the idea of whom is she. And after the train totally left the rails. I am not a psychologist, but why a lot of people who are abused (and they know it  ) continue to get sticked on the train wreck ???
This beyond my comprehension that you are still thinking about to see her again.
I learnt from life that it is always easier to find a better woman rather than to modify a bad one.

I have never heard a better quote.    LOL

[jone]

I learnt from life that it is always easier to find a better woman rather than to modify a bad one.

See, I told you we all learned the hard way.  Benjamin Franklin says that "Experience Keeps a Dear School, But FOOLS Will Learn At No Other."

I am just such a fool!  Patagonie is too.  Welcome to the club!

[dreamer_1965]

Yeah, go to the police and tell them you took this woman to expensive restaurants but she did not sleep with you. Would it work in Finland ?

Why you wrote this?
Did you really misunderstand what all is about, or you just enjoy trying to make fool of others?
Firstly, my intentions was never to get sex with her, it's much more cheaper ways to do that for those who want.
Secondly, I was talking about some way to prevent that this scam company continue to fool others. This wasn't the first time, and surely not the last time.
Of course I can't get any money back for dinners and that, but... if a pro-dater get money to buy a common travel, but then keep the money and there is no travel, isn't it a real crime then? 
Your post didn't helped much, I believe comments like yours only make it harder to follow the whole thread.

[ECOCKS]

Why you wrote this?
Did you really misunderstand what all is about, or you just enjoy trying to make fool of others?
Firstly, my intentions was never to get sex with her, it's much more cheaper ways to do that for those who want.
Secondly, I was talking about some way to prevent that this scam company continue to fool others. This wasn't the first time, and surely not the last time.
Of course I can't get any money back for dinners and that, but... if a pro-dater get money to buy a common travel, but then keep the money and there is no travel, isn't it a real crime then? 
Your post didn't helped much, I believe comments like yours only make it harder to follow the whole thread.

1. You were taken in by a Pro-Dater.


2. The Police don't care.


3. Get over this event, consider the lessons learned and move on in your search.


Sincerely, Good Luck.

[dreamer_1965]

1. You were taken in by a Pro-Dater.


2. The Police don't care.


3. Get over this event, consider the lessons learned and move on in your search.


Sincerely, Good Luck.

Yes, for my own sake it would be easiest to move on.
But, you mean that we shall act selfish and let companies like this continue to fool others? Not trying anything to make it harder for them? Not warning others about her, so other can find things about her if they do researches about her name, phone number, email address, photos or ID in the dating site.
Let's say that some other also had been her victim before, but got the advice to drop everything. If he instead had tried to warn others, I would have found it my early researches and could have avoid everything.

[Ranetka]

If she takes money for travel and does not and repeat with other men using different identities then the might be a criminal case. People were prosecuted in russia for that. However at the moment your suggestions about police are absurd . You wanted to meet the girl . You met her. She went to places with her she provided you with apartment taxi her company city tour. Your complaint is she was not interested in you while you were spending money on her. It is hurting and i feel for you but taking advantage this way is not a police matter . Please understand and next time try to find someone who is more into you. You spent this money because you wanted to be with her. So you paid when you should have been thinking first. Get over it. Good luck next time.

[GQBlues]

...But, you mean that we shall act selfish and let companies like this continue to fool others? Not trying anything to make it harder for them? Not warning others about her, so other can find things about her if they do researches about her name, phone number, email address, photos or ID in the dating site. Let's say that some other also had been her victim before, but got the advice to drop everything. If he instead had tried to warn others, I would have found it my early researches and could have avoid everything.

I really would have to reach fairly far out to even imagine anyone else to be as gullible as you based on your story here. If that is true, based on your silly reaction and thinking portrayed here, what makes you think *warning others as gullible as you* is ever going to do any good?

To even believe you have an advantage over this girl because you got her pegged all the while is even sillier. But, your time and dime....

[Gator]

Dreamer,

Punish her????   
 
There are many, many women in the FSU who have done what you experienced.  In fact, many, many men have been scammed for much more money than what you spent.   It is part of the FSU culture.   
 
You are not learning from this experience.  Here is what you did.    You behaved the same as buying an expensive new computer, placing the computer in the backseat of your car, parking your car on a small street in a questionable neighborhood, and leaving the car unlocked with the computer in full view.    You were stupid.   Repeat, you were stupid.   
 
For you to not accept the fact that you were stupid suggests that you have led a sheltered life.  You need to learn from this experience.  If you can not learn, then forget FSUW.   Has no one in Finland ever taken advantage of you?
 
One other point.  Most FSUW expect if not want to have sex with a man after a few dates if not sooner, and for sure they expect a man to make a "move."  If you are avoiding sex, many FSUW (even the decent women) will consider you a child.
 
Dreamer.  Read, read, read the RWD archives.  Then return with questions about how to find and pursue sincere women.     Fortunately, there are many more FSUW who do not behave as your Zaporozhe woman.   Focus on finding one of these  good women rather than trying to punish a bad woman. 
 
 

[Daveman]

...
I learnt from life that it is always easier to find a better woman rather than to modify a bad one.

Yes indeed... in fact, not one of my personal attempts at modification were ever successful... 

Yes, for my own sake it would be easiest to move on.
But, you mean that we shall act selfish and let companies like this continue to fool others? Not trying anything to make it harder for them? Not warning others about her, so other can find things about her if they do researches about her name, phone number, email address, photos or ID in the dating site.
Let's say that some other also had been her victim before, but got the advice to drop everything. If he instead had tried to warn others, I would have found it my early researches and could have avoid everything.

Posting specifics about the woman - name, etc., - really doesn't help much.  I understand that guys do tend to search for names (give a man a fish) rather than observe behavior in a specific lady.  You have warned others by pointing out such behavioral patterns (teach a man to fish). 


The problem is always the same... men *want* to believe, so *choose* to believe, often in the face of ridiculously overwhelming evidence which should shatter the dream.


Of course you now feel injured and believe she needs to pay for your injury her deeds.  Retribution and vengeance top the list at these moments (in the grand scheme this is nothing but a moment).  It's pretty much an exercise in futility as well as a major negative drain on yourself.  Much more productive for yourself to move forward onto a path leading to a sincere woman who truly wants to be with you.

[Daveman]

Yeah, go to the police and tell them you took this woman to expensive restaurants but she did not sleep with you. Would it work in Finland ?

or maybe...


"Police! go get him! He slept with me and then didn't call!!!"


 

[ECOCKS]

I'll pile on that you're either a "baiter" with an agenda or incredibly naive.


As someone else mentioned, warnings are everywhere on the net about this sort of practice and you didn't pay any attention because your ego and gullibility wouldn't let you even consider that you were being the fool. So, no, you would not have "avoid[ed] everything".


Really though, why don't you devote your life to tracking these nefarious women down, exposing them for the wicked beings they are and concentrate on saving huMANity from the perils of being....stupid.


I am sure they will put up a statue of you in some Siberian town and hail you as the patron saint of western singles......


Maybe Rowan Atkinson can play the part of you in the movie?




 

[Patagonie]

From Gator :
"One other point.  Most FSUW expect if not want to have sex with a man after a few dates if not sooner, and for sure they expect a man to make a "move."  If you are avoiding sex, many FSUW (even the decent women) will consider you a child."

That was one of my mistake as newbie : don't sort women i like by searching intimacy wanting to be "the serious guy only focusing on marriage".

The FSU demeanor is not a world for weaks, weaks are milked like you as soon that people are in position to abuse them. As soon as she can sell you a flat which cost probably maximum 35-40 euros for 90, and even if you bargain for 65 she is making a profit of 25-30. At this second, it is proven that she sees you only as wallet. End of the story. I have met such prodater, she got minimal money from me, few dozens of bucks no more. This type of women is beyond my human world, but they exist. The only worth they have is the mirror of the  you give them. But in their culture this is valuable, because it is one way among others  to earn some money. As soon i imagine that they see it only as an additional work. It is why i am each time so insistent on "do you what is an average earning in FSU".

Guy seriously i propose you (imagine that you make 4000 $ worth per month) to minimum double your monthly income by :
welcome a woman from Goldland, just welcome her at the airport (
  ), sight seing ( ), taxi for restaurant ( ), rent her an appartment ( ,  ),very good restaurant you can  never go (price 800$ for two, but people from Goldland can).
All this for few hours, no sex, no problem with police, just perhaps a little smack on the lips.
Just this and you make double earning, ONE TIME per month. Hey guy i have a bargain imagine that you do it every week you MULTIPLY your WAGE BY FOUR !!!! And very exciting guy, such women of Goldland are so, so .......find the accurate word yourself ...  that they sometimes come and give you expansive gifts.
You can potentially, with the gifts, if you know how to do it, perhaps multiply your income BY TEN.
He guy you don't know, but if additionnaly you are ready to have sex with this Goldland women, you know what ? In one year or two probably you can get one who will be ready to make some huge  investissement on you.  Think about. It is a very serious opportunity. Perhaps a flat or a car. Or you can get few months of wage just telling them your problems about you suffering from a crash, problem in the flat, problem of unemployement, or something like that.
You need to seriously think about, and you no what ? Perhaps you would stop to work soon ?

Does it remind you a story ?

OP : tell me us more about this money which disappeared.

[Ranetka]

Dreamer, you should understand a couple of things before you take any actions. 1 the only way you can potentially punish her right now without wasting more money is to publish her data on anti scam sites. Some sites might will have remove it if she complains as really the only thing she has done is she had not returned interest as you had hoped . if she had sex with you spent more time and said she loved you all would be good, correct? So your complaint is really she did not like you enough. Thats not a crime. 2 exposing her also will expose yourself . Girls search internet too. You can judge by reaction of men here, it does not show you in positive light. Plus you advertise yourself as a potential victim. Imaging a girl posting all over internet how men had been taking advantage of her. It would be doing her more harm than good and similar thing may happen to you too. Think before you do.

[Hammer2722]

dreamer, as many here have been trying to tell you, you need to just forget about this woman. Mark it down as your first FSUW learning experience. There are far too many good women out there for you to dwell on this one just to punish her. Do lots of reading here before beginning your search anew.

[jone]

You are not learning from this experience.  Here is what you did.    You behaved the same as buying an expensive new computer, placing the computer in the backseat of your car, parking your car on a small street in a questionable neighborhood, and leaving the car unlocked with the computer in full view. 

So that's what happened to my computer.  Do you really think someone took it?

[ML]

Such a difference in men (and women).  I  am thankful I am trained in finance; and no, I am not stingy or cheap, unless I want (need) to be.

My near calls with scammers:

Example 1) As we were walking through a metro station after first date; the gal said, buy me some roses.  We stopped in front of the babushka and I asked how much for one.  The gal said, I want 12.  I bought one (this was the extent of the scam), put her on the metro and never made contact again.

Example 2) After first  date, we stopped at shop to buy a small cake for dessert in my apt.  She asked if I had coffee.  I said I had only tea.  She started looking at the coffees and selected the most expensive imported brand which was about 10 times the price of the Folgers I spotted.  I put her selection back on shelf and picked up the Folgers.  Outside the shop, I told her I wasn't feeling too good, so we should end our date.  I never made contact with her again.  I ate the cake and drank the coffee.

These were on WMVM visits.  The  point is, you just stop the nonsense at the very beginning.

The gals I stay with for several dates are the ones who say:  This restaurant is too expensive; or the prices in this shop are too expensive; I can make these items for you myself, etc.    These are the ones I later spend a lot of money on with trips to exotic places, expensive restaurants, etc.

But early in the game . . . any hint of wanting (liking) spending money . . . goodbye.

I wouldn't even buy an expensive coffee; so I certainly wouldn't be paying double for apt, drivers, etc.

For a 21 year old guy . . . yes, a lot left to learn . . . but for any guy over age 30 . . . no excuses.  A particular pussy cannot be that great; especially since there are several more just around the corner.

[CDW]

Maybe this "prostitute without sex" woman  (I mean "Pro-Dater") will have sex with the policeman  so she will not get arrested 

[Ranetka]

ML makes (probably without realizing lol) a point which is a man or a woman actually should only do things which are comfortable . Do not spend if it is too much for you .

[Chelseaboy]

The men that leave themselves most open to prodaters/scammers are the ones chasing a girl much younger than them.
 
They don't think they may get another chance with a girl as hot as the one they're with now,who's hanging on his arm,smiling sweetly,hugging him warmly,and "seems" to actually like him.
She's the kind of girl who'd hardly give him a second look at home.
 
The man doesn't want to lose her,so he will capitulate and buy her gifts,give her money for those emergencies his little darling has in her life,while he's hanging onto the dream she'll become his wife.
 
The OP is 47,the girl is 31.
 
This is the danger of middle-aged men chasing young women in the FSU.
 
Doesn't mean it can't be done,but the risks are very high trying to find a good one among all the pro-daters/scammers out there.

[Daveman]

ML makes (probably without realizing lol) a point which is a man or a woman actually should only do things which are comfortable . Do not spend if it is too much for you .

That's the nut hidden by the nutshell -- full circle back to 'just be yourself'.




_{Of course, growth often comes from the occasional steps outside the comfort zone, but that's not the topic here.} 

[Daveman]

The men that leave themselves most open to prodaters/scammers are the ones chasing a girl much younger than them.

These are probably the most likely to rationalize... yes

They don't think they may get another chance with a girl as hot as the one they're with now,who's hanging on his arm,smiling sweetly,hugging him warmly,and "seems" to actually like him.
She's the kind of girl who'd hardly give him a second look at home.

Sometime yes.. sometimes not - as in the example of the OP.  She pretty much avoided him entirely until the last moments and then threw out just enough, at least in her mind, to keep him interested in the fantasy.

The man doesn't want to lose her,so he will capitulate and buy her gifts,give her money for those emergencies his little darling has in her life,while he's hanging onto the dream she'll become his wife.

He's actively playing the game, rolling the dice, attempting to win her with his wallet - if that method fails he often lashes out with "scammer".  And she may very well be or not.  The fact of that matter, is that this hypothetical man above is responsible for his choice of entering into and continuing to play that particular game.

The OP is 47,the girl is 31.
 
This is the danger of middle-aged men chasing young women in the FSU.
 
Doesn't mean it can't be done,but the risks are very high trying to find a good one among all the pro-daters/scammers out there.

Your post makes some valid points.  Personally, I'm a proponent of personal responsibility for choices.  Even if the women are the crap of the earth, the man chooses to disregard contrary evidence in pursuit of Santa Claus. 


I'm not convinced that there are so many scammers out there.  I think they just congregate en masse lending the perception of vast numbers whereas in reality there is a spectrum all the way from saints to sinners across the FSU landscape with most landing somewhere in the middle. 

[ML]

The man doesn't want to lose her,so he will capitulate and buy her gifts,give her money for those emergencies his little darling has in her life,while he's hanging onto the dream she'll become his wife.

Not me (capitulate).

I  think I was lucky and got an inoculation vaccine somewhere along the line.

There would probably be a good  business opportunity selling these vaccines.
And come to think of it; it seems similar to what we are trying to do here with our advice.

[ML]

. . . as really the only thing she has done is she had not returned interest as you had hoped.

Ranetka, you are a very intelligent woman and have powers of logic.

So why can you not be objective here, stick with the facts, and present a balanced view?

It is clear (we must for now go with the only version of  the story we know), that the woman did not just 'not returned interest as you had hoped.'

His story was full of info about inflated prices for almost everything on the trip, with the woman splitting this excess with someone.

And this man already said he did not seek sex; yet you seem to always throw the seeking sex angle into many posts in attempting to show the men in a bad light.

In this thread, and many others, the men freely attack and blame the men.

Why cannot the women here also freely attack and blame the women?

It is my strong feeling that the vast majority of men (and certainly the ones that post their stories  here) are not going to FSU to get only sex and are not intending to take advantage of the women or treat them badly.

But many of the women who post here seem to always imply the opposite.

Yes, I am aware that men in the close European countries can make quick trips to FSU for sex and there are certainly enough women that accommodate them (so I don't even know if this is a bad thing if consensual adults); but we do not have posters here who tell of doing such.

So why can't we start out with a presumption of good intentions on the part of the men who post here? 

Yes, naive and worse; but not bad intentioned.

[Ranetka]

ML, well mainly because he is stll happy to invite her to have a holiday with him! Read the original post again his concern is will she show up if he pays to the travel agency or not  ! He invites her so yeah if she accept the ticket and shows up then he will be alright and all good, right? Besides what is the point to talk about the woman? She is not the one reading forum and asking question . Would it be better if she did not show up for lunches at all, not arranged a city tour , just left him in his apartment ? I have to assume she did not like him but still acted like a host . Did she not? I do not even know was the meals that expensive ? People have different attitude to money. For example if my date picked up the cheapest coffee for me i would have been offended as its generally disgusting . But this attitude works for you so expensive clearly is relative. I am very direct and not materialistic at all thats why i am poor lol but i have been known to be extra nice to get a dinner out of my date. Just for fun of it. Dont spend if you Cant afford and do not spend if you do not enjoy!