Pro-dater?

[dreamer_1965]

I've met an Ukrainian woman, 31 years, in Russian.Cupid, and then visited her in September. I'm 47, from Finland and can't any Russian. She said she has no internet at home, that she use it from work instead.

When we planned my trip to her city, Zaporozhya, she wanted me to rent an apartment for 90 euro. Finally I got it for 65 euro, in cash to her without receipt. It was a small lousy apartment (Booking.com offered 32 e for a much better apartment).
She insisted to met me at the airport with a taxi, and we went to a restaurant. The cost of "taxi" (it was a regular car with no taximeter) was much more than it should be.

In our mailing before, she said she gonna take much free time from work, to be with me. But after the restaurant and I got my room, she went home, she was tired and had to sleep, she had to work much next day (even if that was a Saturday) but meeting me in the evening. She called in the morning, saying we could have lunch. After the lunch she had to go back, some contract have to be done with the customers. Later in the day she called to say that the contract took very long time, and that we would be meet each others next day.

Next day (Saturday) we met and we went to a cafe. She complained she had bad stomach, but drank coffee and a croissant and also smoked (in her profile she said she lived healthy and no smoking? Then she said she had to go home and rest, but we would be meeting later. Instead, she had offered a sight seeing to me. Her friend showed my the city by car, it took 2 hours and the friend wanted 30 euro for that, and the driver 35 e. In the evening
she called and said she was sick, and that a doctor come to her apartment.

The 3 next days was about the same, she had to work much (she said it was the most buzy season for her window company). We only met each others for few hours, for lunch, dinners, and she always had to go home early. Of course I paid for everything, taxi (which weren't real taxis), dinners, wine, etc... She also talked a lot in phone, she said it was from her work, her boss and so on.

My last day there was different. We spent several hours together, walking, talking, etc.
And she bought me a meal (because I lost almost all my money the night before), and when I asked her, she also offered to lend me 20 euro to have for my trip back (but finally I said I would manage my trip anyway). Her hugs when we said goodbye to each others were really warm and honest.

If it wasn't for the last day there, I would had said goodbye for ever. Too much "coincidences", and she had also been much more "lovely" in mails than in real.
I also was outside her apartment 2 times in a car, would a scammer do that? She has also been off-line in the dating site for several weeks, would a scammer do that? But she (or her scamming company) maybe know what suspicious persons are checking?

Then the mails after my visit...
We wanted to meet again and I asked if she wanted to visit me or if she was thinking of travel anywhere. She said it was all too difficult to get Visa to me, but she was glad that I wanted to travel abroad with her. I suggested Thailand, and that I would pay for everything except for her flights. She said she had no money, and that Ukrainian men always pay for everything. Then she suggested a travel from an Ukrainian travel agency. I wondered how to pay for that, and she said she had opened a account so I could transfer money. I cancelled the trip, said it became too expensive and so on...

Some mails afterwards she complained that she had a water leak in her apartment, and that she had to pay for the damages in her and the neighbours apartment. No request for me to send any money however...

After some more conversations I suggested a travel to Hurghada in Egypt and I would pay for everything. She complained that her flight wasn't convenient, that she had to be one night in Kiev first. So she suggested another travel, from Dnipropetrovsk (near her city). An expensive travel, and also seemed to be booked only at her travel agency...
I said that I'm not the one that transfer money without security. And the mail afterwards she said she has been burned by boiled water, wouldn't be able to walk in a month. She also wanted back the money for the meal she bought me, she didn't like to do that but needed money for her rehabilitation.
I mailed I felt pity for her and that I would transfer money, but complained to do that via Western union because the fee would be almost as much as the meal was worth. I asked for the account she said she had opened earlier.
Then she didn't reply back so I went back to the dating site and saw she was online 2 days after my last mail. I thought she had gave up (because I had let her know that I wondered about a lot of strange things), knowing I wouldn't transfer a lot of money.
So I wrote another mail some days after, saying I had been stupid to mistrust and that I can't be too careful all my life. I asked her about the Thailand trip she suggested before, if it still was open and how we could go further with it.
That made her awake again, she was already working, even if she couldn't wear tight pants and that. And she asked me to tell which dates are best for me to travel, then she could look for travels...

Now I have to decide... Shall I continue the play? Can it be a little chance that she only had really bad luck? Shall I make it a nightmare to her? Shall I drop everything and go further to take care of the rest in my life? Have somebody else had about same experiences? Somebody who knows life in Ukraine very well?

If you want, or need, I can tell her name and nickname, her 2 email adresses, and also her profile in the dating site (it would be interesting if somebody of you contact her there). I can also post copies from our mails here if it can be to any use.


I can tell some more "coincidences":

In the early beginning I was about to visit her in August when she had vacation, but didn't her from her in 2 weeks, and I haven't got any explanation why. I contacted her again, and got a mail that seemed to be written by a drunken person. She also liked to drink beer in daytime when I was there, even if she then went back to work.
The day she said she had bad stomach was a Sunday, day after she had to work late. She also weared sunglasses all time that day.

I called her by phone after my visit. It was Saturday evening, she seemed to be more anxious to explain the background noises than happy to talk with me. She said it was her family, and she ended the call rather soon.

One time I got a mail from her after midnight (we have same time zones), even if she said she got no internet and always use it from work. And even if she said she was very buzy at work that time as the time I was there. But when I was there she always had to go to sleep early, to be able to work...

In one mail she wrote her real name instead of her nickname that she otherwise always have used.

I'm very thankful for every advice I could get!

[Chicagoguy]

What do you need from us? Just reread your letter. The answer is there.

[Larry1]

I noticed this was your first post.  Welcome to the forum.

Take a little time and read some trip reports.  You will see how a genuine FSUW acts when she is interested in a guy.  You will notice this girl showed pretty much the complete opposite behavior.  For one thing, when a guy is visiting a girl who has genuine interest in him, she will make A LOT more effort to see him.  I could go on at great length about her behavior, but I'm sure others will do so.

I suggest that you find another girl.

[Hammer2722]

Hi Dreamer, Just from the amount of information you have posted tells me that this is nothing more than a pro-dater. I suggest you go back and re-read all that you have written then ask yourself if this is how a woman looking for a real relationship would act. I'm sure you'll have your answer then. RUN,RUN RUN!!!! 

[Daveman]

How old is she?


I have to say, it doesn't sound too good for you.. at best she isn't very interested in you as a future partner - but leaving the door open in case she finds no one better.. at worst (and most probably IMO), she's looking for free trips at your expense.


30E to her "friend" PLUS 35E for driver to take you sightseeing for a few hours?  that's a new one..


Overly expensive apartment paid in cash to her... Water damage to neighbor's flat... burned legs by evil boiling water... feeling sick/working -- always finding an excuse to get away from you.. but on the LAST day, warms up to keep you on the hook...


Like I said - this doesn't look very good for you... and I think your internal voice is telling you exactly that..  normally there's not so much bizarreness in dating a sincere woman who is into you.. 




But, yes, you are expected to pay for all expenses for travel and dating and either not doing so or complaining about it would be a no-no.  Decide yes or no and say it - but don't talk about money in such a way.

[ML]

You have been had big time.

I presume you are not mentally retarded . . . so why are you even THINKING about continuing ANYTHING with this woman??

[cc3]

First of all, welcome to the RWD forum . But, Dreamer, you are either the most gullible, scam -worthy western man in the history of FSU woman pursuit, or you are just trying to spoof the whole forum. 

If you cannot discern this woman's many levels of duplicity, you should not be mis-adventuring in the FSU. It is too dangerous for one who is so inexperienced and naive.

On another note I was married to a Finn; she and I didn't last long, just long enough to have two Finnish-American kids. I admire your country and people...what's wrong with a nice cultured, educated slender Finnish woman to say "Mina rakastan sinua" to?

[CDW]

In our mailing before, she said she gonna take much free time from work, to be with me. But after the restaurant and I got my room, she went home, she was tired and had to sleep, she had to work much next day

You flew all the way from Finland, and she doesn't care about you.  You should say "goodbye" to her from that moment.   She is only thinking of herself.   If she is genuinely interests in you, she wouldn't have gone home to sleep regardless about her next day's activity.

The rest........... more "goodbye"  - the only problem is that you do not run as fast as Usain Bolt! 

My advice, like the others say, FORGET ABOUT HER.   She doesn't deserve to have FREE vacation with you after what happened.  If she is genuinely interests in you, she should visit you in Finland - not in Thailand or Eqypt!!!  Obviously she has NO plans to be serious with you.   She is a "prostitute without sex" woman

[Marian]

Hard to belive a mature men with 47 is asking such a Question.I´m a completely newbie in this whole online Dating Stuff.And even I know that such a Women acting this way cant be serious in hundred years.
But maybe I can write those Words because I didnt make such bad expierence with such a women.
And I hope I will will never make it!
Thats why I´m here reading one Thread after another,learning from the mistakes of others.Maybe it´s not o.k to call it mistakes because we all hope to fine love.It´s nothing new that a men loses his head when he loves a girl.

[viking]

Short answer. YES. Longer answer, is yes she is a pro-dater. You been taken. 

Please just do not even answer any more emails or phone calls or anything. Just move on and try to forget her. You have spent Waaaay too much on this woman.  I cannot begin to tell you the stories I have heard about mom is sick, she is sick, the car broke,the heater broke, there was a flood and the list just goes on. Most guys would have said PAKA ( goodby) day one. Please heed this advice and let this be a lesson for you.

[Chelseaboy]

Hello dreamer,
                       Sorry, but you've been wasting time,emotion and money on a prodater.
 
Leaving you alone every evening(romance time),after  extracting meals out of you during the day,is typical prodater behaviour.
 
Concerning her financial problems ,scammers often don't tend to ask directly for money,because they know that's a big red flag to their potential victims.
Instead,they will give you a sob story,relying on your good-nature to offer to help them out financially,
If you offer,then they strike 
 
Don't even think about taking her on holiday anymore.
 
 

[Larry1]

Dreamer, you are either the most gullible, scam -worthy western man in the history of FSU woman pursuit, or you are just trying to spoof the whole forum. 

The latter possibility occurred to me as well.  The fact pattern was just too spot-on, in every detail.  If it was a spoof, kudos for the author's imagination.  The burned by hot water incident was particularly good. I've never heard of that one. 

But I think this story is not a spoof and Dreamer_1965 is relating an accurate story, mostly because I don't think I've encountered anyone on the forums who can put together quite this good a spoof.

[Jack]

Hello and welcome dreamer.

Provided your post is real you'll have to chalk this up to getting a little experience.

Not to offend you but your post is one of a very gulliable man.  Again, provided your post
is real it is a to common post of men who do write one, visit one.  All your egg's in one basket
and you got a bad egg.

Zaporozhye is a very good city for finding beautiful women wanting a change in their life, women
wanting a better life.  In some way's Zaporozhye reminds me of Moscow 1994-98.

dreamer sit back, take your time. Spend a few weeks reading, reading, reading of many things writtten
on this site.  Now some things you will read that individuals have written are not true, flat out lie's. But you
should be able to figure out what is real, who is real, by just reading, reading, reading.

You really should hold off on writing any new ladies until you can get more educated to the process.

[jone]

Not only is she a Pro-Dater, she is a very BAD pro-dater in that she is not even subtle.  Most pro-daters will suck you in, work you for awhile and then go in for the kill.  This one was sooo stupid that she tried to rip you right from the start.

A good pro-dater will slowly elicit money from you over a period of time, all with the illusion of moving forward.  They are very bright and know how to work a 'mark'.  Subtle hints about birthdays, the best places to go (that use their services) and different types of things, all which allow you to spend your money.

You now have the perfect excuse to communicate with honest women and verify them up front. 

"I really like you, but I was absolutely humiliated by a Pro-Dater that I am reluctant to move forward without some assurances that you are really sincere. . . . . ."  You can fill in the blanks. 

[JohnDearGreen]

1965:  Your first mistake was letting her handle your travel arrangements.  Now, on your talks about 2nd trip, you appear to be making the same mistake again.  Your 2nd mistake appears to be not being able to recognize if this lady has any real interest in you. 


What did you do the other 22 hours each day?  You could have found an agency or met some other ladies from free internet, and probably would have found one more interested in you.  A rough rule of thumb is A+B=100%: If you can only generate a 10% level of attraction between the two of you, then there is a 90% possibility that she might use you for some other alternative motive.  So what % would you guess her interest level is in you?


Decide in advance how much you want to spend on the lady.  If she tries to persuade you to spend more on dinner, tell her you have a bad stomach tonite and would rather just have coffee and something light.

[TheTraveler]

 
and she didn't even have the gd common courtesy to give you a reach-around...
 

 

[Gator]

Dreamer 
 
Do what Jack suggested in his post.  We can help you find a sincere FSUW.
 
 
If you were more educated, you would have dropped this Zaporozhye woman before ever making a trip.   One mistake you can now make is to become paranoid about all FSU women.  Such an attitude would push away the decent women.   FSUW are a lot of fun.  So have fun, and maybe you will meet your ideal woman.

[GQBlues]

Man! Did you at least get some tongue action and copped a feel with this woman?
 
If you really need to ask for an opinion about your situation then, Houston, we have a problem...!

[jone]

Hey,

Don't feel bad.  We've all been there.  My first experience with a Pro-Dater threw me for a loop.  I thought for sure she was into me.  She twisted me around her little finger, showing me things that were meant to bring me along - never yielding what I truly needed from her.  All of the time I was spending more money.

I must have had 'sucker' written on my forehead.

And the contributors on the forum LOOOOOOVVVVVVVEEEEEE to talk about how a woman has done you wrong.

On this forum is enough expertise to walk you through the basics of figuring out who a scammer is and who is not.   Many of them have much more experience than I do - and for all of the wrong reasons!  HA!  But some of them are just smarter than the both of us put together.   I just haven't figured out who, yet.

Good luck and stay tuned in.  And get off of that godawful dating site.  (Who cares who's online?!)

[Belvis]

She also wanted back the money for the meal she bought me, she didn't like to do that but needed money for her rehabilitation.

Sounds like a fake story, even in context about scammers.

[dreamer_1965]

Thanks everybody for your answers!

Yes, I got suspicious just before my visit (because of the price of the flat) but the the travel was already booked.
Then my suspicions grown after more "coincidences", but my costs there was very small compared the price of the travel (and the flat). The big (expensive) mistake was already done, and I was not sure, so I'll tried to continue to do the best of my travel. The talk about a new trip is not very serious from me, just wanted to be more sure if she was a scammer or not. And her last mail proved a lot...

I don't want to drop this, even if maybe would be the best for me. As I see it now, it's she, not me, that's on the hook. She don't know that I know she is a scammer, I can fool her, but she can't fool me.
But I don't know how to go further? Could I somehow make her (her company) to do some mistakes that they could get arrested? What do Ukrainian government think about this kind of scamming? And their police, are they bribed to stay away?
Or other things to make it as hard as possible for them?

Shall I tell her name, nickname, phone number, the 2 mail addresses, her photos, her ID in the dating site, in public here, or maybe other sites too? Because I searched a lot about her before, but didn't find anything. I don't want that others will do same mistake as I have done.

[Belvis]

But I don't know how to go further? Could I somehow make her (her company) to do some mistakes that they could get arrested? What do Ukrainian government think about this kind of scamming? And their police, are they bribed to stay away?
Or other things to make it as hard as possible for them?

Yeah, go with her in Hurgada, and then sell her in slavery there. It will cover part of your expenses.

[dreamer_1965]

Yeah, go with her in Hurgada, and then sell her in slavery there. It will cover part of your expenses.

Hahaha, I really like your idea!  Yes, maybe I'll try to do something like that...   

[dreamer_1965]

I did forgot to tell about one thing.

When I searched about her, I found her in facebook and also in a common Russian site.
That made me believe she was no scammer. I guess some of her friends in these sites also are in the scamming company? Could her name there really be her real name? Is she just foolish, or do these prodaters do that to convince their victims even more?

[Ranetka]

Yeah, go to the police and tell them you took this woman to expensive restaurants but she did not sleep with you. Would it work in Finland ?