First timer headed to Ukraine

[I/O]

- Where is a woman's G-point?
- at the end of the word "shopping"

Yep, and RW's certainly get off big time if they catch a discount.

[lonedrake]

 Anechka,

 I am sure I will reget this post....but I just got done with a wonderful date....and I am very emotional right now. You don't have a god damn clue what it is like to be in my position and its complete bs that you are accusing me of treating these women as purchases.

 For your information..the first woman ENDED it with me after one day!

 The second woman ended it with me after 2 hours!

 WTF are they out? Nothing? How much did they risk? One day and the other 2 hours. Sure I may have made some mistakes but I treated both of them with respect before during and after. WTf am I doing that is such a god damn crime.......Not blathering up and down how wonderful they are and proclaiming my love for them when I barely know them?

 But you know what....I met a third woman. She works six days a week for shitty pay and what does she do. She goes straight from work and buys me an expensive pair of long underwear and a really nice scarf. At the end of our date she can barely stay awake.....but she still wants to stay a little longer to be with me.  So I look into her eyes and and tell her that she is the only one I want to see the rest of my stay so we can try and build a bond that will survive our separation when I leave. She looked so happy and excited it made me cry. And guess what I have been crying ever since and still am as I am typing this.


 Note I posted this last night but it never went through. More replies had been post so it never went through. It is now morning but I still feel the same way. Sorry about the language

 

[Anechka]

Technically that is not correct.  I certainly don't think St. Pete is too expensive.  I love going there and staying for a week or two.  And I was the one who commented on the disparity between Russia and Ukraine.  But to an average guy who is making the evaluation of where he wants to go to spend money, if the cost of entry is 1/2 or 1/3 one place to another, most will chose the cheapest option.

Well, it got expensive in the last few years after Matvienko became its Mayor. I can feel the difference, I come there quite often. Just checked the list of the most expensive cities, it's on 28th place... http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-worlds-50-most-expensive-cities-20120612-207lr.html

[Daveman]

Good lord lonedrake, chill and relax a bit.  No need to go ballistic.  Anechka is quite mild compared to what you'll see from time to time if you do happen to marry one..     


I would suggest perhaps rewriting the post before the time limit expires.  You'll probably be glad you did...


Sounds like Eva is a bit of chemistry.  Looking forward to hearing more about her.

[Anechka]

Good lord lonedrake, chill and relax a bit.  No need to go ballistic.  Anechka is quite mild compared to what you'll see from time to time if you do happen to marry one..     

Lmao... I'll reply to lonedrake post in the morning, tired now, goodnight

[jone]

LD,

You are on an emotional roller coaster right now.  And I am very happy that your trip has resulted in a wonderful possibility.

Anechka is just beginning to understand what you and I already know -- that it is a mind boggling thing, getting on a plane, going to a different country and meeting a woman who, if you are lucky, knows some English.  Against all odds you are hoping to forge a relationship and you aren't sure that you are doing things correctly.

I remember my first trip to Russia.  I was intimidated but also totally enthusiastic - and I was going for business - not even to meet someone.  I was certainly out of my comfort zone.  To each of the women coming to the West, I would say the same thing, you will be absolutely overwhelmed unless you have a great knowledge of the English language.

But as time goes on, you will discover something that DaveMan just alluded to.  It is wonderful to have backup from a woman's perspective.  We can't go nuclear on a woman that doesn't understand where we are coming from.  We men just don't understand some things.  And while the communication isn't always a freeway, you need to trade information back and forth.

Take some time, but edit your post.  And have a couple of extra eggs for me.  We're having tea and bananas again for breakfast.  A good Wisconsin boy like me could use a big meal.  Ukraine faire just doesn't always agree with me.

[lonedrake]

 Hey it morning here and I just wanted to say that I have not read any posts since midnight here and I will not be reading anymore till after another date will Eva tonight. My gut instinct tells me I do not want to get caught up in anything today

 I'll just say I look forward to seeing Eva again tonight and plan to learn as much about her as I can.

 Fire away!!! I will be back tomorrow with another report

[Brillynt]

Another thing I noticed today that I had not picked on up before is the checkout lady always ask if you want a bag...as they charge for the bags. I had thought she was just saying "hi". No wonder they would look at me funny when I would just reply "Hello"

And I did not respond fast enough one time, so the cashier charged me for a bag as I am saying nyet, nyet.  The look she gave me, well lets just say I know what she was thinking about americanski.    And to make it worse the manager had to come and void the sale to remove the bag.   

[CanadaMan]

 Another thing I noticed today that I had not picked on up before is the checkout lady always ask if you want a bag...as they charge for the bags. I had thought she was just saying "hi". No wonder they would look at me funny when I would just reply "Hello"

What's the difference between a North American cashier and a FSU cashier?

In North America they say  "Hello! How are you?"
In the FSU they say "Packet?"   

[Belvis]

So I look into her eyes and and tell her that she is the only one I want to see the rest of my stay so we can try and build a bond that will survive our separation when I leave. She looked so happy and excited it made me cry.

That's the thing I loved so much in dating process. Emotional extrems. A one get feeling and taste of life. Good luck!

[Patagonie]

What's the difference between a North American cashier and a FSU cashier?

In North America they say  "Hello! How are you?"
In the FSU they say "Packet?"   

So true

[Shadow]

Seriously about sandwich? You know, women are like men, they eat... I dated once a guy who had problems understanding that a girl can be hungry, lost 12 pounds in 3 months and then dumped him, no need to waste my time with a looser, he knew I was a full time student, I was studying at a different place to get another profession at the same time and I was working part time, so my choice was to get a nice dinner or to go for a date, every time I went for a date, I had to spell it out that I was hungry... Well, it was annoying... It doesn't mean I was a gold digger....

 You made me laugh about punctuality comment 

I am serious about the trip reports I read over the years. Some men treat a trip like they are looking for a vacancy in their business.
As you may have noticed Lonedrake is a bit different.

[Danchik]

But to an average guy who is making the evaluation of where he wants to go to spend money, if the cost of entry is 1/2 or 1/3 one place to another, most will chose the cheapest option.

IMO, really the wrong way to go about things. Might explain the success rate and patrons . What's that saying, oh yeah, you get what you pay for.

[Shadow]

IMO, really the wrong way to go about things. Might explain the success rate and patrons . What's that saying, oh yeah, you get what you pay for.

The saying is pay peanuts, get monkeys, pay bananas, get more monkeys.

[Gator]

Anechka,

I really appreciate your joining RWD and participating in our discussions.  A woman's perspective is always welcome, particularly given that we have too few women who participate.  Far more important is the fact that you are intelligent.    So I hope you stay around.
 
Regarding your comment about LoneDrake's approach for meeting women, he is following a WMVM (write many, visit many) plan.  Compared to many men who undertake the WMVM plan, Lonedrake shows considerable care about the women and their feelings, and his manners seem to be those of a gentleman.   
 
Please believe that many men doing the WMVM will schedule meetings with multiple different women during the same day, giving each an hour "interview."  Who knows what prompts such men to ask a woman for a followup meeting.  Such a WMVM  approach is indeeed akin to shopping for shoes as you implied.   
 
In contrast, Lonedrake seems to be  staying with one woman (not meeting other women), focusing on just her and seeing how the relationship progresses.  He terminates it  when he feels the relationship can not be advanced further.  I. e., he is looking for "chemistry."  I consider this a serious approach.
 
My impression is that many RW follow the same serious approach when dating, staying with one man, treating him seriously, and stopping only when it is clear that the relationship has no future.  The difference is that AM must compress the approach with RW in a relatively short amount of time, during a trip.   Hopefully Lonedrake will meet a special woman who will compel him to return to Ukraine and meet her again and again.
 
BTW, there have been many spirited discussions at RWD about the limitations and benefits of WOVO vs. WMVM.  The men seem equally divided as to which is best.  Personality is an important determinant.
 
 

[Lily]

What's the difference between a North American cashier and a FSU cashier?

In North America they say  "Hello! How are you?"
In the FSU they say "Packet?"   

In Toronto, the cashiers smile and ask me 'would you like a bag'?

[Larry1]

But you know what....I met a third woman. She works six days a week for shitty pay and what does she do. She goes straight from work and buys me an expensive pair of long underwear and a really nice scarf. At the end of our date she can barely stay awake.....but she still wants to stay a little longer to be with me.  So I look into her eyes and and tell her that she is the only one I want to see the rest of my stay so we can try and build a bond that will survive our separation when I leave. 

I'm happy to hear this, Lonedrake.  When people ask me why I look for a FSUW I can never satisfactorily explain why.  The only people who really understand are guys who have experienced something like this.

I've always been a "visit-one" guy (sort of like WOVO), but I completely agree with Gator's reply just above.

[mendeleyev]

 Enjoyable thread so far, LD. As so many have said, relax and enjoy the process. I agree wholeheartedly with I/O about the "whether she is into you" theories that some tout. Even if a gal climbed all over you and rocked your bones for the next 150 hours you really won't know till you're back in MN whether or not it was just a nice visit or a life beginning journey. To your credit I don't sense that is what you are all about anyway.

Although you've made a positive connection with another lady, there are some lessons for other men who have not yet traveled:
 

First mini read flag. Profile says no children. 2nd e-mail she says she has daughter. I ask her about it and she does change profile. Mistakes happen...but how many people forget they have children?

 As FP mentioned, unlikely that with her English that she was the one doing the profile. Imagine if it had been in Russian. Would you have recognized дочь (daughter) or дети (children)? It is good to give as much grace as we expect to be given when in unfamiliar territory.
 
 
 

2nd mini red flag. 2-3 hours late on first meeting. No big deal.

 Welcome to the FSU. Imagine that as a regular feature of business meetings--it is. I do appreciate those who are punctual and want to do business with them more often.
 
 
 

We go to market. I do not understand about banks(my fault) so I have her exchange 100 to grivnas. We shop and pick out supplies for apartment. I have her pay...and the wine could not be purchased in that line. I carry both bags and she holds money. Later that night I ask about change(it was about 400grivnas) so she gives me receipt. So I have to go to laptop and say I go to market in morning. Oh..she says and gives me the money but she takes 25 for taxi. No big deal I give her an extra 25. Even though it was a small amount of money it just stuck me as odd that she would help herself.
 
 Earlier that day I told her I was still going to buy her birthday present. I believe this was the kiss of death. She said "No problem. Later this week"

 Bad form in that culture to mention a personal holiday until it has arrived. I'd expect her response as normal.
 
 IMO, she was acting as your guardian and given your language differences I'd not be alarmed about the 25H. You were still getting to know each other and from what I've read it didn't sound as if she's pulled you into mega expensive restaurants, asked you to hire her cousin as a pricey driver, etc.
 
 

Anyways we were walking around center square and she was showing me around and we end up in the mall. She said she needed to buy spring jacket. So we looked at and tried on white jackets wherever she could find one. She caught me off guard when she said "Buy this one" So I said" Tomorrow"
 
 I knew that I had screwed up.

 You began the trip with the idea of telling her that you'd buy a gift when there and you'd allow her to pick it out since you yourself don't like others buying gifts for you blindly. So, she takes you up on your offer and gets rebuffed. However, that is redeemable so move forward. You have a great attitude about learning from mistakes. +1
 

The salad kind of threw me off as there was no lettuce. Lena says lettuce at this time of year is impossible to get.

I share a lot of the cooking in our home and have learned salads from mother-in-law and Russian cookbooks and in a book with 100 salads you'll be lucky to find lettuce in more than 10 or so. The FSU generally has a shorter summer cycle but unlike in MN, farm distribution systems resemble the 1960s in many cases so things are much more seasonal, lettuce being a prime example.


Most FSU ladies carry "packets" with them as it is standard practice for stores to charge for plastic bags. Even small street kiosks charge and they come to 1 or 2 cents usually so for the manager to remove that charge was a politeness shown to a foreigner on his part. Were I to open my MIL's purse I'd come across 2-3 wadded up plastic bags just in case she were to run across an item to purchase and bring home.

One of the most popular gift items we bring to Russia are those cloth or canvas sturdy shopping bags sold at most USA grocery markets. If there is English lettering on the sides it make the bag more "trendy" in the eyes of others as a sort of fashion or status statement. Plus they're very convenient and easier to carry than thin plastic bags. At only a buck or so apiece they're one of the most economical yet popular gifts one could take.

[CanadaMan]

In Toronto, the cashiers smile and ask me 'would you like a bag'?

Yes yes, of course!
They ask for bags here too, but most of the time they first say hello and ask "How are you?".

Cashiers in the FSU have said hello to me on occasion (but never asked me "How are you?").

But they have often asked me "Discount card?" 

[Anechka]

2nd mini red flag. 2-3 hours late on first meeting. No big deal.

What is it all about punctuality? 15-30 minutes is quite acceptable delay, at least I always thought so... What red flag could it be?

[Brillynt]

What is it all about punctuality? 15-30 minutes is quite acceptable delay, at least I always thought so... What red flag could it be?

It means you have no respect for the other persons time by making them wait. The original poster stated a 3 hour delay which is not acceptable. But like most women, you don't seem to mind wasting a man's time I can see.

[Brillynt]

LD,

I am glad to see that things are going better for you. I hope everything is what you are looking for. Enjoy your time with the new lady. 

[calmissile]

Thanks for the tip on the shopping bags Mendy.   Great idea.

One of the most popular gift items we bring to Russia are those cloth or canvas sturdy shopping bags sold at most USA grocery markets. If there is English lettering on the sides it make the bag more "trendy" in the eyes of others as a sort of fashion or status statement. Plus they're very convenient and easier to carry than thin plastic bags. At only a buck or so apiece they're one of the most economical yet popular gifts one could take.« Last Edit: Today at 12:51:21 PM by mendeleyev »

[GQBlues]

....Regarding your comment about LoneDrake's approach for meeting women, he is following a WMVM (write many, visit many) plan....

Hhhmmm..He wanted to do a WMVM but decided against it and instead ultimately went WOVO and bombed out.

So he went and unleash the proverbial back-up plans   

.... I had originally planned on going to Lugansk and meeting 3-4 women. Now I have veered off the "tried and true" coarse by just meeting one woman. I do have back up plans however....

 

...Compared to many men who undertake the WMVM plan, Lonedrake shows considerable care about the women and their feelings, and his manners seem to be those of a gentleman.....

Maybe he'll be a real 'gentleman' and actually admit to the new gals they're just his *back-up* plans?

Nahhhh! That'll go against the advice committee's advice #69 - if she doesn't ask, don't tell....

[lonedrake]

     I' ll keep this report short. Its going good. 

 GQ. I did tell them that I came over to meet a woman and it did not work out. Thats about the first thing they ask anyways.Plus....they all know about and suspect you are doing WMVM anyways. Does not appear to be any secret from the women I have talked to.

 Thats partly why I did a meet one WMVO trip. I always feel better when I can be honest. Plus with honesty there is a lot less to remember.