Beaten in Odessa

[Faux Pas]

Et tu, Brute?  I join the club of Irina's husbands. I would not dare to call somebody's else wife as Irka, must be some level of relationship for that. 
One may get impression that Irina is the most popular FSUW name. Actually it was very popular during 15 or so years, and somehow the top female name at the board (almost half of active FSUW members here).

I don't mind. I'm still not well versed at all on who is permitted to use shorter versions or why. It seems every FSUW my wife meets in the U.S. is named Irina. There are 4 other Irina's that are her friends here and another 4 or 5 of her friends in Russia. We have blond Ira, Ira from Dillards, picture Ira, a few more  and a number of Ira's that are just "Ira" 

[Daveman]

I don't mind. I'm still not well versed at all on who is permitted to use shorter versions or why. It seems every FSUW my wife meets in the U.S. is named Irina. There are 4 other Irina's that are her friends here and another 4 or 5 of her friends in Russia. We have blond Ira, Ira from Dillards, picture Ira, a few more  and a number of Ira's that are just "Ira"

Damn, that must be Iratating! 

[Faux Pas]

Damn, that must be Iratating! 

Only for me because they always know who they are talking about

[Gator]

Vaiano,
 
Thank you for bringing us up to date.  The victim will have head trauma symptoms (memory loss, dizziness, etc.) for a long time.
 
You did exactly what I would have done.  You don't have the authority for vigilante justice, nor is fighting violence with violence the best choice.  I commend you for the effort you have given to an AM, even though he was not using your services.  Indeed you are a Good Samaritan, virtually the same situation as the parable in the Bible.

[Gator]

I am acquainted with the owner of a large and substantial business in Odessa.  This person assures me that petty street crimes involving violence are almost no existent in Odessa.  This person says real crimes are perpetrated at much higher levels, with less violence and for far more money.

This incident would not be considered a professional type of event but one done by hamfisted amateurs that the police would be eager to lock up.  Cooperate with the police and yes it might take a payment to them to get the best results.  The police are on an unofficial "user fee" system due to their low salaries.

Since these actors are amateurs, they are not going to be able to buy their way out...if they had that kind of money they wouldn't be involved in this kind of low level crime.

 
Correct deduction.  The crime is similar to those committed in America by young street hooligans, looking for money to buy drugs.

[Shadow]

Correct deduction.  The crime is similar to those committed in America by young street hooligans, looking for money to buy drugs.

While it is my initial idea as well, the connection with a dating profile is what brings uncertainty. In this case there was a lot of personal damage, but if this would be a regular happening they could actially make reasonable money of it.
Remember that $900 still goes some way towards survival in Ukraine.

[BillyB]

Remember that $900 still goes some way towards survival in Ukraine.

They took other goodies too. Some guys go to the internet with thousands of dollars in cash. I'm sure after the guy paid $300+ for dinner, he showed himself to have some disposable money. I wondered if he opened his wallet and flashed too much cash in front of the lady?
 

if this would be a regular happening they could actially make reasonable money of it.

They were successful so far. Very few criminals retire after 1 successful crime. Even if the victim forgives the perpetrators, although he didn't volunteer for this, he has a duty to prevent this from happening to other people. Trusting the cops and judges in Ukraine to do their job is naive. If he wants to do it that way, he'll have to cough up some motivational money. After the cost of his trip, expensive dinner dates, robbery, maybe some medical bills,  cost of changing his airfare, cost of extended stay in Ukraine, cost of hiring people to help him, bribing the cops to do their job, and cost of mother purchasing last minute airfare and the cost of her stay, and future medical bills, I bet the final bill is going to be a minimum $15,000 easy and his health may never be the same.
 
I hope vaiano777 keeps up posted for the rest of the story whether the perpetrators are caught and brought to justice or walk free.

[BillyB]

I have heard of two different guys getting beat up in Odessa, and then the police take the beaten guy to the police station and try to charge him with a crime..

What's the difference between cops and criminals there? The uniforms they wear? I don't see much difference there between paying cops or criminals to get justice except the criminals may do a better job and are more motivated to do a better job for you.
 
No matter how wrong it may seem to western people, the life there is different and one has to adjust to that life to right a wrong. One can argue paying someone other than the cops to get justice is wrong but in my opinion, paying cops to do their job is more wrong. Bribing cops creates a system where the ones that can afford get results and rest suffers more and it will never end until the bribing as a way of life ends.
 
Bribing cops is an option but one shouldn't think they are taking the high road to get justice. Anyway you look at it, one has to take what most of us consider a corrupt action to get good results. What may seem black and white to some is grey to me. Whatever action the victim takes becomes less corrupt in the name for the greater good. The bible was mentioned in this thread. Even God sent out armies and a big flood to take care of bad people.
 
Besides what I read here, my experience with cops was not pleasant.
 
Security in Moscow airport screwed me over, delayed me, I paid a bribe to get things going fast and still missed my plane to Novosibirsk and had to purchase another ticket and slept on a bench at the airport.
 
On the domestic flights side of SVO airport in Moscow, I seen a cop approach a guy in a seat waiting to board his flight. I don't know what was said but the guy didn't cause any disturbances previously before the conversation and the cop started to pound the guy with his baton and dragged him out. It looked ugly and not right but on the bright side, it was probably handeled better than it would in Stalin's Russia.
 
A taxi I was in was pulled over. The taxi driver told me to stay in the car and don't talk. After he paid the cop a bribe to get out of a ticket, he told me if he knew I had an American passport, we may have had to pay more money.
 
I've seen out a window from my apartment cops pulling over one car after another at an intersection. Driver gets out and gives cop a handshake, driver turns around and get back in car and drives off. The handshake was to disguise a money transfer. Maybe I'm wrong and everybody is just being courteous to cops that day?
 
My ex fiancee's brother in Uzbekistan worked for what we call "internal affairs". He was a cop's cop. He was a really nice guy and he didn't have much money still living with mom so I assumed he didn't take bribe money from the public. He bought an old used car with the little money he had and the car died a few days later. Normally one purchases a used car "as-is" in Uzbekistan but he told me he got his money back after threatening them with violence. I still say he's a nice guy but nobody is perfect.
 
I once stayed in an apartment a few blocks from the presidential palace in Uzbekistan. My ex finacee and I were talking english while we approach our apartment door. Someone in the corridor, being a good communist rat, reported me staying at that apartment. I avoided the cops for days who pounded at my door every few hours but at one time I opened the door expecting my ex to show up, they did, and my ex was right behind them. They told me as a foreigner, I can't live so close to the president. After drilling me and my ex for hours, they said $100 will make the problem go away and I can stay at the apartment. I called the apartment manager and told him I wasn't going to pay the cops and and to find me another place. He paid the bribe since he didn't have another place for me.
 
In Ukraine a couple of cops stopped me late at night in an underground tunnel. Gave them my passport as they asked. They wanted to check for a gun and one cop frisked me and pulled out my wallet and handed it to the other cop. I tried to keep my eyes on cop holding my wallet at all times while the other distracted me. Finally the cop frisking me turned me around and while I spun my head to keep an eye on my wallet, there was enough time for the cop holding my wallet to pull out some money. I didn't keep an accurate count of my money but I'm sure I had more in there than after the encounter. I felt it was better to be robbed by criminals since I would have more control on the situation. With the cops, backed by their badges and guns, I had this thought in my mind they were going to put me behind bars after a little play time called police brutality if they didn't get what they wanted.
 
I trust the cops in the FSU to break the law before enforcing it. I don't want to scare anybody and I'm not afraid to to go back to the FSU but if one is going to the FSU, unless you're looking for trouble, it's damn good advice to avoid cops.

[Shadow]

I do not share the grim view of the police in the FSU.
My own experiences are that they have never in any way stopped or hindered me, even if they knew I was a foreigner. And I am sure that when dealt with the right way the police is going to do their job just as well as in any Western country. Which knowing the effectiveness of the police here is not a huge task.

The issue arises when foreigners start in their 'demand' mode. The respect people might have for their police at home seems to be thrown out when they cross the border, and at once any cop is a corrupt lowly creature that could not find a better job as to leech from locals and foreigners. That attitude is sertain to cause a problem and delays that are often reported. Treat them with the respect they are used to for wearing the uniform, and you will find their response entirely different.

[jone]

The Shakedown is a common practice in all facets of Eastern European life.  But it is nothing specific or new to that part of the world.  The term Bakeesh was instigated during the Ottoman Empire hundreds of years ago and was the successor term for other terms much older for graft and corruption.

I, too, have witnessed (first hand in Russia and by direct observation in Urkaine) the fleecing of drivers for a small amount of cash to avoid a ticket.  But in each circumstance, the drivers were violating the law and, therefore chose the lesser of two evils, paying off the law enforcement.

To establish that such a bribe would be standard for a case in which an assault and burglary were committed (with premeditation) is far fetched.  The police still have to do their jobs.  The issue is whether they will ignore their duties because it requires real police skills.  I rather doubt that such would be the case.

My business associate used to laugh because he had been high enough in the FSB that no one ever sought to shake him down.  However, for little things, he always paid to assist those helping us. 

It is has been proposed that police are not serious about apprehending criminals in FSU countries.  If you want to see serious, I suggest you sit down some time with an FSB officer and just see how serious they are (very few will talk with Westerners).  There are the local cops - who operate with a high school mentality - and then there are the true professionals.  While such an officer might take money, their great concern is upholding the law.

Respect the uniform and if you do not receive the support you need, advance to a higher station.

[calmissile]

I have noticed on the forum a lot of westerners with very strong opinions about right and wrong, bribes or no bribes, etc.  Going to the FSU and expressing this attitude to a cop is not a wise idea.  I have never been given any trouble by a cop in Ukraine and I have approached many of them for directions and assistance.

Like one of the posters mentioned, if you go into 'demand mode' or express your feeling about right and wrong to a cop you are probably going to get hassled.  It's just common sense.  If you don't like their culture, don't go there!  You are not going to change it and trying to imply that you come from a 'superior' culture is sure to get you in trouble.

Staying close to a native and being low key is the safest way to avoid trouble IMO.  The only time I felt a little apprehensive was my all night taxi ride from Berdyansk to Cherkassy when we were unable to get a train or bus.  Staying close to the taxi driver all through the ordeal and not getting angry over the situation payed off.  He took care of me and we avoided any thugs or police.

IMHO the attitude of the foreigner has a lot to do with staying out of trouble, as well as avoiding the higher risk environments that are known for trouble.

[Brillynt]

IMHO the attitude of the foreigner has a lot to do with staying out of trouble, as well as avoiding the higher risk environments that are known for trouble.

+1000

[vaiano777]

I have noticed on the forum a lot of westerners with very strong opinions about right and wrong, bribes or no bribes, etc.  Going to the FSU and expressing this attitude to a cop is not a wise idea.  I have never been given any trouble by a cop in Ukraine and I have approached many of them for directions and assistance.

Like one of the posters mentioned, if you go into 'demand mode' or express your feeling about right and wrong to a cop you are probably going to get hassled.  It's just common sense.  If you don't like their culture, don't go there!  You are not going to change it and trying to imply that you come from a 'superior' culture is sure to get you in trouble.

Staying close to a native and being low key is the safest way to avoid trouble IMO.  The only time I felt a little apprehensive was my all night taxi ride from Berdyansk to Cherkassy when we were unable to get a train or bus.  Staying close to the taxi driver all through the ordeal and not getting angry over the situation payed off.  He took care of me and we avoided any thugs or police.

IMHO the attitude of the foreigner has a lot to do with staying out of trouble, as well as avoiding the higher risk environments that are known for trouble.

When I walked into that flat on Saturday and saw all of that blood, and then seeing that the cops had no concern for this man's well-being and intended to take him to the police station to further question him, I almost blew a gasket. However, the dominant, repeating thought I had in my head was, "You've been here four years without any trouble and without any cops knowing who you are or where you are. Do you really want to change that now??? There must be a calmer way to handle this."

To top it all off, the victim had a very close relative die today too back home. I am heartbroken for their family.

[GQBlues]

The OP's subject person in this case has nothing to do with having an attitude, nor his experience happened with the police. Not quite sure how this evolved to whether or not visiting foreigners' carry attitudes towards the police.
 
While I do not have an argument as to whether or not there are honest policemen in FSU, I think it will be far more helpful from those of you who are certain of this to please point out exactly how YOU determine which of then are *honest* and those not to be trusted for anyone not as gifted as the seeming few. I've asked this question already but received no response.
 
That would be far more helpful for those, like myself, who are still not convinced or at least skeptical in general. I am very curious considering the natives themselves are resigned there's a greater lack of rule of law in FSU and couldn't quite ascertain how a few day tripping, bride-seeking foreigners can make that determination where the residing population cannot be so sure.

[mies]

The victim woke up, and was coherent enough to tell the story on Monday. He said the girl's English is not very good, so he really didn't understand what she was saying or doing. His flat had a little 6 foot corridor between the front door and the second door. He didn't think anything of it. So, he grabbed the groceries he had bought for her and brought them into the doorway when she asked him to come to the door.

He was holding the bag of groceries when the door was opened, and he never saw the mallet coming toward his temple. Based on the spatter, that was the first hit. He was hit in the right temple and swung around to his left, falling toward that second door. He doesn't remember anything after that.

His mother send me concerned emails. That is how I found out. Then, she sent me the number of the victim's translator that he had kept in contact with to use a second time when he returned, which he did. That girl is not the sharpest tool in the shed. I had his address, but I didn't know the flat number. She could't tell me the flat number since she forgot. When we arrived at the flat and the police were there and she was inside the flat with the police and her mother, she couldn't even tell my girl in Russian where she was. It took us 25 minutes to find the flat once we arrived at the address. Thank goodness the police weren't ready to leave yet.

The older lady does not generally translate for me, as it is difficult for me to get her to leave her flat, and in general, I don't need a translator, but I needed someone to deal with the police, and she is the perfect person for that because she is a soft, caring, nice, sweet, pit-bull whose only goal in life is to help others.

I will update you now that I have finally gotten through all of the posts.

The victim's mother arrives into Odessa this morning. He is 35 years old, and never committed a crime or paid for a prostitute in his life. He is coherent enough to answer questions, and the police came on Monday. I arranged for my own independent translator, and there is a contact here connected to the Embassy for situations such as this. His name is Robert and he is with the Presbyterian church, and has been here for almost 11 years and knows more Russian than me. The translator and him stayed through the entire questioning as the victim is coherent, and has some recollection of the incident, but could not defend himself against the usual spin of the police. I have heard of two different guys getting beat up in Odessa, and then the police take the beaten guy to the police station and try to charge him with a crime. Having the two of them there forced the police to do their job.

I printed a copy of all girls on Anastasia by this name and took them to the hospital Sunday and had her identified then. He identified her a second time independently on Monday as well. She is not a professional criminal, and based on the amount of blood, and the fact that three things were left at the scene of the crime, she and her cohorts, (two or three guys based on what I saw, since I am not a professional investigator, I can only tell you what I surmise) were not professionals. They did not check for a pulse, left in a hurry, and most likely thought he was dead. Also, since she has to give her passport to Anastasia to be on their site, they have a record in Moscow.

I had one of my translators who is connected to Anastasia contact Moscow for this girl's info, but ran into a small wall until we get more info from the victim's account. Unfortunately, he cannot remember his password at this point. So, we need to bring a computer to the hospital with 3 G and would take someone's help to do this if you are open, please contact me. That way he can apply for the lost password and reset the account.

We have found the girl's cell phone number, but obviously, there is no answer. She probably ditched the phone.

I assure you, this guy was not a sex tourist, and was only seeking love. However, he was looking for girls a little too young in my opinion, and his translator didn't like this girl. That is why I think he was dating her without his translator. He wanted to do what he wanted to do.

For those of you that noticed, yes, I have no criminal past whatsoever, and would never even think of any retribution, but seem to have made some savory contacts for the first time in my life, and they (both Ukrainian and American) seem to think that old fashioned justice is the best path. However, all involved are just trying to get as much information as possible so this girl and her cohorts will go to prison. I believe non-violence is the best path.

Also, this guy is not the type of guy nor strength of character that would ever pursue "getting the message out". I have that strength, he does not. In fact, if he were completely coherent, he would just go home and heal. However, he is not the same person he was before the attack. He smiles, and can have short conversations, but readily forgets things, moves very gingerly, and has massive head trauma. He sleeps a lot, and really tries not to accept help. He cannot deduce that he needs anything at this point. I really hope he heals.

His mother will be at my flat in less than 20 minutes, but if anyone wants to help, send me a PM. One guy from Cincinnati offered some assistance and I will inform the parents and they can decide what course to take.

The problem with the Ukrainian way is that I can extrapolate the probably results and future actions and reactions. Also, I know that things can be traced back to me. I am one of only two foreigners involved. So, if something does happen to this girl, or her cohorts, it is very difficult for me not to be in the cross -hairs without having protection around me, or the means to pay for that protection.

Yes, many small groups. By dumb luck (or bad luck, depending on your point of view), I have met some guys who can make anything happen in Ukraine and have done so.

Any other questions?

You acted honorably by helping this man.

Police can and should request the phone service provider company to release all records on this girl's number.
In addition to this, you may be able to do this independently of police, for some kind of "fee" and using your ukrainian friends' help.
Police should also send request to Anastasia to release all records for the victim and all women who communicated with him. To me "unless you remember the password we can't help you" - sounds like a total bs in a circumstances like this.
Police can use these records to identify from which IP the girl was writing to Anastasia web site, and find all her typical locations.
 
This really isn't too hard. The only thing needed to start this whole process: police should open the case, in response to victim's written request.

[mies]

I am acquainted with the owner of a large and substantial business in Odessa.  This person assures me that petty street crimes involving violence are almost no existent in Odessa. This person says real crimes are perpetrated at much higher levels, with less violence and for far more money.

This incident would not be considered a professional type of event but one done by hamfisted amateurs that the police would be eager to lock up.  Cooperate with the police and yes it might take a payment to them to get the best results.  The police are on an unofficial "user fee" system due to their low salaries.

Since these actors are amateurs, they are not going to be able to buy their way out...if they had that kind of money they wouldn't be involved in this kind of low level crime.

I fully agree with this intuition (street crimes may be common, but no so much involving violence). My opinion is identical.

[Faux Pas]

The OP's subject person in this case has nothing to do with having an attitude, nor his experience happened with the police. Not quite sure how this evolved to whether or not visiting foreigners' carry attitudes towards the police.
 
While I do not have an argument as to whether or not there are honest policemen in FSU, I think it will be far more helpful from those of you who are certain of this to please point out exactly how YOU determine which of then are *honest* and those not to be trusted for anyone not as gifted as the seeming few. I've asked this question already but received no response.
 
That would be far more helpful for those, like myself, who are still not convinced or at least skeptical in general. I am very curious considering the natives themselves are resigned there's a greater lack of rule of law in FSU and couldn't quite ascertain how a few day tripping, bride-seeking foreigners can make that determination where the residing population cannot be so sure.

+1

[mies]

The ID number is official police business, so I am not sure whether I should release it until we are a short distance further down the line. I would like to make sure that this is the best possible idea and that my releasing this info will not adversely affect anyone involved or the case. If you would like to visit the victim, please send me a PM or email, and I would be happy to give you the hospital name and address. He is in Ward 6 Neurosurgery. He is the only American there, He is not hard to find. I am going over there now to be with his mother who has just arrived from America.

The meaning of the word incredulous is = unwilling or unable to believe something.

I must apologize if you receive this as crass as that is not my intention. I realize you are just trying to help. I am doing the best I can, and cannot be overly concerned if you are unwilling or unable to believe something I am currently living through. I have much work to do to try to bring this girl and her cohorts to justice, and help the family to cope with, deal with, and progress through this difficult time with as much grace as possible. I will be at the hospital, and then have to teach this evening. So, I probably won't be able to check this site for at least 9 hours, but if you want more info, I will let you know as soon as I know.

I just checked, and the girl's profile has already been removed from AD. So, you were correct. I was certain they would do that when they received the phone call from my contact yesterday. So, the ID number would no longer do you or anyone else any good. I have her profile picture though.

Thanks for following.

There may be circumstances when you are not allowed to release certain details.

You should have saved the screenshot of her profile. Or find it in now the google memory (sorry, I don't know the proper terms for these things). Looks like she is covering her trace, or the agency is trying to salvage their reputation. Police should request all records from the agency immediately - all information about her, her IPs, her contacts, etc.
Technically, if the police deems appropriate, they can even raid the AD office, and confiscate their computers to thoroughly search their harddrives. After all, the agency facilitated this crime.
Maybe it will be a good step to approach AD in a friendly way, and suggest that either they release all information on this woman now to you, unofficially and amicably, or their reputation will be ruined thanks to all the media you will attract, and the police presence in their offices and investigations. After all, police can use a couple of new computers, collection of photos of sexy girls would not hurt policemen either.

[calmissile]

The OP's subject person in this case has nothing to do with having an attitude, nor his experience happened with the police. Not quite sure how this evolved to whether or not visiting foreigners' carry attitudes towards the police.
 
While I do not have an argument as to whether or not there are honest policemen in FSU, I think it will be far more helpful from those of you who are certain of this to please point out exactly how YOU determine which of then are *honest* and those not to be trusted for anyone not as gifted as the seeming few. I've asked this question already but received no response.
That would be far more helpful for those, like myself, who are still not convinced or at least skeptical in general. I am very curious considering the natives themselves are resigned there's a greater lack of rule of law in FSU and couldn't quite ascertain how a few day tripping, bride-seeking foreigners can make that determination where the residing population cannot be so sure.

I will attempt to answer your question based upon my limited experience in Ukraine.  In addition, I have native families that live in Ukraine as well as an American that lives in Kiev 1/2 time and 1/2 time in the US.   My past and current G/F also have discussed the topic with me.

You are healthy to be skeptical of the cops in Ukraine.  We also need to to separate the cops that take bribes (normal for Ukraine), the lazy ones that will not investigate a crime, and the ones that go around beating up people.

The cops that take bribes and government officials that take bribes.  Get over it!  That is how it is and your not going to change it.  If you want to fit into the culture you go with the flow.  If you are a renegade and think you will change the culture..... good luck to you.  Personally, I would rather remain low key and not in the limelight for arguing with their customs.

The lazy cops, I don't have an answer for.  If it is important enough to pursue, then I suppose a small bribe might get the job done.  If it isn't that important, I would leave it be.  Whether they pursue investigating a crime might well be dependent on their opinion of you as a person.  If so, asking for help rather than demanding it might be a good approach.  Honey is better than vinegar.  LOL

I have heard several stories about Ukrainian cops beating up foreigners and natives without any provocation.  Two weeks ago I got to meet and American that told me a story about being beat up by cops in Odessa.  After hearing more and more of the story I concluded that he put himself in arms way and was involved in some nefarious business dealings.  Personally, I have not experienced any cops that seem to be the type to go around beating people up just for the hell of it.

Your question about how do short timer visitors keep from getting into trouble with the cops and how do they tell the 'good ones' from the 'bad ones' is a very good question.  It is a difficult situation when you are basically alone or with someone you do not know well enough to trust.

There are several strategies I have used, but might not be suitable for everyone.
1.  Be accompanied by your date/sweetheart/wife, etc. when you are out and about.  She will know how to handle the situation and you playing macho is not going to help, only make matters worse.  Furthermore she will not appreciate your butting into a situation she is trying to resolve or diffuse.
2.  If possible have a family or agent as a friend that you can trust to call 24/7 is case you have any kind of problems.  While I Kiev, I used Val.  He seemed to able to cure any problems.  You can also play dumb to the cops at the site and hand the phone over to your friend to handle the situation.
3.  Don't put yourself at risk.  It sounds common sense, but putting the make on someone else's girlfriend in a bar is likely to get your nose broken or worse.  She might even be flirting with you to test her boyfriends resolve to defend her.  LOL
4.  Avoid the cops if you can.  I have never had any trouble asking for directions, but also try to not do anything that gets their attention.
5.  Don't become a target.  Either your mouth or your wallet is likely to get the earliest attention from thugs or bad cops!

Peronally I am not worried about getting beat up by rogue cops.  When you consider the huge numbers of foreign visitors and the relatively few number of reported cases of police beatings, your chances are pretty good you will not have this problem unless you somehow provoke it.  I feel safer in Ukraine than I do in Los Angeles by a wide margin.

[GQBlues]

I will attempt to answer your question based upon my limited experience in Ukraine.  In addition, I have native families that live in Ukraine as well as an American that lives in Kiev 1/2 time and 1/2 time in the US.   My past and current G/F also have discussed the topic with me.

You are healthy to be skeptical of the cops in Ukraine.  We also need to to separate the cops that take bribes (normal for Ukraine), the lazy ones that will not investigate a crime, and the ones that go around beating up people.

The cops that take bribes and government officials that take bribes.  Get over it!  That is how it is and your not going to change it.  If you want to fit into the culture you go with the flow.  If you are a renegade and think you will change the culture..... good luck to you.  Personally, I would rather remain low key and not in the limelight for arguing with their customs.

The lazy cops, I don't have an answer for.  If it is important enough to pursue, then I suppose a small bribe might get the job done.  If it isn't that important, I would leave it be.  Whether they pursue investigating a crime might well be dependent on their opinion of you as a person.  If so, asking for help rather than demanding it might be a good approach.  Honey is better than vinegar.  LOL

I have heard several stories about Ukrainian cops beating up foreigners and natives without any provocation.  Two weeks ago I got to meet and American that told me a story about being beat up by cops in Odessa.  After hearing more and more of the story I concluded that he put himself in arms way and was involved in some nefarious business dealings.  Personally, I have not experienced any cops that seem to be the type to go around beating people up just for the hell of it.

Your question about how do short timer visitors keep from getting into trouble with the cops and how do they tell the 'good ones' from the 'bad ones' is a very good question.  It is a difficult situation when you are basically alone or with someone you do not know well enough to trust.

There are several strategies I have used, but might not be suitable for everyone.
1.  Be accompanied by your date/sweetheart/wife, etc. when you are out and about.  She will know how to handle the situation and you playing macho is not going to help, only make matters worse.  Furthermore she will not appreciate your butting into a situation she is trying to resolve or diffuse.
2.  If possible have a family or agent as a friend that you can trust to call 24/7 is case you have any kind of problems.  While I Kiev, I used Val.  He seemed to able to cure any problems.  You can also play dumb to the cops at the site and hand the phone over to your friend to handle the situation.
3.  Don't put yourself at risk.  It sounds common sense, but putting the make on someone else's girlfriend in a bar is likely to get your nose broken or worse.  She might even be flirting with you to test her boyfriends resolve to defend her.  LOL
4.  Avoid the cops if you can.  I have never had any trouble asking for directions, but also try to not do anything that gets their attention.
5.  Don't become a target.  Either your mouth or your wallet is likely to get the earliest attention from thugs or bad cops!

Peronally I am not worried about getting beat up by rogue cops.  When you consider the huge numbers of foreign visitors and the relatively few number of reported cases of police beatings, your chances are pretty good you will not have this problem unless you somehow provoke it.  I feel safer in Ukraine than I do in Los Angeles by a wide margin.

Calmissile-
 
All you generally said was *keep a low profile* but didn't really address how one can pinpoint an honest cop from one short on the honesty scale. I believe there's more than just a few cases of people reporting how they got fleeced by the police for simply being a low-profiled foreigner going about and minding his own business while in FSU. I've walked over to a couple of cops, one even carrying an AK (during the Beslan period - and I looked like a Chechen) in Moscow to ask for direction too and didn't get riddled with bullets...but that doesn't really parse what we're saying here.
 
If bribing a cop is the cure-all for any given situation then what you're really saying is, generally, there's no rule of law in FSU, correct? If so, then it really doesn't have anything to do whether or not a foreigner flies in with an attitude or not. Things are what they are in FSU...

[Gator]

While I do not have an argument as to whether or not there are honest policemen in FSU, I think it will be far more helpful from those of you who are certain of this to please point out exactly how YOU determine which of then are *honest* and those not to be trusted for anyone not as gifted as the seeming few.

The honest policeman will accept bribes only from the guilty, while the dishonest cop will shakedown anyone given the opportunity.
 
In Moscow my ex-wife's car radio was stolen while we were shopping.  She reported it to the police, and two gruff cops arrived at the scene about an hour later.  Midway through her explanation they interrupted her to say (her translation), "This land is not our land." They promptly drove away without another remark. 

Furious, she drove to the police station (what a scene with strange looking people all over the place, some arriving in handcuffs, others telling tales of woe to the police, some really tough looking cops, posters over the walls of the "Most Wanted," etc. ).   There a kind cop listened to her story sent her to the second floor where after 15 minutes waiting, another cop inspected her car and wrote a report, giving her a copy for the insurance company.  She did not have to pay a bribe to get a report.   The cops did their job and did it promptly, perhaps faster than would happen in the US (where I have no firsthand experience with police to compare).

[jone]

.....   I feel safer in Ukraine than I do in Los Angeles by a wide margin.

That's because I'm here to terrorize your a$$.

[calmissile]

Calmissile-
 
All you generally said was *keep a low profile* but didn't really address how one can pinpoint an honest cop from one short on the honesty scale. I believe there's more than just a few cases of people reporting how they got fleeced by the police for simply being a low-profiled foreigner going about and minding his own business while in FSU. I've walked over to a couple of cops, one even carrying an AK (during the Beslan period - and I looked like a Chechen) in Moscow to ask for direction too and didn't get riddled with bullets...but that doesn't really parse what we're saying here.
 
If bribing a cop is the cure-all for any given situation then what you're really saying is, generally, there's no rule of law in FSU, correct? If so, then it really doesn't have anything to do whether or not a foreigner flies in with an attitude or not. Things are what they are in FSU...

I don't see it as a black and white issue.  There are good cops and bad cops everywhere.  Sorry I did not directly answer your question.  As far as I can tell, you can't tell the difference until you encounter one.

Since I do not see it as a black and white issue/question, my suggestion to remain low profile and not get their attention is the best way to minimize having a problem with a bad cop.  The natives seem to also subscribe to this philosophy.

Of course there is rule of law in Ukraine.  It is just not applied consistently or universally.

[calmissile]

That's because I'm here to terrorize your a$$.

 

[GQBlues]

...I feel safer in Ukraine than I do in Los Angeles by a wide margin.

LOL. I forgot to respond to this before jone did, but I'm sure Calmissile have his reason/s and whatever they may be, I can't say I share the sentiment. Not even San Berdo...
 
For one, I probably blend *better* in South Central than I do in St Pete...Besides, I got raped more than a few times in Southbay, but so what? I'm sure plenty of men would've love to trade places with me