Just Starting out -- How about that Age Difference

[jetjockey]

Hey everyone, I am new to this site and there seems to be some really great stories, lessons learned and all around good advice perfect for newbies like me...I do have a basic question about the large (and apparent) disregard fo the age differences between the woman and the men who chase them...it seems from many sites I've visited, I see teenagers seeing no problem in seeing men up to or over 50!  There must be a total lack of concern for these large age differences in Ukraine...to me, I would not mind finding a women who is 20 years my junior, say a woman who is late twenties/early thirties...someone who can still have kids, but someone closer to my age...are the women there just not that concerned about age differences or do they just say that to get you to write and then try and scam you later on...this sure is different than here in the US...

[jone]

Been there, done that. 

Imagine you're a hot little thing running around Kyiv or Kharkiv or Odessa.  You go into the agency office and they say that you're going to make between $500 and $1200 US.  All you have to do is stroke along some aging guy who believes he hasn't lost his youth.  So you put your pictures on the website and you have the agency answer your emails for you and chat with the men  (there are video loops that are used so it looks like she's on your screen as well) - and if they ever come to town, go out and act like you enjoy being with them.   Who cares if they're old enough to be your grandfather?  You like spending time with your grandfather, right?

Anyone under 21 is there for your money.  Anyone under 28 is suspect.  Anyone over 30 might be someone that you can have a meaningful conversation with.  There are, of course, exceptions to the rule. 

I am wagering you are talking to people on PPL (Pay Per Letter) sites.   These sites are like the game Jumangi.  Every time you roll the dice you wind up in some hole or with a herd of rhinos coming after you.  Be realistic about your chances.  You have to roll double 6s to win the prize.  And then you have to know what to do when you roll those 6s.

Read ML's intro thread for newbies and if you really want to take on PPL sites, do so with the absolute assurance that they will take your money.   You have about as much chance of success as one of the Victors in the Hunger Games.  And if you can't relate to that analogy, you probably shouldn't be talking to anyone under 35.

Good luck.

-jone

[calmissile]

Hey everyone, I am new to this site and there seems to be some really great stories, lessons learned and all around good advice perfect for newbies like me...I do have a basic question about the large (and apparent) disregard fo the age differences between the woman and the men who chase them...it seems from many sites I've visited, I see teenagers seeing no problem in seeing men up to or over 50!  There must be a total lack of concern for these large age differences in Ukraine...to me, I would not mind finding a women who is 20 years my junior, say a woman who is late twenties/early thirties...someone who can still have kids, but someone closer to my age...are the women there just not that concerned about age differences or do they just say that to get you to write and then try and scam you later on...this sure is different than here in the US...

In my experience it is all of the above.  Contrary to some age gap haters on the forum, you need to keep it in perspective.  20+ year old women that have had no children might well be suspect wanting to marry an old fart (like me).  By same token it is true that women with children find it difficult to find men their same age that want to marry them.  FSU men generally do not want to raise someone else's children.  The same is true to some extent in the US.

Mature women that have already raised their children and/or put into the undesirable category due to age seem to be more responsive to caring less about an age difference and are more interested in finding a companion that loves them and treats them right.

For sure the warnings about very young women not being sincere about long term marriage with a large are gap are valid.  Use some common sense...... most women want children at some point.  There is still a desperation factor also that needs to be considered.  While I have no problem with the idea of either parties wanting to improve their lives by changing countries, the motives are what seem to be what is difficult to ferret out (sometimes until after the move and marriage).

For a relatively young guy that wants children with a young FSU woman, that is probably the most difficult situation to assess.  How do you really know her intentions until you make the move and get married.

As far as the age gap nonsense that is given in profiles on dating sites............. I personally think it is ridiculous in most cases.  I think the agencies tell the gals to leave the age gap question wide open so as not to rule out any rich admirer.   lol

We have a number of members with very large age gaps that seem to be happily married.  They pop in once in a while but do not stick around to defend their happy marriages.   As some posters note... it is between two people and the rest of the opinions do not really matter.

[jone]

Hey everyone, I am new to this site and there seems to be some really great stories, lessons learned and all around good advice perfect for newbies like me...I do have a basic question about the large (and apparent) disregard fo the age differences between the woman and the men who chase them...it seems from many sites I've visited, I see teenagers seeing no problem in seeing men up to or over 50!  There must be a total lack of concern for these large age differences in Ukraine...to me, I would not mind finding a women who is 20 years my junior, say a woman who is late twenties/early thirties...someone who can still have kids, but someone closer to my age...are the women there just not that concerned about age differences or do they just say that to get you to write and then try and scam you later on...this sure is different than here in the US...

GQ - Did you put him up to this?   

[Daveman]

...These sites are like the game Jumangi.  Every time you roll the dice you wind up in some hole or with a heard of rhinos coming after you...

Bwaaahahahaha!   

[Turboguy]

 

We have a number of members with very large age gaps that seem to be happily married.  They pop in once in a while but do not stick around to defend their happy marriages.   As some posters note... it is between two people and the rest of the opinions do not really matter.

I agree with most of what you wrote, but do disagree with this part.  The ones with a big age gap so stick around and defend their marriage right up until they get divorced.   Of course they usually say it works for me but no one else should do it.
I do have to agree that a lot of the 19-21 year old women who state in their profile that they are looking for a guy up to 50 or so, particularly on the pay per letter sites are just out for the money.   There are always a few women who are open to someone older but the question that might be asked is are they really ready to make that choice and will they be still around in a few years.   One thing I would think you might want to consider is your feelings about children.   I have seen a number of divorces among couples with age gaps where the man didn't want children and the young woman at the time of marriage was fine with that but as her biological clock kept ticking it became an issue that ended the marriage, or at least that was the excuse that was given.

[calmissile]

I agree with most of what you wrote, but do disagree with this part.  The ones with a big age gap so stick around and defend their marriage right up until they get divorced.   Of course they usually say it works for me but no one else should do it.
I do have to agree that a lot of the 19-21 year old women who state in their profile that they are looking for a guy up to 50 or so, particularly on the pay per letter sites are just out for the money.   There are always a few women who are open to someone older but the question that might be asked is are they really ready to make that choice and will they be still around in a few years.   One thing I would think you might want to consider is your feelings about children.   I have seen a number of divorces among couples with age gaps where the man didn't want children and the young woman at the time of marriage was fine with that but as her biological clock kept ticking it became an issue that ended the marriage, or at least that was the excuse that was given.

Very good point.

[jetjockey]

Thanks for the input here...I have heard so many horror stories about being taken advantage of I guess we have to go over there with our "radar" in full attenuation mode...I am of the view that most guys really are not as smart as they think and can be easily swayed by a pretty face (me included) so it must be difficult to find that special "one"...at this point, it seems like there are 2 different approaches I could take; -date a ton of woman and then thru the law of averages try and filter thru the one you click with the most (easier said then done); or, try and find that special girl early on and then spend time courting only her...not sure but it seems the former is the better approach as I gotta believe that these women must also be seeing multiple guys as well and they are playing like you are....although I read in one of the other posts where finding a girl in a smaller town she may be more sincere and not as "sophisticated" and use to english speaking guys chasing her...not sure which town to start with first...

[Faux Pas]

Thanks for the input here...I have heard so many horror stories about being taken advantage of I guess we have to go over there with our "radar" in full attenuation mode...I am of the view that most guys really are not as smart as they think and can be easily swayed by a pretty face (me included) so it must be difficult to find that special "one"...at this point, it seems like there are 2 different approaches I could take; -date a ton of woman and then thru the law of averages try and filter thru the one you click with the most (easier said then done); or, try and find that special girl early on and then spend time courting only her...not sure but it seems the former is the better approach as I gotta believe that these women must also be seeing multiple guys as well and they are playing like you are....although I read in one of the other posts where finding a girl in a smaller town she may be more sincere and not as "sophisticated" and use to english speaking guys chasing her...not sure which town to start with first...

jj

Keep in mind that going to Russia or Ukraine doesn't make you any better looking, younger, richer or sexier than you are at home. Yes there is a "little" at play as what you are use to and what is happening in the FSU as far as age gap goes. A little but not much.

You didn't state your age that I saw but, a good rule of thumb is, if you don't date 20 year olds at home, don't date them in the FSU. Take your normal age gap that you currently go with to date and consider 5 more years quite a stretch, 10 years is definitely pushing it. If you're feeling lucky go to Vegas, your end result is likely much better there than in the FSU trying to date women 20-30 years younger than you.

Welcome to RWD! 

[calmissile]

Thanks for the input here...I have heard so many horror stories about being taken advantage of I guess we have to go over there with our "radar" in full attenuation mode...I am of the view that most guys really are not as smart as they think and can be easily swayed by a pretty face (me included) so it must be difficult to find that special "one"...at this point, it seems like there are 2 different approaches I could take; -date a ton of woman and then thru the law of averages try and filter thru the one you click with the most (easier said then done); or, try and find that special girl early on and then spend time courting only her...not sure but it seems the former is the better approach as I gotta believe that these women must also be seeing multiple guys as well and they are playing like you are....although I read in one of the other posts where finding a girl in a smaller town she may be more sincere and not as "sophisticated" and use to english speaking guys chasing her...not sure which town to start with first...

You are entering into one of the most controversial arguments the forum sees.  The old Write One Visit One (WOVO) vs. the Write Many Visit Many (WMVM) controversy continues.  I have done both and still don't see one way or the other as having a big advantage.

FWIW, here are few observations I have made.  They are generalities and not to be taken as gospel.

Village girls are less likely to be highly educated with advanced degrees.
Village girls are less sophisticated in some senses and are more prone to the propaganda they have heard about western men.
Village girls seems to have more hangups about superstitions and strange behaviors.
Village girls may be more willing to leave their very low income and poor lifestyle and emigrate.

City girls are generally more savy to the world and international dating in general.
City girls are more spoiled by the better lifestyles that are offered in the big cities.
City girls can be more picky about upgrading.
You are much more likely to find an English speaking woman in the big city.

All in all there does seem to be some significant differences, but they are difficult to describe and there are no doubt a lot of exceptions to the observations I have made.

Part of the problem you will have is deciding how to manage your time.  If you have only a couple of weeks to spend in country, it is going to be very difficult to do your screening in person and then still have enough quality time to spend with the one you want to pursue.  You might have in your head that you are going there for a couple of weeks and fall in love with your 'selection'.  You might, but it is unlikely that a quality FSU women is going to move that fast or give any strong indications that 'you are her man'.  The image of going to the FSU and picking a gal off the shelf to come and marry you is just not going to happen.  Contrary to the hype on the dating sites, most of the women will require a period of time just to build trust in you.   Only then will she open up and express her feelings toward you.

I have always liked the idea of developing a 'relationship' on line for an extensive period of time on video Skype before thinking that there might be a possibility of compatibility.  It's true that it could all fall apart upon first meeting, but most I have heard from do not indicate this is usually the case.  The biggest challenge will be to communicate in something more real than 'how is the weather' during your Skype chats.   How long you can keep her interested in you prior to going to meet her is also a clue as to how interested she is.  The green card gals and pro-daters tend to not want to waste their time if you not an easy quick mark.

Lastly, if you have an interest in the FSU and their culture and are not only interested in quickly finding a wife, you might want to consider what I did on my last trip.  Take 2-3 months, consider it a vacation and adventure and try to fit into the culture as best you can.  There is a huge amount of history to observe in the FSU.  As long as you are going so far from home, might as get the benefit of knowing something about the country as well.

Good luck on whatever path you choose.  Be sure to read all the newbie stuff here on the forum to keep yourself out of trouble and your money in your wallet.

[Chicagoguy]

On this site it seems we are always talking about agencies. One of our members did a post last year of 13 free sites. I still have the list but don't know how to copy it and post it. It is my belief that there are more honest women there. At least it worked that way for me.
Also,there are a few trustworthy members here who have tours and/or will guide you. There is some $ involved here but maybe worth it for some people.

[jetjockey]

Really great feedback and advice...thanks.  It sounds like there are many different approaches but no matter which course you choose it really is about time management...I also like the idea of spending more time in country and learning more about their customs and perhaps even enough of Russian to appear to be able to show you are trying...village girls vs city girls is a hard one for me and since I haven't been it seems the first trip or two could be spent in a larger city to get a feel for how this works...I guess the biggest challenge I face and would assume most guys face is being able to determine is the girl playing you or not...but if she invites you to see her friends, or opens up more with her personal family life could be a great sign...I read where most of the posts here suggest you should talk with a girl on Skype which makes a lot of sense to me...do most of the girls even have a computer (especially from the smaller towns)...and of course google transalate makes it all the more easier to do...I guess if the girl really likes you that she will find a way...again, thanks for all the advice...I guess I have a ton of things to learn before I go....

[Eduard]

JJ,
all of the above is good advice, however a lot depends on your and your partner's looks, personality and animal magnetism 
I assume you are in your mid 40s to mid 50s, so forget about women under 28 (if you are in your mid 40s) and if you are in your 50s, if you look in shape and handsome women who are 34 and up should be your target. You'll have a lot more positive response if you don't mind if a woman had a child or two. Also it can take you a very long time to find a 9 or a 10 who will be interested and one who's interest you will be able to keep. You'll have too much competition from local FSU men along with the men from Western Europe. A 7 or an 8 in the FSU is still very attractive by US standarts. But what's more important they usually have better values and personality than 9s and 10s.
My wife and I have a 20 year age gap between us, so it is possible but really depends on the 2 people involved.

[Chicagoguy]

Jetjockey,
You use the term village girl and city girl. A true Russian village can be dirt poor and no computers. A big city girl [ Moscow, St.Pete] might very well be sophisticated. Then there are the smaller cities. My wife comes from a city of 500,000. Even there they are sophisticated but do not get as much attention - just my opinion.

[calmissile]

Really great feedback and advice...thanks.  It sounds like there are many different approaches but no matter which course you choose it really is about time management...I also like the idea of spending more time in country and learning more about their customs and perhaps even enough of Russian to appear to be able to show you are trying...village girls vs city girls is a hard one for me and since I haven't been it seems the first trip or two could be spent in a larger city to get a feel for how this works...I guess the biggest challenge I face and would assume most guys face is being able to determine is the girl playing you or not...but if she invites you to see her friends, or opens up more with her personal family life could be a great sign...I read where most of the posts here suggest you should talk with a girl on Skype which makes a lot of sense to me...do most of the girls even have a computer (especially from the smaller towns)...and of course google translate makes it all the more easier to do...I guess if the girl really likes you that she will find a way...again, thanks for all the advice...I guess I have a ton of things to learn before I go....

As far as having computers, it's a mixed bag.  Some do, some don't.  Considering the huge number of eligible women that are available, you can easily sort out the ones that do.  The ones that don't are likely to be a much longer journey for you anyway.

As far as Google translate for use with Skype............. we hated it.  All of the cut and paste translators make the Skype experience tedious and very time consuming.  I would recommend you download the free translator called "Skype Translate".  My fiance and I have been using it for several months and and it is 100% better than any of the cut and paste translators.  It also translates both directions automatically and runs right in the text box.  If you have any questions about it you can PM me and I will try and assist you.

Good luck.

[calmissile]

On this site it seems we are always talking about agencies. One of our members did a post last year of 13 free sites. I still have the list but don't know how to copy it and post it. It is my belief that there are more honest women there. At least it worked that way for me.
Also,there are a few trustworthy members here who have tours and/or will guide you. There is some $ involved here but maybe worth it for some people.

Good point and I agree.  I think it is ML that maintains the list and it is no doubt somewhere in the newbie sections.

[Eduard]

As far as having computers, it's a mixed bag.  Some do, some don't.  Considering the huge number of eligible women that are available, you can easily sort out the ones that do.  The ones that don't are likely to be a much longer journey for you anyway.

As far as Google translate for use with Skype............. we hated it.  All of the cut and paste translators make the Skype experience tedious and very time consuming.  I would recommend you download the free translator called "Skype Translate".  My fiance and I have been using it for several months and and it is 100% better than any of the cut and paste translators.  It also translates both directions automatically and runs right in the text box.  If you have any questions about it you can PM me and I will try and assist you.

Good luck.

JJ, as a person who has seen lots of translations done by electronic translators and who is fluent in both English and Russian I can tell you one thing: You will be playing the proverbial "Russian Roulette" most of the time and only really understand who you married after yo have been married for at least a year and she would have learned English to the point where you two can communicate without having to use any e-translation. This goes both ways by the way. Am FSU woman who marries a WM who she gets to know with the help of e-translator only will only start realising who she married after she learns English and has been married to the man for a year or so. I personally know women who married American men and once they learned English and got to know them got disillusioned and left.
I'm sorry but when I see people who use e-translators advising others to use e-translators to me it looks like "The blind leading the blind".


Now there is definitely a place for e-translators for part of the time- when you skype with your lady or on dates when you want to spend some one-on-one time. But you should try to spend as much time as possible communicating with a woman with no language barrier at all. Only then you have at least a decent chance of getting to know who she is before marriage.
Let's face it, women can be hard to figure out even when you and her come from the same culture and speak the same language. Trying to figure out each other using e-translators where only about 30% gets translated correctly, the other 30% sounds like some strange secret code, the other 30% is translated with the opposite meaning (completely wrong) of what was intended, and 10% will spell out Russian words without attempting to translate them. I haven't calculated the exact percentages off course, but you get the idea.

[I/O]

I read in one of the other posts where finding a girl in a smaller town she may be more sincere and not as "sophisticated" and use to english speaking guys chasing her...not sure which town to start with first...

Try an American small town - unsophisticated girls who don't understand (or speak for the most part) basic English.

[Eduard]

This reminds me of this Russian guy I knew back in New York who immigrated here with his wife, who happened to be from a small village. When he found out that she was cheating on him with her new boss at work he was crying on my shoulder, saying something like: "I brought this bitch out into the world from her small shitty village, I brought her to America, and this is how she repays me?"


Believe me it's not about whether a woman is from a big city or a small provincial town. It's about her value system and sense of honor, sense of respect for people around her and for herself. You need to be able to truly get to know and understand who you are dealing with. Sure, a village girl will likely be less sophisticated and not used to the fast pace and the luxuries of a big city. But she can get used to them very quickly and start looking for bigger and better things leaving you behind.
On the other hand a big city girl can be very family oriented and have a great value system. So don't only look at where she is from, look at the individual.

[Patagonie]

This reminds me of this Russian guy I knew back in New York who immigrated here with his wife, who happened to be from a small village. When he found out that she was cheating on him with her new boss at work he was crying on my shoulder, saying something like: "I brought this bitch out into the world from her small shitty village, I brought her to America, and this is how she repays me?"


Believe me it's not about whether a woman is from a big city or a small provincial town. It's about her value system and sense of honor, sense of respect for people around her and for herself. You need to be able to truly get to know and understand who you are dealing with. Sure, a village girl will likely be less sophisticated and not used to the fast pace and the luxuries of a big city. But she can get used to them very quickly and start looking for bigger and better things leaving you behind.
On the other hand a big city girl can be very family oriented and have a great value system. So don't only look at where she is from, look at the individual.

+1
"It's about her value system and sense of honor, sense of respect for people around her and for herself. You need to be able to truly get to know and understand who you are dealing with."
It is why you must keep your cold head.

[Patagonie]

You are entering into one of the most controversial arguments the forum sees.  The old Write One Visit One (WOVO) vs. the Write Many Visit Many (WMVM) controversy continues.  I have done both and still don't see one way or the other as having a big advantage.

FWIW, here are few observations I have made.  They are generalities and not to be taken as gospel.

Village girls are less likely to be highly educated with advanced degrees.
Village girls are less sophisticated in some senses and are more prone to the propaganda they have heard about western men.
Village girls seems to have more hangups about superstitions and strange behaviors.
Village girls may be more willing to leave their very low income and poor lifestyle and emigrate.

City girls are generally more savy to the world and international dating in general.
City girls are more spoiled by the better lifestyles that are offered in the big cities.
City girls can be more picky about upgrading.
You are much more likely to find an English speaking woman in the big city.

All in all there does seem to be some significant differences, but they are difficult to describe and there are no doubt a lot of exceptions to the observations I have made.

Part of the problem you will have is deciding how to manage your time (correct - and your emotionnal state too).  If you have only a couple of weeks to spend in country, it is going to be very difficult to do your screening in person and then still have enough quality time to spend with the one you want to pursue.  You might have in your head that you are going there for a couple of weeks and fall in love with your 'selection'.  You might, but it is unlikely that a quality FSU women is going to move that fast or give any strong indications that 'you are her man'.  (wrong - it is because you don't know how to read a woman) The image of going to the FSU and picking a gal off the shelf to come and marry you is just not going to happen.  Contrary to the hype on the dating sites, most of the women will require a period of time just to build trust in you (i don't know where you read this on sites - but the hype that many successful VO guys here are building letting newbies believe that they just have to go and they will pick a gal in one or two trips whatever they do, is dangerous IMHO)   Only then will she open up and express her feelings toward you
a woman is likely to express her interest towards you, ONLY after she is comfortable with you. If you build this comfort, you can have intimacy in less than 10 hours of mutual presence. The fact is that writing and skyping is a way to build comfort prior the meeting. However generally, FSU women needs time to see you making actions and consider you as a mate marriage material, this is the culture part, and the family's approvance  is generally a high step in such process.

I have always liked the idea of developing a 'relationship' on line for an extensive period of time on video Skype before thinking that there might be a possibility of compatibility.  It's true that it could all fall apart upon first meeting, but most I have heard from do not indicate this is usually the case. (because the majority of guys who have crashed never come here to tell us)  The biggest challenge will be to communicate in something more real than 'how is the weather' during your Skype chats.   How long you can keep her interested in you prior to going to meet her is also a clue as to how interested she is.  The green card gals and pro-daters tend to not want to waste their time if you not an easy quick mark. (correct)

Lastly, if you have an interest in the FSU and their culture and are not only interested in quickly finding a wife, you might want to consider what I did on my last trip.  Take 2-3 months, consider it a vacation and adventure and try to fit into the culture as best you can.  There is a huge amount of history to observe in the FSU.  As long as you are going so far from home, might as get the benefit of knowing something about the country as well.
Very good option if you can do it

Good luck on whatever path you choose.  Be sure to read all the newbie stuff here on the forum to keep yourself out of trouble and your money in your wallet.

[jetjockey]

Great comments by all and a lot to take in...for me, I am really not sure how you can connect with someone that speaks no English and all you have to go on are her gestures and the talents of the translator...does it make sense to find a girl that can at least speak some English?  Also many of the web sites I visited don't seem to expensive but if you add up all the communication you will undertake with the FSU women it can quickly add up...so the options seems to me to line up with a local who can help you out; or, go to these web sites and trust you got a good one...what do you guys think?  Also, I read where creating a posting on some FSU social sites of what you are looking for makes sense but then you will have to go thru all the women and filter those looking for fun/money and those that are serious....what would be really cool is to get the perspective of a FSU woman, what she saw, what she thinks is the best way to present yourself, how to stand out and so on and so on....thanks again for all of your guidance from this newbie!

[Patagonie]

Great comments by all and a lot to take in...for me, I am really not sure how you can connect with someone that speaks no English and all you have to go on are her gestures and the talents of the translator...does it make sense to find a girl that can at least speak some English?  Also many of the web sites I visited don't seem to expensive but if you add up all the communication you will undertake with the FSU women it can quickly add up...so the options seems to me to line up with a local who can help you out; or, go to these web sites and trust you got a good one...what do you guys think?  Also, I read where creating a posting on some FSU social sites of what you are looking for makes sense but then you will have to go thru all the women and filter those looking for fun/money and those that are serious....what would be really cool is to get the perspective of a FSU woman, what she saw, what she thinks is the best way to present yourself, how to stand out and so on and so on....thanks again for all of your guidance from this newbie!

A girl who speaks no english at all is a big problem.
You will need an interpreter when in FSU. And an independant interpreter, separated from any agencies.

"Also, I read where creating a posting on some FSU social sites of what you are looking for makes sense but then you will have to go thru all the women and filter those looking for fun/money and those that are serious" Correct, this the problem of social sites. Add to the fact that many women would really like to see you, even if they have no serious intention to any commitement and even less to relocate.

" or, go to these web sites and trust you got a good one"
No i never trust. I begin to trust someone i know. The best is to sort sites and agencies through theirs customers. Internet is your friend, and this forum is appropriated.

[Steamer]

does it make sense to find a girl that can at least speak some English? 

It makes all the difference in the world! You must be able to communicate or you are begging for trouble. Cute means nothing if you hate each other. Know yourself. Does a cute girl with a sob story make you weak? Understand this and harden yourself. The worst disasters in life come from fooling ourselves with a pretty picture and a fantasy.

[ML]

Except for 1 out of a thousand  guys (and we have a couple  here), the rest will tell you it is mostly a waste of time to try to form a relationship with a gal who cannot communicate in basic English..

And the costs of  communication with a thousand women will  be at most a hundred dollars if you follow the plan laid out in "Pursuing FSUW 101" in the Starting Out section.

But if you are stubborn and insist on contacting women on Pay Per Letter or pay per phone call sites, you could spend several thousands of dollars exchanging messages with Fat Yuri and talking with women who get a commission for talking with you in their spare time from taking care of their boyfriends, husbands and children.