Re: She wants me to guarantee her security in the US before she comes...

[pitbull]

Pit, that's not really true. Ironically enough, I know a RW who is going through a divorce from an AM right now. I have been very surprised by the amount of State support she has received. Make no mistake, she does need it. She left an abusive husband and took her two kids. One of the kids were his and hers the other was hers. She has received housing, legal help, food stamps and other stipends. The hubby is as useful as tits on a bull, a real piece of work. It's still difficult for her but, she is getting help. Of course that is just one case and probably isn't like this in other states.

I wonder if an Affidavit of Support will be enforced in this case and the man will have to pay back. Also, is the Affidavit just for Federal government or State as well? If just federal - then I'm not surprised it is rarely enforced, since all this help mostly comes from the state.
 
 

[Faux Pas]

Well, that's a totally different story - if it's an abuse story with kids involved, the amount of support is different than in case of a short marriage, without abuse or kids involved. States usually take care of the kids much better than able adults
Paulie doesn't strike me as a man looking to have more kids. Paulie fears that he will be ordered to pay alimony in case his marriage to an RW falls apart relatively soon. My point is, he shouldn't worry, it is very unlikely that he will have to pay anything. In this case, the risk is almost 100% on the RW

But that's the thing, if Ms. Turkey had came and married Paulie, moved to the US and divorced inside of a couple of years without a Prenup. Even if she didn't contribute to wealth, she would still be due a settlement of some sort. Most US courts would IMHO view it that way. How much or what would be determined by the circumstances of the divorce. Without she was just an evil bitch from hell and it could be proven, she would get something in proportion to her contribution and the size of his wealth. That's really the brass tacks isn't it?

[Doll]

I am fully aware of that Doll  I never said they were nor did I compare them. But, there is "help" and women don't necessarily leave or tossed in the street "bare-assed" either.

They are "tossed" by their husbands (thanks to the US Government they are not).
 

[Faux Pas]

I wonder if an Affidavit of Support will be enforced in this case and the man will have to pay back. Also, is the Affidavit just for Federal government or State as well? If just federal - then I'm not surprised it is rarely enforced, since all this help mostly comes from the state.

It's too early to know. I suspect the AOS won't come into play. It should but, hasn't as far as I know even been mentioned. Their first court appearance for divorce proceedings is coming up this week, I think. He's a worthless POS. They together 5 years ago after she overstayed a tourist visa. Married over 2 years ago while she was pregnant. They got that worked out and she is currently on a 10 yr conditional GC, one of the conditions was that she be married (3 yrs I think). She's not going to make that but, she's in no danger of being deported. He may not have signed an AOS. They didn't do a K-1

It sounds hokey as I type it but the RW actually loved the guy, he wanted a maid and sex toy. She overstayed the tourist visa to be him. Sad story.

[Faux Pas]

They are "tossed" by their husbands (thanks to the US Government they are not).

So then maybe the bare-assed remark is a bit over dramatic?

[pitbull]

But that's the thing, if Ms. Turkey had came and married Paulie, moved to the US and divorced inside of a couple of years without a Prenup. Even if she didn't contribute to wealth, she would still be due a settlement of some sort. Most US courts would IMHO view it that way. How much or what would be determined by the circumstances of the divorce. Without she was just an evil bitch from hell and it could be proven, she would get something in proportion to her contribution and the size of his wealth. That's really the brass tacks isn't it?

I believe this would be exactly the opposite - she will not have any settlement or alimony, zip, nada. I've posted a link to US divorce laws. I haven't heard of a single case where it happened.  Furthermore, if she is unable to prove "marriage in good faith" and get he permanent gc on her own upon divorce- she will become an illegal and be potentially deported from the US. This is sad but true - those first couple years of marriage before the permanent GC a RW is really 100% at the mercy of an AM husband. And in many cases it get exceptionally ugly.
If anybody has an example that proves your IMHO - I would love to hear it 

[Faux Pas]

I believe this would be exactly the opposite - she will not have any settlement or alimony, zip, nada. I've posted a link to US divorce laws. I haven't heard of a single case where it happened.  Furthermore, if she is unable to prove "marriage in good faith" and get he permanent gc on her own upon divorce- she will become an illegal and be potentially deported from the US. This is sad but true - those first couple years of marriage before the permanent GC a RW is really 100% at the mercy of an AM husband. And in many cases it get exceptionally ugly.
If anybody has an example that proves your IMHO - I would love to hear it 

That is true in this case. He had her scared to death that he would get her deported and he'd keep the child. Despite that, she stayed with him and hoped he would change.

On the other point, even with how the laws are written, a judge is going to make the final determination and women by in large get far more consideration than the men. In that scenario, unless there were some extenuating circumstances, she'll get a settlement of some kind.

[BillyB]

If a marriage is relatively short and there are no children, the courts often refuse to award alimony.

Here's an article below that talks about some of the issues your wikipedia article talked about. Judges factor in if a spouse has financial hardships, not employable, and if they're currently getting an education. In the end they are allowed to use discretion, their own, not the laws, to factor in alimony. Most RW in a short marriage will qualify for all the above and most likely get alimony even if the marriage lasts one day. I married a Ukrainian woman I met in the states. She had a work permit, green card, and spoke good English and had previous work experience but was also taking college classes. I paid 6 months alimony for a 3 year marriage. I'm not only assuming what a website says, I'm speaking from experience. If an FSU woman speaks zero English and has no work permit, she would be getting a generous amount of alimony till she's able to support herself on her own even if the affidavit of support doesn't come into play.
 
http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/financialissues/p/alimony2.htm
 
Paulie should factor in alimony in a future prenup. It should cover all bases and be fair to his future wife to the point she would be happy to sign it. If he chooses to create the stereotypical prenup that the media wants up to believe is one sided, Paulie will learn his prenup will have less value than toilet paper.

[pitbull]

Here's an article below that talks about some of the issues your wikipedia article talked about. Judges factor in if a spouse has financial hardships, not employable, and if they're currently getting an education. In the end they are allowed to use discretion, their own, not the laws, to factor in alimony. Most RW in a short marriage will qualify for all the above and most likely get alimony even if the marriage lasts one day. I married a Ukrainian woman I met in the states. She had a work permit, green card, and spoke good English and had previous work experience but was also taking college classes. I paid 6 months alimony for a 3 year marriage. I'm not only assuming what a website says, I'm speaking from experience. If an FSU woman speaks zero English and has no work permit, she would be getting a generous amount of alimony till she's able to support herself on her own even if the affidavit of support doesn't come into play.
 
http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/financialissues/p/alimony2.htm
 
Paulie should factor in alimony in a future prenup. It should cover all bases and be fair to his future wife to the point she would be happy to sign it. If he chooses to create the stereotypical prenup that the media wants up to believe is one sided, Paulie will learn his prenup will have less value than toilet paper.

3 years is not that short. Did you have a child with that woman in your 3 years of marriage? Actually, I remember you have 2 sons? And the custody is primarily with your ex? I would expect alimony granted together with child support in this case.

[BillyB]

Did you have a child with that woman in your 3 years of marriage?

Yes but that issued is covered with child support. To get alimony my ex's attorneys only arguments were she doesn't speak good English although she did, she's an immigrant, studying in college, and not very employable.
 
Keep in mind, most articles pertaining to alimony that we are reading are geared toward Americans born and raised in America who have an easier time getting a job. Most laws are written in the same fashion. When an American man or woman marries a foreigner, it's different because the scales are tilted in favor of the American to move into financial independence easier than the foreigner so the judge will use his discretion more than the law to determine alimony

[Doll]

I didn't know Billy was married to an immigrant before.

[ML]

I didn't know Billy was married to an immigrant before.

Most everyone in USA is married to an immigrant . . . if you trace back far enough.

[Faux Pas]

Most everyone in USA is married to an immigrant . . . if you trace back far enough.

Not everybody if you wish to get technical about it

[BillyB]

I didn't know Billy was married to an immigrant before.

With the exception of old James Bond movies, the ex was my introduction to the world of FSU women. Although the marriage didn't last, there are many things I still liked about FSU women. Before my ex I wouldn't never considered finding a woman through the internet but after I learned it's one of the best ways to find what you're looking for.

[pitbull]

Yes but that issued is covered with child support. To get alimony my ex's attorneys only arguments were she doesn't speak good English although she did, she's an immigrant, studying in college, and not very employable.
 
Keep in mind, most articles pertaining to alimony that we are reading are geared toward Americans born and raised in America who have an easier time getting a job. Most laws are written in the same fashion. When an American man or woman marries a foreigner, it's different because the scales are tilted in favor of the American to move into financial independence easier than the foreigner so the judge will use his discretion more than the law to determine alimony

Well it makes all the difference. A 3 year mariage which results in 2 under school aged kids, a mother is given primary custody and she is a student at the tisme of divorce-hell yeah, she would be given alimony, RW or AW.
It totally matches my previous quote
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[GQBlues]

...It sounds hokey as I type it but the RW actually loved the guy, he wanted a maid and sex toy. She overstayed the tourist visa to be him. Sad story.

Sounds a lot like a current situation we have here, FP, although minus a child.

He: a US citizen of Chinese national. They met and lived in Beijing for 5 years, then moved to LA. Married 6 years. He has a business with his father. She never went to school or worked, never even got a driver's license. He basically made sure she didn't wandered off too far beyond his shadow.

She's 31 years old now. No degree, no work experience. No hireable skills. No DL, No, no, zip, nada.

He decided she's old news and would like a 'new' wife, so one day when his father was in town, they spoke with her about a divorce. Long story short, he wrote her a check (about enough to get an old car or a 6-month apartment lease in a rundown neighborhood - nothing else).

She's currently living with her long time friend from the city they grew up in back in Russia. The friend is married to an AM. They don't know what to do with/for her at this time. She doesn't want to go back to Russia but she's utterly without any skills or credentials, etc...other than work retail.

Tough, tough deal. I can only imagine this will be tougher had she have to worry about a child, or two...

[BillyB]

It totally matches my previous quote

Your previous quote gave people the impression alimony in a short term marriage is only given if their is children are involved. The link I provided mentions many factors involved in alimony. Children is not the only factor. A single RW in a short marriage with no kids, limited English, no work permit, and no green card, is not going to be thrown out onto the street.

[pitbull]

Your previous quote gave people the impression alimony in a short term marriage is only given if their is children are involved. The link I provided mentions many factors involved in alimony. Children is not the only factor. A single RW in a short marriage with no kids, limited English, no work permit, and no green card, is not going to be thrown out onto the street.

Yes, this is my point and this is generally the case, AW or RW, or very close to that (see GQ's post). This is why I asked for personal examples. When you gave yours and ommitted the 2-kid factor, it mislead the public 
 

[ML]

PB, Billy was originally (I think) trying to point out there is a difference between alimony and child support payments.

An order of child support payments is not always accompanied by an order of alimony.

[pitbull]

An order of child support payments is not always accompanied by an order of alimony.

Definitely. The article that I quoted points that when the children are very little and one of the parents gets primary custody, there is often alimony in addition to child support, even in case of a short marriage. It is benefitial for very small children to have a primary caregiver and a primary residence - hence support to the parent. I imagine that if the kids are older alimoty would be less common.
So, an order of child support payments is indeed not always accompanied by an order of alimony. However, in a short marriage without kids, there rarely is an order of alimony. period.
 
 

[noelscot]

I still don't see anything wrong with "premarital support".
Why not?

The reason "Why not?" is that a lot of the men involved with the MOB pursuit are rich. Now they want to keep their money at all costs. Thus the mind of the greedy money-lender emerges as dominant in their decision making and personal relationships.


 


 

[Russian_Bear]

1) Do not provide money to any woman or her family before a marriage; except for the money needed for wedding preparation and her transportation to be with you.

I absolutely agree with Doll about some financial support before marriage. What sum we are talking about? It seems that some FSU women force american guys to pay thousands of dollars. Yes, of course, one must have eyes to see if some woman tries to cheat you. It is always seen. But if we are talking about a woman who you really love and who is hardworking and works for living here. Is it a "heroic deed" to give her some money. Even if some would be spent for her kid. I repeat, we are talking, I am sure, not about thousands of dollars. Just to give her a few hundreds of them - the sum you normally spend within a couple of days visiting a supermarket, but the sum that would be enough for a month living for her? Is it a lot or is it huge money for lots of you? Is it a lot for a beloved woman to make her life easier, even a little bit? Or you buy diamonds or splendid cars for her, or some real estate? It is not her ( an abstract woman's ) guilt that any job is badly paid here. Yeah... I am really shocked by such your greed...
For some months I had no possibility to write anything here ( because of my work and... ), but I could read sometimes. What women are better ( or something like that ) was a subject for discussion.. I don't want to say anything wrong about american women. As for FSU women.. I don't mean scammers or pro-daters who earn their money using some of you.I mean an ordinary woman and who will love you truly, I mean that only woman for you. So, if you meet such one, believe me, you will become the happiest man ( it will seem to you that you are and that will be true! ). No other woman will love you and take care of you as much as FSU women do. I am happily married for a couple dozens of years and I know what I talk about You had never had such a faithful person next to you before - a person who would never leave you whatever happens. No, I don't mean devotion of a hungry dog that you feed and that looks at you with widely open eyes and mouth ( you have to go to Thailand to get such ones ). Yes, FSU women can show their temper ( character ) as well. But they also can love as much as..  I can't even compare their love with anything ( otherwise it would be too poetical or grandiloquent ). The only thing you need is to meet such woman - the only one for you. Just, as Roxette has sung, listen to your heart..And, guys, be careful with all kind of agencies offering you some brides.. A lot of them just try to put your money into their pockets, making you pay for everything. Try to find on your own. Yes, it is a hard way, but it is worth to try. Ask everything you want to know about FSU women ( not all of their secrets I am told though   ). I'll be glad to help you guys

[Lily]

Russian Bear -    we don't have many Russian men here.
 
I like your post    Please write here more 

[BillyB]

However, in a short marriage without kids, there rarely is an order of alimony. period.

I can agree with you there but there are exceptions. Short marriages without kids between American men and foreign women exist but I don't see foreign women on the streets homeless. A judge would lose his job if he started putting disadvantaged foreign women on the streets.

For some months I had no possibility to write anything here ( because of my work and... ), but I could read sometimes.

    ). I'll be glad to help you guys

With the amount of help we need, you are going to have to quit your job. Showing up here once a month is not enough.


I agree with you and Doll it's okay to help a woman before marriage. I did that with my wife although she never asked for help. If a guy is engaged to a woman, that's almost the same as being married.

[Gator]

Question.   Of those RW who divorce and do not earn enough income to support themselves, how many rely on government aid vs. their network of friends and their own sense of survival?  A single woman without kids will not qualify for Section 8 housing, and even if she did I can not envision the pride of a RW agreeing to Section 8 housing.