Question for members in the process and those who have been there and done that

[Faux Pas]

 
Why so grumpy? Not getting any tonight?

I'm never grumpy Billyb and I get plenty  You hate that don't you? Why are you spending so time time spreading bad advice on the forum? As I recall, you stated after your wife arrived we wouldn't see much of you. Change of plan?

[Ade]

I'm never grumpy Billyb and I get plenty  You hate that don't you? Why are you spending so time time spreading bad advice on the forum? As I recall, you stated after your wife arrived we wouldn't see much of you. Change of plan?

Out of Viagra again.

[GoodOlBoy]

Two adults, 40 and 62, can have a good time together and want to meet again.  We did.  It started with good feelings and grew eventually to emotional connection after several meetings . 

Gator..... Your post wreaks of desperation. Desperation to try and assure yourself and others around you that you finally "got it right this time".
 
Only time will tell.
 
What your own son said to Rivardco (Zon), is quite revealing.
 
Sorry to say it, but given your propensity to divorce and run (serial divorcer), I quite frankly don't give your current marriage any more of a chance for success than your previous ones.
 
GOB
 

[Gator]

Sorry to say it, but given your propensity to divorce and run (serial divorcer), I quite frankly don't give your current marriage any more of a chance for success than your previous ones.
 

Thank you GOB for the kind wishes for your fellow man.  You are a prince of a man.  Such support and optimism preempts the need for further comment. 
 
Before I go, I will add that my Cossack princess's English is improving dramatically.  Two days ago she passed the Florida DMV driver's written test.  In fact her score was 100%, no mistakes.  Next is the driving test. 
 
I challenge you to take 5 minutes and complete this DMV online practice test for road rules.  Please tell us how you did (there is another for road signs):
 
http://www.highschooldriver.com/learner_permit_rules.shtml
 
 
 

[GoodOlBoy]

I challenge you to take 5 minutes and complete this DMV online practice test for road rules.

Sh!t dude, I have a Florida motorcycle endorsement. 
Try to pass that one the first time. 
 
GOB

[Muzh]

I am hesitant to enter the discussion because the two choices given for answers suggest a bias:     
 
 
The correct answer is neither of these, which frankly sound like teenagers in heat.  I have a news bulletin for you.   Two adults, 40 and 62, can have a good time together and want to meet again.  We did.  It started with good feelings and grew eventually to emotional connection after several meetings . 

Honestly, can anyone think of another alternative? Like ESP?

What else is there if you CANNOT communicate with each other? Stare into each others eyes and hope for osmosis?

We corresponded for several months before meeting, and we spoke using an interpreter several times. Thus we had a reasonable concept of the other's history and goals.  I had a good feeling before meeting her. Our time together was splendid, except she thought me not serious at first.   We did miss having intellectual conversations.
 

I learned a saying from my grandmother: The paper can hold as much as you can write on it.

[Gator]

Sh!t dude, I have a Florida motorcycle endorsement. 
Try to pass that one the first time. 
 
GOB

As expected you ducked the challenge.

[Gator]

Muzh,
 
You must sleep very well feeling that the way you live your life is better than the way other people choose to live.  Your arrogance comes across strongly, and there are a few others at RWD who talk that talk of being superior.
 
Have you ever thought that maybe people are just different rather than better-worse.   Some people enjoy adventure, even volunteering for the more adventurous duties in Vietnam.  Maybe joining the UN and working in areas without toilet paper and enjoying it.  Maybe taking trips to Afghanistan and Ethiopia as a tourist and later the Soviet Union .  Maybe even risking their house by signing a note to the bank to raise money to capitalize a business venture.   Maybe they recognize a diamond in the field and pursue her even though she is not keen about moving and her English is limited to 100 words, knowing it will take years before each knows the other is indeed the ideal partner, but meanwhile thoroughly enjoying the adventure.
 
In contrast, other people are risk averse.  They choose to work for the government and believe the world would be better if there were even more government.  They would never travel alone to the FSU without a guide and local support and meet different women (meaning there were periods when they were totally on their own without a means to communicate).
 
Is one man better than the other?  No.  Just different, and not wanting to live the life of the other man.
 
Muzh, you have a nice day.  And stop expressing so  much idealistic contempt.    It makes you sound like some others here who express their elitism.  You implied in your OP that you did not want to harass people.  Did you forget already, or is it just your nature? 

BTW, I have lived long enough to notice arrogant people grow up to become grumpy old men.   You want that?
 
Today I must go to the Social Security Office.    And later we visit the university administrative staff about an insurance hassle, all because I chose to marry a RW.  And tonight her cousin and his wife are arriving in the USA to visit for a few days.  He is an electrician and I have planned some home jobs to do with him.  Later in June there is another Russian entourage arriving, for a month, and this will be the fourth such group, all different.   Such happens when you marry a woman who was a big fish in not a small pond. 
 
I do not seek good wishes about my marriage; however, I would appreciate your little prayers about my sanity during these visits when the house becomes Little Russia.   I really need to learn Russian, but I am the arrogant American who believes it is her job to speak English.  There is arrogance in all of us, with some more than others, much more.
 

[Boethius]

Muzh,
 
You must sleep very well feeling that the way you live your life is better than the way other people choose to live.  Your arrogance comes across strongly, and there are a few others at RWD who talk that talk of being superior.


Have you ever thought that maybe people are just different rather than better-worse.   Some people enjoy adventure, even volunteering for the more adventurous duties in Vietnam.  Maybe joining the UN and working in areas without toilet paper and enjoying it.  Maybe taking trips to Afghanistan and Ethiopia as a tourist and later the Soviet Union .  Maybe even risking their house by signing a note to the bank to raise money to capitalize a business venture.   Maybe they recognize a diamond in the field and pursue her even though she is not keen about moving and her English is limited to 100 words, knowing it will take years before each knows the other is indeed the ideal partner, but meanwhile thoroughly enjoying the adventure.
 
In contrast, other people are risk averse.  They choose to work for the government and believe the world would be better if there were even more government.  They would never travel alone to the FSU without a guide and local support and meet different women (meaning there were periods when they were totally on their own without a means to communicate).
 
Is one man better than the other?  No.  Just different, and not wanting to live the life of the other man.
 
Muzh, you have a nice day.  And stop expressing so  much idealistic contempt.    It makes you sound like some others here who express their elitism.  You implied in your OP that you did not want to harass people.  Did you forget already, or is it just your nature? 

BTW, I have lived long enough to notice arrogant people grow up to become grumpy old men.   You want that?
 
Today I must go to the Social Security Office.    And later we visit the university administrative staff about an insurance hassle, all because I chose to marry a RW.  And tonight her cousin and his wife are arriving in the USA to visit for a few days.  He is an electrician and I have planned some home jobs to do with him.  Later in June there is another Russian entourage arriving, for a month, and this will be the fourth such group, all different.   Such happens when you marry a woman who was a big fish in not a small pond. 
 
I do not seek good wishes about my marriage; however, I would appreciate your little prayers about my sanity during these visits when the house becomes Little Russia.   I really need to learn Russian, but I am the arrogant American who believes it is her job to speak English.  There is arrogance in all of us, with some more than others, much more.

We must have read different posts.   He didn't post anything that suggested his way was better, just that he didn't understand how couples could have the basis for a solid relationship without the ability to communicate.   But rather than address that, yet again, when a poster disagreed with you, you felt compelled to demean that poster.  Not short?  Nope.  Oh, wait!  He works for gasp!  government!!!  A lower life form sucking on the metaphorical teat of the real men in the world.  He must have a boring life, etc.
 
How did the emotional connection develop in the absence of a common language?  What were the ways beyond language that you communicated?  IIRC, there was also another marriage in between that connection (not intended as a negative, just that the emotional connection was not strong enough to be sustained by both of you).  How did that change in the interim?  Whether you wish to answer or not is irrelevant, it is just that I believe this is what the question was getting at.

[Muzh]

Muzh,
 
You must sleep very well feeling that the way you live your life is better than the way other people choose to live.  Your arrogance comes across strongly, and there are a few others at RWD who talk that talk of being superior.

Actually, it is getting tougher to get up in the morning. But thanks for the concern.
 
 

Have you ever thought that maybe people are just different rather than better-worse.   Some people enjoy adventure, even volunteering for the more adventurous duties in Vietnam.  Maybe joining the UN and working in areas without toilet paper and enjoying it.  Maybe taking trips to Afghanistan and Ethiopia as a tourist and later the Soviet Union .  Maybe even risking their house by signing a note to the bank to raise money to capitalize a business venture.   Maybe they recognize a diamond in the field and pursue her even though she is not keen about moving and her English is limited to 100 words, knowing it will take years before each knows the other is indeed the ideal partner, but meanwhile thoroughly enjoying the adventure.
 
 

 
There was supposed to be a yawining gif here but it didn't work.
 

In contrast, other people are risk averse.  They choose to work for the government and believe the world would be better if there were even more government.  They would never travel alone to the FSU without a guide and local support and meet different women (meaning there were periods when they were totally on their own without a means to communicate).
 
Is one man better than the other?  No.  Just different, and not wanting to live the life of the other man.
 

LMAO
 
I've dealt with them risk takers environmental consultants. I'll let you in a little secret, they had to kiss my ass if they wanted any kind of approval. Talking about arrogance and smugness. Once they would leave my office they were as tame as lambs. You want to know why? Because if they wanted to get paid by their customers they had to agree to my conditions as a representative of NYS.
 
And these are your heroes? Scam artists more like it.
 
FYI If you ever had to offer consulting that would require some federal regulations, most probably you had to read stuff that I wrote.
 
Risk taker, ha!
 

Muzh, you have a nice day.  And stop expressing so  much idealistic contempt.    It makes you sound like some others here who express their elitism.  You implied in your OP that you did not want to harass people.  Did you forget already, or is it just your nature? 

Let's get something straight, shall we? I don't sound like an elitist. I AM part of the elite. And very proud of being one. It means that I made my choice to enlighten myself so I could help others. And you? Ah yes, to make money.
 
Call me elitist anytime. It would be an honor.
 

BTW, I have lived long enough to notice arrogant people grow up to become grumpy old men.   You want that?
 
[/qoute]
 
LMAO Man, this is a gimme. Let's leave it at that.
 

Today I must go to the Social Security Office.    And later we visit the university administrative staff about an insurance hassle, all because I chose to marry a RW.  And tonight her cousin and his wife are arriving in the USA to visit for a few days.  He is an electrician and I have planned some home jobs to do with him.  Later in June there is another Russian entourage arriving, for a month, and this will be the fourth such group, all different.   Such happens when you marry a woman who was a big fish in not a small pond. 
 
I do not seek good wishes about my marriage; however, I would appreciate your little prayers about my sanity during these visits when the house becomes Little Russia.   I really need to learn Russian, but I am the arrogant American who believes it is her job to speak English.  There is arrogance in all of us, with some more than others, much more.
 

Yeah, whatever.

[Gator]

Muzh,
 
I believe you missed this part of my post when I contrasted  two different men: 
 

Is one man better than the other?  No.  Just different, and not wanting to live the life of the other man.

If I hit a nerve, it was unintentional.  I am happy with my life and I am sure you are the same.  One difference is that I do not question your choices, either  directly or by implication.   How could I?  I know nothing of you personally.   
 
You introduced a topic and invited people to respond.  Your invitation was not that of an investigator because you failed to ask open ended questions and you revealed your opinions in your multiple choice answers.   
 
As stated, I hesitated to contribute to your thread.  However,  I decided that maybe you were serious about learning what was involved in dating women who spoke limited English, particularly the obstacles and  the implications.
I gave a personal account of my specific experience.  And I was the only one who dared face the likes of your mob, thinking that maybe you had some intellectual curiosity.
 
I was wrong.  Instead of exhibiting intellectual curiosity, you showed elitist contempt via the implications embedded in your remarks.   
 
Your topic could have evolved into a interesting discussion about what is love.  I always thought love an emotion, a collective sum of various feelings  synthesized  subconsciously, and manifested in two people who could be different in many ways.  We never got that far.   Good job of advancing the discussion!
 
As I have stated before, marrying a RW is not normal behavior.  Just because she speaks fluent English does not make anyone normal.  I agree that such would help to keep someone towards the less risky end of the continuum.  However I detect hypersensitivity, control, etc.  among some RWD, and how do such factor?   

[Gator]

You implied in your OP that you did not want to harass people.  Did you forget already, or is it just your nature? 

Thanks for answering:
 

I've dealt with them risk takers environmental consultants. I'll let you in a little secret, they had to kiss my ass if they wanted any kind of approval..... Once they would leave my office they were as tame as lambs. You want to know why? Because if they wanted to get paid by their customers they had to agree to my conditions as a representative of NYS.

You seem to relish it.   
 
I have been before regulators many times.  Most were good ;people, interested in getting something done given limitations expressed by the regulations.  For some, thank goodness for America there is due process and a judge. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

As stated, I hesitated to contribute to your thread.  However,  I decided that maybe you were serious about learning what was involved in dating women who spoke limited English, particularly the obstacles and  the implications.
I gave a personal account of my specific experience.  And I was the only one who dared face the likes of your mob, thinking that maybe you had some intellectual curiosity.
 

[BillyB]

Why are you spending so time time spreading bad advice on the forum?

 
I like spreading bad advice because it's the only way to piss off people who spread good advice. So far it's working. I also get to fulfil another fantasy of watching men get their panties all bunched up. Turns me on.
 
 

As I recall, you stated after your wife arrived we wouldn't see much of you. Change of plan?

 
If you recall, my wife is attending college so she hits the books at night instead of me. No pun intended. Since she's busy, I have more time to come torture the men from the RWD Coalition of Those Who Offer Good Advice.
 
 
Before my wife attended college, I was coming here once every two weeks average. Look at your and my profile. You have nearly double the posts as a married man than I when I was single. You're concerned about those who enter a relationship with a language barrier when you have a wall barrier in your own house between you and your wife.
 
 
Are you proud? Ask yourself if your marriage one that most men desire? If not, make some changes before helping mine and others with our relationships. Most men would take a marriage with a woman they can't talk to but spend time with over having a marriage full of meaniful conversations with a woman they can't see through a wall. It's also hard to hear that meaningful conversation through a wall.
 
 
Before the usual suspects start fights,.... oops too late, let's try to get back on track. Try to attack the post that you disagree with instead of the poster and we'll have a productive debate on a very important issue.

[Daveman]

...[size=78%]when you have a wall barrier in your own house between you and your wife.[/size]
 

And you know this, how? 

 

Before the usual suspects start fights,.... oops too late, let's try to get back on track. Try to attack the post that you disagree with instead of the poster and we'll have a productive debate on a very important issue.

Excellent idea..
And I'll add - keep spouses/marriages out of the loop as well. 


Everyone keep it above the belt...

[Gator]

      Yep, he got me!

[Gator]

We must have read different posts.   He didn't post anything that suggested his way was better, just that he didn't understand how couples could have the basis for a solid relationship without the ability to communicate.

 
 
Nice try counselor; however, your client spoke after your post and revealed more.  Next time when taking a case you should advise your clients to remain silent and let you do the talking for them. 

....you felt compelled to demean that poster.  Not short?  Nope.  Oh, wait!  He works for gasp!  government!!!   A lower life form sucking on the metaphorical teat of the real men in the world.  He must have a boring life, etc.

I said none of that, nothing close.  It is you who made the inference.  What I did say, and you seemingly ignored, is the following when contrasting the willingness of two men to accept risks:   "Is one man better than the other?  No.  Just different, and not wanting to live the life of the other man."   
 
If I were demeaning  Muzh as you accused, I would not have made that statement.  I would have said he was inferior.  You are too smart not to notice that.  So why did you?  Your style of twisting facts and advocacy does not contribute to civil discussions.  Not only does it throw the discussion off track, it.........

How did the emotional connection develop in the absence of a common language?   What were the ways beyond language that you communicated?  IIRC, there was also another marriage in between that connection (not intended as a
negative, just that the emotional connection was not strong enough to be sustained by both of you).  How did that change in the interim? 

Excellent questions, and expressed in a diplomatic style that would foment discussion among those curious to learn..  I was about to answer them until I read your:  "Whether you wish to answer or not is irrelevant...."  That's a good one. 
 
RWD used to be a fun place, a gentleman's club with ladies invited.  Stop in, have a beer, listen to a joke, discuss current events, tell about a real life experience, and help someone with a serious issue.  Today there is too much deep-seated ill will.  I am weary of it, too weary for words.

[Boethius]

Whether you wish to answer or not is irrelevant...."  That's a good one. 

What I meant was that it was your response would be irrelevant to the the type of issue Muzh was getting at, not that your answer would be irrelevant. 


In terms of you, personally, I didn't mean it in a negative way but rather, that the way in which the question was framed was very personal, and not really anyone's business.  Yes, in retrospect, it could have been worded more clearly.  Chalk it up to multitasking.

[GoodOlBoy]

RWD used to be a fun place, a gentleman's club with ladies invited.  Stop in, have a beer, listen to a joke, discuss current events, tell about a real life experience, and help someone with a serious issue. 

I think Dan has already addressed this misguided notion of yours.   
But just in case you forgot Gator:
 

Here's my fricken problem with this spat

I consider this more of a forum for men. Like meeting up at the local watering hole and solve the world problems with a few adult beverages. I thought of it as a place where men could let loose a little like you would on poker night with the guys. Apparently not.

>>I consider this more of a forum for men.<<

You could not be more wrong.

>>And low and behold we have a woman moderating parts of the forum. This wont work. On top of that Boethius is extremely bias. It comes out in every issue that comes up. She needs to be moderating the section for the questions to women not here.<<

I misspoke above - you CAN be more wrong - and you are.

- Dan

GOB
 
 

[Ooooops]

Today I must go to the Social Security Office.    And later we visit the university administrative staff about an insurance hassle, all because I chose to marry a RW.

Why your marriage choice causing you this insurance hassle, may I ask?   

[GoodOlBoy]

And later we visit the university administrative staff about an insurance hassle, all because I chose to marry a RW.

   

Why your marriage choice causing you this insurance hassle, may I ask?

Ooooops, since our esteemed elderly member has gone AWOL, let me take a wild stab at this one.
Maybe the "insurance problem" has something to do with a prescription (refill)?     

 

 GOB

[Ozzimusician]

Wow, things break down quickly here.  Lively stuff!

On the topic - communication is over-rated.  Faux Pas - hmm I think I recognise your unmistakable demeanour from somewhere...

Does some kind of intellectual communication make a marriage?  No.  Do you need deep and meaningful conversations to fall in love?  No.

Do you need to be able to tell each other some of the things you need and want in a relationship?  Yes - but a translation on google will do that for you.

All relationships/marriages are a risk going in - the truth is not revealed until months and months of living together.  So what makes the difference when choosing to jump in?  I will say, in my opinion, not "communication".  For me it was just a sense of the other person's character.  If you are observant a person's character reveals itself in a number of non-direct and not so obvious ways.  Character compatibility.  Rarely do people actually show their true nature through words - the ability to lie and deceive is one of the truly defining aspects of our species.

[Gator]

Why your marriage choice causing you this insurance hassle, may I ask?

First, I wish to welcome you back to RWD.  You are a breath of fresh air.
 
Regarding the insurance matter, it is for my stepdaughter.  I did not just marry a RW, I acquired a tribe.      
 
The 24-yo stepdaughter is here on a student visa and doing well.  The university requires her to have specific health insurance coverage.  I have a good family policy; however. it does not meet the university's requirements in some areas. e. g. cover the expenses of repatriating her in case of serious illness.  The same goes for her remains.  I argue that we don't need that as she will be treated here.  So far I am losing to the rigid mindset of the university bureaucrats.   
There is always something that needs to be done.  However, it is my responsibility. 

[Gator]

Does some kind of intellectual communication make a marriage?  No.  Do you need deep and meaningful conversations to fall in love?  No.

Do you need to be able to tell each other some of the things you need and want in a relationship?  Yes - but a translation on google will do that for you.

All relationships/marriages are a risk going in - the truth is not revealed until months and months of living together.  So what makes the difference when choosing to jump in?  I will say, in my opinion, not "communication".  For me it was just a sense of the other person's character.  If you are observant a person's character reveals itself in a number of non-direct and not so obvious ways.  Character compatibility.  Rarely do people actually show their true nature through words - the ability to lie and deceive is one of the truly defining aspects of our species.

Excellent answer. 
 
My point is that if I had limited myself to RW fluent in English, I would have missed a glorious woman, a real thoroughbred too.
 
However, upon taking that path I exposed myself to added risk and I encountered many obstacles.  I was willing to accept the challenge, especially considering that I focus more on journeys than destinations.   
 
It took much time to sort out everything, and even 7  years later the process continues.  If she had spoken English, our relationship would have progressed much faster.  Most men do not have the luxury of time, and if not I could never recommend that they undertake a language barrier.
 
Your comment about deceit in words is especially true, and I feel honesty is not as prevalent in FSU people as in Americans.  Nevertheless, in our limited English and Russian, my wife expressed some words to me in our first months together that made me believe in her honesty.  As it turns out, she is honest, but to a fault.   

[Faux Pas]

Wow, things break down quickly here.  Lively stuff!

On the topic - communication is over-rated.  Faux Pas - hmm I think I recognise your unmistakable demeanour from somewhere...

Does some kind of intellectual communication make a marriage?  No.  Do you need deep and meaningful conversations to fall in love?  No.

Do you need to be able to tell each other some of the things you need and want in a relationship?  Yes - but a translation on google will do that for you.

All relationships/marriages are a risk going in - the truth is not revealed until months and months of living together.  So what makes the difference when choosing to jump in?  I will say, in my opinion, not "communication".  For me it was just a sense of the other person's character.  If you are observant a person's character reveals itself in a number of non-direct and not so obvious ways.  Character compatibility.  Rarely do people actually show their true nature through words - the ability to lie and deceive is one of the truly defining aspects of our species.

Yup, I am the same everywhere, yesterday, today and tomorrow 

Really? So you married a woman you couldn't communicate with without Google translate? You know, I can see where many men would love nothing else than to have a wife they didn't have to listen to, couldn't communicate with. Just a woman to iron the shirts, cook the meals and be the nightly sperm receptacle. It does appeal to many in this particular pursuit. I suppose a few of them might be able to make a marriage work over the long haul but, I have a feeling, most won't. Once she is able to understand, and at some point she will be and realizes what a dense man she married, she'll probably be gone.