Question for members in the process and those who have been there and done that

[Gator]

Wow, things break down quickly here.  Lively stuff!

There are a few people who seem to relish rancor, to belittle RWD members, or to disrupt rather than contribute.  Nevertheless, a recent poll shows that most RWD members prefer to be informed and to read stories about meeting and living with RW.    Ozzie, stay the course.

[GoodOlBoy]

There are a few people who seem to relish rancor, to belittle RWD members, or to disrupt rather than contribute. 

"There are a few people who seem to relish rancor, to belittle RWD members, or to disrupt the fantasy rather than contribute to the fantasy".
 
Fixed it for you. 
 
GOB

[Ozzimusician]

Yup, I am the same everywhere, yesterday, today and tomorrow 

Really? So you married a woman you couldn't communicate with without Google translate? You know, I can see where many men would love nothing else than to have a wife they didn't have to listen to, couldn't communicate with. Just a woman to iron the shirts, cook the meals and be the nightly sperm receptacle. It does appeal to many in this particular pursuit. I suppose a few of them might be able to make a marriage work over the long haul but, I have a feeling, most won't. Once she is able to understand, and at some point she will be and realizes what a dense man she married, she'll probably be gone.

Oh, a troll I see.  Well - just so you know, her English is pretty good, my Russian also is around intermediate - we have communicated with care, love and respect.  The things that really matter - now that our languages are meeting - we have some interesting chats about politics Australian and Russian and other things.  Yet, still its not the talking that bonds us - but the "doing together" of the life business.

Gator - I understand - don't worry I won't be baited by simple trolls - I actually come here to have discussions on a topic that interests me, well because I am part of an international marriage.  I am sure I will find it here - amongst all the trolling and bs and so forth. 

[Ozzimusician]

"There are a few people who seem to relish rancor, to belittle RWD members, or to disrupt the fantasy rather than contribute to the fantasy".
 
Fixed it for you. 
 
GOB

I agree in some contexts - I find much of what is said about FSUW and this international dating game to be a load of MOB agency hype and bs.  I also see people steaming toward trainwrecks and the fantasy purveyors shovelling coal into the engine as fast as possible.

But the other extreme is the naysayers and the know it alls who believe anything other than what they say or believe is fantasy... which are you GOB?  The real deal or the show pony?

[GoodOlBoy]

I agree in some contexts - I find much of what is said about FSUW and this international dating game to be a load of MOB agency hype and bs.  I also see people steaming toward trainwrecks and the fantasy purveyors shovelling coal into the engine as fast as possible.

But the other extreme is the naysayers and the know it alls who believe anything other than what they say or believe is fantasy... which are you GOB?  The real deal or the show pony?

Color me stupid, but I personally don't consider the fantasy perpetuators as "mainstream RWD" whatsoever? 
 
Also, labeling people "extreme" who totally reject advices from members who spout off advice when they have had multiple failed relationships (marriages), chase teenage FSU girls, go through FSUW like a roll of toilet paper, pursue "obscene" age gap relationships, etc. is at best strange to me?
 
JMHO, But maybe this is the group of people that should be labeled "extreme" on RWD (if labeling is necessary).
 
GOB

[Ozzimusician]

members who spout off advice when they have had multiple failed relationships (marriages), chase teenage FSU girls, go through FSUW like a roll of toilet paper, pursue "obscene" age gap relationships, etc. is at best strange to me?
 
JMHO, But maybe this is the group of people that should be labeled "extreme" on RWD (if labeling is necessary).
 
GOB

Can't help but agree with you here...

[Faux Pas]

I agree in some contexts - I find much of what is said about FSUW and this international dating game to be a load of MOB agency hype and bs.  I also see people steaming toward trainwrecks and the fantasy purveyors shovelling coal into the engine as fast as possible.

But the other extreme is the naysayers and the know it alls who believe anything other than what they say or believe is fantasy... which are you GOB?  The real deal or the show pony?

And where exactly do you classify yourself?

I am hardly a troll but, I do call them like I see them. If I state something you take umbrage with, perhaps you should consider it closer or ignore it altogether. Personally, I don't care which. If I state something you feel you can refute, then refute it. Calling me a troll because you can't challenge my statement, quite simply means you have no debating skills and lost the volley

[Chicagoguy]

I have been married for 4 years now. My wife couldn't speak any English when we met on the Internet. She wrote me first. But for the next 1.5 years she wrote me a long letter in English every single day. We met once in Moscow and once in Turkey.
It would take her about 2 hours to read and write her and my letters. Such determination ! But we couldn't be happier. She is a gem.
In spite of our success I do not recommend this path. It is hard work and takes a lot of patience - of which I have little. We are both older than most here so English language was not common in her school at that time.

[ML]

Ochka had fair to good English when she arrived nearly 2 years ago.  Two semesters in Intensive English program at a major university moved her to the upper end of the good range.  She has no problems in her subsequent two completed semesters of graduate math courses.  But the vocabulary used in math is rather small, while at the same time being rather specialized.  A lot of equations, of course.

We have virtually zero problems in understanding each other on a daily basis.  Only about twice a week does she ask me what a word means.  Usually something we hear on TV.

But when we are with others, I realize there are still pronunciation and accent problems.  That's because I find myself acting as 'interpreter.'  She says something . . . I see others looking somewhat puzzled . . . and I quickly pronounce the word that I know was a problem or use a synonym.  I do the same in reverse when I know she did not understand something that was said.

I think I would have a big problem in trying to deal with a woman who had no or very little English.  I only met with a couple such during my time in FSU and I did not enjoy the meetings at all.  To think of living full time with someone in that category . . . I can't even imagine.

[Gator]

I have been married for 4 years now. My wife couldn't speak any English when we met on the Internet. She wrote me first. But for the next 1.5 years she wrote me a long letter in English every single day. We met once in Moscow and once in Turkey.
It would take her about 2 hours to read and write her and my letters. Such determination ! But we couldn't be happier. She is a gem.

It also revealed her genuine interest in you.  I believe a good indicator of a RW's sincerity is to ask her to learn more English by taking lessons.  These women are busy with little free time, and if she takes the lessons and shows improvement, that is a good sign.
 
My wife wrote short letters that somehow communicated much.  One time I was planning to travel for a long period and  would not be able to write her.   I wrote a defensive, apologetic and long explanation.  Her reply was four words:  "Do not forget me."
 

In spite of our success I do not recommend this path. It is hard work and takes a lot of patience - of which I have little. We are both older than most here so English language was not common in her school at that time.

Also, the limited communication prevents her from making good friends with AW, forcing her to hang out with RW who are not as available.   It is difficult for both the husband and wife.

[Gator]

We have virtually zero problems in understanding each other on a daily basis.  Only about twice a week does she ask me what a word means.  Usually something we hear on TV.

Understanding has two meanings.  There is understanding the words she uses.  And there is a deeper understanding,  i. e. what she means, what it implies, and (the biggest) what belief she is vocalizing and whether you accept and respect that belief.
 
Two people may unknowingly respect each other's values if not identify with them.  However, if one can not understand the other's words, one can not confirm the deeper understanding.  Been there, done that and it led to one of our breakups.

[GQBlues]

I have been married for 4 years now. My wife couldn't speak any English when we met on the Internet. She wrote me first. But for the next 1.5 years she wrote me a long letter in English every single day. We met once in Moscow and once in Turkey.

It would take her about 2 hours to read and write her and my letters. Such determination ! But we couldn't be happier. She is a gem.
In spite of our success I do not recommend this path. It is hard work and takes a lot of patience - of which I have little. We are both older than most here so English language was not common in her school at that time.

Good post! Totally unpretentious!
 
I had taken your last advice even further before and always will....to eliminate all women, especially those in a man's immediate surrounding, to chase women who not only hail from a different country, culture and least of all language - have to be taken with extreme cautioned apprehension. To carelessly advise someone to pursue women who doesn't speak a common language, much less recommend - on top of everything else, is IMO, being callous and foolish.
 
There is a huge population of single slavic women already living here in the USA - of different ages and looks - looking for relationships. Just like in FSU. The caveat is, one needs to be as prospectively inviting as all the other men around him are.

[Muzh]

Muzh,
 
I believe you missed this part of my post when I contrasted  two different men: 
 
If I hit a nerve, it was unintentional.  I am happy with my life and I am sure you are the same.  One difference is that I do not question your choices, either  directly or by implication.   How could I?  I know nothing of you personally.   
 
You introduced a topic and invited people to respond.  Your invitation was not that of an investigator because you failed to ask open ended questions and you revealed your opinions in your multiple choice answers.   
 
As stated, I hesitated to contribute to your thread.  However,  I decided that maybe you were serious about learning what was involved in dating women who spoke limited English, particularly the obstacles and  the implications.
I gave a personal account of my specific experience.  And I was the only one who dared face the likes of your mob, thinking that maybe you had some intellectual curiosity.
 
I was wrong.  Instead of exhibiting intellectual curiosity, you showed elitist contempt via the implications embedded in your remarks.   
 
Your topic could have evolved into a interesting discussion about what is love.  I always thought love an emotion, a collective sum of various feelings  synthesized  subconsciously, and manifested in two people who could be different in many ways.  We never got that far.   Good job of advancing the discussion!
 
As I have stated before, marrying a RW is not normal behavior.  Just because she speaks fluent English does not make anyone normal.  I agree that such would help to keep someone towards the less risky end of the continuum.  However I detect hypersensitivity, control, etc.  among some RWD, and how do such factor?

Oh boy.

Okay, it's Monday and I just read this.

I didn't miss anything. Even your back pedaling and foot shuffling.

Yes I introduce a topic and asked for responses. That doesn't mean that what you respond is the law. I just made comments to your response.

So, if you are having nerve aches I suggest you look into Lyrica^TM

[Muzh]

 
 
Nice try counselor; however, your client spoke after your post and revealed more.  Next time when taking a case you should advise your clients to remain silent and let you do the talking for them.  I said none of that, nothing close.  It is you who made the inference.  What I did say, and you seemingly ignored, is the following when contrasting the willingness of two men to accept risks:   "Is one man better than the other?  No.  Just different, and not wanting to live the life of the other man."   
 
If I were demeaning  Muzh as you accused, I would not have made that statement.  I would have said he was inferior.  You are too smart not to notice that.  So why did you?  Your style of twisting facts and advocacy does not contribute to civil discussions.  Not only does it throw the discussion off track, it.........
 
Excellent questions, and expressed in a diplomatic style that would foment discussion among those curious to learn..  I was about to answer them until I read your:  "Whether you wish to answer or not is irrelevant...."  That's a good one. 
 
RWD used to be a fun place, a gentleman's club with ladies invited.  Stop in, have a beer, listen to a joke, discuss current events, tell about a real life experience, and help someone with a serious issue.  Today there is too much deep-seated ill will.  I am weary of it, too weary for words.

You know what?

I thought GQ was a bit harsh on you because your age. I was wrong. You are definitely senile.

My response to your tried and true way for conservatives to quiet people who disagree with them is 'accuse' them of elitist. As if being from the elite is a sin. That doesn't work with me. I worked hard to get where I am. If you want to consider yourself average or below average, that's your prerogative.

So this shuffle had nothing to do with what I asked.

You just like to hear yourself talk, don't you?

[Muzh]

Thanks for answering:
 
You seem to relish it.   
 
I have been before regulators many times.  Most were good ;people, interested in getting something done given limitations expressed by the regulations.  For some, thank goodness for America there is due process and a judge.

It is funny how things work out.

I've met some environmental consultants that we are still on a first name basis. Why?

Because they are serious about their jobs. And they do one hell of a job.

Then we have the pretenders.....

[Muzh]

There are a few people who seem to relish rancor, to belittle RWD members, or to disrupt rather than contribute.  Nevertheless, a recent poll shows that most RWD members prefer to be informed and to read stories about meeting and living with RW.    Ozzie, stay the course.

Ahem, lets focus here.

I asked a question regarding language barriers with newlyweds and you started babbling about government work.

C'mon, you can do this.

[Muzh]

Oh, a troll I see.  Well - just so you know, her English is pretty good, my Russian also is around intermediate - we have communicated with care, love and respect.  The things that really matter - now that our languages are meeting - we have some interesting chats about politics Australian and Russian and other things.  Yet, still its not the talking that bonds us - but the "doing together" of the life business.

Oh, I wouldn't accuse FP of trolling, but I see your point.

Of course you have to take care of 'business' to keep the woman happy. Don't want to fight those dingos out there.

Just last winter my wife and I went to Canada to meet with this woman from Kharkiv. She has a daughter who is good friends with my wife's nephew. Our purpose was to pick up a Christmas gift my SIL sent to our son.

The Canadian guy is a real nice guy. They met in one of the tours. Not going to get into specifics. Bottom line is they needed a translator to 'talk' to each other. She still can only say a few words in English. His Russian is as bad as her English. However, they have managed to communicate via 'sign' language and Google translate. They seemed happy with each other. She even confided in my wife her husband was a good man.

He told me they were planning to open a joint business. That's where I started to grimace. I sincerely hope everything goes well with both. They are both very nice people. And I also hope that the determination they showed to bring her to Canada is the same to keep her in Canada.

[Gator]

C'mon, you can do this.

Yes I can.  Two choices:  continue the pissing contest with you or ignore your series of four posts critical of me.  I choose the latter. See how easy it is.   Lesson there.
 
I have already volunteered in your thread my experience with a language barrier.     If you have any proper questions, please ask.  Boethius in one of her posts demonstrated by examples how to phrase sincere questions.
 
Have a good day.

[Muzh]

Yes I can.  Two choices:  continue the pissing contest with you or ignore your series of four posts critical of me.  I choose the latter. See how easy it is.   Lesson there.
 
I have already volunteered in your thread my experience with a language barrier.     If you have any proper questions, please ask.  Boethius in one of her posts demonstrated by examples how to phrase sincere questions.
 
Have a good day.

Excellent.

Wise choice.

[Boethius]

Wow, things break down quickly here.  Lively stuff!

On the topic - communication is over-rated.  Faux Pas - hmm I think I recognise your unmistakable demeanour from somewhere...

I disagree, but I suppose it depends on what type of marriage one wants.

Does some kind of intellectual communication make a marriage?  No.  Do you need deep and meaningful conversations to fall in love?  No.

I think this depends on the marriage.  I do need the intellectual stimulation my better half provides.  After 30 years, he is still the most interesting person I know. 


I did need deep and meaningful conversations to fall in love, someone else may not.

Do you need to be able to tell each other some of the things you need and want in a relationship?  Yes - but a translation on google will do that for you.

We've never had this conversation, beyond the fact we both confirmed we wanted children.

All relationships/marriages are a risk going in - the truth is not revealed until months and months of living together.  So what makes the difference when choosing to jump in?  I will say, in my opinion, not "communication".  For me it was just a sense of the other person's character.  If you are observant a person's character reveals itself in a number of non-direct and not so obvious ways.  Character compatibility.  Rarely do people actually show their true nature through words - the ability to lie and deceive is one of the truly defining aspects of our species.

I don't think it is character compatibility but rather, value compatibility that is important.  There are many men I can think of with fine characters whose values are very different from mine. 

[Boethius]

Wow, things break down quickly here.  Lively stuff!

If you wish to read only "nice" posts, there is a forum where anything deemed "negative" is moderated out.  You may interact nicely with its seven or so regular posters and duplicitous moderators/admins.


Some members here will not "put noodles on your ears".  Some will respond to you in a direct style and generally, they say what's on their mind.  In my experience, those types usually don't hold grudges.  Some posters will be cowards and will insult you in an indirect manner (intentionally, all while cloaking it in "nice" language), or not at all in the forum, but both such "types" of members will be furtively PM'g other like minded individuals with gossip about you, or talking about all your faults in chat. 


I suppose it is all in style, and what style you are most comfortable with.

[Ooooops]

First, I wish to welcome you back to RWD.  You are a breath of fresh air.
 
Regarding the insurance matter, it is for my stepdaughter.  I did not just marry a RW, I acquired a tribe.      

Thank you, Gator.   


Oh, I see.   Well, it's good to had a klan around you.   What colors are your tartans?   

[Ooooops]

Ochka had fair to good English when she arrived nearly 2 years ago. ...
But when we are with others, I realize there are still pronunciation and accent problems.

Still???       I still have hard time with shit and sheet and this is after 20 years of leaving abroad!        But being very clever, I just substitute sheet with piece of ...   and I'm in the clear.   

[BillyB]

I have been married for 4 years now. My wife couldn't speak any English when we met on the Internet. She wrote me first. But for the next 1.5 years she wrote me a long letter in English every single day. We met once in Moscow and once in Turkey.
It would take her about 2 hours to read and write her and my letters. Such determination ! But we couldn't be happier. She is a gem.

Great story Chicagoguy and I've read similar stories from other posters about the dedication their wives gave to communication before they got married.

In spite of our success I do not recommend this path.

So far nobody at this forum has recommended this path. What you can recommend is if a guy finds the kind of woman your wife is, he better hold on to her. Her actions speak louder than words or should I say "lack of words." Your wife, committing 2 hours everyday to communicate with you is amazing. Some guys have a hard time figuring out scammers, insincere women, and women who lack interest in them. If they receive the effort from a woman as you had, that would ease the fears of getting involved with the wrong woman. Regardless the lack of English your wife knew, she gets an A+ for effort and most guys in this endeavor could only wish to have what you're having.

[Daveman]

Still???       I still have hard time with shit and sheet and this is after 20 years of leaving abroad!        But being very clever, I just substitute sheet with piece of ...   and I'm in the clear.   

 

Heh.. my wife has the different pronunciations down to a T.. but with some weird form of dyslexia.  She puts sh!t on the bed, and sheet, er,  elsewhere. It's hilarious to hear "fresh shits on the bed".. so I answer her in Russian, "well...super pooper!!"