Air quality in Ukraine?

[TomT]

Unfortunately, neither PM10 nor PM2.5 are monitored on a reliable basis in Ukraine, so they can only be estimated based on Total Suspended Particle numbers which are also unreliable. Another issue is that all particulate matter is not created equal; compounds of lead, mercury, cadmium and arsenic, for example, make the products of burning fossil fuels pale in comparison.

We should probably just accept the imaginary observations of people who "... would not worry at all about it."

[Slumba]

Don't blame me; he fancies himself to be an expert but denies the Romanized Ukrainian spelling (Zaporizhzhia) and, even after showing him evidence of his ignorance, continues to rave like a lunatic. This is not about anality and pedanticism; normal people who don't have a clue about the subject material typically STFU, read or research. The boy simply ain't right.

FWIW some of the Russian/Ukrainian online dating sites use Zaporizhia, or Zaporizhzhya, or even -ije .  So the Russians are also wrong.

[mendeleyev]

I'm guessing that some of the variations in Latin spellings are due to how one approaches a transliteration and whether from the Russian or Ukrainian when moving from Cyrillic letters to Latin equivalents.

Ukrainian: Запоріжжя

Russian: Запорожье

At first glance I'd go with Zaporizhzha (or Zaporizhzhya) for Ukrainian and Zaporozhye for Russian.

There is a legitimate question about the use of "ia" or "ya" at the end. In both Ukrainian and Russian the я is a "ya" but in Ukrainian grammar a я is written as я but the sound is softened to "a" when the letter follows a consonant at the end of a word.

In this case it does appear at the end and follows a consonant, so perhaps a fluent Ukrainian speaker can explain why the "ia" is used in some transliterations instead of simply "a" at the end.

[GQBlues]

Unfortunately, neither PM10 nor PM2.5 are monitored on a reliable basis in Ukraine, so they can only be estimated based on Total Suspended Particle numbers which are also unreliable. Another issue is that all particulate matter is not created equal; compounds of lead, mercury, cadmium and arsenic, for example, make the products of burning fossil fuels pale in comparison.

We should probably just accept the imaginary observations of people who "... would not worry at all about it."

Thanks for an excellent post, TomT. I ask this before because I really wanted to know how he was able to determine that the LA pollution is 'visibly worst' than what he (allegedly) 'saw' in Zap to be in a position of authority to say 'you have nothing to worry about'.

But Alas! No reply other than to say *I* must be drunk, or as AK subliminally inferred, must be unhappy at home.

Additionally, and as you pointed out, certain airborne particles may well in fact affect people differently, from benign to fatal, depending strictly on each individual. Thus, some folks in ZAP actually die from this while others seem to 'last' longer.

The only thing I am inclined to disagree however is, there are still a lot of residual 'lead contaminants still lingering in the LA basin as a result of the lead content in the gasoline used decades ago. While use of lead been banned for a while now there are still residual evidences along our roadways...however slight, +/- sub 10 ug/m3'.  Lead is a tough, tough metal to get rid off - who knows maybe some of that pollutant are/were caused by our Blood/Crips gangs...

In a 2009 report, Los Angeles ticked at precisely 25.0 PM10 ug/m3, and 14.8 PM2.5 on the annual mean concentration on the WHO report. Contrast to zone classification (urban/industrial), then compare this to any other cities in the world and it isn't so shabby after al. Population do play a major role. Landfill, emissions, etc...VOCs are a major concern for us here in LA. The San Joaquin valley, including Bakersfield are screwed due to heavy agriculture. Not too long ago, same is true to places like Chino, Ontario Highlands...and yes, the armpit of Kali - San Bernardino.

http://www.who.int/phe/health_topics/outdoorair/databases/en/

Report is in an Excel format found at the bottom of the page site.

LA is interesting. It lie just below the northern Jetstream and is bordered by seasonal coastal eddies (spring/summer) / Sta. Ana winds (fall/winter), the sierra range, San Gabriel mountains and is nestled just 34 degrees north of the equator - desert all along the eastern point and beyond. Average annual temperature of 70 degrees F. Then add the almost 10 million folks who have at least 1.3 cars (per DMV report), etc...then it should boast the perfect recipes for pollution  that should be rivaling most 3rd world countries.

But yet, it doesn't.Matter of fact, based on PM10 readings, it is far less than many European countries.

[JayH]

Re: Zaporizhzhya - Zaporozhye -Запоріжжя - Запорожье

Let me point out that Zaporozhia or whatever is not the best spelling as it is far from the right pronunciation. I usually spell it as Zaporojye because ZH inside does not stand for Z + H but for something like J or G. Or, better, S in Asia.

Igor Kalinin
Russian Translator/Interpreter/Guide/Agent for Odessa, the Crimea and the rest of Ukraine
www.odessaguide.net

Not my words above--they belong to Stirlitz  from the forums.The quote is entirely his words.  I posted this about 2 pages ago --but those that choose to make a mountain out of a mole hill  want to keep hashing it.

Please note--- TomT has never been in the place and his material comes from internet search -- so on the count of offering  a personal experience of either the air quality  or of actually having seen any signs around Zaporozhye-- he can offer zilch-- nothing.

[LAman]

GQ, can't mention LA without listening/watching a wonderful song.....( yes, despite all the pol-ution)

[GQBlues]

LOL. Everytime I hear that song, all I can envision is the days of SHOWTIME!

"Magic comin' down the lane, makes a no-look pass to Worthy, throws a pass up to the rim to Coop - SLAAAAM DUNNNK!"

Gotta love Chickee baby!

[mendeleyev]

Jay, I'm not arguing with you or anyone on the name of the city.

I'm truly interested in a Ukrainian language explanation on the variations on transliterations.

[Slumba]

Pardon me, is there a claim being made by some, that JayH has never set foot in Ukraine?

[JayH]

Jay, I'm not arguing with you or anyone on the name of the city.

I'm truly interested in a Ukrainian language explanation on the variations on transliterations.

I have no idea what is "correct"  or acceptable.  I did see variations on road signs-- I will take photos next time but my bet would be on the shorter versions as per Stirlitz . When I first went there some years ago I do recall it being one of the easier names on road signs for me to recognise -- so working on my memory and not Wiki for information.
Zaporozhye is not exactly the hotbead of Ukrainian nationalism.!!

[TomT]

The only thing I am inclined to disagree however is, there are still a lot of residual 'lead contaminants still lingering in the LA basin as a result of the lead content in the gasoline used decades ago. While use of lead been banned for a while now there are still residual evidences along our roadways...however slight, +/- sub 10 ug/m3'.  Lead is a tough, tough metal to get rid off - who knows maybe some of that pollutant are/were caused by our Blood/Crips gangs...

At least it isn't airborne, thanks to California leading the nation to get the lead tetraethyl out of the gasoline. The idea that someone can judge health risks by looking out of their hotel window (or, in one case, out of his mum's basement window) is rubbish, though. There are plenty of toxins and carcinogens that don't show up in particulate tests, don't contribute to smog, but are banned in the West but are in common use in Ukraine.

[Daveman]

Unfortunately, neither PM10 nor PM2.5 are monitored on a reliable basis in Ukraine, so they can only be estimated based on Total Suspended Particle numbers which are also unreliable. Another issue is that all particulate matter is not created equal; compounds of lead, mercury, cadmium and arsenic, for example, make the products of burning fossil fuels pale in comparison.

We should probably just accept the imaginary observations of people who "... would not worry at all about it."

I am one of those who wouldn't worry about a visit there without some scientific evidence indicating that there really is something to worry about. 


Are there serious health risks to worry about for a short visit in Zap? and if so, what is that?  and why (layman's version please)?

[TomT]

I have no idea what is "correct"  or acceptable.

There are a few way to spell Zaporozhye-- but none of them like your attempt !!!

[JayH]

Pardon me, is there a claim being made by some, that JayH has never set foot in Ukraine?

That is TomT's persistent allegation. Consequently in this thread now he alledges that I have not been in Zaporozhye . This troll and forum stalker persists in following me around forums in his misguided paranoiac ways  spewing  vitriolic BS  and insults at every opportunity.
My offer is simple-- I will bet him $5000 winner take all   that what I have said about being in Ukraine is true-- that makes him a liar-- not me.
Perhaps TomT can get his misguided  fool syncopate GQ to tip in another $5K -- more if you want to bet me. So come on you pair of Turkey's are you simply the gutless chickens  you imitate so well with your bullying ignorance on the forums.
Put up or shut up!!

[JayH]

We've already been through this--- at the other place--- and the answer is still the same--- I don't feel the need--- to share my bona fides--- with forum wack-jobs. I don't care--- if you want to believe--- that Zaporizhzhia has the cleanest air on Earth--- but I'm not going to remain mute--- while you spew your bullshit to the inexperienced.

The question was-"When were you there"?
Lets get a few pieces of reality about this clown out in the open.
He offers "opinions" in this thread when he has never been to the city in question.He then seeks to tell others what they have or could not have seen--in my case--because he alledges I have never been there.
Anyone else think that is more than a little( a lot) strange?   mm

[JayH]

We've already been through this--- at the other place--- and the answer is still the same--- I don't feel the need--- to share my bona fides--- with forum wack-jobs. I don't care--- if you want to believe--- that Zaporizhzhia has the cleanest air on Earth--- but I'm not going to remain mute--- while you spew your bullshit to the inexperienced.

The question repeatedly asked of this guy is "When were you ever in Ukraine"?
He refuses to say -- why? Partly because he knows it was so long ago that the relevant knowledge has no currency-- and at best is only broad brush.
Maybe it is because his wife is the issue here-- you can explain to us all Tom  .Were you already married  when you last went there?

[TomT]

Are there serious health risks to worry about for a short visit in Zap? and if so, what is that?  and why (layman's version please)?

I don't know what substances to which one will be exposed but, in any case, a short period of exposure beats a lengthy period of exposure. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to go to a resort outside of the city and upwind of the smoke stacks.

[TomT]

Maybe it is because his wife is the issue here-- you can explain to us all Tom  .Were you already married  when you last went there?

Harassing significant others is part of the reason for your being banned elsewhere. Apparently, you didn't learn anything from that experience; you're still the same creepy guy that you ever were. 

[JayH]

You're both wrong, JayH is spot on. The OP should listen to him instead. He's the fcoking expert.  s. The dude's a wiz...
 
Yes OP, you should 'believe what JayH tells you.

Amongst all your rubbish comments you got this part right----- it looks like the large majority argree with me in that there is not enough reason not to go there.
Apart from the first 2 guys that gave a negative response in the thread--only GQ & TT have  responded  in a negative way.That negativity is directed at my opinion--they seem to have forgotten to state what they advise-- although TT does say in a roundabout way--go there. A few others are near enough neutral or not clear in what they would do--- BUT-- there are 13 who say GO !!!

Of course-- if it was not for the first two negative responses in the thread--TT and GQ would not have been able to run amok with personal insults and attempts to ridicule me.
The numbers are not with you two-- thought I would mention it in the interests of decent advice for the OP that was not unbalanced--or should I say sober and not unhinged advice.

I don't know what substances to which one will be exposed but, in any case, a short period of exposure beats a lengthy period of exposure. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to go to a resort outside of the city and upwind of the smoke stacks.

Update-- after all the ridiculous attempts  TT now says go there!! You really are too riduculous.

[JayH]

Harassing significant others is part of the reason for your being banned elsewhere. Apparently, you didn't learn anything from that experience; you're still the same creepy guy that you ever were.

The question is directed at you. Your pettly little man mate GQ is busy scorning sex tourists  or anyone he perceives as one so it is perfectly reasonable to get at the reasons you refuse to say when you were in Ukraine.
You cannot keep trying to place yourself on some perceived high moral ground position and hand out outdated advice. I do not know the answer--I was asking you if this is the reason for your reluctance to tell all the forum.
You are a hypocrite of the first order-- it is perfectly reasonable that others be made aware of it.

It is typical of TomT to try and hide behind a womans skirts -- he pulls that card everytime  he declines to answer inconvenient questions.  By now he will have fired off pm after pm seeking to bully them into some unwarranted action-my guess is they are already sick of hearing from you -- you want to hand it out but are incapable of taking any challenge to you credibility.
BTW Tom--with "friends" like you have --you need to be nicer to your "enemies" !! lol

[lonedrake]

 After reading the first hand reports and other evidence....I would go there and not worry about the pollution at all. But..thats just me and I  am pretty healthy.

 For some reason...it reminds me of people who worry about air pollution...and they smoke.

[JayH]

Harassing significant others is part of the reason for your being banned elsewhere. Apparently, you didn't learn anything from that experience; you're still the same creepy guy that you ever were.

Creepy--that would be you--the troll and forum stalker--as well as in real life stalker . Are you not the same guy that runs to the internet to identify people mentioned in threads,seeks personal information on other members of the forums?   
Now that is creepy.
As for me--like always--you never get anything right.

[JayH]

After reading the first hand reports and other evidence....I would go there and not worry about the pollution at all. But..thats just me and I  am pretty healthy.

 For some reason...it reminds me of people who worry about air pollution...and they smoke.

That makes it 15 who would go !!  2 posted unfavourably  plus GQ who has not a clue whatsover and a few fence sitters that do not state a conclusion.
Thought  I would update the score!!

[Gator]

I don't know what substances to which one will be exposed but, in any case, a short period of exposure beats a lengthy period of exposure. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to go to a resort outside of the city and upwind of the smoke stacks.

Depends of course. 
 
 
If someone already has respiratory ailments, short term exposures to fine particulates can be deleterious.
 
And  the notorious case of Bhopal   - short exposure of gas leak from a pesticide plant lasting less than one night.  Deaths numbered 2000-3000.  Injured over 500,000 people.   
 
Nevertheless, I agree with you based on what I cursorily observed in Zaptown. 

[LAman]

That makes it 15 who would go !!  2 posted unfavourably  plus GQ who has not a clue whatsover and a few fence sitters that do not state a conclusion.
Thought  I would update the score!!

Jay, if you go back and reread, the OP's question was not whether to go there or not....it was about air quality.
 The OP's has some sinus probs., wonder how many here have that prob?
Maybe it is more mental, but seeing those smoke stacks billowing dark smoke made me sick ( just the feeling, not like Canadaman). Some of these towns seem dark and dingy...the worst I saw was Mariupol, yuk.