Saved by Mila

[2tallbill]

Nonsense...
It's like saying I want to be a millionaire but not a billionaire.

It appears that you have learned a lot and have some chemistry. Waiting until May
is going to be a huge hurdle. If you can do something or anything to shorten that
time you will be a thousand miles ahead of where you are now.


If you can work Saturdays or extra days for more time off in the future. If you can
take some unpaid time off, try to think outside of the box, try to figure out some
way to get boots on the ground in front of this girl.


Udachi !


Bill

[mendeleyev]

Sleepycat, it is a Russian joke, not a philosophy on life. 

Although the wrong woman can do that to a man.
 

[JayH]

Famous Russian wife proverb:

Woman to her man: Darling, I can make you a millionaire! But first you must become a billionaire.

mmm Russian proverb ---   *I have often heard what is a variation of this joke in relation to a couple of sports I am and have been involved in-- ie  How  do you make a small fortune out of   xxxxxx   racing?  The answer-- start with a large fortune !!

Some time ago on forums was discussion of  American Jewish comedians --I wonder if that is yet another Eastern European connection in
this joke and Russian proverb?

[sleepycat]

Waiting until May is going to be a huge hurdle. If you can do something or anything to shorten that
time you will be a thousand miles ahead of where you are now.

I suppose I could try to fit in another trip between now and May. But to fund that trip I will have to go into debt which I don't really want to do. During the meetings with that lady I had repeatedly informed her that I cannot come back before May next year and asked her if she was ok with the 5 month wait. The lady said it is not a problem as she will have other things in her life to keep her occupied in the meantime. Lets just hope the lady means what she had told me.

I don't know. Maybe a woman with a young child has less marriage options available locally so she might be more inclined to wait until I come back???

We Aussies are at a disadvantage in terms of travelling to meet FSUW due to the extra travelling time involved and the higher cost of airfares. In the last half year the Aussie Dollar has dipped below parity with the US Dollar so a trip now will cost more compared to 9 months ago.

[lonedrake]

I suppose I could try to fit in another trip between now and May. But to fund that trip I will have to go into debt which I don't really want to do. During the meetings with that lady I had repeatedly informed her that I cannot come back before May next year and asked her if she was ok with the 5 month wait. The lady said it is not a problem as she will have other things in her life to keep her occupied in the meantime. Lets just hope the lady means what she had told me.

 Honesty is the best policy. Just skype with her everyday. You will find out if she is serious and you will find out if you want to meet her again.

[Gator]

Sleepycat,

Be sure to talk, talk, talk on Skype, and not just small talk.  I suggest this so their are no surprises next time you meet.

[LAman]

Sleepycat,

Be sure to talk, talk, talk on Skype, and not just small talk.  I suggest this so their are no surprises next time you meet.

If we read back, we find sleepycat's girl in question, has VERY LIMITED English skills. So how do you get to know someone when you are not even sure they really understand what you are trying to say write. Speaking seems out of the equation.

[calmissile]

If we read back, we find sleepycat's girl in question, has VERY LIMITED English skills. So how do you get to know someone when you are not even sure they really understand what you are trying to say write. Speaking seems out of the equation.

It is surprising how muchh you can communicate on Skype using Skypetranslate or Clownfish interpreter programs.  Larissa and I have been using it for about a year and it works well enough.  Your right, it's not the same thing as being fluent in each others language but if you really care for each other it will make do while your gal is learning English.

Taking formal English classes is a must.  Once she starts learning a little English the more it motivates her to put her heart into it.  Eventually you will discover that you are using the translator program less and less.

[Baffin]

Sorry for bringing back an old topic, but I just saw it and as I was involved, I'll put my input.

Lots of people were questioning Sleepycat or Mila about this issue. So let's put another part of the story with Miss T  for your understanding (I'll just call her Miss T for now as I'm not sure what are the rules about it on the forum).

First, the flowers for Mila for preventing Sleepycat from falling for Miss T. 
Second, the flower pot to Mila for presenting her to me in the first place 

I met Miss T this summer through Mila. The first meetings with Mila went well. (we met many times on that trip) Even Mila said she was all over me, looking very interested. Miss T is fluent in English (actually better than mine) so we decided to meet together again without Mila for my next trip. That's when things went down the drain.

So I did another trip in the fall just for Miss T and she organized things for me. Overall, was nice, but many things made me raise one or two eyebrows.

Let's make a list (not in any particular order and not in detail, but details can be added on request)

Ask straightly out of nowhere how much I'm making? Checked
Asked often get me to purchase her something – randomly enter shops and say I need/want this (of course, always the top of the line, most expensive)? Checked
Even ask for car or trip to Thailand? Checked
Whine and complain if she doesn’t get it? Checked
Quickly fell in love (not literally, she didn't say it, but I was her best BF ever), but the idea of getting married and move abroad quickly change to let's stay an unmarried couple and you keep travelling here? Checked
The only quality she seems to care or mention all the time about is how generous I am (or wants me to be)? Checked
Very negative reaction to question about what she did with the money I gave her (whatever I had left when I left Ukraine, which was quite a lot – Ukrainian standard, she had no money the day after)? Checked
Disregard any mention I made about being over my trip budget? Checked
Her cell phones are better guarded than Fort Knoxx? Checked
Totally refuse to show her apartment for various and unclear reasons despite being beside it many times? Checked
Complained she's poor and make $400 a month but get her wallet stolen and lost over $200 without losing anything else (she had every ID in her wallet)? Checked
On charming bride, it was said the guy sent her money for her stomach ulcer but she told me she never had such thing? Checked
Have a long (I mean very long) history of foreign ex-boyfriends (acknowledge by her) that mysteriously dumped her (some were even engaged)  (her side of the story)? Checked
Still sending "I miss you" emails while she's obviously dating with other people (like Sleepycat, it's the perfect timeframe)? Checked.
Found traces of her on some of the dating sites with suspicious notes? Checked

As you can see, there are so many red flags that we could switch back every FSU flag back to the soviet one... Miss T IS a gold digger/pro-dater. You shouldn’t need a second guess about it, it’s quite clear. I’d register her in every scammer list if I could.

I warned Mila then she warned Sleepycat. (you owe me, buddy!)

I'm not stupid, I realized fast that things weren't right. I became suspicious quickly with her, but not enough. I tolerated many things that I shouldn't have, tried to rationalize things and it took some time for them to reach the critical level. I didn't put all the pieces of the puzzle together until I went home… Then I said screw you. All I can do about it now is warn others.

On my side, I learned a good lesson from it and I think I’m smarter now. I've got a local girlfriend in the meantime, so I don't think I'll go back to FSU. (but if it fails, with so much potential over there, you can be sure I'll try again lol)

[Gator]

Baffin,

Thanks for sharing.  It is rare that two RWD members, independent of each other, are fleeced by the same pro dater.  In fact, I can not recall another time this has happened.

Even more amazing is the number of red flags she raised.  Your lists totals 14 red flags.  Could be a record!  One red flag is enough to start questioning the relationship.  Two flags and Plan B is retrieved for review. Three flags, pull the emergency brake line and deboard the train.

Your list of red flags is good information for other men making their first or second trip to the FSU.

Finally, while RWD frowns upon revealing the identities of women accused of wrong doing, considering that two members had the same experience, it would seem informative IMO to list her Charming Bride profile reporting the  money sent her for ulcer.   

[Baffin]

I didn't count them, but let's say I'm not too proud.  Also, I'm not stupid, but not a fast thinker 

to my defense, it's not like the 14 red flags that happened the first day. The first few days, outside her apartment that she didn't want to show, saying her roomate was working nightshift (seemed legit at first) and the first gifts were small and didn't seem out of place. But after 3-4 days on my second trip to see her, she started and showed her real face. Some of the redflags were quite subtil, some more obvious but not frequent. As I said, at first, didn't think much about it, didn't make it a big deal, trying to be patient and rationalizing. During the last days, I didn't care much as I was just waiting to go home. But even after mentionning my suspicions and frustration, that didn't stop her. The last flags happened after I was gone.

In retrospective, yes it was so big that I should have gotten myself out of it faster.

Also, from what I found out, she was quite active on the mob scene. Lots of it disappeared recently (Wonder why lol), but she was on almost every agency I looked on not that long ago. And she got amazing professional pictures (model like, despite looking very average in person) so no wonder she'd get a lot of replies. Most people going to Kharkov will probably see her profile. (I met her personally through Mila, never saw her online first)

You can throw me tomatoes for being manipulated like a noob. It's not the end of the World, I won't lose sleep over it, but let's say I won't brag about it. I only came to tell this part of the story if it can help someone.

[Faux Pas]

I didn't count them, but let's say I'm not too proud.  Also, I'm not stupid, but not a fast thinker 

to my defense, it's not like the 14 red flags that happened the first day. The first few days, outside her apartment that she didn't want to show, saying her roomate was working nightshift (seemed legit at first) and the first gifts were small and didn't seem out of place. But after 3-4 days on my second trip to see her, she started and showed her real face. Some of the redflags were quite subtil, some more obvious but not frequent. As I said, at first, didn't think much about it, didn't make it a big deal, trying to be patient and rationalizing. During the last days, I didn't care much as I was just waiting to go home. But even after mentionning my suspicions and frustration, that didn't stop her. The last flags happened after I was gone.

In retrospective, yes it was so big that I should have gotten myself out of it faster.

Also, from what I found out, she was quite active on the mob scene. Lots of it disappeared recently (Wonder why lol), but she was on almost every agency I looked on not that long ago. And she got amazing professional pictures (model like, despite looking very average in person) so no wonder she'd get a lot of replies. Most people going to Kharkov will probably see her profile. (I met her personally through Mila, never saw her online first)

You can throw me tomatoes for being manipulated like a noob. It's not the end of the World, I won't lose sleep over it, but let's say I won't brag about it. I only came to tell this part of the story if it can help someone.

You are in an all exclusive club of tens of thousands, probably 100's of thousands. You were neither the first or the last from this gal. Just a good thing you finally clued yourself in. The only one to blame here is yourself. The old adage "if it's too good to be true" comes to mind.

Many fellows making the trip make the same mistakes you did. Mostly, that's ignoring the obvious and excusing these women's transgression when they wouldn't excuse the same transgression from women at home.

[Daveman]

During the last days, I didn't care much as I was just waiting to go home. But even after mentionning my suspicions and frustration, that didn't stop her. The last flags happened after I was gone.

In retrospective, yes it was so big that I should have gotten myself out of it faster.

Well, yep.  YOU should have stopped it rather than mentioning your suspicions and frustrations.

That's my only tomato headed your direction.  Thanks for sharing your story.

An expensive lesson for you but at least you are taking the lesson from it.  I can think of a few who came here during the process (a benefit you didn't have) asking about her behavior, receiving an answer (which wasn't what they WANTED to hear), and then began defending the woman and her behavior.  Absolutely amazing.

Note to the general readership:
Do not spend money you do not want to spend.  That's it.  It's your money and your responsibility. That's the secret of beating the scammers.  If you want to spend, and you choose to do so, that is your choice and your responsibility.  If you do NOT want to spend, and you choose to do so, that is also your choice and your responsibility.

[Gator]

The only one to blame here is yourself.

Not in my opinion.

Baffian made a mistake in judgment, and he accepts responsibility.  Even better, he realized his mistake before he gave her more money.     


MissT is corrupt.  She will keep deceiving foreign men for money, probably feels she is a clever dyev, and perhaps brags to her friends about her scams.

You say she shares no blame.  To say she shares no blame is IMO to say  her scams are justified (i. e., any reasonable UW would do the same).   If that is true, no reasonable man should ever marry a UW.   Do the socioeconomic conditions of Ukraine justify any deceit, any crime against  foreign men lured by her model-like photos?    If not, where should the line be drawn? 

I believe MissT is the exception.  For sure there are others like her.  Yet with reasonable research and analysis, the MissT's can be spotted if not preempted from ever meeting.

[JayH]

Sorry for bringing back an old topic, but I just saw it and as I was involved, I'll put my input.

On my side, I learned a good lesson from it and I think I’m smarter now. I've got a local girlfriend in the meantime, so I don't think I'll go back to FSU. (but if it fails, with so much potential over there, you can be sure I'll try again lol)

Welcome!!  It is excellent to add to existing thread that is essentially touching the same areas--so no apology needed.
Don't beat yourself up too much over your story--it is far more common than you may think.When faced with a situation on the ground most reasonable people will keep giving the benefit of the doubts to the wrong person.
If you think about it-- with the experience you have had-plus what you can read on the forum-- you are now much better equipped for seeking mob !!
Your story is not the slightest bit unusual-- the big problem is trying to tell guys before they have travelled--and when they are still enamoured with the romance of an idea!!

[Faux Pas]

Not in my opinion.

Baffian made a mistake in judgment, and he accepts responsibility.  Even better, he realized his mistake before he gave her more money.     


MissT is corrupt.  She will keep deceiving foreign men for money, probably feels she is a clever dyev, and perhaps brags to her friends about her scams.

You say she shares no blame.  To say she shares no blame is IMO to say  her scams are justified (i. e., any reasonable UW would do the same).   If that is true, no reasonable man should ever marry a UW.   Do the socioeconomic conditions of Ukraine justify any deceit, any crime against  foreign men lured by her model-like photos?    If not, where should the line be drawn? 

I believe MissT is the exception.  For sure there are others like her.  Yet with reasonable research and analysis, the MissT's can be spotted if not preempted from ever meeting.

We can certainly agree to disagree.

No where did I say she shares no blame. MissT is a prodater. Separating starry eyed unsuspecting chaps from their money is what she does. It was his money and his choice as was anything presents, cash etc she extracted from him. No where does he say, she put a gun to his head and demanded it. A hard penis doesn't absolve him from willingly handing over the loot. IMHO He made the wrong choice, that fault belongs to nobody but himself

[Daveman]

We can certainly agree to disagree.

No where did I say she shares no blame. MissT is a prodater. Separating starry eyed unsuspecting chaps from their money is what she does. It was his money and his choice as was anything presents, cash etc she extracted from him. No where does he say, she put a gun to his head and demanded it. A hard penis doesn't absolve him from willingly handing over the loot. IMHO He made the wrong choice, that fault belongs to nobody but himself

I'm definitely with you there.  Yes, there are prodaters and scammers.  MissT is, in all probability, a top notch expert in that category.

I think the point here is - she's not listening.  He is (and others are reading).  It appears that he's learned the right lesson from his endeavor, and understands that the buck ultimately stops with him.  I'd have to say that as unfortunate it is for anyone to become involved with such a situation, he's way ahead of where he was before because he actually learned from it.

[Gator]

No where did I say she shares no blame.

How else should I interpret:

The only one to blame here is yourself.

I thought you were absolving MissT.   

You do say "No where does he say, she put a gun to his head and demanded it."   Does that suggest a line in the sand, or were you being metaphorical?

You, Daveman and I agree on everything else.  And so does the self-enlightened Baffin who has a local girlfriend and does not plan on a return. 

[Faux Pas]

I'm definitely with you there.  Yes, there are prodaters and scammers.  MissT is, in all probability, a top notch expert in that category.

I think the point here is - she's not listening.  He is (and others are reading).  It appears that he's learned the right lesson from his endeavor, and understands that the buck ultimately stops with him.  I'd have to say that as unfortunate it is for anyone to become involved with such a situation, he's way ahead of where he was before because he actually learned from it.

I agree with that wholeheartedly. Baffin is only posting it he says, to warn others. I believe that. It appears he has taken full responsibility for his part which, at the end of the day, is the only part relevant to the conversation. Slight chance MissT is going to show up here to present another side.

I've heard/read 100's of these stories and probably only actually "shocked" by the first one. The bottom line is, the bait was sexy, Baffin had choice and he willingly choose to be the fish. Nobody to blame for that but himself IMO

I can offer a slap on the back and a "better luck next time"  but no sympathy not much more than some advice to quit thinking the boy meets girl rules don't apply. They do, in the FSU as much as anyplace.

[JayH]

Baffin,
Thanks for sharing.  It is rare that two RWD members, independent of each other, are fleeced by the same pro dater.  In fact, I can not recall another time this has happened.
 

Gator it is not so rare--if you read thread I started!!  " Is This Guy For Real" there is some comment on this.When I first started my search-- and after the first few weeks!!--I started researching and being more methodical-- and started keeping extensive notes.I was aware of the potential for a scam--but not the methodology.
Out of that--I became familiar with literally 1000's of internet profiles.I was also developing quite a few friends-- who in due course I learnt about the "systems" from.
I have met quite a large number of girls- some individually,some in groups!!some as friends or associates of friends .
Later in my search I found the forums( I was researching US Visa situation for a Ukraine girl who was being bs'd by American guy) and in due course-thru chat,pm's and even in threads---- I was able to recognise a remarkable number of girls.
In one case-- when a guy reluctantly confided  in me ( most guys are quite reticent to identify girls that they still have 1% belief in)- I had met this girl and could background him.He had spent what most of you would consider a fortune on chat with her-- then went and visited her.She is 29 yo-- stunning looking attention getter-still very active on notorious web sites today.His visit went quite well -- at least at first glance.They had been using skype( as well as chat functions) and the warning signs easily rationalised away eg  picking her up away from residence.When talking(in chat privately) with him--he mentioned that she asked about his car-- which was upmarket Eu -- which pleased her and she asked more about it--he explained it was 10 yo but his pride and joy!! She went visibly cool at this point!!I had quite a lot of information but not her name from him--when he told me her name it took only seconds for me to be certain we were talking about the same girl .In minutes-- I was able to prove to him he was not the one and only in her life !!
This guy is an intelligent ,nice,normal guy-- very responsible job and fully employed. He was & is not seeking anything ridiculous but found himself in a situation.He discovered forums in time!!He has since made numerous more trips and most probably has found  his genuine lady .

[Chelseaboy]

Faux Pas,

            So you're saying any victim of a scammer/prodater/grifter/con-person has nobody to blame but themselves.

So,the person perpetuating the scam/con is blameless in your eyes...interesting to see how your mind works..very illuminating indeed.

Fortunately,in Western society the law takes a different view than you.

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas,

            So you're saying any victim of a scammer/prodater/grifter/con-person has nobody to blame but themselves.

So,the person perpetuating the scam/con is blameless in your eyes...interesting to see how your mind works..very illuminating indeed.

You don't have a clue as to how my mind works and don't pretend that you do. Maybe you could brush up on your reading comprehensions skills and then read the posts again?

[Chelseaboy]

I can read your posts perfectly well..and I quote "The only one to blame here is yourself ".

Followed in a later posting by "Nobody to blame for that but himself IMO ".

Seems clear enough to me .

[Faux Pas]

I can read your posts perfectly well..and I quote "The only one to blame here is yourself ".

Followed in a later posting by "Nobody to blame for that but himself IMO ".

Seems clear enough to me .

Exactly. Who else does his personal responsibility rest with? MissT? Mila? The pilots that flew the planes in which he rode, who? Apparently this topic touches a nerve for you. Does it burst your own little balloon?

You insinuating that it is MissT's blame or fault would be the same as say it's the casinos fault you couldn't win at BlackJack

[Chelseaboy]

People are not Robots,well most of them,and to say any man who has been scammed by any woman,or any woman who has been scammed by a man..have only themselves to blame is saying that human emotion has no part to play in these scenarios.

How can you compare a woman presumably professing great feelings/love for a man,because that's what these prodaters/scammers do Faux Pas,with a casino where a person is gambling to try and win money,and with pilots that flew the aircraft our intrepid travellers flew in.?

And yes it is Miss T's fault..because she's the one doing the lying/scamming...or is that ok with you ?

If she hadn't of been lying to at least two guys we know of,then they wouldn't have wasted their time,emotion and money visiting her would they ?

Are the men blameless ? Certainly not,because as you say it was their choice to part with their money..but to say they are the only ones to blame is exempting Miss T  from blame..and other forum members can decide on the morals of that for themselves.

As for my balloon..nope nothing burst there..i met a girl like Miss T and if you read my previous postings you'll see I was too smart for her scamming,although she took at least two other guys for plenty.