Calling All Old Posters-- ie Those missing on Forum for some time

[vwrw]

Do you have a say in this? 

Nope, but if I had a say, my hands would still be tied because of the reason above.   

Life without opposition is a boring life

[pitbull]

Hmmm.... there are plenty individuals and their choices discussed in this forum even though them individuals do not participate. Especially when those individuals are the RW ex-wives of the current posters.  Greg's wife being the latest example

[pokerintherear]

I have an idea........Make this a private forum and you can control all aspects of participation........I think all problems would be solved and all parties would be happy.

[AnonMod]

I would encourage all engaged in this conversation to remain on topic and civil. Otherwise action will be taken and the offender will not like it 

Attack the post, not the poster. Remain on topic

[Misha]

Help her with a career like GQ did.

I do not want to comment on GQ (or Ken or Northkape or any of the men that keep being thrown out as "examples" good or bad), but the question that such comments raise is as follows: is the husband solely responsible for his wife's success? Should he take all the blame and by extension the praise for his wife's career failure or success? Does not the woman have any agency or role or even responsibility in her success or failure? Part of it seems to be a very entrenched Russian expectation: all your success is due to connections (or the connections of your parents--usually father--and by extension husband) that the idea of personal drive and ambition is rarely credited (or blamed) for success (or failure).

[Ranetka]

I do not want to comment on GQ (or Ken or Northkape or any of the men that keep being thrown out as "examples" good or bad), but the question that such comments raise is as follows: is the husband solely responsible for his wife's success? Should he take all the blame and by extension the praise for his wife's career failure or success? Does not the woman have any agency or role or even responsibility in her success or failure? Part of it seems to be a very entrenched Russian expectation: all your success is due to connections (or the connections of your parents--usually father--and by extension husband) that the idea of personal drive and ambition is rarely credited (or blamed) for success (or failure).

Again, i repeat. In an unequal marriage one party should assume more responsibility and have more blame assigned than the other.
Sure the woman has responsibility for her life.
Using connections is a Russian thing? Is it a joke? Never heard of sororities, net working events, self help books of how to make friends and influence people? It's a very Western thing actually. Expression 'its not what you know, it's who you know ' have not been created by Russians either... Russians just, as usual, see no need to sugar coat.

[Ranetka]

I do not want to comment on GQ (or Ken or Northkape or any of the men that keep being thrown out as "examples" good or bad), but the question that such comments raise is as follows: is the husband solely responsible for his wife's success? Should he take all the blame and by extension the praise for his wife's career failure or success? Does not the woman have any agency or role or even responsibility in her success or failure? Part of it seems to be a very entrenched Russian expectation: all your success is due to connections (or the connections of your parents--usually father--and by extension husband) that the idea of personal drive and ambition is rarely credited (or blamed) for success (or failure).

No the husband is not solely responsible.
No he shouldn't take all the blame.
Yes, the woman has a role.
It is not a Russian thing that ALL success is due to connection, it's a figment of your imagination or perhaps mentality of Russians you are associated with.

[Misha]

Again, i repeat. In an unequal marriage one party should assume more responsibility and have more blame assigned than the other.

Why? Why should the husband in an "unequal" marriage be assigned more responsibility or more blame? Why is the woman with an older husband less responsible for her success than a younger husband? Unless he actively sabotaged his wife's attempts to pursue a career, I do not see why the husband should be placed squarely on his shoulders as a marriage is a partnership and the best we can do is provide moral support, but the husband's can't study for their wives or do the work for them or be there standing behind their shoulder at work....

[size=78%]Sure the woman has responsibility for her life.[/size]

[size=78%]How much? Reading the posts, it seems to me that a woman is no responsible for her choices.[/size]

Using connections is a Russian thing? Is it a joke? Never heard of sororities, net working events, self help books of how to make friends and influence people? It's a very Western thing actually. Expression 'its not what you know, it's who you know ' have not been created by Russians either... Russians just, as usual, see no need to sugar coat.

Yes, but the Russian version is very different. I have helped more than a few Russian immigrants with their resumés and translating documents. The common complaint is that getting a job is solely a question of "connections" and because they do not have "connections" in Canada it is a hopeless cause. I keep telling them to go out, to volunteer, to meet new people, but of course, few ever listen (sigh).

[Ranetka]

But Misha, you lived in Russia, you know how moaning is an accepted part of a conversation? You should know Russian culture does not put as much value on appear positive as American does? They just do not understand yet that expressing their fears is not an acceptable behavior, that's all.They do the right e stuff, they just have not learn to sound right yet being recent immigrants...

[Misha]

They just do not understand yet that expressing their fears is not an acceptable behavior, that's all.They do the right e stuff, they just have not learn to sound right yet being recent immigrants...

No, for Canadians, expressing their fears is perfectly acceptable. However, it is the failure to accept any responsibility or agency that can be grating. I even have an example from the same family. The first was a dentist in Russia and spent a decade getting her certification to work here in Canada. For years, she was on a farms miles and miles from the nearest neighbour. She worked extremely hard to study for all the necessary entrance exams and to get accepted in one of the few university programs that accepted foreign trained dentists. She now is doing very well, has a few houses and travels to the best vacation spots. She helped her brother immigrate. However, he was a director in Russia, had a private driver, and could not adjust to the loss of status. He was also not as dedicated as his sister to putting in the time and effort to succeed. Eventually, he simply returned to Russia.

[TheTraveler]

...Help her with a career like GQ did...

not to discount the anything done (or said) by saint gq -- but as i recall, kenc's wife changed her mind about having kids (at first didn't want them... later did).  i don't remember any conflict arose over career/no career.

to me, the #1 flaw in kenc's thinking in the beginning was the idea that a very young woman could be trusted to not change her mind regarding having her own children.  but in matters of the heart, rational thought often gets disregarded.  i'd venture to guess ken would not disagree.

[Ranetka]

to me, the #1 flaw in kenc's thinking in the beginning was the idea that a very young woman could be trusted to not change her mind regarding having her own children.  but in matters of the heart, rational thought often gets disregarded.  i'd venture to guess ken would not disagree.

Yes i agree.

[fathertime]

Hey KenC,  Thanks for sharing what you have...It is really too bad that several people made attempts to slight you and your ex-wife.  At first it appeared that posters were opening up a genuine conversation, but based on the more recent posts, it is becoming clear they were just trying to be insulting.  From my perspective, you have a good story to share, and for some reason that irritates some people.


The more I read, the more clear it becomes that there are some very strong biases here.   A lot of real anger towards somewhat older men that decide to go with a much younger wife.  I think that is worth noting because quite a few men are in this situation and maybe they should be aware of what many other FSU women appear to REALLY think of them, even if they are polite to their face.


   I thought Glyden's post was a reasonable summary...No Villian...nobody doing badly either...life moves on. 


Fathertime!     

[Wayne]

As you know, I have been on this forum from just about the start. I remember seeing photos of Lena. I had conversations with Ken. He really did a lot, moved to another state, and tried to make Lena happy.
 
Yes, Lena said she did not want children, but changed her mind when she got older. That is not uncommon. She has a very beautiful face and is the kind of person who gets a lot of attention. She was or is very thin, and it could be possible that she is too thin to have children. Also, it seems like she lacks confidence.
 
I am glad to read Ken's posts and wish he would continue.

[Muzh]

Pitbull, there are studies showing that a person's beauty helps him/her to get a certain level of success and then it becomes a barrier to success. You see many people  have a preconceived notion that very beautiful people are stupid. In the light of this notion, they often undervalue the outputs coming from beautiful people. So having Lane's look might complicate your path to huge "success". Had you have her look, you husband might be scared to marry you, preferring someone from his league, and your boss might not give you a chance, assuming that you are likely stupid.

This is so true for the average Joe.
 
 

[Muzh]

I am struggling to understand how people can equalise a 45 years old American business owner with a 19 years old girl in a destroyed country (1998?) where not many can see future and where her parents are advising 'go for it, do not loose this man'  (still remember reading this feeling uneasy) .

It's called justification.
 
How else can you justify what would fly in the face of the norm?

[Muzh]

Why? Why should the husband in an "unequal" marriage be assigned more responsibility or more blame? Why is the woman with an older husband less responsible for her success than a younger husband? Unless he actively sabotaged his wife's attempts to pursue a career, I do not see why the husband should be placed squarely on his shoulders as a marriage is a partnership and the best we can do is provide moral support, but the husband's can't study for their wives or do the work for them or be there standing behind their shoulder at work....

Let me ask you Misha.
 
When raising your child(ren) do you assign equal repsosibilities to the success of the child(ren) or do you have a 'heavier' hand in the success?
 
I know that if I didn't have a 'heavier' hand with my children, they would not be where they are right now. Namely, towards a successful life.

[jone]

Muzh,

You have to agree that the dynamic between a husband and wife is substantially different than between a father and son. 

I would hope that you perceive an equal responsibility relationship between the husband and wife, regardless of the age spread.  If not, then what constitutes the proper age spread for the husband to acquire more responsibility?

[Misha]

When raising your child(ren) do you assign equal repsosibilities to the success of the child(ren) or do you have a 'heavier' hand in the success?

Let me see if I understand this correctly. My interpretation of what you wrote is that you equate a 21-year-old woman with a child. Is this correct? Would she be comparable to a 5-year-old or are you being more generous and saying that she would be comparable to a 10 or 12 year old?

[Muzh]

Muzh,

You have to agree that the dynamic between a husband and wife is substantially different than between a father and son. 

I would hope that you perceive an equal responsibility relationship between the husband and wife, regardless of the age spread.  If not, then what constitutes the proper age spread for the husband to acquire more responsibility?

Between a 45+ man and a 20+ girl? If you insest.
 
Edit: Ooops. I mean, insist.

[jone]

Why not 25 and 35?  How about 29 and 30? 

[Muzh]

Jone, there is NO equal responsibility between a man with lots of resources and a woman whose only resource is her body.

[jone]

Yes.  You are absolutely right.  The man is at a total disadvantage.   

[jone]

Sorry about the above post, Muzh.  I couldn't resist.

There is a large argument in favor of the man with resources.  A man with an inferiority complex will always attempt to control a relationship.  A sociopath acts only on his/her interests.  But the reality is that there is a line that is crossed when a couple enters into matrimony.  That his is hers and hers is his.  If either of the parties do not subscribe to this, then there is a disconnect. 

While I would like to believe that said line is crossed, in most cases, I can understand your vision whereby advantage is exercised by the one with money.  I just don't think that it is unique to age disparate marriages.

[Muzh]

I just don't think that it is unique to age disparate marriages.

No argument there.