Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members

[jone]

It seems to me that you are not able to have a civilized discussion, and instead of polite expression your POV about situation in Ukraine, you are trying to "insult" people you do not agree with.
Actually, I doubt you read my reply, because you keep saying same things, so I have to repeat:
I call some people Nazi because they are Nazi. But that's obvious that we are talking about different people.
Once again, please, do some research about Ukrainian Nazi, so you at least could understand what you are having an argument about. Do your homework.
I don't support any extremism. If you for some reason think that I support any bloodshed, you didn't get my POV. Plain and simple: you didn't get it. I didn't accuse anybody, I expressed my thoughts.
You are sure that no one was threatening Crimea. Ok, that's your POV. You have a right to have it, I have a right to have mine. Don't you find absolutely amazing that the only perspective that you are willing to consider is your own? 

Your thoughts ran exactly parallel to the quote that I enlisted from Adolf Hitler.  Would you like me to share your phrasing, again, and see how closely it matches his comments before the Reichstag?

As for the term "Ukrainian Nazi" that is a coinage made up by Russian nationalists.  So, if you are asking if I am reading up about Nazis in Ukraine, then I would have to be reading the rags that you saturate yourself with.   (I do read many Russian language websites.  Some are ultra nationalist, some are not.) I know of no individual in Ukraine who uses the term Nazi to identify him or her self.   It is a condescending and derogatory term.

As for perspectives that don't match my own, I read them and consider them every day.  So if that was an insult you were attempting to lay at my feet .... water off a duck.

I happen to be running a little out front of actual events in my responses and their timeline.  If you could not see the military confrontation that is now, you will have no choice but to accept it tomorrow.  Military action begins.  Ukrainians and Russians die.  That is the extreme that you were promoting by having Russian troops on Ukrainian soil.  While you may say that you hope for no bloodshed, the simple fact that Russian troops are in Ukraine warrants that bloodshed.  Your agreement with their positioning on Ukrainian soil makes you an extremist.

Die_cast, I don't believe you are for war and bloodshed.  I just believe you are incredibly naive.

[Chelseaboy]

BBC news now reporting that Russia denies making the ultimatum.

[jone]

Good. 

The simple fact is that they cannot afford to have a 'Brest Fortress' in Krim - where they are the Germans.

[steveboy]

I suggest everyone on here signs up to the WI, thats the "Womens institute" in the Uk, because it sounds more like a WI meeting here every day.

You know Russian and Ukrainian women all have one thing in common, they don't like weak whimpering men. Your not doing much for the image of men searching for a FSUW here what so ever.

[LAman]

BC,

    Thanks for the link..interesting co-incidence on the exact same time of day.

Strange thing is it's being reported as breaking news on the BBC,although they do say no confirmation from Moscow.

Another reason to not get most of your info from 'breaking news' on BBC....
Things are happening much too quickly.

[LAman]

 
I happen to be running a little out front of actual events in my responses and their timeline.  If you could not see the military confrontation that is now, you will have no choice but to accept it tomorrow.  Military action begins.  Ukrainians and Russians die.  That is the extreme that you were promoting by having Russian troops on Ukrainian soil.  While you may say that you hope for no bloodshed, the simple fact that Russian troops are in Ukraine warrants that bloodshed.  Your agreement with their positioning on Ukrainian soil makes you an extremist.

 

Jone, mind if I run a little in front of you?
In my rose colored glasses......
There will be more 'bloodshed' on Mayden than there will be in Crimea.
The confrontation between troops is a 'stand down' only.
I only hope someone does not do anything foolish....and yes it can possibly escalate.

[Muzh]

Latest from BBC news.

Ukraine government says they have been given an ultimatum by Russia that unless their forces on Crimea surrender by 5am local time tomorrow,then military force will be used by Russia.

That would be supremely stupid.

[Muzh]

After going through all these pages, I can't believe the nationalistic ignorance on all three sides. Actually, four sides.
 
Thank god no one has access to "the button."

[jone]

Jone, mind if I run a little in front of you?
In my rose colored glasses......
There will be more 'bloodshed' on Mayden than there will be in Crimea.
The confrontation between troops is a 'stand down' only.
I only hope someone does not do anything foolish....and yes it can possibly escalate.

I hope you're right about more bloodshed on Maidan then in Crimea.

[Chelseaboy]

BBC news now saying the Russian defence ministry says ultimatum reports are utter nonsense and that they will never start the use of military force against their brothers in Ukraine.

[Muzh]

Jone, right now there are some higher ups who are starting to realize what just happened and are taking a chill pill.
 
I mentioned it before and many others have said it too, Ukraine is NOT Georgia. In so many ways.
 
No one took the bait and that means back to the drawing board.
 
My calculations are that Russia now realizes the price of it's cost benefit analysis. IF cooler heads prevail, much of this chest thumping will tone down. That is a big IF. But, I think Russia wants to minimize its costs. Of course there will be no apologies. Still, IF there is no army incursion in Eastern Ukraine, then Russia miscalculated badly and ended up with a more unified Ukrainian country.

[Muzh]

Case in point, Ruspetro, a London-listed, but Russia-focused, oil exploration company shares fell 10 per cent on Monday as the row over Crimea escalated into the worst east-west diplomatic crisis since the end of the Cold War.
 
This is known as "Risk Perception."

[jone]

I would hope to agree with you Muzh. 

Quite honestly, I don't believe that the leadership in Kyiv has taken things to a logical conclusion either.  The first action the new government should have done is call in Vladimir Vladimirovich and told him that they were displacing corruption, not the Russian influence in their country.  They erred.  Badly.

Can you imagine a change of leadership in Canada that, all of a sudden, thinks that the relationship with the United States is the worst thing in the world?  The reason I put up the thread of Leninfall was to show how disrespecting of Russia the new regime was.

Ultimately, there needs to be a unity government that reaffirms fealty to the Russian heritage people living in Ukraine.    That is the answer for the short term.   The longer term is much more cloudy.

[justme100]

So far unconfirmed report even by UA ministry..



http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-79502318/

Truth or crying wolf. We'll find out in the morning.

It is confirmed. Brother of my best friend serves in the Belbek airport. He called about an hour ago. They were told they have time to surrender till 5 in the morning, or they will be attacked with full armed force. The chief of the airport told they won't surrender and will stand till the last.

[pokerintherear]

It is confirmed. Brother of my best friend serves in the Belbek airport. He called about an hour ago. They were told they have time to surrender till 5 in the morning, or they will be attacked with full armed force. The chief of the airport told they won't surrender and will stand till the last.

The same reports are starting to trickle out of some US news agencies. But I cant find a link on Wiki to confirm.

They were saying 3:00 am.

[justme100]

Very difficult situation is now happening next to the Navy headquarters in Sevastopol. This morning new chief commander assigned by Kiev instead of Berezovskiy who was proclaimed a traitor arrived to the headquarters and told the officers they have to keep serving Kiev and obey its commands. All the officers were gathered and made to sing aloud the himn of Ukraine. RF militarymen were later expelled from the territory.
Right this moment there is a huge crowd next to one of the entries to the headquarters warcity, local people keep arriving. They all shout claiming the officers refuse to obey Kiev.

By the way, BBC reporter had hard times as he was accused in provocation by locals and police had to help him escape.

[Chelseaboy]

The BBC just reports the news,it didn't ask the Russians into Ukraine.

If any Ukrainian blood is spilled now,that's on the hands of the pro-Russians/extremists who invited the Russians into their country,based on falsehoods instigated by Russia and it's state controlled tv.

Meanwhile the "great" UK government will be using no military force or economic sanctions against Russia,and will not be involved in any NATO discussions .A few visa bans and some asset freezing and that's it.

You guys from the USA have a pop at Obama,but our PM Cameron,who's government wasn't even elected by the way,is just as lacking in cojones.

So much for the agreement signed to get Ukraine to give up it's Nuclear weapons...all three countries responsible are reneging on it.

[justme100]

People of Sevastopol are preparing to attack the headquarters with their forces.

[Chelseaboy]

I understand the naval forces are unarmed ?

That was stated by the BBC earlier,though that could be incorrect of course.

Presumably the pro-Russian extremists won't be attacking the Army base at Simferopol with it's tanks.

[justme100]

I understand the naval forces are unarmed ?

That was stated by the BBC earlier,though that could be incorrect of course.

Presumably the pro-Russian extremists won't be attacking the Army base at Simferopol with it's tanks.

armed. a little bit, but armed. Several tanks on the territtory of the headquarters as well. would you shoot at your brother and wife on the other side of the gate?

[Chelseaboy]

I would hope my wife and brother wouldn't be attacking me...she wouldn't be my wife much longer..

What kind of fanatics attack their own family ?

No wonder the UK won't get involved.

[justme100]

BBC about "peaceful and nonarmed" protestors in Kiev. Pay attention on the Swastika symbols on their clothes(

[justme100]

I would hope my wife and brother wouldn't be attacking me...she wouldn't be my wife much longer..

What kind of fanatics attack their own family ?

Well, your hopes are your hopes, but what is the direct answer to the question-would you shoot? They won't I think. Their mothers, wives and so on are among this crowd asking them to surrender.

[Chelseaboy]

Well at least you now know the BBC trys to tell everything that goes on..if I've done nothing else you will now know our news is not all propaganda and it trys to show both sides of the story.

Get your friends and collegues there to look at the BBC for their info.

As for those far right groups..shocking,and now I understand why the ethnic Russians are scared..so thanks for that justme100

How many of those extremists are there in Ukraine ?

[Chelseaboy]

No I wouldn't shoot..and I was in the British Armed forces.

If any of my family physically attacked me though,i would disown them afterwards.