Protesters in Ukraine remind us of the priceless benefits of being EU members

[pokerintherear]

Justme, Your posted video about the far right groups is misleading.

The reports highlight the word "small". The video looks to filmed after the major protests have stopped.

Looks like they have "one" 9mm caliber pistol possible sig sauer model because of rounded top slide.

They pass it from one to another for photo ops.

[jone]

I was about to say the same thing, PokeInThe Rear. 

If that is their justification for rebelling, they should look at the actual make-up of the government.  The United States has similar, extremist, far right groups.  Hell, we still have the Ku Klux Klan.  That doesn't mean that they have any political power.

There is NO ONE in the government who claims responsibility for these people. 

[justme100]

Justme, Your posted video about the far right groups is misleading.

yes, and BBC photoshoped their swastikas as well as their interpreted wrongly their speach from russian. Shame on them

[JayH]

It is just the start of Russian losses. The idea of economic blockade   and seizing/freezing Russian assets is gathering momentum--  hoepfully it will be something  we can jeer about in due course.Ridiculous nationalism is one thing-- but the people who it will cost money to are loyal only to themselves-- and it will be everyday Russians who do the suffering for Putins stupidity.


"Day confrontation with Ukraine cost of almost 55 billion dollars! This is more than the price of the Sochi Olympics. general loss of total capitalization of Russian companies totaled 2 trillion rubles. These are the trades in the stock and commodity market. "It's a 500 billion more than the cost of the Olympics" - written by Russian users Twitter. known as , the Central Bank raised its benchmark interest rate on Monday by 1.5 percentage points - up to 7%, after the ruble fell to a record low. central bank said that its decision is a response to the surge in volatility in financial markets. Index of Russian stock exchange RTS fell by 10.5%. rubles, which fell by almost 10% this year, the dollar fell on Monday to 50 rubles per euro. The fall below 36.4 to the dollar as a record. Commodity prices rose to their highest level in almost six months as opposition in Ukraine intensified fears that energy supplies and agricultural production may be affected. Source: Ukrainian Pravda"

[pokerintherear]

yes, and BBC photoshoped their swastikas as well as their interpreted wrongly their speach from russian. Shame on them

No I doubt they manipulated the photos. But you can see the same swastika signs or clothing at protests in the US regardless of the group. These are also a very small group of people.

[justme100]

online translation from the headquarters place.


http://www.com-press.info

[Chelseaboy]

Report from Odessa just now,huge crowds shouting "Fascists " at each other..In Nikolaev the Lenin statue was pulled down days ago,but now pro-Russian supporters have set up road-blocks and check-points at the entrance to the city.

What a mess.

Why doesn't someone like Klitschko go to the eastern cities and Crimea and start campaigning for votes,banging some heads together between the differing groups,calming people down, and telling  them everyone will have the same rights in the new Ukraine ?

He has no history of previous corruption,he doesn't need the money from being in politics,and he has respect for what he's achieved in life.He's always seemed to be a respectful man when I've seen him talk.I also suspect he's a decent man.

The Berkuts and Police were clearly taking notice of what he was saying after the Maidan protests...he can be a natural leader,just needs to be surrounded by the right people to run the country with him.

[justme100]

.In Nikolaev the Lenin statue was pulled down days ago,but now pro-Russian supporters have set up road-blocks and check-points at the entrance to the city.

What a mess.

Those poor Lenins were pulled down all over the country. Fascists see him as their big enemy.

[jone]

I loved that Lenin statue in Niko.  I have pictures of my dogs sitting in front of it.  It was a travesty that they pulled it down.   I'm glad they didn't get the one in Kharkiv.

I did talk to a couple of the folks who were part of a group that participated in Leninfall.  They claimed that they simply didn't want to be ruled by Moscow anymore and wanted to show their disdain.  I guess it's better than shooting at soldiers in their military bases. 

Keep in mind that Mykolaiv has a large Naval presence there and quite a few military people. 

[justme100]

  I guess it's better than shooting at soldiers in their military bases. 

Yes, agree, it's better for sure, Who is shooting by the way?

[justme100]

officers leave the headquarters of the Navy!

[fathertime]

Maybe because I don't care a dime their complaints? How it influences my life?

It appears the posts regarding who you are have died down,so perhaps you are right.  I made my suggestion, so your point of view wouldn't be doubted on the basis of who you are...anyway carry on please, appreciate your perspective.


Fathertime! 

[JayH]

What a mess.

Why doesn't someone like Klitschko go to the eastern cities and Crimea and start campaigning for votes,banging some heads together between the differing groups,calming people down, and telling  them everyone will have the same rights in the new Ukraine ?

It sure is-unfortunately.The new government would have been totally distracted getting a handle on the true internal situation and were unprepared to handle a new crisis.
It was this piece of opportunism that encouraged Putin to move .Combined with agitators out of Russian and local area support they have been able to feed on general dissatisfaction-to achieve Putins own ends.
For Ukrainians to go from such great hope to despair in days is cruel.Right now--the concern is to hold the territory they now have. To do that--they need western military support urgently-- specifically air coverage.
Without that support the Russians will do as they please-- and my view is that if it actually looks like someone will shoot back effectively(ie not when they have no hope) Putin will prove the wimp that he is.
Ukrainians will fight--be in no doubt about that- I hope they do not have to.

[Hammer2722]

Putin’s Crimea Propaganda Machine To justify its invasion of Crimea, the Kremlin and state-run media went into full fabrication mode this weekend. Here are the lies that Russia is telling its viewers back home. Russia invaded Ukraine over the weekend, justifying its incursion by claming it needed to protect Crimea’s ethnic Russian population from supposed neo-Nazi extremists.  This was pure propaganda, of course—Vladmir Putin has been keen to annex land that used to be part of Russia, as he did in Georgia in 2008, and seems to think that the Ukrainian army will and should immediately surrender to the Russian one.
Still, Putin needed a story to spin, no matter how full of holes, and thus the neo-Nazi claims. But as it turns out, Crimea’s streets are not exactly paved with extremists—a fact that has proven troublesome for Russian state TV channels looking to find token far-right bogeymen. They’ve had to resort to tricks to get the right characters for Russian audiences—making much, for instance, of Sachko Bilyi, a buffoon who visited a local parliament with his AK-47 machine gun. No one in Ukraine thinks much of Bilyi, other than that he’s a clown, but Russian TV is now claiming that squads made up of thousands of Bilyis are terrorizing Ukraine’s civilians and intimidating MPs.
The Russian media also reported on “skirmishes” on the streets of Crimea and showed a video about “extremists in Crimea attacking Russian soldiers.” As it turns out, the video was actually made on February 20, when close to 100 protesters, aid workers and journalists were shot by snipers in Kiev. That day, several cameramen filmed the terror on location—one of them standing nearby for a very long time. When his video surfaced on Russian TV, purporting to be from Crimea, it made many suspect that the cameraman was from Russia and that Russian journalists may have had an arrangement with the snipers so that they wouldn’t draw fire.
For additional help manufacturing scenes of outrage, Russian provocateurs in Simferopol organized a nice mise-en-scene for Putin’s propaganda machine. A bus filled with people dressed like paramiliatry fighters, toting machine guns and grenade launchers, were filmed by Russian journliasts. It appeared instantly on the Internet and Russian TV channels, labeled as “The Right Sector from the Western Ukraine attacking peaceful Russian citizens and killing soldiers in Crimea.” But if one looks closely, it is possible to make out several important details: the bus from ‘the Western Ukraine’ in fact has a Crimean license plate number, and the fighters are armed with GM-94 grenade launchers and AK-100 machine guns, which are only used by Russian soldiers. Another question: how did Right Sector extremists manage to get to Simferopol on a big bus after all the roads to Crimea were blocked three days ago by armed police and Russian soldiers? Several jounralists tried to pass through the cordons, but in vain. Apparently only armed fighters and extremists can get permission to go to Crimea. Later, Russian consul general Vyacheslav Svetlichnyi dismissed reports of casulaties amongst Russian citizens and soldiers in Crimea as mere rumor.
Then there was the story about how a local state administration in Kharkiv hoisted a Russian flag instead of a Ukrainian one on the local parliamentary building. The rumor went viral thanks to a 25-year-old blogger in Moscow, nicknamed Mika Ronkainen. “Right now! Kharkiv administration was set free and the Russian flag was hoisted. Guess by whom?” he wrote on his social network account. Later, journalists established that Ronkainen likes to be photographed in Nazi uniforms and takes part in the Putin-supported Russian xenophobic movement “Locals”. Apparently the real story was that several buses of Russian “tourists” were taken to Kharkiv to imitate local populations showing enthusiastic support for Russia. They not only hoisted Russian flags, but reportedly beat Ukrainians who expressed indignation at Russian aggression in Crimea.
 <blockquote>   Lines and crowds at border checkpoints are very hard to fake, so Russian TV instead filmed the line next to the border checkpoint with Poland, labeling it as “thousands of Ukrainains running away to Russia from the far right.”</blockquote> Among the other potent, but false, myths of the Putin propaganda machine: that panicked Ukrainians are fleeing en masse to Russia to escape the new government in Kiev, and that the Ukrainian army is unfit for combat and soldiers are defecting to the Russian side.
As for the former, lines and crowds at border checkpoints are very hard to fake, so Russian TV instead filmed the line next to the border checkpoint with Poland, labeling it as “thousands of Ukrainains running away to Russia from the far right.” (Ukrainian journalists figured out the real location by noticing that a plate on the checkpoint listed the name of the city of Shegyni, which is on the Polish border.)
  </ins></ins></ins> And as for the Moscow propagandist rumor that Ukrainian soldiers are clamoring to become Russian citizens, the only ones who seem eager to join Russia’s side are the Berkut riot policement, the ones allegedly involved in the mass murder of protesters in Kiev. Russian citizenship for them is the only hope for salvation from criminal prosecution and prison. Meanwhile, even as the Russian media is reporting that “Ukrainian soldiers went over to the Crimean authorities’ side peacefully and without any shots fired…the majority of them will swear allegiance to local authorities,” in the Ukrainian media, one in fact discovers that several Crimean regiments were approached by the Russian army and that they refused to lay down arms.
No one in Ukraine or in the West doubts that the Russian invasion was provoked by anything other than Putin’s desire to reestablish the USSR 2.0. But every invader wants to look like a liberator, and in order to do so, Putin needs his scary extremists, his scared Ukrainians and his Crimean soldiers welcoming him with open arms. Meanwhile, the question now is: what will Putin do with his army in Ukraine? We can only hope the Russians shoot down their own myths and delusions, and not the local population.

[jone]

Hammer,

Many of these items are independently verified already.  That Polish border crossing was a joke.

In the days of the Soviet Union, there was no one there to challenge the official version.  Now, investigative journalists can show it for what it is.  I would not be surprised if the 'Nazi' thugs everyone has been filming are actually paid provocateurs like the other fake scenarios being presented - paid directly by Russian authorities.

This is a major disinformation campaign, attributed directly to the Russians.  People don't actually do that - spring up overnight like this.  I only wish people would begin to figure out what is real and consider the reality of what scares them.

[JayH]

About what you would expect from Putins Russia so concerned about it's own citizens rights to be heard..

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26337693

[steveboy]

Anyone know this guy?

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Arseni_Jazenjuk_on_Maidan_greeting_the_right-wing_Swoboda-Party_with_Hitler-Nazi_salute.jpg

[JayH]

This would be a start-- freeze and threaten confiscation -  that will get the attention of those who can influence Putin !!
Remove visa access to the west-- that would have an impact in 5 minutes !!

"The U.S. Senate is discussing the freezing of assets of the Russian Federation and the abolition of visas for Russians
Republicans demand immediate solutions, the Democrats want to coordinate all EU.
U.S. Senate is considering imposing sanctions against Russian banks. This also refers to the freezing of assets of Russian state institutions and private investors. Disseminates relevant information radio station "Voice of America". According to Senator Chris Murphy, the upper house of the U.S. Congress is also considering banning the issuance of visas to Russians. Murphy is chairman of the Senate subcommittee on European Affairs. All these sanctions are connected with the recent actions of Russia in regard to Ukraine, said the politician. In turn, the Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid said that Congress should not make a decision on sanctions against Russia without consultation and consent of the European Union"

[JayH]

http://www.news.com.au/world/ukraine-russia-says-surrender-crimea-or-face-allout-assault/story-fndir2ev-1226844230261


Ukraine must surrender ‘or else’  -
 
Ukraine: Russia says surrender Crimea or face all-out assault
1 HOUR AGO MARCH 04, 2014 11:03AM



A FULL-SCALE military assault of the southern and eastern parts of the Ukraine appears inevitable this morning as Russian troops begin crossing the Ukraine border en masse as US President Barack Obama makes another appeal directly to Russia not “to put itself on the wrong side of history”.
This morning three truck loads of Russian troops seized control of the ferry port between Crimea and Russia and within hours Russian troops began making the crossing. There are reports a column of armoured personnel carriers are also forming in Russia preparing to cross the narrow 4.5km wide and 19km long strait.
In other parts of southern Ukraine hundreds of troops believed to be Russian but wearing no insignias surrounded other Ukrainian military installations and also used a war ship to block the Crimean harbour. There were reports the Ukrainian navy had been ordered to surrender by later today or be fired upon but Russian officials denied such a specific threat was made.
Acting Ukrainian Defence Minister Ihor Tenyukh said about 16,000 Russian servicemen were currently on Ukrainian territory; the US put the figure closer to 6000. At any rate, the Ukraine military confirmed practically all its military bases, navy yards and airfields in the Crimea were now surrounded.
Russian aircraft have also now begun flyovers over Ukraine territory.
Russian forces have also reportedly intermittently blocked mobile phone services in Crimea while in Ukraine’s east, pro-Russian demonstrators have stormed the regional government building in Donetsk, the home city of deposed Yanukovych. Some fear Russian troops will support their action.

[tfcrew]

 

[Hammer2722]

Anyone know this guy?

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Arseni_Jazenjuk_on_Maidan_greeting_the_right-wing_Swoboda-Party_with_Hitler-Nazi_salute.jpg

Seriously dude???? The camera caught him as he was raising his hand to wave. Its pretty obvious from the blurred motion of the photo. Anyone with half a brain can tell that....

[pokerintherear]

Seriously dude???? The camera caught him as he was raising his hand to wave. Its pretty obvious from the blurred motion of the photo. Anyone with half a brain can tell that....

Everyone except propaganda lieutenants

[BillyB]

It is just the start of Russian losses. The idea of economic blockade   and seizing/freezing Russian assets is gathering momentum--  hoepfully it will be something  we can jeer about in due course.

Don't be as naive as Obama. Putin isn't dumb and he expected sanctions for entering south Ukraine. When Putin learns sanctions are the only thing the West will use instead of military force, he will want more than a slice, he'll want the whole pie. Putin expects to get punished by the world community so he'll make up for it elsewhere. Poland recently put it's military at the border. The know what Russian leaders are capable of. Ukraine may not be the only stop. Before Hitler started war, he annexed some countries. The world community was weak to stop Hitler so he went after more. Putin may want more too. America should honor our security agreement with Ukraine and park troops there. Putin is smart, not crazy, and he won't enter into a fight he can't win.


Did sanctions work on North Korea, Iran, and Cuba? NO. Their leaders live rich while their population suffers. As for North Korea and Iran, it's not a question of "IF" they will get nuclear weapons, it's a question of "When" because sanctions don't work but that's all the world community will do. Putin knows this and knows it won't work on him. Most Russian people support him and are willing to suffer in support of his actions.

[Hammer2722]

Everyone except propaganda lieutenants

I agree. I'm starting to doubt this guy is even a Brit. LOL

[Chelseaboy]

Obama at last makes his move against Russian tyranny.

The USA  is suspending military exercises with Russia.

That'll teach Putin a lesson he won't forget in a hurry.

Britain and the USA ..lions led by lambs.