Women with Children - more strongly worded advice

[Slumba]

This thread is like a microcosm of all the RWD/RUA etc. forums I have been on.

White knighting, histrionic personality disorder on display - check.

MOBer stereotypes, a guy acting a bit like a stereotype - check.

Ticked off FSUW taking the woman's side automatically - check.

Hypocritical double standards concerning drugs legal and illegal and other vices - check.

Hysterical reference to American gun culture (a pellet gun in this case) - check.

Projection, excessive inferences drawn from the barest of information, mis-quoting, character assassination - check.

 

[Muzh]

Ask her.  She left him alone with a computer for several hours while she slept.  He told me the site just popped up, and when he tried to close it another one popped up.  She made a big deal of it, he was in tears when he told me about it.  I imagine she put a big guilt trip on him.  Poor kid.

You didn't tell me HOW. For a woman who is actually turned off by porn, I SERIOUSLY doubt that the cookies in her computer contain all the information needed for a what, 10, 9, 7 year old child to go porn surfing. He HAD TO KNOW how to get there.
 
Okay, so now, again. Please tell me how he knew.
 
Need a shovel? The hole is getting deeper.
 
See Daveman? This is called cruising in Egypt.

[GQBlues]

....Only baseless because it shows a flaw in your argument.  The ends justifies the means according to you.  I disagree.  I got through college working almost full time and student loans.  Supposedly she also has student loans....

At your leisure, show me exactly where did SP dealt with drugs where people died because of it. Take your time. 

As for the stripping, based on what I read, again unless I'm mistaken, stripping was introduced to SP through jmana's sister who already was stripping for money. Based on the income/marriage situation at the time, what normal 19-20 (foreign - likely one who didn't know any better) women who wouldn't had seen just the 'money' temptation of it all considering money was at a premium and with a new born son during their tumultuous marriage AND having your husband actually support it because finding another means for supplemental income in lieu of is not even a consideration..

...She may have done great stuff to better her life, but her posting, in this thread, tell me not to believe what she says.  Just like I don't believe jmana's posts.  I certainly wouldn't believe a man coming here and saying these types of things about his ex.

Neither do I, especially when a guy demonizes the 'woman' about ALL the ills that happen in their relationship 9read his previous posts prior to SP's arrival). Thus, it is good when the other side of the story comes forth. One need not necessarily take either of the version but rather find the balance and the most logical overview into the matter.

Bottom line is, he petitioned to support the woman he hardly knew when he filed for the visa. How many men involved in this adventure who has no freakin' clue what that 'support' realistically mean?

[LiveFromUkraine]

You didn't tell me HOW. For a woman who is actually turned off by porn, I SERIOUSLY doubt that the cookies in her computer contain all the information needed for a what, 10, 9, 7 year old child to go porn surfing. He HAD TO KNOW how to get there.
 
Okay, so now, again. Please tell me how he knew.
 
Need a shovel? The hole is getting deeper.
 
See Daveman? This is called cruising in Egypt.

Cookies has nothing to do with popups.

[Muzh]

And why don't you ask yourself, here's a woman who claims to be totally turned off by porn, but as long as she is getting paid for it doesn't mind taking all her clothes off for complete strangers??  And if they pay her extra will even grind her knee in their crotch?  Things that make you go hmmmm.....

I think we were talking about a minor surfing for porn. Where did he learned how to do that?
 
Also, how do you know how to pay more when you grind your knee in some stripper's crotch? Was that a fiver or a tenner? Seems to me experience talking.

[jmana]

I'm just curious, gentlemen.

How old were all you when you saw your first Playboy?  If memory serves me correctly, I was around 12 years old.  Boy, was that a wondrous experience.  Couldn't believe things could get better than that.  But they did.

Jmana, we all went through the period of looking at naked women when we were young.  You are correct.  Very few men revert to that, however, after they are married.  But, hell, who am I to say what is right and what is wrong?

NEITHER OF YOU ARE GOING TO ONE UP THE OTHER IN THIS CONVERSATION.  INSTEAD YOU HAVE BOTH PROVEN HOW IMMATURE BOTH OF YOU ARE AND GIVEN A GREAT ROAD MAP TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO DIG DIRT ON YOU IN THE FUTURE. 

QUITE HONESTLY, YOU SHOULD BOTH BE ASHAMED.

It is time to act like grown-ups now and go back to your lives and ignore the other and try to find a future bridge by which you can communicate on behalf your (mutual) son.

Unless, of course, this whole thread was a great made up story for all the readers to get excited about and distract them from the misery that is occurring in Eastern Europe, presently.

The only reason I posted anything in reply to her baseless attacks is because I've been dealing with her lies for the last 6 years.  Every time I think she's finally calmed down and moved on with her life, she rears her ugly head again, and I get sick of it.  I get tired of constantly having to defend myself.  She needs to get over whatever version of the past she has concocted, and move on.  And she needs to stop accusing me of stuff that isn't true.  I've never once told the truth about her to our son, because I don't want him to know what she is, I'd rather him have this ideal vision of her even if it isn't real, than for him to know what kind of person she really is.  But she has no problem telling him crap that I did before I even met her, yeah I'm not proud that I got arrested for having pot, especially since I don't even like it, but she continues to bring it up, 16  years later!!  And she still holds onto printouts of every website I looked at....10 years ago!  Come on, why??  It's time to let it go already.  That's why I reply to her, because this nonsense needs to stop, and until enough people tell her to move on and get over it, she's going to continue to do this to me every year or so, at least that seems to be her schedule.  Every time I'm in a relationship she does it, always tries to stick her face in it and dredge up this same tired stuff.  I know why she's posting all this, she thinks Alina will find it.  That's her end goal in all this.  So what am I supposed to do?  Just sit back and let her post lies about me and not tell the truth?  No way, like other people have pointed out, she is a liar.  She says I'm a great dad one minute, then the next I'm Jerry Sandusky.  But that's what I've been dealing with, I'm used to it, but it's got to stop because when she is accusing me of rape, child molestation, watching child porn, yeah I'm not going to put up with that and I will prosecute her for slander.  This is over, I'm done dealing with it, and it stops now.

[jmana]

I think we were talking about a minor surfing for porn. Where did he learned how to do that?
 
Also, how do you know how to pay more when you grind your knee in some stripper's crotch? Was that a fiver or a tenner? Seems to me experience talking.

It's called a private dance, which she did many.  And he wasn't "surfing for porn".  He was looking up words, one of them was similar to porn, I don't even remember what it was now, but he clicked on it and that's what popped up.

[Muzh]

Cookies has nothing to do with popups.

Oh, well can you tell me how that works?

[LiveFromUkraine]

At your leisure, show me exactly where did SP dealt with drugs where people died because of it. Take your time. 

Show me where I said she did.  At your leisure.  Stop being obtuse GQ.  You can see based on the context what I was talking about.  I said it many times I don't agree the ends justify the means and used that as an example.

As for the stripping, based on what I read, again unless I'm mistaken, stripping was introduced to SP through jmana's sister who already was stripping for money. Based on the income/marriage situation at the time, what normal 19-20 (foreign - likely one who didn't know any better) women who wouldn't had seen just the 'money' temptation of it all considering money was at a premium and with a new born son during their tumultuous marriage AND having your husband actually support it because finding another means for supplemental income in lieu of is not even a consideration..

Neither do I, especially when a guy demonizes the 'woman' about ALL the ills that happen in their relationship. Thus, it is good when the other side of the story comes forth. One need not necessarily take either of the version but rather find the balance and the most logical overview into the matter.

You are basing the support on southpaw.  Jmana said he didn't support it.  He hoped it was something she would try and stop quickly.


I tend to believe jmana was making her feel guilty about money since it is obvious he is money oriented.  I don't know if he support the stripping or not but I do feel he was too complacent about the idea.  He should have manned up more.


This goes back to the question I asked Muzh.  He said he would stop his sister but how do you really stop someone if they made up their mind to do something.  They are adults and can choose even if it may end up becoming a mistake.  So if she did want to strip, like jamana claimed, there is nothing he could do to stop her.


I feel if the person has made up their mind you either have to support them or leave.  If this was based on bringing additional money in (guilting someone is bad for everyone that needs this spelled out), there could have been alternatives discussed instead of hoping she would quit quickly.


I don't believe he was sitting around all day whacking off at porn.  I also don't believe guys in the strip clubs were whacking off at the strippers.   


Of course my views are not so dramatic and entertaining as some.

[Southpaw1982]

I don't know what he was searching for, he said he was looking up other words, not "porn", and I tend to believe him over you.  But the fact remains, no matter what he was searching for, the only place he actually looked at a porn website, was at your place.   I had filters put on his laptop so he couldn't look at that kind of stuff.  So stop beating a dead horse.

Ok, I will post it one here if you want a dog and a pony show... I am not f ing scared!!

[GQBlues]

The only reason I posted anything in reply to her baseless attacks is because I've been dealing with her lies for the last 6 years.  Every time I think she's finally calmed down and moved on with her life, she rears her ugly head again, and I get sick of it.  I get tired of constantly having to defend myself.  She needs to get over whatever version of the past she has concocted, and move on.  And she needs to stop accusing me of stuff that isn't true.  I've never once told the truth about her to our son, because I don't want him to know what she is, I'd rather him have this ideal vision of her even if it isn't real, than for him to know what kind of person she really is.  But she has no problem telling him crap that I did before I even met her, yeah I'm not proud that I got arrested for having pot, especially since I don't even like it, but she continues to bring it up, 16  years later!!  And she still holds onto printouts of every website I looked at....10 years ago!  Come on, why??  It's time to let it go already.  That's why I reply to her, because this nonsense needs to stop, and until enough people tell her to move on and get over it, she's going to continue to do this to me every year or so, at least that seems to be her schedule.  Every time I'm in a relationship she does it, always tries to stick her face in it and dredge up this same tired stuff.  I know why she's posting all this, she thinks Alina will find it.  That's her end goal in all this.  So what am I supposed to do?  Just sit back and let her post lies about me and not tell the truth?  No way, like other people have pointed out, she is a liar.  She says I'm a great dad one minute, then the next I'm Jerry Sandusky.  But that's what I've been dealing with, I'm used to it, but it's got to stop because when she is accusing me of rape, child molestation, watching child porn, yeah I'm not going to put up with that and I will prosecute her for slander.  This is over, I'm done dealing with it, and it stops now.

Where, prior to SP's appearance, did you once admitted here that watching porn took over your attention while married to her (you words) because in your mind just because she's pretty doesn't mean you want to have sex with her (paraphrased), which contributed to, or one of the reasons why, the demise of your marriage.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Oh, well can you tell me how that works?

Popups are typically done via javascript.  You have to be on the site for the javascript to run on the browser.  Cookies only contain data. 

[Daveman]

Watching PORN?
 
Why is everybody ignoring this??

Definitely not ignoring it.  However, for a 12 year old boy to sneak and look at pictures of naked women at 12 years old sure was pretty normal when I was 12.  I guess I was lucky as I had a girl my own age in the neighborhood with whom to play "doctor".  I can't think of a single friend who didn't have an older brother's hand me down Playboy or something.  Of course, we didn't have the wide variety of some truly over the top bizarre options when we were 12 as are available on the NET today.

Yeah, my and her parents would have crapped golden neanderthal bricks of wrath had they known we were checking each other out, or if we were looking at nakedness.  The point being, that the kid's behavior is more normal than not. It *will* happen with young boys, and the best we can do is to curtail it as much as possible and have those "chats" with them. 

Notice though, that both claim it occurred on the other's watch, and both claim to have the proof.

Actually, I don't think they are "victims" at all. I also do believe that southpaw poo-pooed the term and asked to be known as a fighter and survivor. Not close to being a victim.
 

Of course but her entire story *is* claiming to be forced into situations:

Forced to marry when she didn't really want to. 
Forced to get pregnant (because he sabotaged birth control to trap her in marriage)
Forced to be a prisoner because she had a child  (because, remember, he sabotaged birth control for that deliberate purpose)
Forced to be a stripprr.
Forced to leave her house and child. 

Then continued to be the victim in a second, physically abusive (also forced somehow?) marriage.

She may also be a survivor or fighter as well, but her story here is that of a victim in victimised terminology. 

I think that jmana is a sore excuse of a man. I mean, seriously. Gets "bored" with a virtual teenager and turns to porn to get off. UGH! Now, them his OWN words.

He may very well be. 
 

Now, if I remember correctly, she said from the very beginning that she was way over this and just wanted to make a simple correction of what he said. Then Billy "taunted" her as to be a man about it and she did. Now she is a drug dealing strip-tease scum that should have a restraining order from her son. (I know, hyperbolic but just for sound effects)

The overall story doesn't pass the sniff test.  That's the bottom line for me.
 

I don't see where BOTH are neither mature enough nor ready for the responsibilities of marriage at all. Jmana definitely fits that criteria and he is older than her. However, she seems to be in a steady relationship, knows what she wants and has a head on her shoulder regarding her future. Can you HONESTLY say the same for him?

She was 18 when she married.  The were kids and were not ready for marriage.  Whether or not she (or he) is *now* doesn't change their mentality when they married. 
 

 

And where do you get both are in cruising in a river boat in Egypt? Seriously? Read it again and tell me where she is in denial.

According to her EVERYTHING is his fault - marriage, pregnancy, loss of home/child, stripping...   Really? 
 

Notice that because the woman didn't shut up and knew her place, the swarm fell on her.

I can't speak for a "swarm". For me, the story for either side just doesn't add up completely.
 

Personally, I recognize GQ's MOBer definition as clearly plastered all over these pages.

I can't disagree there. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

Definitely not ignoring it.  However, for a 12 year old boy to sneak and look at pictures of naked women at 12 years old sure was pretty normal when I was 12.  I guess I was lucky as I had a girl my own age in the neighborhood with whom to play "doctor".  I can't think of a single friend who didn't have an older brother's hand me down Playboy or something.  Of course, we didn't have the wide variety of some truly over the top bizarre options when we were 12 as are available on the NET today.

I remember back in the day, my parents had cable.  Part of the cable was playboy television but it was scrambled.  My friend would sleep over and we would turn it on when the parents went to sleep.  Occasionally, you would see something that looked like a breast.  haha

[GQBlues]

Show me where I said she did.  At your leisure.  Stop being obtuse GQ.  You can see based on the context what I was talking about.  I said it many times I don't agree the ends justify the means...

You aren't this dense LIU, You posted an extreme example that was irrelevant to their situation because it never happened or does it apply anymore than SP selling girl scout cookies for money. Thus I called that silly drug sample baseless and irrelevant.

Point proven #3. Devil's advocate usually lack clear sense and conviction behind their silly arguments.

You either stay on topic and discuss it well within the given situation or you simply lack any degree of understanding to make any rational and applicable point to their situation.

...You are basing the support on southpaw.  Jmana said he didn't support it.  He hoped it was something she would try and stop quickly....

If jmana didn't support it, then it never would've happened. Do you agree with that? The fact is, acquiring any other means for income supplemental didn't happen in their marriage, and striping was the only option left.

...I tend to believe jmana was making her feel guilty about money since it is obvious he is money oriented.  I don't know if he support the stripping or not but I do feel he was too complacent about the idea.  He should have manned up more...

I would hazard a guess that very  few decent, respectable married man would entertain allowing their wife strip for the benefit of earning money to pay their bills. I wouldn't, I doubt you would too.

Which now leaves us to what?

...This goes back to the question I asked Muzh.  He said he would stop his sister but how do you really stop someone if they made up their mind to do something.  They are adults and can choose even if it may end up becoming a mistake.  So if she did want to strip, like jamana claimed, there is nothing he could do to stop her....

His sister's business is not his to mind, but his wife's certainly is. He wasn't responsible for his sister's (and family?) life and livelihood. He was responsible for his own family. That excuse (jmana's) is a major cop-out. Because had money not been a problem in their marriage, none of these (stripping) *likely* would've happened (speculation)

...and what did he do while his wife stripped? Stayed home and polished the bishop instead of looking for another job?

...I don't believe he was sitting around all day whacking off at porn.  I also don't believe guys in the strip clubs were whacking off at the strippers...

Dunno. It appears he wasn't doing much at all...

[jmana]

I remember back in the day, my parents had cable.  Part of the cable was playboy television but it was scrambled.  My friend would sleep over and we would turn it on when the parents went to sleep.  Occasionally, you would see something that looked like a breast.  haha

Haha!  I think I was maybe 14 when we got Cinemax, and I realized they had some really R rated stuff on late at night.  I stayed up one night to watch it but got caught and that was the end of that! 

[Faux Pas]

I think we were talking about a minor surfing for porn. Where did he learned how to do that?
 
Also, how do you know how to pay more when you grind your knee in some stripper's crotch? Was that a fiver or a tenner? Seems to me experience talking.

C'mon Muzh, one thing you don't need or have to teach a 10-12 year old boy is how to find porn. Most could probably teach you and I where the good porn is. Things haven't changed much in the last 500 or so years about adolescent sexual curiosity

[LiveFromUkraine]

You aren't this dense LIU, You posted an extreme example that was irrelevant to their situation because it never happened or does it apply anymore than SP selling girl scout cookies for money. Thus I called that silly drug sample it baseless and irrelevant. Point proven #3. devil's advocate lack a clear sense and conviction behind their silly arguments.

You eithet stay on topic and discuss it well within the given situation or you simply lack any degree of understanding to make any rational and applicable point to their situation.

Stripping for "College" is also an extreme position.  At least it is for me while if paying for college and bettering yourself is the main goal, subjecting yourself to an unhealthy profession certainly is counterproductive to your end goal.


You trying to make it like stripping is "ok" if she did it to further her education shows your lack of understanding.  There is no reason she couldn't have worked a normal job and used student loans (which she already has).  She wasn't paying child support back then and only had to worry about herself.


I did it and most other college educated people have. Stop trying to make her choice as some kind of survival story.


As for him supporting it or not, I already stated that I am not sure.  His complacency certainly would make it look like he supported it even if he was saying otherwise.  I don't disagree he shouldn't have done more to keep her out of stripping if the reasons were because of money.   That isn't even in question.


She still went back to stripping part time while she was married to another man.  Jmana had nothing to do with that.

[jmana]

C'mon Muzh, one thing you don't need or have to teach a 10-12 year old boy is how to find porn. Most could probably teach you and I where the good porn is. Things haven't changed much in the last 500 or so years about adolescent sexual curiosity

Yeah really.  I would say that about most kids his age, but he's not like that.  He still hides his eyes when he sees boobs in a movie

[GQBlues]

Stripping for "College" is also an extreme position.  At least it is for me while if paying for college and bettering yourself is the main goal, subjecting yourself to an unhealthy profession certainly is counterproductive to your end goal....

But stripping for money because your hubby is not in-tuned to making sure a full provision for his family is?

...You trying to make it like stripping is "ok" shows your lack of understanding.  There is no reason she couldn't have worked a normal job and used student loans (which she already has).  She wasn't paying child support back then and only had to worry about herself....

I'm not making anything sounds kosher or otherwise. What I am saying is, UNDER the circumstances, she chose a path (lawful) to better herself which YOU demonize as though it was an easy way out. Maybe it was for her, maybe it wasn't. She'll have to answer that herself.

if I worked at Chippendale's to see my way through college and life instead of those silly 3 part-time jobs I had to do, hell yes, I would've done it. 

...I did it and most other college educated people have. Stop trying to make her choice as some kind of survival story....

Well, maybe you'll have to excuse me for that because the gal was 23-24 (?), in a bad marriage, in a foreign country, no support system. no relatives...stripped for life and education...and now she's a contributing member of this society and had assumed support for her child.

So yeppers...in more ways than one, she indeed survived.

[jone]

GQ,

You would have gotten paid more at Jumbo's Clown Room.  I did.

[LiveFromUkraine]

But stripping for money because your hubby is not in-tuned to making sure a full provision for his family is?

I'm not making anything sounds kosher or otherwise. What I am saying is, UNDER the circumstances, she chose a path (lawful) to better herself which YOU demonize as though it was an easy way out. Maybe it was for her, maybe it wasn't. She'll have to answer that herself.

if I worked at Chippendale's to see my way through college and life instead of those silly 3 part-time jobs I had to do, hell yes, I would've done it. 

Which hubby?  She ended up stripping while in two marriages apparently. 


Yes, smoking pot is legal in some states now as well yet some are demonizing Jmana.


Porn is legal as well yet YOU don't have a problem demonizing jmana from watching?


She made a choice to put herself into a bad environment.  You really believe strip clubs are a healthy environment to work in? 


Choosing to become a stripper isn't about bettering yourself.  If she wanted to better herself, there were plenty of other ways to go about it. 


We just gotta disagree on it.   
 

[GQBlues]

GQ,

You would have gotten paid more at Jumbo's Clown Room.  I did.

That was ONE of my part-time job. The benefits weren't up to snuff.

[Southpaw1982]

God is his judge, I can care less what he did to me. He is screwing up my child now.

[Southpaw1982]

Which hubby?  She ended up stripping while in two marriages apparently. 


Yes, smoking pot is legal in some states now as well yet some are demonizing Jmana.


Porn is legal as well yet YOU don't have a problem demonizing jmana from watching?

She made a choice to put herself into a bad environment.  You really believe strip clubs are a healthy environment to work in? 


Choosing to become a stripper isn't about bettering yourself.  If she wanted to better herself, there were plenty of other ways to go about it. 


We just gotta disagree on it.

Not, just marriage with Jmana.

 All that matters, I am not a stripper now and I can support my kid. Strip club had some regulations at least, This weirdo's house did not.