Poll for the unmarried men

[Jet]

I always thought that if a guy comes here and asks questions, maybe he just doesn't know the answers.  But in PG's case, it turned out he had all the answers. Whatever.
KenC

It's sad, but I learned a long time ago that you can't help someone who refuses to be helped. I gave it a shot w/ PG through (non-confrontational) private messages, I tried to get him to agree to a phone conversation, Liliya called his Larrisa while she was still in Ukraine. As you stated, any fault or glory is SQUARELY on his shoulders. The wife and I, as well as many others (Vaugn and his wife come to mind) gave him every opportunity for assistance off the board, and out of the limelight, he overtly declined time and again. Further, if my feeble memory serves me right, every time the dust started to settle ON the board, HE would start sh!t back up again.

[Jet]

Why I sometimes question the “wisdom” of the “old” married members is that it is apt to be:
1.  Based on the experience with primarily one woman
2.  Based on a past relationship that has since metamorphosed into a man/woman kind of thing which may or may not have anything to do with RW or at least the ones whose photos fill these pages.
3.  Based on a woman who can live with a “forum junkie.”
4.  And often, based on a relationship that doesn’t seem to be one of equals (at least if even half of what I read is any reflection).

While there's certainly ammo to argue that position, I find it intriguing that when we meet new AM/RW(UW,BW,KW) couples in real life, old or young, "hot" or "not", rich or poor, even from very diverse backgrounds, there is an ability amongst the husbands to communicate without words. A simple hand gesture or certain smirk and ALL the other husbands understand EXACTLY what's being conveyed - they've all lived it.

[tim 360]

Funny to see the PG guy has become such a focus. I did witness much of it and yes, Jet and many others did try to help the guy. On board and off. I try to refrain from performing autopsies on possibly still warm bodies, but---I can't resist.

PG wanted approval and agreement. His way. He wanted to hear just what he wanted to hear and just the way he wanted it dished out to him. Politely. He wanted a validation of his thoughts and actions.  Aaahhh, don't we all? If he did not get said approval or validation then he did the bi-polar spin of, come and try to take a piece of me. Now truly in real life this is very strange behaviour. On an internet message board it make very little sense at all.

There was one person who did get too rude in describing PG's object of affection and he is no longer here. The whole ugly stuff. Many posters became frustrated because he would not listen to anything which differed from his mindset and posts became increasingly combative because of said frustrations...on either side. Clearly he had some reality/fantasy issues regarding RW as do most men who don't know many do. They get their info from agency website agiprop.

His fate should not be surprising. If you fly your plane like that you are gonna crash. No doubt. He came here not seeking advice as much as he came for approval. Validation. I don't think anyone wishes him ill will, but frustration levels rose greatly from his combative and argumentative posts. Hopefully, upon circumspect reflection the guy will learn something. I hope he does. Happy Trails!

[BC]

Tim 360,

As RWD historian you get my vote.

Quote from: RacerX on Today at 00:24:51

Why I sometimes question the “wisdom” of the “old” married members is that it is apt to be:
1.ďż˝  Based on the experience with primarily one woman
2.ďż˝  Based on a past relationship that has since metamorphosed into a man/woman kind of thing which may or may not have anything to do with RW or at least the ones whose photos fill these pages.
3.ďż˝  Based on a woman who can live with a “forum junkie.”
4.ďż˝  And often, based on a relationship that doesn’t seem to be one of equals (at least if even half of what I read is any reflection).

1. This certainly applies here.. am not going to give a complete bio here but I will say that considering agency 'hype' most if not all does not apply.  I'm sure others around here can confirm the same thoughts.

2. Also applies.  As each year passes, the RW 'uniqueness' fades quite rapidly..  As far as I am concerned this is quite normal and indicative of a healthy relationship and assimilation.  Many around here seem to think short-term when they should be placing greater weight on the long-term.

3. Forum addiction.. well considering what I have learned over the years hanging around It's been well worth the time invested.  I've been able to cull the best from even the most obnoxious posts. I work at home and use little breaks and lulls to post. Living in a third country it also helps keep my english communication skills up to par.  It's an interesting, educational, constructive and often entertaining hobby.

4. You may have a good point here, maybe worthy of it's own thread.  I think quite a few are really looking for a relationship that is not equal and end up in a relationship the opposite of what they expected.. along the lines of 'you get what you pray for' 

Well enough procrastination for now... time to hang the 'out to lunch' sign.. 

[BillyB]

Ken, you're right that PG's failures are going to be his but there was a failure by the RWD community to deliver advice. Most of the show here is performed by the regular posters but I'm sure much of the audience(newbies) will be turned off by the latest of PG's threads. I haven't read any thread of PG's from the past but I believe you when you say people tried to help him in a calm way, that he is stubborn, he attacked people and people were brutal to him. But it still doesn't make sense for the experienced man or the superior man to too waste too much breath, waste time typing, or fighting a poster that has made his decision a long time ago.

[Jet]

But it still doesn't make sense for the experienced man or the superior man to too waste too much breath, waste time typing, or fighting a poster that has made his decision a long time ago.

Billy,
'round about this time last year, I had a real world friend (he reads here but doesn't post) who found himself engaged to what I would classify as a "subsistance scammer". She never went for the big score, but she milked him for what she felt she needed. She also had some mental problems, and a friggin' violent nutcase of an 11 yr old daughter. My buddy's mindset was similar to PGs in that, he saw some red flags but "wanted to be sure". He filed the paperwork and things got more bizzare as time went by. My wife talked to his fiancee and tried to warn him about some of the more serious problems she saw (as an RW speaking with another RW - crap that guys rarely pick up on). In the 11th hour he FINALLY came out of his dream world and called things off IMO saving himself a load of grief that would make Shane Neff's & Maxx's stories look like a Sunday afternoon walk in the park. Later, we got confirmation that it would have been far worse than even my wife and I hypothesized. THAT'S why some of the married guys go a bit overboard with dudes that just won't listen; once in a blue moon you can save just one from making the biggest mistake of their lives.....

[Turboguy]

If you missed the original thread that has been deleted it is hard to really see everything that went on objectively.   What people remember seems to vary a lot.  What I remember has very little similarity to how some of the others remember it.

Frankly I think there is little to gain by rehashing it but I hope people think about what Dan said in his posts.   Frankly PG's hard headedness bothered me a lot less than the thoughtless degrading comments that were made.  I hope we can in the future talk more about ideas and about helping each other and do it with a class and proffeshionalism that some of the posters automatically should have based on their eductation and background but seem to keep hidden in the closet where PG is concerned.

[BC]

Turbo,

Not picking at you but referring back to the original (deleted) thread here is a bit misleading and out of context.. Not only are the authors of posts you refer to as being offensive no longer posting but that Dan's efforts to tone down this type of discourse were effective.  The best evidence of this is:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=936.0

It's actually quite a read, especially the first 10 or so pages (before Photo departed) and includes first and second hand RW input. Many if not most of the posts were quite lovingly crafted, especially when you consider the timing and threadstarters intent.

I find nothing, absolutely nothing that I would consider objectionable if I were the object of affection in this and later threads Doug participated in.

Lets keep things in perspective and realize that RWD membership and attitude is not a 'static' environment but changes and grows over time.

[BillyB]

BC, are you trying to give everyone here a brain hemorrhage with that 25 page monster?  I'll consider reading it later. I had the feeling most of PG's threads are 20+ pages.

Jet, the guy you and your wife helped and the help you offered PG is an admirable thing to do. I don't object to the last ditch effort to help someone behind PM's and phone callskeeping it out of the public view. Your wife's assistance, I'm sure, would greatly help in most any situation. something about women! But most us stubborn men here aren't capable of helping in a way you and your wife can. But we know how to drop the hammer. The hammer is good for the people needing the occasional harsh reality wake up call but if it doesn't work, try something else or stop giving advice all together. If the person needing advice doesn't respond to one type of advice, it's up to the wiser man to change his method of giving it otherwise the wiser man isn't accomplishing his goal in giving advice. When people other than the regulars say PG's thread is a mess, I take their words seriously because they aren't emotionally involved over old issues. They are neutral and giving their unbiased thoughts.

Jet, thinking about that nutcase you helped your friend avoid, she'll eventually find somebody else. I hope that somebody else has good friends to get him to see the light too.

[Bruce]

Dan, how can we see the results of the poll if we do not vote?  The purpose of the poll was to get an inference about unmarried men seeking FSU women. 

[Admin]

Dan, how can we see the results of the poll if we do not vote?  The purpose of the poll was to get an inference about unmarried men seeking FSU women. 

Bruce,

Take a look at the attached screenshot. It shows the option you can select to see the results.

- Dan

[catzenmouse]

Dan,

 I don't see those options.

Ken

[KenC]

Ken, you're right that PG's failures are going to be his but there was a failure by the RWD community to deliver advice.

Sorry Billy, the advice was offered many many times, but never accepted or even considered by PG.  You can only lead a horse to water........ You seem adamant on placing some blame on RWD for not delivering the advice in a pleasant way and I just don't buy it. PG got a lot of friendly advice at first, but then his attitude changed toward the negative. He didn't really want advice from us, he wanted validation of his own ideas.  Some (most?) of us didn't agree with his methods or logic(?). There happens to be many strong personalities on this forum.  I believe that is because of what it takes to be successful in this venture. Strong confident men rarely take any bullsheet from anyone and we didn't from PG. It really is as simple as that.
KenC

[Bruce]

Dan, thanks for the attempt to get the poll results to those who have not voted.  I assume the results will skew in the direction that newbies are looking for advice / recommendations from members who have already been down that particular path. 

[BillyB]

Ken, stronger and even more confident men don't let bullsheet affect them and get tangled up with people dishing crap out. Some people call PG's thread a mess and it was in part created by the RWD community. You don't have to agree but others think so. I never promote anyone to sugercoat their advice but use the right advice at the appropriate time. The kind message many guys have "I'm trying to help PG" got lost with the bickering. If PG spits on your attempts to help him, you need not say more and participate in his World of bullsheet. People can read for themselves and make judgement on the type of person PG is.

[Admin]

Dan,

 I don't see those options.

Ken

If you voted previously, then the options will change.

Ken - did you vote already - and what options DO you see??

- Dan

[catzenmouse]

I didn't vote as I'm not qualified per the Poll requirements. 

I think if the married guys voted it would slant the poll towards people listening to them and paying attention to what they say. No worries, I'll wait until the poll ends and view the results then.

Ken

[BC]

BC, are you trying to give everyone here a brain hemorrhage with that 25 page monster?  I'll consider reading it later. I had the feeling most of PG's threads are 20+ pages.

Yeah I know.. it's a lot to ask but sometimes to get to the truth you have to dig a little.

Might help to jumpstart the discourse you currently have going with KenC..

round and around and around she goes...

[Turboguy]

Yes, but really what does that thread have to do with anything?

[RacerX]

While there's certainly ammo to argue that position, I find it intriguing that when we meet new AM/RW(UW,BW,KW) couples in real life, old or young, "hot" or "not", rich or poor, even from very diverse backgrounds, there is an ability amongst the husbands to communicate without words. A simple hand gesture or certain smirk and ALL the other husbands understand EXACTLY what's being conveyed - they've all lived it.

Yeah, been there done that, and can't say I disagree with anything you or BC have said on the matter.

I think my main point was that with only few exceptions, most of the married guys on this board get their "daily input" from a single FSUW and just like any of the members, whose past day or so of life's experience seems to strongly influence their "on board" persona, a little humility wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.  I have no trouble with people expressing strong opinions, hell I kinda enjoy them, but in many cases it hits me like the scratching of fingernails on a chalk board when they extrapolate from their warm, fuzzy, albeit tiny world and start offering advice like an all knowing RW-sage.

Often, just when I think I know the precise answer to a guy's question, my wife will lean over my shoulder, read what's been written and wander-off shaking her head in disbelief.

Doug is a great example of this since so few of the posters really know anything at all about him.  I've talked with him a bit and I can honestly say I couldn't offer him anything more constructive than a choice of obvious options.

[BC]

Yes, but really what does that thread have to do with anything?

<<-- *rubs eyes* *scratches chin* *checks member map to see if my dot moved into outer space*

.. nothing Turbo, absolutely nothing.....

[KenC]

If PG spits on your attempts to help him, you need not say more and participate in his World of bullsheet.

Billy,
I would agree with this except when PG then tried to spread his "wisdom" to the board in general and the newbies in particular.  That is when I felt it was necessary to point out alternatives and make folly of his "wisdom."  If his strange take on reality went unchecked a newbie might think his views represent the views of this forum and I couldn't allow that to happen.
KenC

[Turboguy]

<<-- *rubs eyes* *scratches chin* *checks member map to see if my dot moved into outer space*

.. nothing Turbo, absolutely nothing.....

My thoughts exactly BC,  buy the time PG developed an attitude and ignored advice he had been though 20 or 30 pages of how ugly and low classed his girl is, what a second rate stupid person he was, how he did not have a chance at happiness and enough more that I won't waste my time going on. 

As far as the statement that the person who made the demeaning statments no longer posting here that is also not true.   Yes, Anono does not post here but he was just one and a minor player in it all.  I can remember details of very nasty posts by people still here.

To me, re-hashing the same old garbage over and over serves no purpose.  Changing history, like the USSR did about things does no good.   The second string of PG posts is out of context unless you can relate them to the horrible treatment he got in the original posts.   The originals are gone.

To me it is time for everyone to go to the blackboard and write ten times Dan's rules of acceptable behavior and to move on or find new material. 

[KenC]

You're right Turbo. We are all responsible for PG's poor behavior!! He never started any trouble. He did everything just perfect. What the hell is wrong with you? You post here every day sticking up for morons like PG. Is it because you are such an utter failure yourself?

I personally cringe when I see you giving opinions because of your futile and often comical attempts at finding a Russian wife. My fear is that someone might mistakenly think you know something of value.

If it is too tough for you here, why don't you start your own forum. Might I suggest the title "RWW"? (Russian Women for Wimps) or maybe something could be made from "How to make 20 trips to the fsu, piss a mountain of money away and still be home alone."
KenC

[catzenmouse]

Was that really called for KenC? We all know that you don't like PG or TG but there is a difference between giving an opinion and being nasty about it.

Ken