The Propaganda War

[Boethius]

No, I have to disagree.  Doll and Belvis are Russian so his point about only Russians thinking it was a civil war was pretty much common sense for everyone here.

But that point was salient.  The only posters here who refer to this conflict as a civil war are Russians, or "pro Russians".

[LiveFromUkraine]

But that point was salient.  The only posters here who refer to this conflict as a civil war are Russians, or "pro Russians".

No, this was the important point. 

Still, I have not seen either of them say they were happy for the war nor have I seen them say they were pro-war.  That is the narrative you and many others are assigning to them simply because they believe it is a civil war.   I get assigned Pro-Russia simply because I won't say what people keep demanding me to say.  If I say don't trust western media, I am also then called Pro-Russian.

When this first happened, I was originally believing this was a civil war as well.  I wasn't Russian nor Pro-Russian. 

haha This forum text size is killing me.

[Boethius]

Different posters will find different things the most important part of a post.


I didn't take the part you quoted as the most important part, but if you want a debate on media, I think your view of Western media is incorrect.

[jone]

Just curious LFU: You said 'when this thing started' you considered it a civil war.  At what point in the timeline did you consider this a civil war and now do you believe it is 'not' a civil war?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Different posters will find different things the most important part of a post.

haha  Yeah, whatever fits their narrative will be singled out instead of taking the whole post in context.  That was one of my points.

I didn't take the part you quoted as the most important part, but if you want a debate on media, I think your view of Western media is incorrect.

I think we already went down that road.  I'm afraid we would only be repeating ourselves but then again that seems to be the case in most threads here. 

[Boethius]

haha  Yeah, whatever fits their narrative will be singled out instead of taking the whole post in context.  That was one of my points.

I disagree with this.  Posters will naturally respond to that which interests them.

I have gone to the website linked.  It appears these were regular army soldiers, who were executed on the spot.  That is a war crime.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Just curious LFU: You said 'when this thing started' you considered it a civil war.  At what point in the timeline did you consider this a civil war and now do you believe it is 'not' a civil war?

Oh, man, I couldn't really tell you what exactly changed my mind.  Even when it was clear Russian equipment was used it was still a question of whether Russian soldiers were on the ground (besides Crimea that is).  Hard to say they are not there when their dead bodies are being shipped back. 

[Doll]

 '

[Boethius]

Oh, man, I couldn't really tell you what exactly changed my mind.  Even when it was clear Russian equipment was used it was still a question whether Russian soldiers were on the ground (besides Crimea that is).  Hard to say they are not there when their dead bodies are being shipped back.

The very first "rebels" were paid mercenaries from Russia, lead by Muscovites.

[Doll]

/

[Boethius]

I have proven it by posting the links, and their names, in the past.  You can search my posts if it interests you.

[JayH]

Call me now and we will talk

Doll-- Taz was referring to calling his friend to see if she is ok-not calling you.

[LiveFromUkraine]

The very first "rebels" were paid mercenaries from Russia, lead by Muscovites.

Bo, did they ever figure out who was behind the sniper attacks in Kiev?  Was that another Moscow thing?

[lordtiberius]

From my understanding, Doll and Belvis believes this is a civil war.  I don't know if they believe Putin is helping the cause or not.


Still, I have not seen either of them say they were happy for the war nor have I seen them say they were pro-war.  That is the narrative you and many others are assigning to them simply because they believe it is a civil war.   I get assigned Pro-Russia simply because I won't say what people keep demanding me to say.  If I say don't trust western media, I am also then called Pro-Russian.

If you guys want some dialog, I suggest stopping these types of labels.  I don't think you really want discussion, though.  This seems to be more of a group of guys who just bitch and show links about the same thing over and over again.  I think some of the guys wishing the worst on all Russians are not any better than the people they condemn.


I hope your friend is safe.


Edited to add: It was my understanding that Ukranian rebels (yeah there really are some) were executing fellow Ukrainians.  Is that not true?  I'm wondering why you think it is only Russian soldiers doing this.

Moral equivalency

haha  Yeah, whatever fits their narrative will be singled out instead of taking the whole post in context.  That was one of my points.



I think we already went down that road.  I'm afraid we would only be repeating ourselves but then again that seems to be the case in most threads here. 

How about yes, you approve or no you don't approve and if you don't approve what should be done and if you do approve, why?  Thx.

[Taz]

ll

Hey, when you learn how to give the links correctly I will probably answer

Doll - On purpose I broke the link so as to not too easily go to graphic content. I thought most people here now that URLs start http:// so easy to fix. Since you had a problem with it I fixed it just for you. 

 

[Taz]

Тазик, ну ты хде? Can't wait for your call on my "cell or home phone"

Sorry Doll, if I had your phone I'd call but it would be a bit difficult at the moment. I am a quite a few thousand meters up in a plane and I don't really want to use my sat phone to give you a call. Internet is somewhat difficult as it is.

[JayH]

Bo, did they ever figure out who was behind the sniper attacks in Kiev?  Was that another Moscow thing?

Quote from: AC on Yesterday at 08:16:13 PM
Oh okay.  Apparently when somebody points out that you are making off-topic posts which have absolutely nothing to do with the situation in Ukraine, a member of the former Soviet Union, which is what this forum is about, and that you are obviously making them to try to deflect from what the Russians are doing in Ukraine, suddenly that person has "emotional problems with anger".

In other words you are guilty of exactly what I described, which is attempting to justify Russia's war of aggression and conquest in Ukraine, by posting more off-topic nonsense.  You obviously don't have the ability to dispute what I've written, so you try to besmirch the character of the messenger (myself).  Any more nonsense you would like to post about this?

Your worthless and irrational argument is called an argument of "moral equivalence".  Straight out of the pro-Russian propaganda book.  But of course it's a failure,

Quote JayH reply-AC--you have hit on exactly the designed strategy attempt that we see across every thread--the ongoing attempt to insult,bait,anger,denigrate etc etc is consistent-- and has been over a long period of time.
Why in earth would anyone persist in taking the 3% chance option on every topic? Feeble attempts to engage and then try and attribute comments and attitudes not being expressed is consistent tactic.
It leaves me seriously interested in the bona fides of quite a few of these people-and the motivation!!" end quote

The example of what he was accused of yesterday-- is there again--I reposted for all to see a typical tactic of all the Russian apologists--it brings their credibility into question on every issue.

[lordtiberius]

I'd agree with those people. 

Birds of a feather flock together jone

[LiveFromUkraine]

I don't blame Doll and Belvis to be honest.  Look at JayH's and LT goof ball posts.  Who wants to grouped in with guys that post nonsense all over this forum.  I'm attempted to fake what I believe just to distance myself from these guys.

[fathertime]

Quote from: AC on Yesterday at 08:16:13 PM
Oh okay.  Apparently when somebody points out that you are making off-topic posts which have absolutely nothing to do with the situation in Ukraine, a member of the former Soviet Union, which is what this forum is about, and that you are obviously making them to try to deflect from what the Russians are doing in Ukraine, suddenly that person has "emotional problems with anger".

In other words you are guilty of exactly what I described, which is attempting to justify Russia's war of aggression and conquest in Ukraine, by posting more off-topic nonsense.  You obviously don't have the ability to dispute what I've written, so you try to besmirch the character of the messenger (myself).  Any more nonsense you would like to post about this?

Your worthless and irrational argument is called an argument of "moral equivalence".  Straight out of the pro-Russian propaganda book.  But of course it's a failure,

Quote JayH reply-AC--you have hit on exactly the designed strategy attempt that we see across every thread--the ongoing attempt to insult,bait,anger,denigrate etc etc is consistent-- and has been over a long period of time.
Why in earth would anyone persist in taking the 3% chance option on every topic? Feeble attempts to engage and then try and attribute comments and attitudes not being expressed is consistent tactic.
It leaves me seriously interested in the bona fides of quite a few of these people-and the motivation!!" end quote

The example of what he was accused of yesterday-- is there again--I reposted for all to see a typical tactic of all the Russian apologists--it brings their credibility into question on every issue.

What a garbled mess of a post.   While you are concerning yourself and moaning about other's credibility YOUR own has been compromised and rightfully so!   People remained entitled to state their viewpoints, whether you like it or not! 


Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

I don't blame Doll and Belvis to be honest.  Look at JayH's and LT goof ball posts.  Who wants to believe the same as someone who would post their usual nonsense all over this forum.

With their collective shrillness they do much harm to the cause they SAY they support...it is best for a person who is pro-Russian to permit them to continue their postings often at the expense of other similar persons with similar viewpoints. 


Fathertime! 

[LiveFromUkraine]

With their collective shrillness they do much harm to the cause they SAY they support...it is best for a person who is pro-Russian to permit them to continue their postings often at the expense of other similar persons with similar viewpoints. 


Fathertime!

I hear you.  Unfortunately this board is now a news aggregate and most discussion is about how happy people are when Russians are killed or harmed because of sanctions. 

[JayH]

"Other inhabitants of Mariupol Nicholas fire collateral in the garage. He fell. Then rose. He sat in the car and drove out of the neighborhood. Only after driving a few miles, I realized that fractured bone in his leg. Full boot blood. But now everything is fine. Just from his sick bed he manages the process of glazing the windows in his apartment. Film, plywood and even tape now on the East array Mariupol repairing the flat almost every family. Collapsed apartment another resident of the city cares. Yesterday morning she begged her husband to find. Asked about his fate as doctors, neighbors and passers-by. Today she found him - in the list of victims. The day after the tragedy in organized resettlement in motels, schools and kindergartens. Volunteers in the neighborhood fired deployed paragraph aid. Here distribute sandwiches and poured tea. Everyone wishing to give blankets, socks and even underwear."
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/ukrayina/mariupol-ogovtuyetsya-obstriliv-gorodyani-remontuyut-oseli-a-40-poranenih-boryutsya-za-svoye-zhittya-405021.html

Civilians being killed and maimed is a clear cut atrocity-- where is any regret ever expressed by these pro-Russian apologists here?

[JayH]

Ukraine holds day of mourning for those killed in Mariupol rocket attack
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/society/1035984-ukraine-holds-day-of-mourning-for-those-killed-in-mariupol-rocket-attack.html

Thirty people were killed and more than one hundred injured in the attacks, which hit the city shortly after 0900 and at around 1300 on Saturday. Officials from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) said Grad and Uragan multiple rocket launcher systems were used in the strikes, which crater analysis indicated were launched from two areas held by Russian-backed militants.
Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/society/1035984-ukraine-holds-day-of-mourning-for-those-killed-in-mariupol-rocket-attack.html

The death toll is over 40 now.

[fathertime]

Civilians being killed and maimed is a clear cut atrocity-- where is any regret ever expressed by these pro-Russian apologists here?

Where is the regret when young Russian men are killed by those pro US involvement?  Where is the regret when civilians may suffer in Russia?  Just hand-clapping (by certain pro-Ukrainian posters)   for that...you don't see the 'pro Russian's' clapping their hands like that so I guess they have a little more empathy!


Fathertime!