The Russian Invasion of Ukraine-The Real Nazis

[GQBlues]

Good night, MOBers. You guys are so easy to spot.

[sleepycat]

Good night, MOBers. You guys are so easy to spot.

From the rest of us MOBers, also goodnight & sweet dreams. 
Maybe address your own issues first rather than stress over everyone else's problems?

p.s. Please do try to be a GOOD SPORT and not get upset. 

[JayH]

Maybe this could be an explanation of where missile came from? Russia has already proven that  it can not be trusted in any way-- and causing mayhem to create propaganda is on the Russian agenda. ( not laughing)

The Russian military plans to use provocation in Ukraine Mig-29 Ukrainian Air Force, captured in Crimea . It was on his Facebook page written by the coordinator of the "Information Resistance" D. TIMCHUK. "Now Loading Ammunition refueling combat aircraft seized at the airport" Belbek ". Earlier, the Russian side gave 37 Ukraine Ukrainian aircraft captured in Crimea, mostly - technically defective. When it came to the transfer of a working aircraft, the Russians stopped abruptly transfer process "- wrote Timchuk. According to the "IE" at the airport "Belbek" Russians are prepared to use 9 MiG-29 (7 - battle 2 - combat training). "These aircraft are Ukrainian markings and equipped with recognition of" friend or foe "as used in the Armed Forces of Ukraine", - said Timchuk. According to him, some of these aircraft is being prepared for use in Crimea, some will overturned to Russia - at the airport in Rostov region. previously reported,  Russia has returned from the Crimea Ukraine airplanes that look more like metal.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/politika/rosiya-gotuye-provokaciyi-z-zahoplenimi-v-krimu-ukrayinskimi-litakami-timchuk-352792.html

[Gator]

OSCE website was hacked today.   

http://au.news.yahoo.com/technology/a/24150033/hackers-target-osce-website/


This occurred shortly after the Moscow news agency RT reported:

The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) also confirmed on Tuesday that the deadly explosion at the city’s administrative building was indeed an airstrike. Kiev has so far denied the responsibility for the incident, saying its forces “do not target” civilian areas.

RT states in the same release without attribution to OSCE:

Kiev has admitted showering the eastern Ukrainian city of Lugansk with dozens of missiles from the air, saying that its Air Force helicopters and jets “fired more than 150 missiles” in Monday’s military action.

If the Ukrainian Air Force indeed fired 150 missiles, it is quite possible that some missed their military target.  That could explain the explosions resulting in the civilian deaths shown in Belvis's video.  However, I would prefer to read the OSCE direct news releases rather than rely on RT,  "....widely accused as being a mouthpiece of the Kremlin."

[Gator]

I have a question. 

How much time lapsed between the explosions at the Lugansk admin building and the release of the video from the nearby security camera?   What would be a plausible lag of time between the two? 

[GQBlues]

OSCE website was hacked today.   

http://au.news.yahoo.com/technology/a/24150033/hackers-target-osce-website/


This occurred shortly after the Moscow news agency RT reported:...

It may well be because there were an unexpectedly huge numbers of hits yesterday that crashed the site. I tried it and it didn't load at all so I had to cached it through Google. I did it again early this morning and it loaded although I think none of the recent reports are logged in as of yet.

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/119479

The report regarding the unguided missile attacks are still on the front page.

edit

Clicked on the link and it is stalling again....so I printed the screen of yesterday's front page:

*Spliced to fit the page*

[Anotherkiwi]

OSCE website was hacked today.   

http://au.news.yahoo.com/technology/a/24150033/hackers-target-osce-website/

Careful, Gator - don't you know that it's a sin to quote Yahoo? 

[LiveFromUkraine]

Careful, Gator - don't you know that it's a sin to quote Yahoo? 

Gator also comments on the articles he posts using his own words. Imagine that!  I guess you don't find it lazy to just post article after article while not contributing to the discussion.


I see you're starting shit again Kiwi.  Now now, you need to start behaving mate.   

[LiveFromUkraine]

If the Ukrainian Air Force indeed fired 150 missiles, it is quite possible that some missed their military target.  That could explain the explosions resulting in the civilian deaths shown in Belvis's video.  However, I would prefer to read the OSCE direct news releases rather than rely on RT,  "....widely accused as being a mouthpiece of the Kremlin."

Unguided missiles at that from my understanding.  That seems to be a hell of a lot of missiles in a urban environment.

[Gator]

Unguided missiles at that from my understanding.  That seems to be a hell of a lot of missiles in a urban environment.

Paraphrasing Willie Sutton - that's where the insurgents are.  This is not conventional warfare.  It is urban guerilla warfare. 

150 missiles is indeed a large number even if guided. I guess Ukraine's jets and helicopters do not have the modern weapons that America uses to take out high value targets.  And consider how many innocent civilians our "guided" missiles have killed in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. 

Unguided missiles depend on the skill of the pilot, who is not attacking on a slow, straight line because the insurgents are known to have ground-to-air missiles. 

One of my good golfing buddies was a copter pilot in Vietnam.  Three tours, shot down twice, lost his entire crew once and his co-pilot in the other.  He is athletic, and he says firing rockets from a helicopter is very inaccurate.

Civilian deaths (collateral damage) happens when insurgents set up inside urban areas and the government wants to extricate them.   The news reports I read suggest that routine life other than at the roadblocks and occupied government buildings in unchanged.  Soccer games are played,  concerts held, normal working hours, etc.  If more of this collateral damage occurs, the civilians may start to evacuate in mass.  Yet I suggest that the insurgents will continue to resist.

I guess the strategy of the Kiev government is to cause casualties among the insurgents, reducing their will power.  This strategy did not work at Maidan.   

[BillyB]

Here's an interesting website that explains things. I'm sure the truth will come out the Ukrainian armed forces didn't unleash those missiles at the government building. The OSCE report is based on LIMITED observations. If you watched Belvis's video, it shows the jet shooting thermal traps to the side of the jet to throw off heat seeking missiles targeting the plane. Offensive missiles shot from the plane would travel forward, not to the side. Also if one watches GQ's video, the missiles that targeted the building are traveling through the woods. I looked hard for any projectiles falling from the sky as if it were shot from a plane. There is none.


If militia are crazy enough to use the civilian population to hide among and conduct their operations, I wouldn't be surprised if they killed a few innocents to frame the government. Putin has given them orders to start a civil war in whatever way that works.

http://ukraineinvestigation.com/ukrainian-plane-attack-state-administration-luhansk/

[GQBlues]

Here's an interesting website that explains things. I'm sure the truth will come out the Ukrainian armed forces didn't unleash those missiles at the government building.....

If militia are crazy enough to use the civilian population to hide among and conduct their operations, I wouldn't be surprised if they killed a few innocents to frame the government. Putin has given them orders to start a civil war in whatever way that works.

http://ukraineinvestigation.com/ukrainian-plane-attack-state-administration-luhansk/.....

Oh WOW! You really got the whole thing figured out! I mean, everyone should've relied on the Right Sector's investigative team for everything Ukraine in the first place. Their investigation of the Kiev sniper was just awesome, too! Imagine that...

Interesting *website that explains things* indeed!

 

[BillyB]

Oh WOW! You really got the whole thing figured out! I mean, everyone should've relied on the Right Sector's investigative team for everything Ukraine in the first place. Their investigation of the Kiev sniper was just awesome, too! Imagine that...

Feeling insecure that site I provided actually used reason in their assessment of what happened compared to the site you used that had a bloggers opinion that the events that happened is clear evidence the government in Kiev ordered it? The blogger's video clearly show the rockets traveling a few feet above the ground and through the trees. He made a mistake and showed a video that is counter productive to his argument. YOU made the same mistake linking that site to us.


Look at the photos in the site I provided. Those rockets couldn't even penetrate the building. Missiles fired from attack jets are much more powerful than those carried by man and are supposed to bust armored vehicles and yet the missiles used on the building couldn't even penetrate brick and mortar.


If you found out Putin ordered warfare in a civilian setting and using dirty tactics to frame the Ukrainian government, would you change your mind about Putin and the whole ordeal? I doubt it. Those Ukrainians deserve what they have coming to them. Ya?

[LiveFromUkraine]

If you found out Putin ordered warfare in a civilian setting and using dirty tactics to frame the Ukrainian government, would you change your mind about Putin and the whole ordeal? I doubt it. Those Ukrainians deserve what they have coming to them. Ya?

Putting words in his mouth now, Billy? A sure sign of losing an argument.


You guys really have the theories going when it comes to Putin. If anyone were to say the same thing about the USA, you would be crying conspiracy crack jobs. 

If it was a missile that was shot from the ground, it was probably just something that went wrong.  I do enjoy the Putin theories that he sent the order to  bomb the building the same time the plane was to fire several unguided missiles.  Putin must be all seeing if he knows when a Ukrainian fighter jet will shoot missiles and have the ground crew time their missiles at the same time. 

The hypocrisy doesn't surprise me though.

[BillyB]

A sure sign of losing an argument.

When I resort to your and GQ's tactics of calling people names, calling them MOB'ers and belittling them, that's when I lose an argument.

[LiveFromUkraine]

When I resort to your and GQ's tactics of calling people names, calling them MOB'ers and belittling them, that's when I lose an argument.

You lost a long time ago.  That is why you use faulty logic, taking comments out of context and putting words into their mouths.

 Your logic wasn't meant for this world, dude, but a reality none has seen but only in our dreams.

[GQBlues]

When I resort to your and GQ's tactics of calling people names, calling them MOB'ers and belittling them, that's when I lose an argument.

That's from YOUR vantage point, BillyB. LOL. Ain't my fault...just calling things as they are. You boysies are doing a great job proving my point day in and day out.

 

>>Ukraine Investigative team...explains things! <<

What a crack-up! The site ask for donations...please tell us you didn't send them money, too!

 

[BillyB]

That is why you use faulty logic,

Logic may seem faulty to you and GQ but you must first possess the ability to understand logic. The video from the link GQ provided clearly shows the rockets traveling through the trees. The video Belvis provided shows thermal flares shooting from the side of the plane. I looked hard for evidence of missiles raining down from the sky,....you know, the place where planes fly? Instead of debating what actually happened as in many previous debates, you and GQ go on attack on a website or posters as usual when you run out of arguments. It doesn't matter if information is coming from Yahoo, Fox News, BBC, Al Jazeera, or a bloggers website, everybody has the ability to tell the truth. Tell me what is wrong with the evidence presented by the site I linked? They've done a better job than anybody on the internet analyzing the location of the plane, the thermal traps, not missiles, shot from the side of the plane, and the minimal damage to the building that is unrealistic compared what a air to surface missile can do.


The OSCE reported what happened based on LIMITED observation. They saw the plane in the sky launching thermal traps. They saw the damage to the building so what are they missing? Obviously it's the same thing we are missing and that's evidence of missiles flying from a plane and into a building. The militants are professional soldiers from Russia. They understand how these things work and locked radar on the plane to threaten a launch and knew the plane would launch thermal flares in response. At that time they likely radioed their buddies hiding in the trees to fire their weapons at the building.

.just calling things as they are.

I've read people calling you a few things but you showed them no respect for telling the truth. Start a poll GQ to find out how likable of a person you are. Not many people would waste their time and have a drink with you in real life.  I remember LiveFromUkraine asking to hook up with you when he's visiting LA. Did it happen or is he beneath you too? When I become a high class person, I may take up your hobby of coming to forums, get extremely emotional to what low level people do and say, and torture them with name calling and allegations.


How about this GQ and LivefromUkraine, lets stick to facts and evidence pertaining to this situation. Show the people here some evidence of projectiles flying down from the sky into the building or show us some holes in the evidence the site is showing that I provided. Ridiculing the site is not going to get rid of the truth. We know how important to you and Putin it is to pin the blame on the fascists in the Ukrainian government.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Logic may seem faulty to you and GQ but you must first possess the ability to understand logic. The video from the link GQ provided clearly shows the rockets traveling through the trees. The video Belvis provided shows thermal flares shooting from the side of the plane. I looked hard for evidence of missiles raining down from the sky,....you know, the place where planes fly? Instead of debating what actually happened as in many previous debates, you and GQ go on attack on a website or posters as usual when you run out of arguments. It doesn't matter if information is coming from Yahoo, Fox News, BBC, Al Jazeera, or a bloggers website, everybody has the ability to tell the truth. Tell me what is wrong with the evidence presented by the site I linked? They've done a better job than anybody on the internet analyzing the location of the plane, the thermal traps, not missiles, shot from the side of the plane, and the minimal damage to the building that is unrealistic compared what a air to surface missile can do.

What is funny is I didn't say anything about your little site even if showing it as evidence makes you look silly. 


I was also the first one that said it looked like it could have been something fired from the park.  I originally didn't think it was from a plane.  Yet, here you are trying to say otherwise.  Must be your faulty reading comprehension that goes along with your illogical nonsense.

The OSCE reported what happened based on LIMITED observation. They saw the plane in the sky launching thermal traps. They saw the damage to the building so what are they missing? Obviously it's the same thing we are missing and that's evidence of missiles flying from a plane and into a building. The militants are professional soldiers from Russia. They understand how these things work and locked radar on the plane to threaten a launch and knew the plane would launch thermal flares in response. At that time they likely radioed their buddies hiding in the trees to fire their weapons at the building.

Ah, Mr 3rd party needs to verify everything, in Ukraine, but never really believe what they say when they do.  First the elections weren't good enough and now this isn't good enough.  Yet, you still think Ukraine needs management help from the west.


More illogical poop from BillyB.

I remember LiveFromUkraine asking to hook up with you when he's visiting LA. Did it happen or is he beneath you too?

haha Are you insane?  I never said anything about hooking up with GQ in LA.   Don't let reality stop you.  Hilarious stuff, man.  That reminds me of you trying to get validation from jmana's ex wife asking if she would have coffee with you.


 I love this forum!

How about this GQ and LivefromUkraine, lets stick to facts and evidence pertaining to this situation. Show the people here some evidence of projectiles flying down from the sky into the building or show us some holes in the evidence the site is showing that I provided. Ridiculing the site is not going to get rid of the truth. We know how important to you and Putin it is to pin the blame on the fascists in the Ukrainian government.

I never said it came from a plane.  Saying I did is typical of your facts, though, hardly surprising.  So how about you stick with the facts. 


With that said, I will believe OCSE until proven otherwise.  It is the best evidence we have that doesn't rely on blaming Putin.  It no doubt makes more sense than Putin shooting a missile from the park at the same time the plane shot their missiles just to make the Ukraine government look bad. 


Again, everything is possible in your little world Billy. 

[GQBlues]

Logic may seem faulty to you and GQ but you must first possess the ability to understand logic. The video from the link GQ provided clearly shows the rockets traveling through the trees. The video Belvis provided shows thermal flares shooting from the side of the plane. I looked hard for evidence of missiles raining down from the sky,....you know, the place where planes fly? Instead of debating what actually happened as in many previous debates, you and GQ go on attack on a website or posters as usual when you run out of arguments. It doesn't matter if information is coming from Yahoo, Fox News, BBC, Al Jazeera, or a bloggers website, everybody has the ability to tell the truth. Tell me what is wrong with the evidence presented by the site I linked? They've done a better job than anybody on the internet analyzing the location of the plane, the thermal traps, not missiles, shot from the side of the plane, and the minimal damage to the building that is unrealistic compared what a air to surface missile can do.


The OSCE reported what happened based on LIMITED observation. They saw the plane in the sky launching thermal traps. They saw the damage to the building so what are they missing? Obviously it's the same thing we are missing and that's evidence of missiles flying from a plane and into a building. The militants are professional soldiers from Russia. They understand how these things work and locked radar on the plane to threaten a launch and knew the plane would launch thermal flares in response. At that time they likely radioed their buddies hiding in the trees to fire their weapons at the building.



I've read people calling you a few things but you showed them no respect for telling the truth. Start a poll GQ to find out how likable of a person you are. Not many people would waste their time and have a drink with you in real life.  I remember LiveFromUkraine asking to hook up with you when he's visiting LA. Did it happen or is he beneath you too? When I become a high class person, I may take up your hobby of coming to forums, get extremely emotional to what low level people do and say, and torture them with name calling and allegations.


How about this GQ and LivefromUkraine, lets stick to facts and evidence pertaining to this situation. Show the people here some evidence of projectiles flying down from the sky into the building or show us some holes in the evidence the site is showing that I provided. Ridiculing the site is not going to get rid of the truth. We know how important to you and Putin it is to pin the blame on the fascists in the Ukrainian government.

The coolest thing about this entire enchilada BillyB...is the sole fact every exchanges we've had recently remains as they've been exchanged. From election *dissenting opinions* to your recent *ka-ka website that explains things*. I will admit that at least, unlike your cohort, you add your own *thoughts* (regardless how hysterically faulty they may be) for every website link you posted.

So, did you donated monies to Svoboda? I'm sure Nuland baked them a new batch of cookies already. LOL!

So go chase *projectiles and missiles yourself*. It's classically entertaining I must admit. It's almost as hysterically funny as Sleepy Cat's wife-hunting trip reports or jmana's relationships.

 

[BillyB]

  I never said anything about hooking up with GQ....   

Sure you wanted to hook up with GQ. You want me to remind you? You two are like brothers on this forum. Except for the rare bickering, you both think alike.

That reminds me of you trying to get validation from jmana's ex wife asking if she would have coffee with you.

I don't discuss what is exchanged in PM's but you have a lot to learn about women.

So go chase *projectiles and missiles yourself*.

I'll take that as a "NO". You do not want to discuss who shot missiles at the building anymore based on evidence and prefer to believe in fantasy. Can you explain to us why Kiev spent tens of thousands of dollars on missiles to kill civilians instead of using them on militants? Ukraine has a limited supply of munitions. It's best they use it wisely on the enemy. If their goal is to kill civilians, apartment buildings and schools are a better choice than a government building. I have not read anything that said a militant died in that attack. Probably because militants don't shoot their own men?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Sure you wanted to hook up with GQ. You want me to remind you? You two are like brothers on this forum. Except for the rare bickering, you both think alike.

Yes, remind me when I asked GQ to meet up when I was visiting LA.  You might as well remind me when I had planned on visiting LA since I don't even recall that.

I don't discuss what is exchanged in PM's but you have a lot to learn about women.

    We all know you fancy yourself as a teacher dude, but there is nothing you could possibly teach me about women.   We obviously have different tastes.  I definitely don't need a woman with little experience to make me feel important.


Speaking of the need to feel important... You asking her if she would meet up for coffee if you were in her city reeked of insecurity and seeking validation will put off any woman.  Besides it being creepy as hell.   

[GQBlues]

...I don't discuss what is exchanged in PM's but you have a lot to learn about women....

Yeah. Like *how to lie to any woman you profess to mean the world to you while she laid ill in a hospital bed *! LOL.

...I'll take that as a "NO". You do not want to discuss who shot missiles at the building anymore based on evidence and prefer to believe in fantasy. Can you explain to us why Kiev spent tens of thousands of dollars on missiles to kill civilians instead of using them on militants? Ukraine has a limited supply of munitions. It's best they use it wisely on the enemy. If their goal is to kill civilians, apartment buildings and schools are a better choice than a government building. I have not read anything that said a militant died in that attack. Probably because militants don't shoot their own men?

Obviously you have reading comprehension issues. I provided OSCE's site where they reported those rockets came from an aircraft. You can *dissent your opinions* on this one where the sun don't shine.

You are also obviously too dense to notice as well that the CCTV video was *zoomed* for the sole purpose of illustration what that *spark* was that came from the park's trees. You won't be able to convince anyone that you can *see* rockets traveling at a very high rate of speed taken from a camera that far away, and one not equipped with fast shutters to capture that type of video. This is really telling about your silliness.

Stick to the Right Sector investigation report, BillyB. You are exactly the type of readers they're hoping to captivate. LOL.

So, answer the question...did you or did you not send Svoboda your donations? 

[krimster2]

the first casualty of war is the truth
the rest were caused by these


think of it as an airborne katuyusha and about as accurate (football field sized target), it did rather neatly bisect the tire barricade
if the building was the target, it did get a few hits, if it was the barricade, then it did its job, but a weapon like that you can't get any more precise than what they did, good they didn't hit Poland!  Rember Ukraine's military is the one who shot down the commercial jet liner by mistake and also fired a missile into an apartment building by mistake, and remember the air show? You go with the military and weapons you have and not what you wish you had.
Of course none of the videos will show anyone shooting at the planes before they fired their rockets...

Ukraine to Separatists, I'll see your bet and raise you... 

[LiveFromUkraine]

the first casualty of war is the truth
the rest were caused by these


think of it as an airborne katuyusha and about as accurate (football field sized target), it did rather neatly bisect the tire barricade
if the building was the target, it did get a few hits, if it was the barricade, then it did its job, but a weapon like that you can't get any more precise than what they did, good they didn't hit Poland!  Rember Ukraine's military is the one who shot down the commercial jet liner by mistake and also fired a missile into an apartment building by mistake, and remember the air show? You go with the military and weapons you have and not what you wish you had.
Of course none of the videos will show anyone shooting at the planes before they fired their rockets...

Ukraine to Separatists, I'll see your bet and raise you...

I was just reading a site talking about what happened but had some more details on the s-8's.  It also mentioned the explosions could be from cluster bombs which would make sense looking at the explosions throughout the park and across the street.


http://www.armamentresearch.com/ukrainian-air-force-strike-lugansk-with-s-8kom-rockets/


Supposedly this was found on the scene.