Would you get involved with a gal that's "Been here, done this"?

[Killer-B]

Thanks SoC (and PW)

As an update of sorts - She was "out of town" this week/weekend - but got a letter back from her yesterday - 2 to 3 pages...

I had "diplomatically" asked her about GCG's and women that come here just for the $$ and such (turns out she lived and worked in the Broadmoor area) - $$$$ And for those of you unfamiliar with that place/area - Here's a link to my "backyard" LOL - http://www.broadmoor.com/

It's 5 Stars all the way around - so - this guy had to have had some bucks by the sounds of it (yet she mentions fighing over money?? So who knows!?) 

As to "The Update" - She says she got a call/letter from her ex wanting to reconcile!? - She's "thinking it over" - I don't know if that means she's "thinking" about his call (she mentioned too, that she and her family were at times scared of this guy) so I dunno - Or is she now "re-thinking" his offer to return? (Duhmmm da dum daaaa!)

Either way, I asked "someone" to read this letter - and am awaiting her  thoughts (cough!) as to her true sincerity - and if she thinks she's worth following up with or not.... This letter was not as "warm" as the others.. but I could tell she was tired and it was late - So - Day by day as I say...

One last interesting note - On RWG we had started a thread about CSI: Las Vegas when they did a total bash on MOB's - Don't know if that got discussed here or not (anyone see it? Was a total hatchet job) - But she referenced that she and her ex watched that episode  - and made reference about how it's "sad" that women come here for abuse and/or to be tossed out for prostitution - She certainly cuts to the chase!! What GCG would raise these things in conversation? (besides a smart one?) LOL

Cheers,

KB

[PeeWee]

Something that I have noticed about CSI and a few others is that they sometimes get their storylines from yesterday's headlines. Perhaps the CSI story on MOB was taken from API or another NAS. In the past 5 years, if my recollection is correct, we have had two murders of "MOB" here in the PNW. Those stories tend to be more sensational than the run-of-the-mill murder story. Yet they are much less common in nature.

Regarding your lady. Baggage might be the underlying operator here. Blend in a little confusion and doubt, on her part. Is she really worth it? There are so many unincumbered women to be had...why must it be her? I also think that if she is currently conflicted about her past relationship that she may not be able to turn her full and undivided attention in your direction. YOu might be playing second at the moment.

Peewee

[Killer-B]

I was poking around the net tonight - and ran across some "stats" for divorce by (FSU) country per capita - I know that many are not "fans" of Jim's List (stuff) - but found this interesting, as it pertained to my current situation outlined in this thread - But not only that, I was quite surprised by the overall "success rate" and stories he offers...

As I ponder this - I really only personally know of 2 people that have "sent there's back".. (well, now 3 counting this gal) - Everyone else I know seems happily married (?) :noidea: So I dunno - LOL Am interested to see what other people here think....

(Notice Jim states right off the bat, that he takes heat for these "numbers" - yet sites that they're from the USA Gov't.)

Foreign Marriage Statistics

A few guys have blasted me for the statistic of foreign marriage statistics that I have on my Facts page. Well, here are the official statistics from the US government (uscis.gov) for the year 2003.

3889 K-1's (fiancée) entered the USA
54.0% left the USA within 6 months
28.2% left between 6 months to one year
17.7% lasted more than one year

1546 K-3 (spouse) entered the USA
70.3% left the USA within 6 months
22.6% left between 6 months to one year
7.1 % lasted more than one year

Jim's Personal Stories

6 years in Russia, I know 2 couples in their 1st marriage.

Friend: "She's a nice girl, but she was never the same after her 2nd divorce."
Jim: "How old is she?"
Friend: "31."

Russian friend #1: "Russian girls get married for money."
Russian friend #2: "Russian girls get married for financial gain."
Russian friend #3: "Russian girls see marriage as a way to profit financially."
Russian friend #4: "Russian girls like bald men. They are bald because they work hard and means they are rich."
See a pattern here?

Russian girl: "I was married for 5 years."
Jim: "I guess it wasn't true love."
Russian girl: "It was true love."
Jim: "True love lasts 5 years?"
Russian girl: "Is that long?"
Jim makes a funny face.
Russian girl: "Is that short?"
Jim avoids getting into the discussion.

Don't get me wrong guys. This info is good for you. Forget the young girls (18-22). They will be trouble and headache. Divorced girls (especially with kids) are going to be serious and looking for something real.

[PeeWee]

I also read that 90% of all statistics are made up to suit the need. Statistics are one dimensional. Without know the base and without knowing the source it is hard to tell the relevance of the statistic. Is it valid for your study, in otherwords.

"Second. Russian friend #1: "Russian girls get married for money."
Russian friend #2: "Russian girls get married for financial gain."
Russian friend #3: "Russian girls see marriage as a way to profit financially."
Russian friend #4: "Russian girls like bald men. They are bald because they work hard and means they are rich.""

this is differ in the thinking of any woman of an nationality in what way? This is how a woman thinks, my friend. Women are attracted to men by two things; power and money. You will find more, what we class as 10s, with older and richer men than you will find a woman of a lower scale. Remember Anna Nichole Smith, just to name one example of this. She is not a loner but rather the most talked about.

Peewee

[jb]

Killer B,

Unlike others here, I see nothing to ponder,,, really.

I would not consider re-cycling this girl if I were in your shoes for a couple of reasons.  First of all, she's very much too young to have this much experience at failed romantic relationships, seems like there might be a lot of unnecessary baggage for you to deal with.  IMHO, (and that's all it is, an opinion), she would also strike me as a girl who would trade you in just as quickly as she did the other guy if things didn't go exactly as she wished.  Secondly, with an ex-husband living so close, the temptation for her to renew old flames with him would be too much for me to gamble on, considering she'd be doing it on my dime.  It seems to me she's looking for a mule to carry her specifically back to the Colorado, Denver/Springs area. 

That's just my 2 cents, but I'd waste no more time and energy on the project.  If she wants to get back to Colorado so badly, let her do it on her own, or his, money.  This whole notion of bringing a woman over to the USA is both costly and time consuming, I think it would be better to expend that time and money on a woman with a clean slate, rather than take a chance on there being some possibility of a hidden agenda other than creating a happy home with you.

[Maxx2]

Jim's got his interpretation of these statistics all wrong.

First, there is allot more fiancee's and wives entering th country than what is listed. ALLOT more...

Second, their going back does not mean for good. They are returning for visits to family and in most cases returning to the US.

Maxx

[Killer-B]

I'll agree "stats are stats" and can be used, twisted and distorted to fit any one agenda.... But I just stumbled across all that - and "19%" or "7%" was quite surprising to me... I mean, it's one thing if it were 95% stayed (for sure) and then someone tossed out 7% as the "real" number - I mean, this isn't even a close race - or misunderstanding - Get what I mean? If I were a betting man (which I am LOL) if you had told me before, that only 7% of all FSU women stay in America after OR that over 50% "left" - I'd say you're smoking crack -

I would agree Maxx that maybe the numbers do not reveal all (return trips and such) but it does break it down by K-1 and K-3 so, there must be SOME relevance?

At fist glance... I thought maybe they were "Students" and were returning after the semester was up... But these are for "marriage".... Even if they're "OFF" (skewed/tainted) even by 50% - it's STILL a huge number IMHO. I'm not sure one could ignore these numbers (will look at the USCIS site and read more...

jb - I'm starting to agree with you more and more - that maybe this just isn't worth "2 rounds" - I'm waiting though to hear back from the RW I sent the letter to - to get her "gut" reaction about it all - That was 2 days ago - but have not heard back yet -

If I do decide to cut bait and run here - Any suggestions as to what to tell her? Truth is kinda harsh here LOL...

Cheers-

KB

Afterthought here - K1 is 18% roughly - and K3 is 7% - Would (maybe) make the case that OWW is NOT the way to go - Just my opinion / 2 cents

[jb]

If I do decide to cut bait and run here - Any suggestions as to what to tell her? Truth is kinda harsh here LOL...

Considering that this girl has a zero emotional investment in you, and that she's most likely merely on a fishing expedition for a ride to Colorado, I wouldn't worry about her feelings too much. 

Something like: 
My dear _______, (insert name here) 

Thank you very much for your letters and your interest in becoming my friend.  However, after giving much thought to where this relationship might lead, I have come to understand that it would not be a wise path to follow.  There are many different things about each of us that would make our romance a bad adventure.   No matter how much I might want something so wonderful with a young girl like you, I don't truly believe we would ever make a successful marriage.  I need to turn my attention towards developing relationships with women more in keeping with my own age and relationship ideals. 

I wish you much luck in finding someone who will make all of your dreams come true.

Yours truly, etc.

Get your friend to translate something like that into Russian and she'll get the message without having her feelings hurt. Just a suggestion.

[PeeWee]

3889 K-1's (fiancée) entered the USA
54.0% left the USA within 6 months
28.2% left between 6 months to one year
17.7% lasted more than one year

1546 K-3 (spouse) entered the USA
70.3% left the USA within 6 months
22.6% left between 6 months to one year
7.1 % lasted more than one year

What this is suggesting is that more of those that followed the K-3 route had a greater chance of failure than those that followed the k-1 route. Why would that be the case? Who populated the numbers? Were they Philippino more so than Ukraine? What about the other 3,000 or so that are not listed here? What happened to them?

What these numbers might suggest is that one would have a better chance of their marriage suviving if he did not marry her before she arrived in the US. Also these statistics seem to suggest that for some reason an expectation was not met either by the man or by the woman. What expectation was not realized and why? If that problem could have been broached then perhaps there would be less aborted attempts.

Peewee

[jb]

Peewee,

My wife was a K-3, and she went back to Russia for a visit within 12 months, is it possible she is somehow included in these stats?  She is going back at the end of this month for another visit to see her mother, will she become another statistic in some other flawed survey?  Russian women will frequently travel back to the Rodina to see family and friends, it's the nature of the beast.  None of that suggests to me that each one of those traveling women indicate a failed marriage.

I think you are placing too much credence on bad information.

[ccarten]

And if you consider that about only 5% of the men that write actually go, given the K-1 and K-3 stats and the number of RW that are in the US and married to American men, the number of guys in pursuit of a RW must be huge.

As a side note, where my wife used to work in Kiev, in a small office that had about 8 unmarried women, 4 of the them married foreign men, 2 live in the US, 1 in Belgium and 1 in Sweden.  And 2 others are looking.

Clay

[DKMM]

Hi, 1st timer here.  Been reading for a while and decided to jump in. 

My current pursuit is a divorcee.  Up until this thread I've been somewhat worried about it.  You guys really think its a +?  She's 23 I'm 28 and never married but been in long term relationships.

We've been talking for over a month and the subject has not been brought up.  I guess I should just ask her if she wants to tell me what happened?  Or should I not even care. . .

Thx   

[catzenmouse]

Hi, 1st timer here.  Been reading for a while and decided to jump in. 

My current pursuit is a divorcee.  Up until this thread I've been somewhat worried about it.  You guys really think its a +?  She's 23 I'm 28 and never married but been in long term relationships.

We've been talking for over a month and the subject has not been brought up.  I guess I should just ask her if she wants to tell me what happened?  Or should I not even care. . .

Thx   

Welcome DKMM!

 I'd say the more information you have the better. Seeing how she reacts to the question and what she says about the ex will give you another little piece for the puzzle regarding her character.

Ken

[Killer-B]

My current pursuit is a divorcee.  Up until this thread I've been somewhat worried about it.  You guys really think its a +?  She's 23 I'm 28 and never married but been in long term relationships.

Hello DKMM - Along with Ken, let me be the 2nd to welcome you to the site - Glad you decided to "jump in"! 

Since I'm the creator of this post (wow, that sounded very God-like LOL!) and since I'm knee-deep in the same situation, I'll pitch in my .02 cents here...

Firstly, if this were an AW you were pursuing - would you not ask her about her prior marriage? Just because she's a RW does not change the fact that there are indeed some "things" (read as "issues") that you'll probably wanna know about this gal before getting in too deep.

(Oh to be 28 again! I wish someone had told me about RW 15 years ago!) -

Either way, the world is your oyster right now - And your "options" and choices are pretty huge dude... Definitely agree with Ken, that you should run this past her (in a non-KGB kind of way) and see what her reaction is? She have a kid(s)?

In my case, I sent a few letters to another RW friend to have her "decipher" the lady's letter - and to give me her thoughts and opinion as to if this gal had/has any serious "issues" or not... Turns out, what I wasn't seeing in her letters, were indeed some HUGE red flags! And as soon as I get her (my RW friend's) permission, I would really like to post her thoughts on here - For she raised some excellent points about this gal, and think it would benefit many that are in same boat by dealing with a divorcee.

I'm certain others will chime in and offer some sage advice as well - But I wish you luck in your search!!! Tell us more about her - where she's from - was she married to a RM or a WM? Let us know how things go aye?

Cheers!

KB

PS: Just thinking more about your question - You said, do we think it's a plus (or positive?) [I'll assume that "a +?" means that?]  If so, is that what your take is after reading this post? I suppose many were not discouraging me from shying away per se - But don't think it's really advisable with so many other "options" available to you in the FSU.

And as more information comes out (which you really DO need to get from this gal) Yeah, that will definitely help you in making the "right" decision. Good luck!

[jb]

I think most, if not all, divorcee's expect the question to come up sooner or later as they explore new relationships, I doubt if asking about the why's and wherefore's will cause undue consternation on her part. 

And, BTW, welcome to the forefront of the board.  You say you've been in correspondence for a month, I'd be curious about how you got started down this path.  At your age I was still dating the local college girls and having the time of my life.  I was especially fond of the "hippy chicks", they tended to smell bad, but they were soooooo easy.

[KenC]

Hi, 1st timer here.  Been reading for a while and decided to jump in. 

My current pursuit is a divorcee.  Up until this thread I've been somewhat worried about it.  You guys really think its a +?  She's 23 I'm 28 and never married but been in long term relationships.

We've been talking for over a month and the subject has not been brought up.  I guess I should just ask her if she wants to tell me what happened?  Or should I not even care. . .

Thx   

Welcome aboard, DKMM,
I think you are saying that your pen pal had been married to a Russian man and divorced. If that is correct then I would say that many of the RW going this route have been previously married. This is a little different than a RW that had been married to an AM previously. (Which was the original posters situation) You have to bear in mind that Russians tend to marry early. Some may say too early. You have every right to ask her what happened. I always thought that there were certain advantages of hooking up with a gal that had marriage experience under her belt. There is a whole transition thing that you can avoid with a divorcee. Of course you would still have to go through it too (not ever been married)
KenC

[Maxx2]

Welcome DKMM.

I was briefly married to a RW with real issues with men. Her father an alcoholic, whom she and her mother sided against with with "Women's Solidarity" as she put it. I found after I married her she had been divorced 3 times in 8 years of marriage. Then 4th time a year later by me. A guy I have been told about, by a reliable source, found out his Russian wife had never divorced her Russian husband before marrying him. The annulment (allot of those happening) help overturn the false domestic violence charges she leveled at him. This happens often if the marriage breaks up before they get their green cards.

It is very wise to look into their past.

Maxx

[DKMM]

Heh heh I knew I came to the right place, thanks guys!

Yeah I started this in early April and its sorta been snowballing since.  She has no kids (nor do I obviously) and we both have master's degrees and both work in the financial field.  I am not trying to pat myself on the back but I have no problem dating AW.  Its just that 10 years is enough for me to realize its a total waste of time when thinking of wifey material.  There are some good ones out there but they aren't interested in a traditional guy that works long hours.  I'm probably preaching to the choir here. . . I'm ready to try something else.

I also have the unique advantage of knowing decent Russian thanks to 3 years of taking it in college.  Needless to say it opens doors but there is only so much I was able to correspond in Russian so I eventually narrowed it down to girls that can speak/write in English.

Anyways, she's from St. Pete and I found her on a pay site as a "new profile" and its been going since.  The one weird thing was she changed her phone # a week ago (I got the new one of course) and when I asked why she kinda stumbled and said it was for me.  Good enough I guess.   

She's from a traditional family, lives with both parents who seem to be very loving and all that.  I've even briefly talked to the mom and have been introduced to close friends so I take it all as good signs.  I'm just a bit worried about how to bring up the divorce thing but that's about it.  She's never been to a "western" country so I assume the ex is a RM.

And what the heck is up with all of them travelling to Egypt, is that like their Mexico?

[PeeWee]

Hi, 1st timer here.  Been reading for a while and decided to jump in. 

My current pursuit is a divorcee.  Up until this thread I've been somewhat worried about it.  You guys really think its a +?  She's 23 I'm 28 and never married but been in long term relationships.

We've been talking for over a month and the subject has not been brought up.  I guess I should just ask her if she wants to tell me what happened?  Or should I not even care. . .

Thx   

I have visited with or communicated with a whooping total of 6 RW. Not many by any standard and I have been divorced. Every one of those women asked me why I got divorced. Had you been married she would ask  you I believe and because of it it seems that you would naturally ask her about it as well. You many not need care, on the other hand, because she may not give you a complete or honest answer anway. Or her you will hear her point while all of the time remembering there are two sides to every story.

Peewee

[Maxx2]

And what the heck is up with all of them travelling to Egypt, is that like their Mexico?

They have some nice resorts along the Red Sea and of course tours of the Pyramids etc. Also Turkey, Cypress and Greece are popular with Russians. I have heard about $300-$500 will get 4 star accomedations for a week plus it's not that far to travel by air. Some of the guys impress their ladies and take them to Thailand or islands in the Caribbean.

Maxx

[PeeWee]

Heh heh I knew I came to the right place, thanks guys!

Yeah I started this in early April and its sorta been snowballing since.  She has no kids (nor do I obviously) and we both have master's degrees and both work in the financial field.  I am not trying to pat myself on the back but I have no problem dating AW.  Its just that 10 years is enough for me to realize its a total waste of time when thinking of wifey material.  There are some good ones out there but they aren't interested in a traditional guy that works long hours.  I'm probably preaching to the choir here. . . I'm ready to try something else.

I also have the unique advantage of knowing decent Russian thanks to 3 years of taking it in college.  Needless to say it opens doors but there is only so much I was able to correspond in Russian so I eventually narrowed it down to girls that can speak/write in English.

Anyways, she's from St. Pete and I found her on a pay site as a "new profile" and its been going since.  The one weird thing was she changed her phone # a week ago (I got the new one of course) and when I asked why she kinda stumbled and said it was for me.  Good enough I guess.   

She's from a traditional family, lives with both parents who seem to be very loving and all that.  I've even briefly talked to the mom and have been introduced to close friends so I take it all as good signs.  I'm just a bit worried about how to bring up the divorce thing but that's about it.  She's never been to a "western" country so I assume the ex is a RM.

And what the heck is up with all of them travelling to Egypt, is that like their Mexico?

Has the old phone number been disconnected?

Peewee

[KenC]

DKMM,
I think you're making a bigger deal out of asking about her past marriage than it really is. Talk to her about what she thinks makes a good marriage or what she is looking for in a man and then simply ask what went wrong with her first one or why her first husband didn't fit the profile. Once you open the door for her, I am sure the details will come flowing out. You, not having been married or divorced, may not realise it, but we divorced people have to force ourselves to not talk about our ex's.  

Egypt is cheap, close and very visa friendly for Russians. There are many affordable vacation packages offered by Russian travel agencies.

Do you realise what a catch you would be over there? At your age and proficiency in Russian, if you just don't look like a frog, (or as they say, you are a little better looking than a monkey), you would be golden. Besides being a bit jealous, I just want to tell you that you are in a position to be very very picky.
KenC

[PeeWee]

DKMM,
I think you're making a bigger deal out of asking about her past marriage than it really is. Talk to her about what she thinks makes a good marriage or what she is looking for in a man and then simply ask what went wrong with her first one or why her first husband didn't fit the profile. Once you open the door for her, I am sure the details will come flowing out. You, not having been married or divorced, may not realise it, but we divorced people have to force ourselves to not talk about our ex's.  

Egypt is cheap, close and very visa friendly for Russians. There are many affordable vacation packages offered by Russian travel agencies.

Do you realise what a catch you would be over there? At your age and proficiency in Russian, if you just don't look like a frog, (or as they say, you are a little better looking than a monkey), you would be golden. Besides being a bit jealous, I just want to tell you that you are in a position to be very very picky.
KenC

 

Ken makes a good point. When I first met Lena, she is divorced and so am I, she asked me to list the traits that I would not like to see in my partner. I did and then asked her the same question. I have since learned that she is a bright woman and the answers to those questions served well for me to know what she will not tollerate from a husband and I many have learned why she divorced her husband. She did tell me why later so when I heard her answers some of those reasons dovetailed with the responses she had given me. You might try that approach.

Peewee

[dorogoyroberto]

Egypt is cheap, close and very visa friendly for Russians. There are many affordable vacation packages offered by Russian travel agencies.
[/b]

KenC,

Your sentiments are also true for Ukrainians. Lilya and her friend Ira went to Sharm-el-Sheikh for 10 days and had a great time...they bought a package from a travel agency just across the street...

Roberto
Kiev, Ukraine

[WmGO]

To answer the original question I would
say no.