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Author Topic: Ukrainian Air Defense Exercises Might be Behind Malaysian Aircraft Crash  (Read 24087 times)

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Offline Misha

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It appears that most here have not been keeping up with the latest developments on the MH17 shootdown.

It's looking more and more like it was not shot down by separatists, nor Russians, but by Ukraine fighter jets.

Your sweeping statements based on an obscure blog and your spin on one interview.

Offline calmissile

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Misha and Hammer, please don't shoot the messenger nor second-guess his allegiance.

In the following article you will find evidence that completely contradicts
the popular BUK/ground-to-air missile theory of missiles being fired by rebels.

http://vortexcourage.me/2014/07/28/shocking-analysis-of-the-launch-of-malaysian-mh17/


Michael Bociurkiw, a Ukrainian Canadian and one of the first OSCE monitors on the scene at the MH17 disaster site was interviewed by the CBC in Donetsk last week.
What he saw and discusses (near end of interview) corroborates the evidence presented in the above article.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/World/ID/2478615393/

Canada,

I would not get too wrapped up in conspiracy theories about the cause of the MH-17 crash.

Neither of the links you posted move me to think that the cause was anything but a ground launched missile.  In fact the second link suggests that the cabin portion of the wreckage was so shot up by the terrorists on the ground, that it is even more difficult to determine what actually happened.

Part of the problem with conspiracies are that they are fed by idiot reporters in the media that don't have a clue what they are talking about.  Take the case of a "Explosive Decompression".   Everyone that passes this term along to the next person suggests that it means an aircraft that explodes into a million pieces.  This is not the case!

Wiki actually has a fairly decent description of various types of decompression, including the affects of Explosive Decompression in an aircraft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontrolled_decompression

You will note that the technical term "Explosive Decompression" is a measurement of a pressure differential that results in the lungs being unable to safely expel the air from the lungs.  We should also consider the cause and effect relationship.  For example, the Aloha Airlines incident that experienced a Rapid or Explosive decompression was due to a structural failure of the skin of the fuselage that ripped away causing the decompression.  The decompression did not cause the structure to fail.  The failure caused the decompression.

A fairly large hole in a fuselage will cause high velocity of air to escape (the greatest near the hole) and will stabilize within seconds.  The cabin pressure of a modern aircraft flying at altitude is only about 7-8 PSI.  The design of the fuselage in aircraft is such that it accommodates pressurization and decompression. 

The cockpit of MH-17 is so contaminated that in my mind, it has far less value in determining the cause than the rest of the fuselage.  You might remember that in your 2nd link, the gentleman reminds us that someone had taken a chain saw and spit the cockpit into a larger assembly.  So much for the cockpit........

I find the photos of the large pieces of the fuselage much more telling.  The rivets are worth noting.  There are panels that have nice, clean, empty, rivet holes.   From my experience, there are primarily two failure modes of aircraft rivets.  In the case of shear of two panels, the holes would generally have elongated holes showing that the forces were a tearing of the two panels apart.  I did not see much of this in the photos.  The second failure mode either pulls the rivet straight out, breaks the rivet in two, or the head of the rivet pops off.  It is difficult to pull a rivet head through the hole.

So to make a long story short(er), viewing the fuselage photos and the rivet holes, I would suspect that the aircraft came apart due to a large overpressure, underpressure, or both.  A scenario I have not yet seen discussed is the overpressure possibility.  A riveted, aluminum vessel that is overpressured rapidly will likely pop the rivets and leave similar traces as what is seen in the photos.   How can this happen in this aircraft incident?   A warhead puncturing the fuselage and then exploding generates a large overpressure.  It is a basic of all explosive bombs.  It does not fit the description of a rocket exploding near a plane and downing it with shrapnel however.

My description of overpressure is not a new conspiracy theory.    ;D   It is simply providing some detail that can explain some of the photographic evidence that has been bandied about by the talking heads in the media.

BTW, the Aloha Airlines plane that experienced rapid decompression (with its roof torn off) landed safely.  I think one stewardess was blown out of the cabin upon initial decompression.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 09:21:13 PM by calmissile »

Offline lonedrake

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Quote
In the following article you will find evidence that completely contradicts
the popular BUK/ground-to-air missile theory of missiles being fired by rebels.

 So this blog says the  the plane was shot on both sides of the cockpit with 30 caliber machine guns. I am not combat expert,but it seems very hard to make a right angle shot on a plane flying 500 mph.

Just doesn't make sense. I will ask my youngest brother. He is currently training to fly a F-22.

Offline CanadaMan

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Because of the circumstance and the inability to properly investigate the site after the explosion, the whole truth will never be known....
... If you expect the truth and the facts to ever be revealed, you are fooling yourselves.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you.

Offline Drew

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The title of this thread is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read here.

The Russian Terrorists have been regularly shooting down planes in eastern Ukraine and instantly claimed credit for this downing also.

Shame to those who are supporting Russian Terrorists and giving them cover here and elsewhere.

And shame to those who understand exactly what the Russian Terrorists have done in this and other situations, but here you merely pussy foot around and refuse to call a spade a spade.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2014, 08:18:01 PM by Drew »

Offline CanadaMan

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So this blog says the  the plane was shot on both sides of the cockpit with 30 caliber machine guns. I am not combat expert,but it seems very hard to make a right angle shot on a plane flying 500 mph.

Just doesn't make sense. I will ask my youngest brother. He is currently training to fly a F-22.


Some are saying (using angles created by wing and cockpit damage) that the angle of the shots were at 1:00 o'clock rather than 3:00 o'clock (right angle).

Who knows?

Offline LiveFromUkraine

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The title of this thread is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read here.

The Russian Terrorists have been regularly shooting down planes in eastern Ukraine and instantly claimed credit for this downing also.

Shame to those who are supporting Russian Terrorists and giving them cover here and elsewhere.

And shame to those who understand exactly what the Russian Terrorists have done in this and other situations, but here you merely pussy foot around and refuse to call a spade a spade.


Since you are going towards the shaming route, you should also shame people who shame others for having differing opinions.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 05:32:27 AM by LiveFromUkraine »

 

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