Invasion by Ukraine

[krimster2]

"Кrimster, i saw thousands of  указов, that made no sense"
I would expect not many of them did, especially the more recent ones 

"One more time- nobody asked Tatars then now they had their referendum"
shto? ya n'ponelle? why do you think "no one asked Tatarii", they're not Russian so they're not worthy of consideration and now they're prisoners in their own country

BTW Dollski, when I lived in Crimea, I saw a Tatarii protest of mostly elderly/middle aged people protesting against a market built on a Tatarii holy sight, quite a contrast when they were beaten by Russians and Cossack Titushki while Berkut stood by, at least back then they weren't shooting the protestors, when I saw Maidan, it was "Deja Vu all over again" but with guns

[Boethius]

Ukrainians did not treat Jews worse than did the Nazis.  Of course, if you want to go there, we could discuss how Russia restricted the Jewish population, which is why they lived in Ukraine, predominantly.

As for Russians who escaped the commies, such as those in France, they did retain their culture and view modern day Russians, such as former commies who now espouse right wing traditional values, as uncultured boors.   They want nothing to do with them.

[Ludmila]

Ukrainians did not treat Jews worse than did the Nazis.  Of course, if you want to go there, we could discuss how Russia restricted the Jewish population, which is why they lived in Ukraine, predominantly.

As for Russians who escaped the commies, such as those in France, they did retain their culture and view modern day Russians, such as former commies who now espouse right wing traditional values, as uncultured boors.   They want nothing to do with them.

Ukrainian Canadian historian Serhiy Yekelchyk writes that during 1943 and 1944 an estimated 35,000 Polish civilians and an unknown number of Ukrainian civilians in the Volhynia and Chelm regions fell victim to mutual ethnic cleansing by the UPA and Polish insurgents.^[15] Niall Ferguson writes that around 80,000 Poles were murdered then by Ukrainian nationalists.^[16] Norman Davies in his book No Simple Victory: World War II in Europe, 1939-1945 puts the number of murdered Polish civilians at between 200,000 and 500,000, while Timothy Snyder writes that Ukrainian nationalists killed "between forty to sixty thousand Polish civilians in Volhynia in 1943".^[17]

[Ludmila]

Bandera--ukrainian hero Relationship with Nazi Germany[edit]Historian David Marples summarizes the intermittently close relationship between Bandera, the OUN and Nazi Germany as "ambivalent", tactical and opportunistic, with both sides trying to exploit the other unsuccessfully.^[24]
In the spring of 1941, according to the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine and other sources, Bandera held meetings with the heads of Germany's intelligence, regarding the formation of "Nachtigall" and "Roland" Battalions. In spring of that year the OUN received 2.5 million marks for subversive activities inside the USSR.^[22][25][26]
Gestapo and Abwehr officials protected Bandera followers, as both organizations intended to use them for their own purposes.^[27]
On June 30, 1941, with the arrival of Nazi troops in Ukraine, Bandera and the OUN-B declared an independent Ukrainian State. Some of the published proclamations of the formation of this state say that it "will work closely with the National-Socialist Greater Germany, under the leadership of its leader Adolf Hitler which is forming a new order in Europe and the world and is helping the Ukrainian People to free itself from Moscovite occupation." - as stated in the text of the "Act of Proclamation of Ukrainian Statehood".^[22][26]
In 1941 relations between Nazi Germany and the OUN-B soured to the point where a Nazi document dated 25 November 1941 stated that "... the Bandera Movement is preparing a revolt in the Reichskommissariat which has as its ultimate aim the establishment of an independent Ukraine. All functionaries of the Bandera Movement must be arrested at once and, after thorough interrogation, are to be liquidated...".^[28] On July 5, Bandera was arrested and transferred to Berlin. On July 12, the president of the newly formed Ukrainian state, Yaroslav Stetsko, was also arrested and taken to Berlin. Although released from custody on July 14, both were required to stay in Berlin.
In January 1942, Bandera was transferred to Sachsenhausen concentration camp's special barrack for high profile political prisoners Zellenbau.^[29]
In April 1944 Bandera and his deputy Yaroslav Stetsko were approached by an RSHA official to discuss plans for diversions and sabotage against the Soviet Army.^[30]
In September 1944 ^[31] Bandera was released by [the German authorities] which hoped that he will incite the native populace to fight the advancing Soviet Army. With German consent Bandera set up headquarters in Berlin.^[32] Germans supplied OUN-B and UIA by air with arms and equipment. Assigned German personnel and agents trained to conduct terrorist and intelligence activities behind Soviet lines, as well as some OUN-B leaders, were also transported by air until early 1945.^[33][34]

[Ludmila]

Ukrainians did not treat Jews worse than did the Nazis. 

HERE'S WHAT THE SMART GIRL WIKA HAS TO SAY ( ARE YOU OK WITH THE SOURCE, BOE?) :
 Ethnicity was one root cause of this revolt, which included Ukrainian violence that killed tens of thousands of Poles and Jews.

[AC]

AC, есоnomically ( and very soon) Russia will collapse.

I completely agree Doll!

[sleepycat]

It's already happening...
It must really suck to be nothing more than one big gas station.

[AC]

If you contemplate a day when Russia might be capable of “swallowing” America,
I CAN SEE WHEN YOU IMMIGRATED TO US, YOU ENDED UP IN THE REDNECKLAND. IT'S A TYPICAL REDNECK MENTALITY, LACK OF KNOWLEDGE, LACK OF EDUCATION, INABILITY TO FORM ONE'S OWN OPINION  AND WORDING OF NOTIONS, BASED ON ANALYSIS, NOT PROPAGANDA, SHALLOWNESS.
 I would urge you to take a trip to Disneyland and listen to a puppet they have there...
THERE'RE SO MANY MINUTES IN MY PRECIOUS LIFE TO WASTE THEM WATCHING  WHAT REDNECKS WATCH. I BETTER WATCH SOMETHING MADE BY MEL GIBSON, NIKITA MIHALKOV, OLIVER STONE AND OTHER MATSERS. DISNEY IS FOR YOU.

Are you dyslexic?  It looks like you got a couple of things backwards.  And yes you are shouting.  That's usually the sign of poor breeding, like a REDNECK.

[AC]

WWII was over almost 80 years ago.  The ones now who have NAZI and fascist leanings are the Russians, a few Bulgarians, some French, etc.  Ultra-nationalist parties which have sympathies for Putin are well documented.

Nashi, a youth group which worships the cult of Putin has been compared to the German NAZI youth groups of WWII.

excerpt
Nashi has been accused of recruiting skinheads and local hooligans to intimidate rival youth groups.[21] Such activities caused Gavin Knight, an editor for the New Statesman, to draw the conclusion that "Nashi’s true function was as a personality cult for Putin whose job was intimidate, bully and harass his opponents."[46] The movement has evoked comparisons with the Hitler Youth in the mainstream media[6] to the extent that Nashi, together with other pro-Putin youth organizations, were derogatively nicknamed Putinjugend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashi_(youth_movement)

[Ludmila]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_collaborationism_with_the_Axis_powers

[Ludmila]

Holocaust[edit]Holocaust in Ukraine: the mapThe atrocities against the Jewish population during the Holocaust started within a few days of the beginning of the Nazi occupation. There are indications that the Ukrainian auxiliary police was used in the round-up of Jews for the Babi Yar massacre^[8][9] and in other Ukrainian cities and towns, such as Stepan,^[10] Lviv,^[11][12] Lutsk,^[13] and Zhytomyr.^[14] On September 1, 1941, Nazi-controlled Ukrainian newspaper Volhyn wrote "The element that settled our cities (Jews)... must disappear completely from our cities. The Jewish problem is already in the process of being solved."^[15]
Anti-semitism had turned to a hatred of Jews by those Ukrainians who blamed Jews that had worked for Polish landlords, alongside with religious prejudice. Also, the murders of prisoners by Soviet secret police retreating eastwards from the German invasion were blamed on Jews. These feelings fueled ultra-nationalist Ukrainian militias which accompanied Nazi armies moving in eastern Europe.^[16] The German commander gave an enraged crowd in Boryslaw - who had seen bodies of young men murdered (by the Soviets, not Jews) and laid out in the town square - 24 hours to act as they wished against the Jews - they were forced to clean the dead bodies, to dance, and then killed by beating with axes, pipes, etc. The same sort of murders took place in Brzezany. In Lviv, some 9,000 Jews were murdered by Ukrainian nationalist extremists.^[16][17] As late as 1945, Ukrainian nationalists were still rounding up and murdering Jews.^[18]
In May 2006, the Ukrainian newspaper Ukraine Christian News commented: "Carrying out the massacre was the Einsatzgruppe C, supported by members of a Waffen-SS battalion and units of the Ukrainian auxiliary police, under the general command of Friedrich Jeckeln. The participation of Ukrainian collaborators in these events, now documented and proven, is a matter of painful public debate in Ukraine.".^[19]
While some of the collaborators were volunteers, others were no doubt given little choice. Ukrainians captured fighting for the Red Army were sometimes given the choice of possibly dying of near starvation and exposure in the ill-equipped POW camps reserved for the Red Army^[20] or working for the invaders as a hiwi, including duty in the concentration camps and ghettos as guards. The men selected for such duty were trained in the Trawniki concentration camp and were used in that part of the Final Solution known as Operation Reinhard. However, they were never fully trusted, and some would escape their enforced duty, sometimes along with the prisoners they were be guarding, and occasionally killing their SS commanders in the process.^[21][22]Collaborationist organizations, political movements, individuals, and military volunteers[edit]Auxiliary police[edit]German officers visiting the Schutzmannschaftant unit in Zarig, near Kiev.Main article: Ukrainian Auxiliary Police109, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 201-st Ukrainian Schutzmannschaftant-battalions participated in anti-partisan operations in Ukraine and Belarus. In February and March 1943, the 50th Ukrainian Schutzmannschaftant-battalion participated in the large anti-guerrilla action «Operation Winterzauber» (Winter magic) in Belarus, cooperating with several Latvian and the 2nd Lithuanian battalion. Schuma-battalions burned down villages suspected of supporting Soviet partisans.^[23] On March 22, 194, all the inhabitants of the village Chatyń in Belarus were burnt alive by the Nazis, with participation of the 118th Schutzmannschaft battalion ^[24][25]Ukrainian volunteers in the German armed forces[edit]

• Nachtigall Battalion
• Roland Battalion
• Freiwilligen-Stamm-Regiment 3 & 4 (Russians & Ukrainians)

SS Division "Galizien"[]Main article: 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Ukrainian)The volunteers of the SS-Freiwilligen-Schützen-Division «Galizien» marching in front of the Lviv University (1943).On 28 April 1943 the German Governor of District Galicia, Dr. Otto von Wächter, and the local Ukrainian administration officially declared the creation of the SS-Freiwilligen-Schützen-Division Galizien. Volunteers signed for service as of 3 June 1943 numbered 80 thousand.^[26] On 27 July 1944 the Galizien division was formed into the Waffen SS as 14. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (gal. Nr. 1).^[27]
The prevailing belief is that these men eagerly volunteered to take part in a patriotic war against the Soviets, not because of any support for Nazi Germany.^[28] Also, at least some of them were victims of compulsory conscription, since Germany had now suffered defeats and lost manpower on the eastern front.^[29] Sol Litman of the Simon Wiesenthal Center claims that there are many proven and documented incidents of atrocities and massacres committed by the Waffen-SS Galizien against minorities, particularly Jews during World War II.^[30] However other authors, including Michael Melnyk,^[29] and Michael O. Logusz,^[31] maintain that members of the division served almost entirely on the front lines against the Red Army and defend the unit against the accusations made by Litman and others. Official SS records show that the 4,5,6 and 7 SS-Freiwilligen regiments were under Ordnungspolizei command at the time of the accusations.^[27][32] Neither the division nor any of its former members were ever charged with any war crimes (see 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Ukrainian)#Accusations of war atrocities).

[Ludmila]

Ukrainian volunteers in the German armed forces[edit]

• Nachtigall Battalion
• Roland Battalion
• Freiwilligen-Stamm-Regiment 3 & 4 (Russians & Ukrainians)

SS Division "Galizien"[]Main article: 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Ukrainian)The volunteers of the SS-Freiwilligen-Schützen-Division «Galizien» marching in front of the Lviv University (1943).On 28 April 1943 the German Governor of District Galicia, Dr. Otto von Wächter, and the local Ukrainian administration officially declared the creation of the SS-Freiwilligen-Schützen-Division Galizien. Volunteers signed for service as of 3 June 1943 numbered 80 thousand.^[26] On 27 July 1944 the Galizien division was formed into the Waffen SS as 14. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (gal. Nr. 1).^[27]
The prevailing belief is that these men eagerly volunteered to take part in a patriotic war against the Soviets, not because of any support for Nazi Germany.^[28] Also, at least some of them were victims of compulsory conscription, since Germany had now suffered defeats and lost manpower on the eastern front.^[29] Sol Litman of the Simon Wiesenthal Center claims that there are many proven and documented incidents of atrocities and massacres committed by the Waffen-SS Galizien against minorities, particularly Jews during World War II.^[30] However other authors, including Michael Melnyk,^[29] and Michael O. Logusz,^[31] maintain that members of the division served almost entirely on the front lines against the Red Army and defend the unit against the accusations made by Litman and others. Official SS records show that the 4,5,6 and 7 SS-Freiwilligen regiments were under Ordnungspolizei command at the time of the accusations.^[27][32] Neither the division nor any of its former members were ever charged with any war crimes (see 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Ukrainian)#Accusations of war atrocities).

[AC]

More propaganda about something that happened 80+ years ago.  Today in Ukraine is the Worlds largest Jewish center, in Dnepropetrovsk.  The Rabbi of the center recently stated he is not worried about Ukrainians, he is worried about Putin's aggression against Ukraine.


http://ejewishphilanthropy.com/worlds-largest-jewish-center-opens-in-dnepropetrovsk/

[Ludmila]

Ukrainians did not treat Jews worse than did the Nazis.  Holocaust[edit]Holocaust in Ukraine: the mapThe atrocities against the Jewish population during the Holocaust started within a few days of the beginning of the Nazi occupation. There are indications that the Ukrainian auxiliary police was used in the round-up of Jews for the Babi Yar massacre^[8][9] and in other Ukrainian cities and towns, such as Stepan,^[10] Lviv,^[11][12] Lutsk,^[13] and Zhytomyr.^[14] On September 1, 1941, Nazi-controlled Ukrainian newspaper Volhyn wrote "The element that settled our cities (Jews)... must disappear completely from our cities. The Jewish problem is already in the process of being solved."^[15]
Anti-semitism had turned to a hatred of Jews by those Ukrainians who blamed Jews that had worked for Polish landlords, alongside with religious prejudice. Also, the murders of prisoners by Soviet secret police retreating eastwards from the German invasion were blamed on Jews. These feelings fueled ultra-nationalist Ukrainian militias which accompanied Nazi armies moving in eastern Europe.^[16] The German commander gave an enraged crowd in Boryslaw - who had seen bodies of young men murdered (by the Soviets, not Jews) and laid out in the town square - 24 hours to act as they wished against the Jews - they were forced to clean the dead bodies, to dance, and then killed by beating with axes, pipes, etc. The same sort of murders took place in Brzezany. In Lviv, some 9,000 Jews were murdered by Ukrainian nationalist extremists.^[16][17] As late as 1945, Ukrainian nationalists were still rounding up and murdering Jews.^[18]
In May 2006, the Ukrainian newspaper Ukraine Christian News commented: "Carrying out the massacre was the Einsatzgruppe C, supported by members of a Waffen-SS battalion and units of the Ukrainian auxiliary police, under the general command of Friedrich Jeckeln. The participation of Ukrainian collaborators in these events, now documented and proven, is a matter of painful public debate in Ukraine.".^[19]
While some of the collaborators were volunteers, others were no doubt given little choice. Ukrainians captured fighting for the Red Army were sometimes given the choice of possibly dying of near starvation and exposure in the ill-equipped POW camps reserved for the Red Army^[20] or working for the invaders as a hiwi, including duty in the concentration camps and ghettos as guards. The men selected for such duty were trained in the Trawniki concentration camp and were used in that part of the Final Solution known as Operation Reinhard. However, they were never fully trusted, and some would escape their enforced duty, sometimes along with the prisoners they were be guarding, and occasionally killing their SS commanders in the process.^[21][22]Collaborationist organizations, political movements, individuals, and military volunteers[edit]Auxiliary police[edit]German officers visiting the Schutzmannschaftant unit in Zarig, near Kiev.Main article: Ukrainian Auxiliary Police109, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 201-st Ukrainian Schutzmannschaftant-battalions participated in anti-partisan operations in Ukraine and Belarus. In February and March 1943, the 50th Ukrainian Schutzmannschaftant-battalion participated in the large anti-guerrilla action «Operation Winterzauber» (Winter magic) in Belarus, cooperating with several Latvian and the 2nd Lithuanian battalion. Schuma-battalions burned down villages suspected of supporting Soviet partisans.^[23] On March 22, 194, all the inhabitants of the village Chatyń in Belarus were burnt alive by the Nazis, with participation of the 118th Schutzmannschaft battalion ^[24][25]Ukrainian volunteers in the German armed forces[edit]

• Nachtigall Battalion
• Roland Battalion
• Freiwilligen-Stamm-Regiment 3 & 4 (Russians & Ukrainians)

SS Division "Galizien"[]Main article: 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Ukrainian)The volunteers of the SS-Freiwilligen-Schützen-Division «Galizien» marching in front of the Lviv University (1943).On 28 April 1943 the German Governor of District Galicia, Dr. Otto von Wächter, and the local Ukrainian administration officially declared the creation of the SS-Freiwilligen-Schützen-Division Galizien. Volunteers signed for service as of 3 June 1943 numbered 80 thousand.^[26] On 27 July 1944 the Galizien division was formed into the Waffen SS as 14. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (gal. Nr. 1).^[27]
The prevailing belief is that these men eagerly volunteered to take part in a patriotic war against the Soviets, not because of any support for Nazi Germany.^[28] Also, at least some of them were victims of compulsory conscription, since Germany had now suffered defeats and lost manpower on the eastern front.^[29] Sol Litman of the Simon Wiesenthal Center claims that there are many proven and documented incidents of atrocities and massacres committed by the Waffen-SS Galizien against minorities, particularly Jews during World War II.^[30] However other authors, including Michael Melnyk,^[29] and Michael O. Logusz,^[31] maintain that members of the division served almost entirely on the front lines against the Red Army and defend the unit against the accusations made by Litman and others. Official SS records show that the 4,5,6 and 7 SS-Freiwilligen regiments were under Ordnungspolizei command at the time of the accusations.^[27][32] Neither the division nor any of its former members were ever charged with any war crimes (see 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Ukrainian)#Accusations of war atrocities).

[Ludmila]

Holocaust[edit]Holocaust in Ukraine: the mapThe atrocities against the Jewish population during the Holocaust started within a few days of the beginning of the Nazi occupation. There are indications that the Ukrainian auxiliary police was used in the round-up of Jews for the Babi Yar massacre^[8][9] and in other Ukrainian cities and towns, such as Stepan,^[10] Lviv,^[11][12] Lutsk,^[13] and Zhytomyr.^[14] On September 1, 1941, Nazi-controlled Ukrainian newspaper Volhyn wrote "The element that settled our cities (Jews)... must disappear completely from our cities. The Jewish problem is already in the process of being solved."^[15]
Anti-semitism had turned to a hatred of Jews by those Ukrainians who blamed Jews that had worked for Polish landlords, alongside with religious prejudice. Also, the murders of prisoners by Soviet secret police retreating eastwards from the German invasion were blamed on Jews. These feelings fueled ultra-nationalist Ukrainian militias which accompanied Nazi armies moving in eastern Europe.^[16] The German commander gave an enraged crowd in Boryslaw - who had seen bodies of young men murdered (by the Soviets, not Jews) and laid out in the town square - 24 hours to act as they wished against the Jews - they were forced to clean the dead bodies, to dance, and then killed by beating with axes, pipes, etc. The same sort of murders took place in Brzezany. In Lviv, some 9,000 Jews were murdered by Ukrainian nationalist extremists.^[16][17] As late as 1945, Ukrainian nationalists were still rounding up and murdering Jews.^[18]
In May 2006, the Ukrainian newspaper Ukraine Christian News commented: "Carrying out the massacre was the Einsatzgruppe C, supported by members of a Waffen-SS battalion and units of the Ukrainian auxiliary police, under the general command of Friedrich Jeckeln. The participation of Ukrainian collaborators in these events, now documented and proven, is a matter of painful public debate in Ukraine.".^[19]
While some of the collaborators were volunteers, others were no doubt given little choice. Ukrainians captured fighting for the Red Army were sometimes given the choice of possibly dying of near starvation and exposure in the ill-equipped POW camps reserved for the Red Army^[20] or working for the invaders as a hiwi, including duty in the concentration camps and ghettos as guards. The men selected for such duty were trained in the Trawniki concentration camp and were used in that part of the Final Solution known as Operation Reinhard. However, they were never fully trusted, and some would escape their enforced duty, sometimes along with the prisoners they were be guarding, and occasionally killing their SS commanders in the process.^[21][22]

[Ludmila]

Ukrainians did not treat Jews worse than did the Nazis. 
I HOPE THE INFO ABOVE will help you to be slightly better than clueless, Boe. 

[AC]

And in Russia in the year 2014 a Russian Professor at a major Russian University encouraged genocide against Ukrainians.  Meanwhile Russian State TV (there are no alternatives) broadcast 24/7 hate speech against Ukraine and Ukrainians, telling vile lies and repeating them ad nauseam.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin

[Ludmila]

Sir, sources, please.

[Ludmila]

All I can see is a picture with an attached comment. It can be done by a any teen. itt is not a source. Anything worth looking at?

[Ludmila]

AC, there isn't a word about Putin or any concerns expressed by anyone whatsoever.
Have you added these words?
If you don't show me where you see these words in the article you've posted, it will be qualified as a flat lie, and will be a stigma on you forever. Hurry.

[AC]

AC, there isn't a word about Putin or any concerns expressed by anyone whatsoever.
Have you added these words?
If you don't show me where you see these words in the article you've posted, it will be qualified as a flat lie, and will be a stigma on you forever. Hurry.

I am in no hurry to prove anything to a redneck Russian chauvinist like you.  Google is your friend.



edit to add -- this link is for the readers of the forum who wish to know the truth about modern day Ukraine

http://maidantranslations.com/2014/03/05/open-letter-of-ukrainian-jews-to-russian-federation-president-vladimir-putin/

[Ludmila]

Thanks. Cannot be clearer. No  more questions. From this time on you will have a stigma of a liar and a fabricator of lies.

[Ludmila]

Oh really? Only Russians?
Wiki doesn't agree with you, though :
According to a 2007 report by the Anti-Defamation League, groups such as white power skinheads, neo-Nazis, and the Ku Klux Klan, have been growing more active in the United States in recent years, with a particular focus on opposing immigration, specifically from Mexico.^[2]

[AC]

Thanks. Cannot be clearer. No  more questions. From this time on you will have a stigma of a liar and a fabricator of lies.

Here you go lazy redneck Russian.  Let's see if you can read what the article says and where the Rabbi is from.

excerpt
DNIPROPETROVSK, Ukraine — From his office atop the world’s biggest Jewish community center, Shmuel Kaminezki, the chief rabbi of this eastern Ukrainian city, has followed with dismay Russian claims that Ukraine is now in the hands of neo-Nazi extremists — and has struggled to calm his panicked 85-year-old mother in New York.

Raised in Russia and a regular viewer of Russian television, she “calls every day to ask, ‘Have the pogroms happened yet?’ ” Rabbi Kaminezki said. He tells his mother that they have not, and that she should stop watching Russian TV. “It is a total lie,” he said. “Jews are not in danger in Ukraine.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/09/world/europe/ukraines-jews-dismiss-claims-of-anti-semitism.html?_r=0

[mendeleyev]

Ludmila, as someone from the outside who has closely observed both societies for a long time, neither country has clean hands.

In regards to Russia's record I have but one word: Holodomor.