So does anyone here ever go to Ukraine or Russia to date anymore?

[Patagonie]

Very good post, I also noticed he seemed negative.  However don't you agree he could choose a better city?  I think what Robocop wrote about being willing to visit a lady in a small village in Siberia is important!

Thank you AC.

Stay out of Odessa yes.
Stay out of Kiev, not necessary. But of course Dnepr or Kharkov are a little better. But in Kiev more fishes.

I never advise to go to the arse of the world. In more than 70 % of time there are no sparks and even if they are some chemistry relationships can blow away for natural reasons (discovering a major point which cannot be solved) or because of misunderstandings (cultural/language). As i realized last five years how much men are often  emotionnaly involved (we can see here how the poster is desillusioned of this lady (she is a prodater) i would not write that writing for months and packing all your balls in the same suitcase to go to the arse of the world to meet your one chance bullet is the best strategy, definitively not.
Not a lot men survives of this one bullet strategy, the survivors are here on rwd, but many have gone for ever.

[Nightwish]

Stay out of Odessa yes.

I have seen this over and over again.. can someone explain why.. I have found a couple of real jewels there that I am currently talking to.. so.. why? 

[LAman]

Thank you AC.

Stay out of Odessa yes.
Stay out of Kiev, not necessary. But of course Dnepr or Kharkov are a little better. But in Kiev more fishes.

I never advise to go to the arse of the world. In more than 70 % of time there are no sparks and even if they are some chemistry relationships can blow away for natural reasons (discovering a major point which cannot be solved) or because of misunderstandings (cultural/language). As i realized last five years how much men are often  emotionnaly involved (we can see here how the poster is desillusioned of this lady (she is a prodater) i would not write that writing for months and packing all your balls in the same suitcase to go to the arse of the world to meet your one chance bullet is the best strategy, definitively not.
Not a lot men survives of this one bullet strategy, the survivors are here on rwd, but many have gone for ever.

I hear that all the time, especially from some that have never been to those cities!! Why does one worry about fishing holes when they have the best bait, it is only ones with poor bait that look for unfished waters!!!!
It is not the city...it is not the country....it is the person looking at you in a mirror. If one has trouble dating at home then there will be troubles in other countries and not staying in one's 'league' can cause many isssues, to me its a self responsibility issue. If you have large age gap it brings a larger risk. And please, stop blaming girls for anything that doesn't go as one had hoped.

[RoboCop]

Thank you AC.

Stay out of Odessa yes.
Stay out of Kiev, not necessary. But of course Dnepr or Kharkov are a little better. But in Kiev more fishes.

I never advise to go to the arse of the world. In more than 70 % of time there are no sparks and even if they are some chemistry relationships can blow away for natural reasons (discovering a major point which cannot be solved) or because of misunderstandings (cultural/language). As i realized last five years how much men are often  emotionnaly involved (we can see here how the poster is desillusioned of this lady (she is a prodater) i would not write that writing for months and packing all your balls in the same suitcase to go to the arse of the world to meet your one chance bullet is the best strategy, definitively not.
Not a lot men survives of this one bullet strategy, the survivors are here on rwd, but many have gone for ever.

That's why I like these forums. It's always good get someone else's opinion on things, especially when their judgement on the matter has matured through personal experience.

I always thought by default, successful guys pursuing FSU women did what I did, or in Patagonie's words: "Travel to the arse of the world." (I went to Vladivostok on my first trip to meet a girl from the FSU, if that's considered apart of the "arse of the world" [I love that description]) Next time a friend asks for advice, I'll take that into consideration.

I'm starting to realize now it's avisable most men take more of a numbers game approach to this. I'm just glad I'm one of the survivors of these "one bullet strategies," (I really have to commend your use of metaphors) and didn't have to go through some of the more unpleasant experiences as some of the guys here have been through.

[Jumper]

If single and looking and I found  a good contact in Kiev or Odesa , sure they are  like any other city? No problem.

 If I'm a foreign guy, just randomly picking out a city to meet women,
then I'd feel there  are simply places less jaded,or full of MOB agency BS. The competition isn't the concern, the concern is women's perceptions of foreign men. It's a minor concern overall,as you can over come it. I've been to both cities, nothing bad there.
Still If i'm throwing a dart at the map.. just isn't where i'd go..
Probably go to St Pete as it seems interesting.
As always, your mileage may vary.

[AC]

That's why I like these forums. It's always good get someone else's opinion on things, especially when their judgement on the matter has matured through personal experience.

I always thought by default, successful guys pursuing FSU women did what I did, or in Patagonie's words: "Travel to the arse of the world." (I went to Vladivostok on my first trip to meet a girl from the FSU, if that's considered apart of the "arse of the world" [I love that description]) Next time a friend asks for advice, I'll take that into consideration.

I'm starting to realize now it's avisable most men take more of a numbers game approach to this. I'm just glad I'm one of the survivors of these "one bullet strategies," (I really have to commend your use of metaphors) and didn't have to go through some of the more unpleasant experiences as some of the guys here have been through.

While Patagonie is not a native English speaker, he certainly does have a way with words and he gets right to the point.  I like his metaphors very much as well!

[Patagonie]

If single and looking and I found  a good contact in Kiev or Odesa , sure they are  like any other city? No problem.

 If I'm a foreign guy, just randomly picking out a city to meet women,
then I'd feel there  are simply places less jaded,or full of MOB agency BS. The competition isn't the concern, the concern is women's perceptions of foreign men. It's a minor concern overall,as you can over come it. I've been to both cities, nothing bad there.
Still If i'm throwing a dart at the map.. just isn't where i'd go..
Probably go to St Pete as it seems interesting.
As always, your mileage may vary.

Very good point, men are a lot to earn from personal devolpment in many topics. So they can "compete" wherever they go.
But for a same SMV, the RIO will be slightly better in others cities than Kiev, Odessa, Moscow, St Pete

[Gator]

I have seen this over and over again.. can someone explain why.. I have found a couple of real jewels there that I am currently talking to.. so.. why? 

Have you met these two jewels?  As you transition from "just talking" to "planning a trip,"  tell us please about what you think.

BTW,     I realize it is not your first post, yet I missed the others.  We wish you success with UW.  FSUW can be very fine, loving women.

[Nightwish]

Have you met these two jewels?  As you transition from "just talking" to "planning a trip,"  tell us please about what you think.

BTW,     I realize it is not your first post, yet I missed the others.  We wish you success with UW.  FSUW can be very fine, loving women.

Thank you

I have not met them yet, in planning stage I call it, and they are both aware that I am coming down for a "face to face", one of them I have spoken to on Skype quite a lot, the other one is "no english- no english" so there we are still just getting to know each other via mail.

I have been to Ukraine twice and met two allready, one from Kherson that I had mail conversation with for 2 months before jumping on a plane, the other one I talked to online for two weeks, talked to her on Skype once and booked a plane the next day  .
Now I would say the one from Kherson wasn't ready for meeting a foreigner, we had a great and fun weekend in Kiev where she met up with me and a translator, but really no chemistry at all, despite very long and many letters where we seemed to be soulmates.. but like I said, she was not ready to meet a foreigner, we still have a little contact from time to time.

The other one was from Kiev, well the outskirts, and we really hit it off.. sexually.. but not really anything more. But it was a fun weekend where we hardly left the hotel room and I went home feeling like a sex-tourist 

So now I would say I changed approach and trying to get to know a couple of ladies and take a serious trip down and really get to know them in their environment, probably in a month or so.

[BillyB]

The other one was from Kiev, well the outskirts, and we really hit it off.. sexually.. but not really anything more. But it was a fun weekend where we hardly left the hotel room and I went home feeling like a sex-tourist 

Some guys get taken shopping, other guys get taken to bed. Hope you didn't go home feeling used.


Your name on the forum in honor of the band? I like their music.

[Nightwish]

Some guys get taken shopping, other guys get taken to bed. Hope you didn't go home feeling used.


Your name on the forum in honor of the band? I like their music.

ohh I felt so used.. so dirty..so..so..   

That band uses my nick out of honor to me.. I used it before them 

[mroz87]

Thank you

I have not met them yet, in planning stage I call it, and they are both aware that I am coming down for a "face to face", one of them I have spoken to on Skype quite a lot, the other one is "no english- no english" so there we are still just getting to know each other via mail.

I have been to Ukraine twice and met two allready, one from Kherson that I had mail conversation with for 2 months before jumping on a plane, the other one I talked to online for two weeks, talked to her on Skype once and booked a plane the next day  .
Now I would say the one from Kherson wasn't ready for meeting a foreigner, we had a great and fun weekend in Kiev where she met up with me and a translator, but really no chemistry at all, despite very long and many letters where we seemed to be soulmates.. but like I said, she was not ready to meet a foreigner, we still have a little contact from time to time.

The other one was from Kiev, well the outskirts, and we really hit it off.. sexually.. but not really anything more. But it was a fun weekend where we hardly left the hotel room and I went home feeling like a sex-tourist 

So now I would say I changed approach and trying to get to know a couple of ladies and take a serious trip down and really get to know them in their environment, probably in a month or so.

Nightwish, you are most likely a sex tourist, as many guys from the Scandinavia are. The difference is Scandinavian guys do less paying, unlike Turkish guys. Your location, your very generous government and good economy together make a very attractive combo. I have communicated with quite a number of women who expressed their desire to move to the Scandinavia specifically, due to the close distance to Ukraine. I am certain some women desperate for the 'better life' readily fall for it, intentionally or not. If Australia is that close to Ukraine, most Aussie guys would go in for the kill too, like you. Actually Aussie guys have been doing the same with some South East Asian women, but they are not my preference. Also, not every man shags and runs.

The more smarter and experienced UW won't get taken for a ride, like the one you met from Kherson. This woman sensed that vibe from you, and took a few steps back. She was ready to meet you, hence the many long letters for 2 months. Without a doubt, this woman had interest in you. UW doesn't do two months of long communication with any random guy. Many UW work long hours. They have thousands of profile views within 3 months of setting up a profile, and try equals that to the number of messages they get. You were special in the beginning, but your vibe set you off. Because she knows what you want to do, you know, that type of activity with the Kiev lady.

That Kiev lady is not good marriageable woman either. The keywords there are 'a fun weekend' as you said. UW knows western european guys hop in on Friday and hop off Sunday night to have quick sex. No decent UW wants such 'fun weekend', and that is especially so without long meaningful communication like the one you described with that Kherson lady. Due to the close distance to western Europe, guys from there will actually be tested or assessed more because why not, it's only 3 hours away. If he means well, he can come again easily next weekend, the weekend after and so on. A drive from Kiev to Kharkov takes an even longer time, just saying. I am almost 90% sure that Kiev lady sleeps with many foreign men, and see which one got taken by that 'deal' or trap, so she can go get a 'better life'. She might be one of the erotic masseuse or local hooker, who knows.

With my local contact providing much vital information about the local culture, I can tell any readers that immediate 'fun weekend' is not how it works with 99% UW. Actually UW is more open minded than ladies from other countries. UW specifically wants to move in and live with the boyfriend. This is a mandatory process, and that is when sex occurs. The move is a simulation of a real life marriage, before actually tying the knot. Their parents also actively encourage that move, unlike parents from other countries especially Asia who think their daughters are being 'used'. That move is not immediate, but it will happen. It will happen soon enough, but not so soon if the guys don't have enough face time. Men from US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand don't have much face time, because there are just that much days off they can take in one year. And these men don't have the luxury of hopping in and out during weekends. This is where these men lose out, unless the UW readjusted that local formula and shortening the 'assessment time', and by doing so, exposes her to the risk of meeting a short term sex tourist. If she ever did that and you are a man from one of these countries, that is with 100% certainty you are now in a real relationship leading all the way to marriage.

I know a few posters are going to argue and belittle what I have said. Go ahead if that fills some empty parts of your life. I do not post this to 'ruffle any feathers'. I posted so other readers can read how the process is usually done with most marriageable UWs.

[jone]

Nightwish -

Get Clownfish for Skype.  Then everything you write will be converted into her language.  It is instantaneous and it is such an easy software program that even Calmissile could figure it out.

[Boethius]

No decent UW wants such 'fun weekend', and that is especially so without long
meaningful communication

I disagree.  Women, like men, enjoy sex.  Women, like men, are different.  A decent woman may fall into bed with a man early in a relationship.  It doesn't make her less marriageable, if that is an end goal.

[northkape]

I agree with many things that has been said in this thread,,,,

Here I'm adding my opinions, about some of the reasons, why so many fail at this endeavor.

When selecting and writing, before traveling to meet ladies:
A lack of planning and preparation about where to go and how to introduce yourself.
Using the wrong Internet tools, aka Agencies where it is difficult to get the woman out of the agency.
Ask for being scammed, by women that are far above their own "league" and are actually working in these agencies.
Not planning and presenting their profile, their intro letters and their photos, in the best possible way.
E-mailing a limited number of these "half cooked" intro letters to a few women based on their website appearance alone.
Starting out with too small a selection, and maybe half of them selected because of PhotoShop enhancements.
Selecting women that are too far apart in geographical distance, wasting a lot of time and money.
Not properly verifying that their prospects are truly interested in them through free Skype or other means.
Unable to decide for themselves what kind of a woman and personality they are looking for in a partner.
Having a lot of "misguided" beliefs about what cities are best or not, and how to find the "right woman".
Selecting a woman with little or no English, without understanding the consequences.
Getting emotionally involved with one or several of the women before having met with them.
Misguided romantics by promising a woman that they will come to "meet with her only" on their first meeting.
Telling a woman, before meeting, when they will arrive, where they will stay, and that she is the reason for their trip.

When meeting with them, preferably in their hometown:
Being blended by one woman at the start of the trip, and not following through with their plan.
Lacking the understanding of language based misunderstandings at the start of such relationships.
Being overly suspicious and looking for "red flags", instead of using common sense and a little patience.
Thinking that they are somehow "saving" this woman from a life in a worthless country.
Trying to "buy or impress" a woman with the help of money and gifts.

In general lacking a good plan for meeting with several possible prospects when going there.
Wasting their limited resources of time an money, on extended meetings with "no go" candidates.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two years ago, in January 2013, my Ukraine wife through the last 13 years made the final decision to divorce.
We had a friendly parting and decided that our twin boys at 9, would live mostly with me, because of school,++++.
After some thinking, I knew that I didn't want to be alone, and started planning an extensive search for a new Ukraine wife.
I didn't want my quest to fail or drag out in time, so I set a time limit of one year to find my new Ukraine Wife.
And another year for dating and living together with her before finally marrying, which turned out to be almost spot on.

Having learned what to do and not, in Internet dating 13 years earlier, I decided to thoroughly plan my search this time.
I was absolutely sure, that with proper planning and good execution, it would be relatively easy to find her in Ukraine.
A country that is absolutely overflowing with beautiful women in all ages, looking for a good man to marry with.
To my surprise, it was far easier than I had imagined, as I found several that I could have easily married with.

Those interested, can read about some of my ways, to avoid falling into the above traps on page 20 of my story:
Update - 13 years later...... : http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15509.475

And for the discussion about what cities to avoid or not,,,,,
In my opinion, you will find better educated, and more independent women in the larger cities, especially in Kiev.
Many strong and adventurous women, moved there after finishing at the university, for a better job and higher salaries.
They are more often than not, smart and adaptable women, that will easily learn languages and fit well into a new society.
At least for me, that is the kind of a woman I was looking for, and most of the women I met with, were from larger cities.

mroz87,,,
I don't agree much about your view of Kiev as more of a wasteland now than in the last 15 years, when I first came there.
About hookers,,, I still see the same amount of them standing in their spots, when driving in and out of Kiev.

About your last posting....
I feel a little sorry for you, when reading your somewhat twisted view, of the same reality that I feel very familiar with,,,
In my view, Nightwish is telling an ordinary story about dating, happening to many men going to Ukraine in search of a wife.
And no, Scandinavian countries are not especially popular among Ukraine women thinking about moving to a foreign country.
Go visit the Global Visa Centre in Kiev and look at the amount of operator booths for the various countries.
Norway / Iceland shares 2, Sweden 2 and then larger countries like Germany, Italy, Spain has 8-12 booths.
When spending close to 2 full days there, me and Tanya were almost alone in the Scandinavian section.
While there were a lot of young women in the rooms of the popular southern countries,,, 

[Patagonie]

I disagree.  Women, like men, enjoy sex.  Women, like men, are different.  A decent woman may fall into bed with a man early in a relationship.  It doesn't make her less marriageable, if that is an end goal.

+5

[Nightwish]

Nightwish, you are most likely a sex tourist, as many guys from the Scandinavia are. The difference is Scandinavian guys do less paying, unlike Turkish guys. Your location, your very generous government and good economy together make a very attractive combo. I have communicated with quite a number of women who expressed their desire to move to the Scandinavia specifically, due to the close distance to Ukraine. I am certain some women desperate for the 'better life' readily fall for it, intentionally or not. If Australia is that close to Ukraine, most Aussie guys would go in for the kill too, like you. Actually Aussie guys have been doing the same with some South East Asian women, but they are not my preference. Also, not every man shags and runs.

The more smarter and experienced UW won't get taken for a ride, like the one you met from Kherson. This woman sensed that vibe from you, and took a few steps back. She was ready to meet you, hence the many long letters for 2 months. Without a doubt, this woman had interest in you. UW doesn't do two months of long communication with any random guy. Many UW work long hours. They have thousands of profile views within 3 months of setting up a profile, and try equals that to the number of messages they get. You were special in the beginning, but your vibe set you off. Because she knows what you want to do, you know, that type of activity with the Kiev lady.

That Kiev lady is not good marriageable woman either. The keywords there are 'a fun weekend' as you said. UW knows western european guys hop in on Friday and hop off Sunday night to have quick sex. No decent UW wants such 'fun weekend', and that is especially so without long meaningful communication like the one you described with that Kherson lady. Due to the close distance to western Europe, guys from there will actually be tested or assessed more because why not, it's only 3 hours away. If he means well, he can come again easily next weekend, the weekend after and so on. A drive from Kiev to Kharkov takes an even longer time, just saying. I am almost 90% sure that Kiev lady sleeps with many foreign men, and see which one got taken by that 'deal' or trap, so she can go get a 'better life'. She might be one of the erotic masseuse or local hooker, who knows.

With my local contact providing much vital information about the local culture, I can tell any readers that immediate 'fun weekend' is not how it works with 99% UW. Actually UW is more open minded than ladies from other countries. UW specifically wants to move in and live with the boyfriend. This is a mandatory process, and that is when sex occurs. The move is a simulation of a real life marriage, before actually tying the knot. Their parents also actively encourage that move, unlike parents from other countries especially Asia who think their daughters are being 'used'. That move is not immediate, but it will happen. It will happen soon enough, but not so soon if the guys don't have enough face time. Men from US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand don't have much face time, because there are just that much days off they can take in one year. And these men don't have the luxury of hopping in and out during weekends. This is where these men lose out, unless the UW readjusted that local formula and shortening the 'assessment time', and by doing so, exposes her to the risk of meeting a short term sex tourist. If she ever did that and you are a man from one of these countries, that is with 100% certainty you are now in a real relationship leading all the way to marriage.

I know a few posters are going to argue and belittle what I have said. Go ahead if that fills some empty parts of your life. I do not post this to 'ruffle any feathers'. I posted so other readers can read how the process is usually done with most marriageable UWs.

I can say that you are quite wrong in your assumptions, but that's ok, you are entitled to your opinion and belief..how ever..

Your very wrooooong   

[mroz87]

I disagree.  Women, like men, enjoy sex.  Women, like men, are different.  A decent woman may fall into bed with a man early in a relationship.  It doesn't make her less marriageable, if that is an end goal.

Agree to your disagreement. I don't usually recommend reading too much into the semantics, but this time it is a little exception. I said 99% marriageable women, so I don't mean all, and that 99% figure will not be accurate either. The general impression is that the figure should be high. My best friend had sex with his girlfriend within weeks of meeting. They are happily married now. I also heard of ONS that goes on to be marriage, but let's be honest, it does not usually go like that.

[BillyB]

In my view, Nightwish is telling an ordinary story about dating, happening to many men going to Ukraine in search of a wife.

A guy doesn't have to be a sex tourist to get sex. The cases can happen to marriage minded men. Nightwish and the lady weren't a perfect match for marriage but the lady had some needs to be taken care of and Nightwish was in the right spot at the right time to take care of those needs.


mroz87, you've met numerous ladies during your visit. Imagine the most beautiful and/or the one that's most appealing to your mind overall invites you into her bed and wants you to stay there to have mind blowing sex. Would you refuse and label her unworthy of marriage?

[mroz87]

mroz87,,,
I don't agree much about your view of Kiev as more of a wasteland now than in the last 15 years, when I first came there.
About hookers,,, I still see the same amount of them standing in their spots, when driving in and out of Kiev.

About your last posting....
I feel a little sorry for you, when reading your somewhat twisted view, of the same reality that I feel very familiar with,,,
In my view, Nightwish is telling an ordinary story about dating, happening to many men going to Ukraine in search of a wife.
And no, Scandinavian countries are not especially popular among Ukraine women thinking about moving to a foreign country.
Go visit the Global Visa Centre in Kiev and look at the amount of operator booths for the various countries.
Norway / Iceland shares 2, Sweden 2 and then larger countries like Germany, Italy, Spain has 8-12 booths.
When spending close to 2 full days there, me and Tanya were almost alone in the Scandinavian section.
While there were a lot of young women in the rooms of the popular southern countries,,,

Which road do you take while driving into Kiev? There are only a few roads into the city center, and I did not see any hookers standing on the streets. You are essentially countering the guy who had just been to Kiev, just saying. Or do you easily associate any skimpily dressed women as hookers?

Please don't feel sorry for me. I am not sad or anything close to that. There are no twisted views. Most of the information from my post addressing Nightwish came from local Ukrainians. And it is not an attack on Nightwish. He shares similar thinking with many men who went and I am not going to elaborate more on this 'thinking' format. Note he said he had sex with this Kiev lady, but there's 'nothing much' after that. Lol....plenty of love indeed, and let's forget about marriage. If this is not sex tourism, I don't know what it is. I am also careful not to force my opinion, by using the word 'probably', since I do not know him. But if I see a sex tourist in Kiev, I can smell that right away.

If sex must be done, then so be it. I am not judgemental. It is a free world. I am seeing this thread going into a 'get sex = win' and 'anything else = probably failed' camps. Any further postings are meant to be more split, and men being men, I think I will get more distance from most posters since it is not in the nature of men to be associated with that 'failure of not getting sex'. Also, I see some postings have some assumptions built in regards to whether I got sex or not, or that my entire trip was with that pro-dater only. If anyone has been noticing, I have not provided the full picture of my trip, and I usually refrain from talking about my sex life, especially if there were some in Kiev. I prefer to keep it that way, and probably leave this thread because I see many postings are getting more and more personal.

My humble opinion: the posts must be useful, including to lurkers who read but did not join the forum. This thread is losing this purpose as I see it.

Northkape, you married 13 years ago. Back then it was quite a desperate time for UW and RW. Some women actually married to Africa just to leave. I will not be surprised sex was easier that time. If you had similar experience like Nightwish in regards to sex, please note that it is not an attack against you. You did married for 13 years, so that was good for you in that sense. I wish your new marriage works out even better

[GregfromGa]

I've been to Kiev more than a few times since 2001. The last time, last Feb well lets just say it was a mess. Independence Square was filled with tents and burning tires and wood. There's a chance I might go back this summer. I cant imagine that well being dry. I might take my daughter to spend 10 days with her cousins there. I remember sitting on my balcony on Khreshatic St watching the people, hanging out with new friends I made in Obrien's and enjoying the food. Ukraine is a mess now and someone certainly is to blame.

[mroz87]

A guy doesn't have to be a sex tourist to get sex. The cases can happen to marriage minded men. Nightwish and the lady weren't a perfect match for marriage but the lady had some needs to be taken care of and Nightwish was in the right spot at the right time to take care of those needs.


mroz87, you've met numerous ladies during your visit. Imagine the most beautiful and/or the one that's most appealing to your mind overall invites you into her bed and wants you to stay there to have mind blowing sex. Would you refuse and label her unworthy of marriage?

Billy, your question is an easy bait asking for an answer that is already predictable. Let me rephrase it, or let me suggest an alternative scenario. Let say I have good going with three ladies. I can tell sex is guaranteed with all of them, and I am confident I can get sex from all of them during this trip. The question is: What will I do? I won't answer that, but I can tell what a sex tourist will do. A sex tourist will shag all three of them. But he might be 'marriage minded', and keep the serious stuff with the one he likes most.

Let's change the scenario a little. This guy likes Lady A the most, but sex is only offered by Lady B and C. If he shags Lady B and C, then again he is a sex tourist. You can also call him a player, but there is a difference. A player plays in his own home turf, and does not rely on the 'easiness' offered by certain poorer countries. That is why a player is given a more 'alpha' status while sex tourists don't get the same treatment.

Removing Lady C, this is a bit like Nightwish's scenario. So he shagged Lady B, but after that 'nothing more'. Nightwish also said now he would change approach and try to get to know a couple of ladies and take a serious trip down. Ahem....the first trip was apparently not serious enough. After shagging Lady B, well, he indicated he wanted to get to know a couple more ladies. Lady B is obviously not his first, second or third choice. Now he is looking for more Ladies B type, potentially of course, since I don't read his mind.

If Nightwish got serious with Lady B and he is planning for another WOVO trip to Lady B, then I would have given the 'high five' to him.

Assuming Lady B is serious (not as I described previously), she must be feeling quite jaded now. Next time she sees another foreign men, why not use him just like she got used? What happens to the next foreign man who got used by Lady B? This next foreign man would have thought: screw it, I'll be a sex tourist and still be 'marriage minded', repeating that scenario above. Then the cycle continues. Guys, what comes around goes around. The problem is some western men came and screwed everything up leaving a mess for all subsequent comers.

Billy, back to your comment about the lady having 'needs'. You talked like Nightwish was doing her a favor, by shagging and leaving her. One thing is clear, Nightwish was not in the right spot at the right time. He intentionally went to see her. Another thing that is obvious is Nightwish wasn't quite interested in her, but his logic seems to be 'a free shag is a good shag'.

Also, there are at least a few months between trips for most guys. There are plenty of time there for that 'need' to arise, and there are many local guys on the right place at the right time. Do you want such lady who will take care of that need with other men on the right place and at the right time?

[BillyB]

Assuming Lady B is serious (not as I described previously), she must be feeling quite jaded now. Next time she sees another foreign men, why not use him just like she got used? What happens to the next foreign man who got used by Lady B?

The lady is an adult and is in control of her body.  If Nightwish lied to her to get her into bed, that would be wrong but that is speculation. What we do know is he's here on a forum for men who seeks marriage with an FSU woman. Sex tourists primarily look for prostitutes. Just pay them to lay them. There isn't the hassle or expense of dating for days/weeks and coming out empty handed.


Having sex doesn't mean a man and a woman must automatically commit into a relationship. You took a lady on numerous shopping trips and that too doesn't mean she must commit to a relationship. You took a chance spending money on a woman. A woman took a chance getting into bed with Nightwish. Everybody is still single. For all we know, the woman dumped Nightwish or they parted ways knowing they were incompatible in every way except in sex.

[jone]

The lady is an adult and is in control of her body.  If Nightwish lied to her to get her into bed, that would be wrong but that is speculation. What we do know is he's here on a forum for men who seeks marriage with an FSU woman. Sex tourists primarily look for prostitutes. Just pay them to lay them. There isn't the hassle or expense of dating for days/weeks and coming out empty handed.


Having sex doesn't mean a man and a woman must automatically commit into a relationship. You took a lady on numerous shopping trips and that too doesn't mean she must commit to a relationship. You took a chance spending money on a woman. A woman took a chance getting into bed with Nightwish. Everybody is still single. For all we know, the woman dumped Nightwish or they parted ways knowing they were incompatible in every way except in sex.

Is that kinda like the 'Stoop to Poop' rant we were on last week?

[AC]

Nightwish, you are most likely a sex tourist, as many guys from the Scandinavia are. The difference is Scandinavian guys do less paying, unlike Turkish guys. Your location, your very generous government and good economy together make a very attractive combo. I have communicated with quite a number of women who expressed their desire to move to the Scandinavia specifically, due to the close distance to Ukraine. I am certain some women desperate for the 'better life' readily fall for it, intentionally or not. If Australia is that close to Ukraine, most Aussie guys would go in for the kill too, like you. Actually Aussie guys have been doing the same with some South East Asian women, but they are not my preference. Also, not every man shags and runs.

Is this what the pro-daters who you've been "dating" have told you?  That only bad men and bad women have sex?  I've been holding back here but I don't think I've seen a more uptight guy on this board in awhile.  I think if things are not working out for you perhaps you should take a look in the mirror, and practice dating back home.

It's not the 1950's and the great thing about many FSU women is that they do enjoy sex and they don't seem to have the mental hang-ups about it that you are expressing here.  Yes, there are FSUW who would be very happy to get laid for a weekend, and no they are not "bad" women and yes they are still possibly marriage material.  I think that they are far more flexible about life then you appear to be, that's all.

Now go ahead and remind me that I'm not married again, if it makes you happy.