Rich Americans

[Son of Clyde]

I attended a pre-retirement seminar at work and the speaker was talking about the material things you CAN see. These are the big houses, fancy cars and jewelry people tend to flaunt.

What people seldom flaunt is their credit card balances and debt.

In a society where people tend to spend as soon as they earn, I am wondering if RW have a false impression of American wealth. They see the material things but not the debt. People are not likely to say they are in hock up to their ears for that new car and new house. In the US it is all about appearance.

[Sohkay]

Clyde, You make a global statement. "In the US it is all about appearance."

Oh, it is? Well it's not that way in my life. And not that way in the lives of some other people I know. And yes, with some people it is very much about appearance. But the point is...not all.

Also, you never answered my question from your posting the other day about your wife travelling to see her family and friends. Did your wife ask if it was affordable to do, or did she just state that this is what she wanted?

[Son of Clyde]

She wants to visit Ukraine and so does her son.
She wanted to go on a specific date to get cheaper rates.
There was a downside:
1) the school year will not be over
2) she gave me 1 days notice after talking with a friend who she wanted to travel with
3) I would have to drive to JFK airport
So to answer your question. Yes, she wanted this and yes I promised it. She needs to know that this needs to be planned. It is not spur of the moment.

Sohkay, you are not me so your life is different. I think there is some validity in my statement.

[Bruno]

In a society where people tend to spend as soon as they earn, ...

"as soon as they earn"... not so bad... several people spend before they earn something... but don't worry, Russian and Ukrainian learn fast... credit card begin slowly be in the norm in FSU...

[PeeWee]

I attended a pre-retirement seminar at work and the speaker was talking about the material things you CAN see. These are the big houses, fancy cars and jewelry people tend to flaunt.

What people seldom flaunt is their credit card balances and debt.

In a society where people tend to spend as soon as they earn, I am wondering if RW have a false impression of American wealth. They see the material things but not the debt. People are not likely to say they are in hock up to their ears for that new car and new house. In the US it is all about appearance.

Yep.  About a month ago I had a conversation with Lena about this. I was telling why both the man and the woman work and who really owned both the house and the car. We are a credit dependent society. I blame the greedy banks and big busness for that. Why do we need a new car every three years, as some people beleive?

Peewee

[PeeWee]

Clyde, You make a global statement. "In the US it is all about appearance."

Oh, it is? Well it's not that way in my life. And not that way in the lives of some other people I know. And yes, with some people it is very much about appearance. But the point is...not all.

Also, you never answered my question from your posting the other day about your wife travelling to see her family and friends. Did your wife ask if it was affordable to do, or did she just state that this is what she wanted?

There will always be the exception, Sohkay, but "generally" speaking our nation is very materialistic and appearance concious. Same could be said about FSU women. They are very appearance concious based on the type and style of the clothing they wear.

Peewee

[Sohkay]

And the male bird preens his feathers.

And yes, many in the U.S., the U.K, the U.A.E. are quite conscious of appearances. It's a worldwide phenomena. The point is though, be careful of making "global" statements, statements that say that "all" are a certain way.

Clyde, between the camera issue, and now, one days notice for a trip, it sounds like she needs to start practicing a little more awareness, diplomacy and consideration of the family. But, then again, maybe these things are OK with you. But THEN AGAIN, why would you be posting about these things unless you were putting some level of importance on them?

[Wild Orchid*]

"as soon as they earn"... not so bad... several people spend before they earn something... but don't worry, Russian and Ukrainian learn fast... credit card begin slowly be in the norm in FSU...

I’m using credit card for many years now, I look almost after all our finances, and I pay all the bills. I had to pay credit card interest only once because we were overseas and missed a payment. Some RW can be good with money.

[Wild Orchid*]

There was a downside:
1) the school year will not be over
2) she gave me 1 days notice after talking with a friend who she wanted to travel with
3) I would have to drive to JFK airport
So to answer your question. Yes, she wanted this and yes I promised it. She needs to know that this needs to be planned. It is not spur of the moment.

Did you ask her would if go on that specific date if she didn’t know about her friend? Looks like that was the main reason for the trip. Remembering your stepson problems at school, she is willing to go before school year finishes. She gives you 1 day notice; there is a money issue…  ???

[Bruno]

Remembering your stepson problems at school, she is willing to go before school year finishes.

Very good remarks... I don't know how it work in US but here, a child cannot stop go to school for reason like a trip to Ukraine... someone dead in family, marriage allow 2 days... other, need a certificate of doctor in case of illness... Not following the rule ( law ) can lead to justice problem for parents, payback of state money for study too...

Strange that someone can stop school so easily... education is a right for children and a duty to parent for provide it...

If she ready a lot of big bagage, ask her if she plan return... one way ticket is more cheap that a two way... my ex-wife have send back her daughter to Russia around 1 month before her asking for divorce... She have go with child to Russia for Christmas and come back alone... She have use these fact for try make pression on me for the divorce... It is what have happen with me, this can happen with other.

[Son of Clyde]

Cool Modify button used.

[Shadow]

I am revealing more than I wanted to.

Check out the cool 'modify' button 
If you had time, you could call the school and ask permission. If there are no exams you might get it.

[PeeWee]

I’m using credit card for many years now, I look almost after all our finances, and I pay all the bills. I had to pay credit card interest only once because we were overseas and missed a payment. Some RW can be good with money.

I said it somewhere else, WO, that my friend told me the other day that she believes that to find the same item somewhere else for a lower price that the money saved is like getting a second income. I like that thinking.

Peewee

[Todd]

I wanted to address a couple of the comments here about "Rich Americans". 

First, one of the things that I did is to share a budget with Kate so that she could understand the costs of living in the US. She actually found it very interesting.

Second, waiting until the last minute to book fares might snag you some excellent deals.  However, it is a poor strategy during peak periods.  Generally, fares tend to decline dramatically with 21 days advance purchase.

Third, Wild Orchid mentioned that she had a fee assessed on one credit card as a result of being overseas.  I actually had that happen last month when I had an extended stay in Saudi Arabia.  I called them up when I return, told them why I had missed a payment, and they immediately reversed the charges.  Credit card companies are making less and less of their money presently on interest payments and more on interchange (merchant fees.)  Thus, the last thing they would want to do is alienate a charging customer....especially one that is travelling overseas...which implies an attractive demographic.

[BC]

I just have CC bills sent straight to the bank and they take care of it all.. no hassle, no fuss, no fees/interest.

[Son of Clyde]

Todd,

I was telling her a long time ago we should book a flight at least 6 weeks in advance and heard nothing further about it. Then I was hit by the bomb; she could get cheaper rates if I book tomorrow. It was because her girlfriend knew a good travel agent and was booking her flight tomorrow. What???? So much for that plan.

I would not have been the least bit angry had it been planned out. Now it seems we will have to pay peak season prices because I failed to book early. I am still not sure who will be going because my stepson may need to attend summer school and he just made the soccer team at his school.

[Sohkay]

Clyde,
Put your foot down and get this situation under control. She's gonna' run you ragged if you don't. This situation will continue to grow ugly blossoms. I actually see her rude behavior about the camera as a predecessor to what you're now experiencing.

That's my opinion.

Also, thank you for your posts. It's a real learning experience that many can benefit from.

[Jumper]

Clyde-

i would agree with you that most people in the FSU understandably
view Americans as indeed wealthy.

I would also say you have an excellent point that they do not fully understand just how intergrated the credit system  is in the American way of life..
most of the cars and houses are indeed heavily financed , that wouldnt be something commonly understood from the outside looking in.


However!
I would add that it would be hard pressed to find a culture more obsessed with showing thier own wealth or material things than the FSU?

*Generally* They will certainly spend thier last dime to impress at dinner, with clothes,watch, jewelry , with a car , or whatever..
you couldnt be more designer label conciuos?
men and women.
it is far worse than here.They win this parade , absolutely no contest.

Also as Bruno noted:

that previuosly *all cash* based  society, is quickly becoming a credit one!!
and VERY quickly.
Now that you can actually finance a car, you canot imagine the difference in the traffic in just two years time.
and of course Lexus , Hummers, BMW, Mercedes..bently ..lol 

if you think flaunting stuff is an issue here,,
just wait another year or two and visit the FSU..

heck right NOW the clothes this season in the FSU -

look like elvis and liberaci married and prodiced offspring..
crossed with a little Elton John!

there havnt been so many rhinstones seen,
  since campbells infamous song.

LMFAO.

[PeeWee]

Clyde-

i would agree with you that most people in the FSU understandably
view Americans as indeed wealthy.

I would also say you have an excellent point that they do not fully understand just how intergrated the credit system  is in the American way of life..
most of the cars and houses are indeed heavily financed , that wouldnt be something commonly understood from the outside looking in.


However!
I would add that it would be hard pressed to find a culture more obsessed with showing thier own wealth or material things than the FSU?

*Generally* They will certainly spend thier last dime to impress at dinner, with clothes,watch, jewelry , with a car , or whatever..
you couldnt be more designer label conciuos?
men and women.
it is far worse than here.They win this parade , absolutely no contest.

Also as Bruno noted:

that previuosly *all cash* based  society, is quickly becoming a credit one!!
and VERY quickly.
Now that you can actually finance a car, you canot imagine the difference in the traffic in just two years time.
and of course Lexus , Hummers, BMW, Mercedes..bently ..lol 

if you think flaunting stuff is an issue here,,
just wait another year or two and visit the FSU..

heck right NOW the clothes this season in the FSU -

look like elvis and liberaci married and prodiced offspring..
crossed with a little Elton John!

there havnt been so many rhinstones seen,
  since campbells infamous song.

LMFAO.

One of my most favorite spectator sports is to find a streetside pub along Moscow's Old Arbat street, get a beer, and watch the show.

I don't know, Clyde. I have found better airfares via travel agencies than I have online. The last time I purchased a ticket was for a flight from SEA to SVO. Aeroflot was not even listed by Expedia or Travelocity. I knew Aeroflot had a nonstop but no listing. I called Red Star Travel. They booked the flight for me. Same one time when I bought a ticket for my son to travel to China. The best fair I could find online was 1,100.00. I called a Chinese travel agent...and 700.00 for the same flight on the same day.

Peewee

Peewee

[BradSTL]

Clyde--- I also appreciate your post, a learning experience, indeed!

I would disagree that Clyde's opening post was universal, his statement that in the U-S its all about appearance is an accurate reflection of the overall trend in household finances.

Got a suprise from a Moldovan girl I chat with at mail.ru, she knew that the average personal debt (primarily credit card debt) in the U-S was more than $9,000 per household.  She has learned how to calculate APR costs and asked how you pay off the principal, and I replied consistently and slowly.

I believe the english-speaking folks in the east are getting better at using search engines and unearthing the data held by the U-S government and various foundations.

But, in fact, Americans are one of the wealthiest societies on the planet (per-capita), and there is no disputing the figures.

[BC]

But, in fact, Americans are one of the wealthiest societies on the planet (per-capita), and there is no disputing the figures.

Wonder what the ranking would be if you subtracted the national debt (per-capita)

[PeeWee]

Wonder what the ranking would be if you subtracted the national debt (per-capita)

Debt might be one way to access it, BC, but I think too that the assets to liabilities ratio might be a more telling  story. I think most Americans would fair better if one looked at their assets, including home equity, as opposed to credit card debt, car payments, and home mortgages.

Pewee

[DKMM]

Still ahead of Italy, heh heh.

America has the strongest economy in the world, larger than the EU and with half the people (less total national debt too).   And you bet Russians know that.

[Leslie]

Deleted due to predictable response.  All opinions and no fact.  This is not an economics forum.  I should have known better.

[PeeWee]

FYI  "GDP" is a common measure of material prosperity.

"If the European Union were a state in the USA it would belong to the poorest group of states. France, Italy, Great Britain and Germany have lower GDP per capita than all but four of the states in the United States. In fact, GDP per capita is lower in the vast majority of the EU-countries (EU 15) than in most of the individual American states. This puts Europeans at a level of prosperity on par with states such as Arkansas, Mississippi and West Virginia. Only the miniscule country of Luxembourg has higher per capita GDP than the average state in the USA. The results of the new study represent a grave critique of European economic policy.

Stark differences become apparent when comparing official economic statistics. Europe lags behind the USA when comparing GDP per capita and GDP growth rates. The current economic debate among EU leaders lacks an understanding of the gravity of the situation in many European countries. Structural reforms of the European economy as well as far reaching welfare reforms are well overdue. The Lisbon process lacks true impetus, nor is it sufficient to improve the economic prospects of the EU."

EU versus USA is written by Dr Fredrik Bergström, President of the Swedish Research Institute of Trade, and Mr Robert Gidehag, until recently Chief Economist of the same institute and now President of the Swedish Taxpayer's Association.


The above was written in 2004. Has anything change dramaticly since then? In the first quarter of 2006 the GDP for the EU25 rose by .07% while at the same time the US GDP rose by 1.3%. Growth is good, yes?  If I am understanding this correctly than the US of A is pretty much on top of their game these days.

Peewee