It's me again folks, and I have yet another question!

[AC]

Well we have conformation.  I just got a message back from the real woman on VK.  She's never heard of me and has no idea about any of this.  So yep, some sort of scam. 
   Now I will try and get the actual scammer to tell me what the end goal was.  It's a long shot, but I have heard stories about them eventually cracking and coming clean.  Might as well give it a shot.  I may learn something.

OCD.   

[Anathema]

 

[TheBullRDR]

I wouldn't say OCD.  I would say a good chance to learn all I can about the scams out there straight from the horses mouth which will help avoid them in the future.  Stick your head in the sand if you like, I want all the information I can get.  And if I can actually get one of them talking to me straight, that would be a wealth of information I would otherwise never have access to. 

[Boethius]

Drop her! Drop her now and restrict your searches to non-dictatorial nations. That eliminates Belarus, Muscovy, and the 'Stans. It's difficult enough to find and date a woman in eastern Europe/FSU without having to worry about being governmentally harassed every step of the way. I have had two lifetime memorial relationships with EEW/FSUW in the last nine years, the first Bulgarian, the second (my present fiancee) Ukrainian. You would have to be extremely desperate to search for a partner in the reestablished semi-Soviet tyranny of the Muscovite-dominated Eurasian Economic Union.

I married my husband before the collapse of the USSR.  We were, in fact, governmentally harrassed, and he was denied an exit visa until the collapse.  I wasn't desperate, and if I knew all I know now, I would do it again.
 
I don't think any governments of the FSU now harass citizens who marry foreigners.

[Boethius]

I wouldn't say OCD.  I would say a good chance to learn all I can about the scams out there straight from the horses mouth which will help avoid them in the future.  Stick your head in the sand if you like, I want all the information I can get.  And if I can actually get one of them talking to me straight, that would be a wealth of information I would otherwise never have access to.

There are a thousand variations on scams, so what do you expect to learn?
 
I've read stories here in the past, about meeting parents, about delivering flowers and having a photo taken with them.  Turns out, at least in Ukraine, that some scammers hired "parents" to meet men who arrived and demanded meeting them, and flowers are often purchased at inflated prices, a photo taken, and the flowers are returned to the shop, with everyone along the way getting a cut of the action. 
 
Just follow your instincts, and never send money to someone you don't know, no matter how desperate the sob story.

[Muzh]

I wouldn't say OCD.  I would say a good chance to learn all I can about the scams out there straight from the horses mouth which will help avoid them in the future.  Stick your head in the sand if you like, I want all the information I can get.  And if I can actually get one of them talking to me straight, that would be a wealth of information I would otherwise never have access to.

You are gaining nothing plus wasting your time.


Seriously.


P.S. The woman will think you are really dumb. Again, seriously. Not a jab at you.

[AC]

I wouldn't say OCD.  I would say a good chance to learn all I can about the scams out there straight from the horses mouth which will help avoid them in the future.  Stick your head in the sand if you like, I want all the information I can get.  And if I can actually get one of them talking to me straight, that would be a wealth of information I would otherwise never have access to.

You could spend the next 100 years trying to learn about all of the various scams and still not learn about all of them, or you could get busy contacting some legitimate women.

[BillyB]

I would say a good chance to learn all I can about the scams out there straight from the horses mouth which will help avoid them in the future.  Stick your head in the sand if you like, I want all the information I can get.  And if I can actually get one of them talking to me straight, that would be a wealth of information I would otherwise never have access to.

It's better to learn from somebody else's mistakes than your own. Plenty of stories on this forum for you to read. Many men have come before you telling their story of paying a price and time wasted so you don't have to.

[jone]

Ben Franklin again here.

The simple fact is that while our intrepid scam hunter is getting the bottom of his puzzle (he'd still be trying to figure 'her' out if we hadn't pushed him to contact her on VK) he is now looking for answers from the scammer.

What a dumb thing to do.

He could, of course, send pictures to the VK account and ask the real woman to approach the scammer.   Some women are actually offended if scammers are using their pictures.  As long as she is not getting a slice of the pie.

But, only the tenth time recommended here:

Your time is MUCH better spent on a legitimate (subscription type) dating site where the women are there for something other than a paycheck.

[northkape]

I agree with the majority here Bullrdr

You are wasting you time looking for scammers.
Your present approach of writing one woman, where you feel the need to verify every detail will probably never get you anywhere.
 
Get in touch with a large amount of women in the same geographical area, write mostly generic letters, then go to visit a filtered subset of these a few weeks / months later.
Scammers will take care of themselves, they are relatively few and far between, and will disappear quickly if you never talk about anything valuable.
Instead talk about your daily life and interests without naming valuables,, also about family, friends, sports, music, books, animals, nature and so on.
This way a scammer can never waste more than a little of your time, in writing or on ground, when you come visiting.
And you are using the majority of your resources with real serious women.

[2tallbill]

   I have a question for anyone that has experience (good or bad) with the "Pro-Daters".  Can you give me any tips on their M.O.?  I know this obviously has to be something of a long con since they are trying to get you over there. 

I realize that you are past considering her a prodater. I am posting this for the lurkers
and newbies who read this.

The pro-dater usually isn't a long con. They are usually very beautiful and a couple to
several notches higher on the beauty scale than the guy is. The prodater will want to
make arrangements with you so that they can get a commission. Your apartment, the
taxi rides, and a translator are usually involved.

If you make your own arrangements (always arrange for your own translator).
If you get your own apartment and buy food at the local grocery and then cook it,
you take many of the arrows out of the proshopper's quivers.

Next is restaurants and shopping directly, which all you have to do is say no or
choose the restaurant or cafe yourself.

A proshopper only works for the gullible, insecure and starry eyed men who think
they must keep the wallet popping in order to keep the girl interested.

[2tallbill]

I wouldn't say OCD.  I would say a good chance to learn all I can about the scams out there straight from the horses mouth which will help avoid them in the future.  Stick your head in the sand if you like, I want all the information I can get.  And if I can actually get one of them talking to me straight, that would be a wealth of information I would otherwise never have access to.

Let me give you the best scam avoidance advice. Search for a woman within ten years of
your age from anywhere except a pay by the letter site. Next get her on the phone and
then get her on Skype. Talk to her every day on the phone and skype and guess what?
You've eliminated 99% of all the scams.

Scams is a numbers game. They must churn through a lot of men to hook one into a scam.
They won't want to be on the phone with you and certainly not Skype. However a serious
girl will want to talk to you on the phone and see you on Skype.

Scammy girl = excuses 
Her cell phone broke, she lives in an area without internet. It's too expensive. She
doesn't have a phone* her dog ate her homework and blah, blah, blah.

Good Girl = makes it work
She will find a way to talk to you. She will hold a coat hanger out the window with her
toes with a wire attached to it to boost her cell phone reception when you call. She won't
have excuses she will have solutions.

How to screw everything up with a good girl
Accuse her of being a scammy girl. She will probably dump you on the spot. So don't
do it. Instead talk to her frequently on the phone and skype talk about her hopes her
dreams and her aspirations. Tell her about yours, ask her questions and listen carefully
to the answers
 
The closer the girl allows you to get to her the less likely she is of being a scammy
girl*

Udachi!


Bill


*note I started this thread telling you not to find a girl on a pay by the letter or pay
to chat site. A scammy girl will talk to you endlessly on a pay to chat site, but not
on skype or her own phone.

[TheBullRDR]

2tallBill,
    That is good advice and a good post.  Thanks.


Jone

Do you mean a site like Elena's Models?  That's a subscription site.  Which is exactly where I met this one.  Which I have already said. 

Northkape
  Thanks for the advice.  That is basically what I did in the first round.  Spoke to many and slowly whittled them down. oops. 

[TheBullRDR]

What time am I wasting?  Sending maybe one or two emails?  My time isn't so precious that I can't spend 5 minutes in order to get a little info. 

I may not be able to learn every variation on every type of scam.  But information gained from one can often be applied to another.  Therefore, any information gained is useful.  I fail to see why several of you out there would be against trying to learn another angle on scams.  Why would you actively encourage someone not to learn all they could?  Why encourage someone to turn a blind eye to this and simply rush off and try again?  Think about it.

As far as some scammer in an agency on the other side of the planet thinking I'm stupid, I'm pretty sure I wont lose any sleep over that. 

For those that are actually interested in this little tale of mine, here's an update. 
   The real girl, with whom I am not in contact through VK, is pretty pissed off about this whole mess and is doing what she can to track down where that phone number originated.  I don't know if this is possible in Belarus, but I'm giving her all the info I have on the scam.   She sends me updates about what she's found out so if you want that info, I'll be happy to share it when it's available.  I think this is pretty fun. 

[mendeleyev]

Sorry this one turned out bad, but there are lots more good ladies than bad, so hope your next attempt goes better.

[TheBullRDR]

No problem Mendeleyev.  Nothing goes perfect the first run through.  We live and learn.  Didn't really cost me anything but some time so no big deal. 

[BillyB]

What time am I wasting?  Sending maybe one or two emails?  My time isn't so precious that I can't spend 5 minutes in order to get a little info. 

Can you type 100 emails at the same time? If not, you're limited in what you can do like the rest of us so time is precious. For every one or two emails you send to the wrong woman, you could have sent one or two emails to the right woman. For every 5 minutes you waste with the wrong woman, you lose 5 minutes that you could've spent with the right woman. Based on what you said she wrote you, she is playing you. Now that you've established that, time to move on.

[Miquel Westano]

Good Girl = makes it work
She will find a way to talk to you. She will hold a coat hanger out the window with her
toes with a wire attached to it to boost her cell phone reception when you call. She won't
have excuses she will have solutions.



I love that.  It makes perfect sense too.

[jone]

A Bad Girl:

Works even harder.

 

[Noch1]

I spent 20 minutes reading this thread.
A waste of time, as you won't take advice,
bound and determined to be right.
If anything you wrote in the first few posts is correct,
why would you waste 5 minutes more with this girl?
You will never learn every scam, they invent them daily.
Listen to some of the advice of the long time posters, do some reading.
Maybe you will get somewhere. But if you are going to spend months
to get to one phone call, I doubt it. Months = plane ride.

[Ade]

Drop her! Drop her now and restrict your searches to non-dictatorial nations. That eliminates Belarus, Muscovy, and the 'Stans. It's difficult enough to find and date a woman in eastern Europe/FSU without having to worry about being governmentally harassed every step of the way. I have had two lifetime memorial relationships with EEW/FSUW in the last nine years, the first Bulgarian, the second (my present fiancee) Ukrainian. You would have to be extremely desperate to search for a partner in the reestablished semi-Soviet tyranny of the Muscovite-dominated Eurasian Economic Union.

Really? LOL

Now, if you'd said it would be wise to avoid war torn countries I'd have to agree.

[msmobyone]

I don't think any governments of the FSU now harass citizens who marry foreigners.

'Harass' might be a strong word, but family members working in govt. can - increasingly -  find their close relation's marriages to a westerner can mean an investigation or efFect promotion.

This is the new paranoia - for so long this was unimportant.

[2tallbill]

A Bad Girl:

Works even harder.

 

Every mans dream is to find a girl that he admires for her virtues
during the day  but loves her naughtiness at night   

[ML]

Every mans dream is to find a girl that he admires for her virtues
during the day  but loves her naughtiness at night   

I always liked what Mae West had to say about this.

[LAman]

Well we have conformation.  I just got a message back from the real woman on VK.  She's never heard of me and has no idea about any of this.  So yep, some sort of scam. 
   Now I will try and get the actual scammer to tell me what the end goal was.  It's a long shot, but I have heard stories about them eventually cracking and coming clean.  Might as well give it a shot.  I may learn something.

What exactly is the scam????? Where has this 'money' exchanged hands???? You are talking scammer here!!!

There is no scam talking to a 'virtual girl'!!!!