What does Putin want?

[The Natural]

This is the best analysis I've read on the situation in Ukraine and the role the different players have in that.


http://www.thefallingdarkness.com/2015/04/28/what-does-putin-want-a-major-analysis-by-rostislav-ishchenko-must-read/

Article in Russian, scroll down to the beginning of the actual article and click the link.

[Boethius]

He is absolutely wrong in his view that Americans run Kyiv.  That is a Russian narrative unfounded in fact.

[Boethius]

The problem in Russia, Ukraine, and most of the rest of the post Soviet republics has zero to do with the West, and everything to do with the fact that the same killers, snitches, and idiots who ruled the USSR rule continue to rule these post Soviet societies.  All of these individuals, the "vanguard exercising the leading role in the ideological movement of the masses" changed from committed communists to capitalists, unrestrained by the rule of law, overnight.  My better half, a victim of them his entire life, laughs because he says their "true faces have been exposed".  They were pigs then, and they are pigs now.
 
If we look at how the Russians have tried to build a state, what do we see?  Leaders who have failed in most respects.  A wealthy elite, untouchable unless the state decides to take one of them them down, owns much of the production.  Workers are not paid for months in some regions.  A healthcare system near complete collapse, and a life expectancy of 70 years.  If one knows history, one can see that the Russian government has been combing through the archives, trying to find a solution that worked in past, with little success.  Because though human nature has not changed, the world is very different, and 19th century methods (such as invading sovereign territory) don't work in the 21st century.
 
A number of years ago, on the advice of a diaspora Russian (one of those "bourgeouis nationalists" the current Russian leadership denounced and killed en masse) from Paris, a respected scholar, told the Russian leadership it needed to build a sense of unity, of nation if it were to survive.   They listened to him, and a propaganda campaign began.  It has taken perverse extremes in the past year, not too far from the ultranationalist views espoused in Nazi Germany, rather than following a normal path.  This doesn't surprise me, to be honest, given the history of most of the country, where 4 in 10 individuals at any time were informing on the other 6, and where all national sentiment was brutally suppresses.   And, that type of nationalist sentiment, rather than nation building, is primitive and requires an outside enemy.  That is what this is all about.  All the rest, about US hegemony, blah, blah, blah, is cr@p.
 
WRT Ukraine, paragraph 1 applies, on steroids.  Ukraine has been even worse served by its oligarchs and elites than has Russia. 

[Boethius]

P.S. - Any so called "analyst" who uses the term "junta" to describe the Kyiv leadership and calls it a "Nazi state" is already a stooge, and his opinion on anything having to do with Ukraine should be discarded.  (I post this knowing he is a Ukrainian national, resident in Kyiv.  I have little doubt he was a Komsomol member, and probably a party candidate back in the day, who buried his party ticket right after the coup.)

[The Natural]

Well Bo, I didn't expect you to accept this analysis as you're deeply attracted to the coup and it's different players. But I'm sure there's a couple here who will find it very informing, provided they read it.

The author might be advised to leave Kiev as opponents of the junta and neo-nazis are frequently found dead or suicided!

[Boethius]

No, I am not deeply attracted to the coup.  But I  can't, and won't, accept a narrative which is false, particulary one which is rooted in a deeply entrenched and false anti Americanism, whacko conspiracy theories, and Russian talking points.
 
The current leadership in Kyiv is not very different from the leadership in 2014, 2009, 2004, 1999, 1994, or 1989.   Anyone who has followed Ukrainian politics (almost no one who posts here, I suspect, other than me) for any length of time knows this.  Yet somehow, these leaders were never, in the past "nazis".
 
The difference between Yanukovych and all other post collapse Ukrainian leaders is that he turned the country into a criminal enterprise completely.  The others were happy just to steal certain segments.
 
The difference between the post Soviet leadership and Soviet leadership in Ukraine is that, in the latter case, they were restrained by Moscow.

[Изумруд]

Well Bo, I didn't expect you to accept this analysis as you're deeply attracted to the coup and it's different players. But I'm sure there's a couple here who will find it very informing, provided they read it.

The author might be advised to leave Kiev as opponents of the junta and neo-nazis are frequently found dead or suicided!

Natural, you're still repeating this same mantra about neo-Nazis in Ukraine.  I've already pointed out to you Pavel Gubarev's past which you ignored; maybe it's time to see with your own eyes just how many neo-nazis there are in Russia:

[The Natural]

I can't view any video on this computer. The point is not that there are nazis, of which there are in all western countries as well as in Russia. The point is that they are actively used by the puppet Kiev regime and indirectly supported by western countries. They are not used or supported in Russia.

[Boethius]

The regime in Kyiv is not a "puppet" regime.  It was elected by a majority of Ukrainians, other than in Donbas.  In fact, the removal of Crimea and Donbas ensures this type of government in Ukraine in the future, because the Party of Regions won only because of those two regions.  Therefore, your description in this regard is patently absurd.
 
There are nazis in some of the independent battalions fighting in Ukraine, but they receive no government funding.  So, your view in this regard is misguided as well.  Russian neo nazis, OTOH, do, in fact, have a voice in the Duma, and several have the ear of the Kremlin.

[Doll]

He is absolutely wrong in his view that Americans run Kyiv.  That is a Russian narrative unfounded in fact.

Boe, it is not even funny to read your posts- the USA openly admitted it (Obama himself on CNN)

[Ed S.]

Boe, it is not even funny to read your posts- the USA openly admitted it (Obama himself on CNN)

I personally can't believe anyone takes him seriously. The guy is a complete failure in foreign policy. His only real claim was killing Bin Laden, an event he rejected twice prior and in reality his Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta authorized under his name. IMO he's claiming credit for something he didn't do.  Washington is being run by a bunch of incompetent crooks these days, at least before they were competent.

[AC]

I personally can't believe anyone takes him seriously. The guy is a complete failure in foreign policy. His only real claim was killing Bin Laden, an event he rejected twice prior and in reality his Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta authorized under his name. IMO he's claiming credit for something he didn't do.  Washington is being run by a bunch of incompetent crooks these days, at least before they were competent.

Exactly.

[Boethius]

Boe, it is not even funny to read your posts- the USA openly admitted it (Obama himself on CNN)

Please provide a link to where the US admitted this.  What I read on CNN was that after Yanukovych left office, the US stepped in to aid Ukraine in forming an interim government.  The US didn't elect Poroshenko.  The US didn't elect Yatseniuk (who, at the time, was already sitting in the Rada).  The US did not form the Rada, which still consisted of Party of Region members.  The narrative Russian media presents is that they were installed, but that is an insult to millions of Ukrainians.

[Doll]

I personally can't believe anyone takes him seriously. 

It does not matter- I mean his personality. Obama MANY TIMES spoke on behalf of the country (Government). It is officially approved by the  US Congress- I mean supplying lethal weapons AND troops on Ukrainian land.
I guess you're ok with American soldiers dying there?
You pay for it BTW

[Boethius]

Please provide a link where American troops are in a position where they will die on Ukrainian land.  AFAIK, the U.S. army has sent advisors to provide training to the Ukrainian army, as have the British and Canadians.
 
You're still a Russian citizen.  Given Russia's per capita GDP is less than half of that of the United States, how do you feel about Russian tax dollars going to support a bunch of khokhol terrorists? 

[jone]

It does not matter- I mean his personality. Obama MANY TIMES spoke on behalf of the country (Government). It is officially approved by the us US Congress- I mean supplying lethal weapons AND troops on Ukrainian land.
I guess you're ok with American soldiers dying there?
You pay for it BTW

The US Congress has authorized the President to supply lethal weapons to Ukraine at his discretion.  So far, he has elected not to provide such weapons.  There is no precedent to provide front-line troops.  A number of NATO countries have sent training officers to work with the UA chain of command to provide a more competent handling of the Ukrainian troops.  Among those are some USA officers. 

I would be surprised if any US troops would end up dead in UA.  Of course I cannot say the same for Russian participation.  Too many Russian soldiers have come home in caskets to believe that Russians are not fighting as part of an organized aggression in UA.

[AkMike]

Boe, it is not even funny to read your posts- the USA openly admitted it (Obama himself on CNN)

PROVE IT! Show a link to this unfounded statement.

[Ed S.]

It does not matter- I mean his personality. Obama MANY TIMES spoke on behalf of the country (Government). It is officially approved by the us US Congress- I mean supplying lethal weapons AND troops on Ukrainian land.
I guess you're ok with American soldiers dying there?
You pay for it BTW

There's lots of things I've paid for via taxes I don't like. Obama's Libyan adventure was one for example, which ended up destabilizing the country and region even more and helped jihadists more than anything else. Unfortunately, I'm not a government official, so tax evasion for me means jail. Congress doesn't seem to want to have its constitutional authority, and keeps abdicating to the presidency. Personally, I think the conflict was foolish and should have never started. I find what's happening in the Middle East a far greater threat, so no I'm not thrilled about the (albeit unlikely) possibility of US forces starting WWIII with Russia. However, this is the same administration who couldn't even enforce a "red line" on a tinpot Arab dictator, so I doubt they are capable of such brinkmanship with Putin.

[Muzh]

It does not matter- I mean his personality. Obama MANY TIMES spoke on behalf of the country (Government). It is officially approved by the us US Congress- I mean supplying lethal weapons AND troops on Ukrainian land.
I guess you're ok with American soldiers dying there?
You pay for it BTW

BRAINS, I WANT BRAINS!!!!!

[Muzh]

There's lots of things I've paid for via taxes I don't like. Obama's Libyan adventure was one for example, which ended up destabilizing the country and region even more and helped jihadists more than anything else.

BUT, did you like W's Iraqi occupation? I'm positive you are convince THAT was not destabilizing, not to mention the precursor to all this ISIS madness.

[Ed S.]

BUT, did you like W's Iraqi occupation? I'm positive you are convince THAT was not destabilizing, not to mention the precursor to all this ISIS madness.

Honestly, no. For a group of people who seemed to want to avoid an insurgency like Vietnam (Rumsfeld), they did everything the same way. If they actually bothered to look at what had to be done in 2003 prior to 2006, then maybe. Quite frankly, I don't think the country has the spirit to handle such an occupation anymore.

[The Natural]

BRAINS, I WANT BRAINS!!!!!

Your girlfriend needs to see a dentist 

[Muzh]

Your girlfriend needs to see a dentist 

That's because she refused vaccinations and fluoride in the water. 

[The Natural]

That's because she refused vaccinations and fluoride in the water. 

Haha, good one 

[Doll]

Please provide a link where American troops are in a position where they will die on Ukrainian land.  AFAIK, the U.S. army has sent advisors to provide training to the Ukrainian army, as have the British and Canadians.
 
You're still a Russian citizen.  Given Russia's per capita GDP is less than half of that of the United States, how do you feel about Russian tax dollars going to support a bunch of khokhol terrorists?

I am an American citizen