Influence Your Luck

[Maxx2]

KenC my problems with Captmonk (It's short for Captain Monkey because he thinks he look like one (old post of his)) is your fault. I was repremanded by you for posting about anything that regarded success and how to do it. You said I should stick with the dark stuff, divorce and so on.

Quotes from you:

Maxx,
So, how's your "rush into happiness plan" going so far?
KenC

I am sure that your sage advice on how to select a good Russian woman is much better than mine. After all, I have only been married for 4 1/2 years and nary a protection order in sight. LOL. I'll make you a deal, Maxx, I won't give "divorcing a Russian woman" advice, if you don't give "finding a good Russian woman" advice.
KenC

So thinking it over I decided you may have an idea there. I'll stick with the dark subjects and avoid the happy ones. But Ken could you do me a favor. Get that Monkey off my back. Explain him our deal OK?

Maxx

[Turboguy]

Doug,
I agree with the essence of your post, but I question a guy's ability to detect the quality of a person, character, pureness of a soul or compatibility issues without a common language. These are the areas that are Majority difficult to judge even with a common language. How in the world can you make a competent decision without a common language? I mean really, now, a lot of American marriages breakup over misreading these traits. And they have the same language and culture. Unless you rely on luck, I don't see how it is possible. Please don't tell me intuition either.
KenC

Personally I think language is the least useful thing to determining a persons character and may actually be detrimental.    I think observation is a much better way.   People tend to tell you what they think you want to hear.  That is my observation that comes in a big part from conducting perhaps 1000 intereview to hire people.

If I think back to a gal I really liked who I met in Kiev, her English was great.  There was not a single thing that impressed me that she said, other than the fact she like me a lot.  The thing that really impressed me was that as we walked around the streets of Kiev, everytime we passed a babushka with a tin cup in the entrances to the undergrounds she would reach into her pocket and pull out a little change.  I thought to myself, this is a good girl that really cares about people.

With my former fiancee, one of the things that really impressed me was one night we went back to my apartment in a taxi who waited for her.  I asked how much she needed for the taxi.  She said she did not know.  I handed her 500 roubles.  She handed it back to me and said it was too much, to give her 200.  I thought this is an honest girl.   She was about money.  I can't think of anything either gal said that impressed me as much as things I observed.

Hypothetically, lets say you have a guy who looks like a young Robert Redford, is CEO of a major corp, about her age with a big income and he is out with a gal and she thinks she has the catch of a lifetime.  All of a sudden he says he always wanted 10 kids.  The gal didn't really want any.  She will be going on for hours about how she loves kids I assure you.   Given the right potential partner a city lover will turn into a country lover, a dog hater will turn into a dog lover.  A country and western fanatic will learn to hate the stuff, you name it.  

I am not trying to say common language is a bad thing, just that observation is a better way to determine character.  

[KenC]

Personally I think language is the least useful thing to determining a persons character and may actually be detrimental.

Sorry Turbo,
But this has to be the dumbest statement you have ever made IMO.
KenC

[Jumper]

KenC-
You know i'm all about dating RW with english skills! ..lol

but i can kind of see where Turbos coming from?
 after all a con artist uses the *gift of gab* to get to his victims?

but overall in the context of a woman you plan to marry,
hopefully you use both observation and communication to determine her character.

the examples you give turbo wouldnt be held up easily over a lenght of time, just initial meetings?

Also Turbo,
 if you have to have terp telling you what your RW said,
 there is always the possibilty that the TERP is smoothing things over that she knows would raise a flag for you,

been there done that,, and knew enough Russian to know the terp was not
relaying what was said.
part of why i have a bad taste in my mouyth for dating RW with limited english skills.
because you then need to determine the character of your RW AND your interpreter..
and in ther FSU..well...
nevermind..
lol

[PeeWee]

Sorry Turbo,
But this has to be the dumbest statement you have ever made IMO.
KenC

So what  you are saying, Ken, is that Helen Keller or anyone like her could have no character? If you could not communicate in sign then she, in your opinion, would have no character?

Peewee

[Turboguy]

KenC, search a bit. I must have made dumber one sometime or another.

AJ, I have to say I have had as bad a luck as you are talking about with a terp.  I think it is hard to really communicate when you are using one and you really don't know who you are talking to or if you are getting the same information that comes from the gal.

I am not saying that communications are not important I am just saying that a lot of the thing you sense about someone come from their actions not their words.  I also think when someone wants something they do tend to tell people what they think they want to hear.  Perhaps it was dumb but there was a kernal of truth in there.

[Turboguy]

AJ,  They could keep up the lies for a while, perhaps till after the alter.  I think if you have good overvation skills you could figure it out though.  For example in the case of the hypothetical Robert Redford look alike that wanted a big family.  If every time she was around kids she was cooing all over them you would tend to belive her but if every time she was around kids she was complaning about the noise and distraction you could figure out they were lying to you.

I have seen times that people said or did not say what I wanted to hear and it swayed me but I have seen more times I have seen them do things that swayed me one way or the other.   Isn't showing affection something that makes us think they are "into us" and isn't that more actions than words.   If a gal said she thought you were her dreams come true but showed no phyiscal signs of it a case where the actions would say one thing and the words another.

[KenC]

KenC, search a bit. I must have made dumber one sometime or another.

AJ, I have to say I have had as bad a luck as you are talking about with a terp.  I think it is hard to really communicate when you are using one and you really don't know who you are talking to or if you are getting the same information that comes from the gal.

I am not saying that communications are not important I am just saying that a lot of the thing you sense about someone come from their actions not their words.  I also think when someone wants something they do tend to tell people what they think they want to hear.  Perhaps it was dumb but there was a kernal of truth in there.

Turbo,
LOL! I guess I could search and find something else. Seriously though, your previous statement:
"Personally I think language is the least useful thing to determining a persons character and may actually be detrimental".
is in direct contridiction with what you posted here. "Least useful and detrimental" is far from being "important."
KenC

[KenC]

So what  you are saying, Ken, is that Helen Keller or anyone like her could have no character? If you could not communicate in sign then she, in your opinion, would have no character?

Peewee

Peewee,
Step away from the crack pipe now!

No, That is not even close to what I said. My statement you quoted is directed at Turbo saying that a common language is "the least important thing" or even "detrimental" in determining character. And yes, poor Helen would be very difficult to judge.
KenC

[Jumper]

peewee..
you dont think thats a great example do you?

A deaf/mute may indeed have a great character,
but it certainly isnt beyond anyones imagination ,
that it might be a little more difficult ,and time consuming to determine it,.
and most men get in trouble over having too little time in this venture anyway??

in your own culture and language you can likely tell a snake oil salesman pretty much instantly,
by yes indeed his mannerisms , behavior,
 and by what he says,
 and very importantly, HOW he says it?

now meet a Russian snake oil salesman speaking thru an interpreter.
an interpreter of unknown character as well.
in a culture that you dont know the mannerisms or behavioirs considered normal.
 
you cannot even come close to grasping "how" things were said,,
by the interpreters translations.
you are lucky to have an interpreter that can do the translation always in the correct lexis or vein.

The best most guys going over in that situation can hope for is that the 'terp doesnt have an agenda, and translates accurately.

so interaction filled possibly with inaccurate words (many do not translate well) with a much lower level grasp of the important *how* they were relayed. Simply wonderful for establishing a solid foundation to a relationship?


Heres a better  example regarding RW.

You know who clues a lot of guys in ,
 on what the girl is really up too,whatr shes like,  or what shes thinking??

the interpreter.
its very common, almost anyone with any experince in this biz knows it.

now WHY would she ever need to do that?
really why?
afterall -
powers of observation,intuition,
 the girls behavior is right in front of you,
 and the translated words should be plenty of info right?

no, it's often not enough.

the terp knowing the language fluently ,
slang, idioms and culture-
 can read the girl 500 times faster than most foriegn men ever will.
its the reality.

if language wasnt important ,
a 'terps simple translation of the words ,
would be enough.
ask men how often that is the case in the real world.

Most guys rely very heavily on thier interpreters guidence.
at least initially.
and they consider them invaluable.

ask yourself why would they do that? on something so personal and important..
(because they have to)

and then ask your self is that a good thing ?

To me the answer is clear, it is NOT a good thing , and it is not favorable condition to be in..
it is simply tolerated.

by the RW as well as the men.

my wife was burned by an interpreter , and vowed she would become fluent before meeting any foreign men again.
(to my fortune)

but its just an example to show that it happens to both sides,
and both sides of this generally recognize that not having a common language is a obstical to overcome.
its no fun having a third wheel.
its no fun wondering the all important "how" something was said.
its no fun trying to articulate something important ,and personal  thru
a third party.

I do agree a persons actions speak volumes,
a LOT can be gleaned without speaking a single word.


but it would be very interesting to hear a typically pragmatic RW's take on this whole debate. i can sure tell you that,,LOL

[Turboguy]

AJ, I have to agree with what you are saying.  There is a good and bad side to terps but the good terps have saved my hide a time or two.

Ken, My point was not that a common language is not useful or even essential in building a relationship.  My point was that there are other ways to judge character that may tell you a lot more than words. 

I just think if you have someone you really like and through the interpreter and her actions you judge her to be a good gal that you are intersted in, lack of language is not a problem if she is willing to learn English. 

[Michelangelo]

KenC,

I think you bring your own definitions to words. That’s fine, as long as we are comparing apples to apples.

Let’s start over. Yes, intuition is very important. And yes, some people are more intuitive than others. 

Intuition is the ability to understand internally, without concious reasoning, according to the dictiionary.

Intuition can help you make good choices and decisions. But as I shared before, we can ignore what our intuition tells us.

Intuition has NOTHING to do with the other person—the girl—and what her character is.  She is what she is.  Intuition can help you know that in advance, but only time with her can confirm it.

I disagree with your statement that guys with “intuition are the ones that crash and burn.”  I’d say the opposite is true.  Intuition deters you to better choices; intuition is like an advance warning or knowledge.

Don’t confuse intuitnon with chemistry.  Chemistry is instant attraction.  Intuition is the “hunch” you have about the girl and what she will be like.

[Jumper]

Turbo said

I just think if you have someone you really like and through the interpreter and her actions you judge her to be a good gal that you are intersted in, lack of language is not a problem if she is willing to learn English.

Turbo,
as much as my preference is to date someone with a common language..or at least a good grasp of it , so we can easily talk on the phone.. 

a fully agree with you if you find a good person,
that you can tell this by many actions and behaviors over time.
and the language issue is not something that cant be overcome!
it has been done by countless couples.

Brads *influencing your luck* , was  just that. a way to increase your odds of success.
will sharing a common language  do that?
  I think if you initially share a common language it gives you a better chance of reading each other accurately, and having a better foundation to decide if you're compatable.
(this isnt all just about seeing scams folks,or good or bad charater ,
 its about seeing if you two are truly compatable? and isnt that were the language thing is a fairly big help? she needs to see and understand you as well as you really seeing and understanding her?!)

is it nessassary? no.
one million examples exist to prove its not.
 
 

[PeeWee]

Peewee,
Step away from the crack pipe now!

No, That is not even close to what I said. My statement you quoted is directed at Turbo saying that a common language is "the least important thing" or even "detrimental" in determining character. And yes, poor Helen would be very difficult to judge.
KenC

I may have misunderstood. What I understood was that Turbo said that for two people to have a common language is not an important factor, or an a valuable aid, in assisting one to judge another's character.

If I am wrong then Helen would not be a good example. My point was that I, and many others, would agree, without even talking to Hellen that her character was beyond reproach.

Another example. Let's say that I had a friend of four years. A lady who Turbo has never met or spoken to. I tell Turbo everything I know about her character. If I was honest and accurate in my description of her character, and if he believed what I said was true, then he would be correct in saying that, since they have no common langage, yet, that he will still know alot about her character based on what I have told him. He can then begin his relationship with her already knowing a lot about her character.   That is what I ment.

Peewee

[KenC]

Michelangelo,
Ever hear of anyone who thought they didn't have good intuition? Me either. What I do hear is guys saying , "but it is different with us" or that they "just know" she is the real deal. Guys resort to their intuitive powers when their position cannot be explained through logic and reasoning.
KenC

[PeeWee]

Michelangelo,
Ever hear of anyone who thought they didn't have good intuition? Me either. What I do hear is guys saying , "but it is different with us" or that they "just know" she is the real deal. Guys resort to their intuitive powers when their position cannot be explained through logic and reasoning.
KenC

Women are intuitive, or at least they think they are. Men are implusive. Show me an intuitive man and I'll show you a metro-sexual, to be politically correct, but you know what I mean.

Peewee

[Michelangelo]

Michelangelo,
Ever hear of anyone who thought they didn't have good intuition? Me either. What I do hear is guys saying , "but it is different with us" or that they "just know" she is the real deal. Guys resort to their intuitive powers when their position cannot be explained through logic and reasoning.
KenC

That's crazy, Ken.  Read the dictionary meaning of intuition. You doubt this?  Or even its existence?

Great CEOs have it.  Great teachers have it. 

I'm NOT saying intuition is a defense for picking a bad girl or defending such a choice.  You are.  It's not.

In fact, intuition is a great assest for NOT PICKING the girl.

[KenC]

Michelangelo,
 I don't doubt the existence of intuition. I do doubt that everyone has it or even a similar amount of it. Intuition is sometimes used as a cop out for the unexplainable actions of a few clueless individuals. I won't use a recent example so as to start yet another war here, but there was a guy named Wayne on the other board. He went on for pages about how after one trip to meet his fiancee his intuitive powers were not to be denied. He justified his quick decisions with his intuition. He reasoned that as he was successful in his own business that he had the innate ability to make quick and correct decisions. I think his fiancee made to the 45 day mark before he sent her back.

My point is, is that everyone thinks they have this ability and many do not. Hell, I have been in business for myself for about 30 years now and mostly in areas where my ability to read people is most important to my success. But I still took my time to verify that my intuition regarding my now wife was correct. It was just too important to allow for any errors. Especially errors in quick judgements. What's everyones rush any way? Take your time. Enjoy the journey and get it right.
KenC

[catzenmouse]

Take your time. Enjoy the journey and get it right.

 This is one of the biggest mistakes that is made in this quest. It is too easy for a guy to window shop and pick the cutest puppy he finds and think that everything is going to be perfect. If you make a mistake like this in many (if not most) cases it will cause you a lot of suffering and a lot of dollars to set it right again.

Ken

[Turboguy]

Well, let me say this another way.  How many times have you heard someone say they can tell in 4 minutes if a girl MAY be right for them.  ( I emphasized may because I want to be clear that I am not talking final judgements)  I think most of us have said this or heard it a lot.  Now tell me, is that intuition or communication?  

I don't disagree that intuition may not be a gift everyone has but we all have some of it.  I think mine is pretty good.  I spent the first half of my business life in sales and if I was good, that was what made me good.  I could sense what was concerning someone and deal with their objections or hesitations.  I was never that persuasive or much of a talker.  I just could read people well. Other than that I have conducted perhaps 1000 interviews to hire someone.  If you go by what people say or what they put on the resume you are going to get a lot of the wrong people.  You never get it 100% right just like every gal we think might be right for us is not always what works out.

To build a relationship you must have communication.  To decide who MIGHT be right for you it is not as necessary.   Personally I have a hard time developing rapport with someone I can not communicate with.  Language is just an obstacle.  If two people want to be together it can be overcome if they are willing to work at it and it won't stop them.

[Michelangelo]

Michelangelo,
 I don't doubt the existence of intuition....  Hell, I have been in business for myself for about 30 years now and mostly in areas where my ability to read people is most important to my success.
KenC

Good--just wanted to make sure that everyone understands that intuition is real and is a good thing.

In my years as a CEO, i hired about 50 managers.  I used resumes PLUS my gut, my intuition, about who to hire.   I only bombed on 3 hires.

But back to girls....

People should not let desires and wishes override intuitive insights.  

I think we are actully saying the same thing....

[PeeWee]

Good--just wanted to make sure that everyone understands that intuition is real and is a good thing.

In my years as a CEO, i hired about 50 managers.  I used resumes PLUS my gut, my intuition, about who to hire.   I only bombed on 3 hires.

But back to girls....

People should not let desires and wishes override intuitive insights.  

I think we are actully saying the same thing....

Would you say that intuition and instinct is one and the same. I had for a time thought that intuition was based on a hunch, suspecion, or a psyhic feeling. Where as instict was logic based. I might be wrong here but it seemed to me that intuition was strong in females than it was males. Women rely on intuition and men rely on logic.

Peewee

[KenC]

Turbo,
If what you wrote is true:
"I don't disagree that intuition may not be a gift everyone has but we all have some of it.  I think mine is pretty good".
What happened with Luda? Did you misread her? Or did you go against your intuition?
KenC

[Turboguy]

Lets just say I went against what my intuition was telling me.  My first visit I saw only the good and she showed me only the good.  My second trip I got a good glimpse of the future but I was hooked enough by the good I saw in her that I went against my better judgement. 

Luda's tought process was like a mind floating in the air.  One day it would blow this way and the next it would blow the other.  She was just a lost scared little girl with no direction and afraid of  making a mistake.  Whatever route she chose was going to be a mistake in her mind and it scared her.

When her mind was going the way I hoped she could be the most wonderful person to be around I ever met.  She could be funny and interesting and romantic and affectionate and when it was going the other way she was about the hardest person to be around you could ever want.

Truthfully I will be surprised if she ever ends up leading a normal happily married life.  I will never know one way or the other though anyway.

[Wayne]

Turboguy,

I was married to an AW for 17 years who is bi-polar.  What you describe about Luda in your last post seems to me that she might also be bi-polar.  I guess you never got to find out.  I can tell you that living with a woman with this condition is like living in HELL!  You can never depend on her for anything!  Also, how would you like if a woman went on a terrible tirade over absolutely nothing--then five minutes later--acted like a completely different person and had no reccolection of the event?  I just wish I had all the money that I spent on Psychiatrists, Psycholigists, drugs, marriage couslers, and so on.  Life is just to short to put up with something like that.