"The Fat Woman Is So Sexy and Beautiful"

[ML]

I don't appreciate being called a liar.  It is not conducive to any form of debate.  So, I will no longer respond to anything you post.

I think he unintentionally left out the  word 'no.'

[Boethius]

For sure, I don't agree with the fashion industry in terms of what is attractive all the time. 

However my point remains, and still stands:  as a man, I don't get to proclaim for my own benefit, to everyone that I must be found handsome, or that I am handsome. 

Those women weren't telling anyone they must be found beautiful.

Women determine what is handsome in men ; and men determine what is seen as beautiful in women.

These are cultural constructs, and are not only highly subjective, but change over time.  In Mauritania, those women would have been viewed as highly desirable.


http://www.vice.com/en_ca/video/the-fat-farms-of-mauritania

[ML]

Yes, in some African tribes, the woman's butt must be huge or they have trouble finding a man.

Then, there was that trouble maker Rubens.

[LiveFromUkraine]

These are cultural constructs, and are not only highly subjective, but change over time.

Indeed they do...

[Slumba]

Yes, in some African tribes, the woman's butt must be huge or they have trouble finding a man.

Then, there was that trouble maker Rubens.

Yes, however it was well known among his contemporaries that Rubens was a chubby chaser - why else would the term "Rubenesque" have gained currency?

Isolated, backwards tribes aside, the waist/hip ratios and other ratios that indicate beauty are remarkably similar across the centuries and between major cultures.

If you don't believe me, search for "odalisque painting" on Google Images (and please, ignore the ones that have Conchita Wurst's face digitally added to the painting!). 

There is a reason that France and Italy, not nutty Flemish painters, have served as arbiters of beauty standards for 100s of years.

[Miquel Westano]

I don't appreciate being called a liar.  It is not conducive to any form of debate.  So, I will no longer respond to anything you post.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.  I fixed the sentence.  It should have read I have NO reason to call you a liar.  You should know by now that while I do not agree with you on most topics, I never insult or ridicule anyone.  Online feuds and catfights are not my style.  I accepted your story and I think the context of the rest of my thoughts on the overweight ball of energy bore that out.

[ML]

Sorry for the misunderstanding.  I fixed the sentence.  It should have read I have NO reason to call you a liar.

Hey . . . where is my thanks for having already caught this and published same here ?

[Miquel Westano]

Hey . . . where is my thanks for having already caught this and published same here ?

Thanks my friend. 

While I love debates, and often disagree with Bo, I respect her too much to ever call her a liar.  I would have thought she would have read the rest of the post and seen it was clearly an innocent mistake.  But thank you again for giving me the benefit of the doubt and realizing it was clearly an unintentional error. 

BTW, you are one of many on here I look forward to post from.  The insight and differing opinions on RWD are extremely valuable to any newbie starting the search.  They will save any prudent man or woman a vast amount of money and emotional stress.  Those that find, then ignore, this forum's resources and subsequently get burned have no one to blame but themselves. 

MW

[Miquel Westano]

Ha . . . anyone can do that.

The more relevant question is . . . how far does your gut hang out over the top of that 34 waist pants?

Is there a 'dick do' involved?

Lots of hillbillies here wear pants 2-3 sizes too small and have guts hanging over their belts.  Mine does not.  I don't have a chiseled six pack, but don't have mashed potato abs either.  I can look straight down and see anything I need to. 

Like I said, I am nothing special.  But, I am also nothing disappointing either.  I am just a regular guy.  But, I am miles thinner and healthier than these women.  With all the emphasis on health and childhood obesity these days, why would we post up images encouraging anyone to be content to be this fat? 

We have gotten so stupidly PC in this country we put hurt feelings over long term benefits.  We should be discouraging people from looking like this, not condoning it. 

[ML]

BTW, you are one of many on here I look forward to post from. 

Your check is in the mail.

[Larry1]

BTW, you are one of many on here I look forward to post from.

You are not alone in that. ML came in fourth in this poll asking which members' posts do you make it a point to read:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=16024.0

[LiveFromUkraine]

Yes, however it was well known among his contemporaries that Rubens was a chubby chaser - why else would the term "Rubenesque" have gained currency?

Isolated, backwards tribes aside, the waist/hip ratios and other ratios that indicate beauty are remarkably similar across the centuries and between major cultures.

If you don't believe me, search for "odalisque painting" on Google Images (and please, ignore the ones that have Conchita Wurst's face digitally added to the painting!). 

There is a reason that France and Italy, not nutty Flemish painters, have served as arbiters of beauty standards for 100s of years.

rubenesque

Applied to a woman who has similar proportions to those in paintings by the Flemish painter Peter Paul Ruben; attractively plump; a woman who is alluring or pretty but without the waif-like body or athletic build presently common in media.
"Our waitress is really hot, even if she has a few extra pounds on her, but it doesn't matter because I like my women rubenesque anyway."

Notice it doesn't mention obese. 


Doesn't fit your narrative and then all of those Flemish painters were chubby chasers and nutty.   Hilarious.




This depiction would also be considered fat these days. 

[BdHvA]

The artist who depicted best the full figured woman is the Colombian, F. Botero.

His artistic output reaches beyond female figures and at times is challenging.

[Boethius]

So do you agree with Slumba's assertion, BDHvA?


IIRC, Titian, da Vinci, Michelangelo, Rembrandt all had art with zaftig women.  Even Modigliani had a plump Venus. 

[Boethius]

We have gotten so stupidly PC in this country we put hurt feelings over long term benefits.  We should be discouraging people from looking like this, not condoning it.

Nobody is condoning it. 


Where I come from, it is impolite to comment on a person's weight, or height, or the size of their nose, etc.  It has nothing to do with political correctness, and everything to do with manners.

[Miquel Westano]

Nobody is condoning it. 


Where I come from, it is impolite to comment on a person's weight, or height, or the size of their nose, etc.  It has nothing to do with political correctness, and everything to do with manners.

I assume since you are responding to me, you saw my sleight to you was a typo and not on purpose. 

Since you are about manners, I thought you would at least acknowledge the fact I did not intentionally call you a liar and that I apologized for my error.  Whether I like your or not, or agree with you or not, I would never call you a liar.  I have no reason to and no benefit to gain from an act that stupid or rude.  If nothing else I do respect your commitment to defend your side and your willingness to engage on topic.

As to the manners comment.  The minute they post online with an in your face campaign, they invite all opinions positive and negative.  I think they are looking for attention and unhappy with themselves.  Maybe I am right, maybe not.  But that is what I think.  I also think promotion of acceptance of a body like that sends a terrible message to children in a country plagued with obesity.

[Muzh]

I am not real sure what that means?  Several on here have seen a pic of me. While I am no supermodel I don't look too bad for a 60 year old man.  I assure you I am not even remotely in these women's leagues of obesity.  I wear a 34 waist pant.  I doubt these ladies could get them around their upper thighs much less over their butts. 

As to my face?  Well that I don't know.  I would say I am a 5.  But who knows?  Maybe so, maybe not.  But if I put my face on the internet like that, I would realize someone would call me a 1 and that would be fine with me.  Hopefully you would be there to defend my honor.  But I doubt it.

So, you rate yourself by your looks. No wonder.

[Muzh]

I have no idea who he is or if he is happy with his body or not.  One of the most physically beautiful women I ever met was a constant self criticizer and was never happy with her body.  She could have been an SI cover girl.  She committed suicide in 1997.  She was young beautiful and a very kind girl, but she had never been happy with her looks.  So who the hell knows if this guy is happy or not?  What does it have to do with the fat women?  If they had bodies that rivaled his for fitness I would understand the question. 

Boy, you are full of contradictions.


No, wait a minute. I see, you were talking about a woman so that doesn't count, right? 

[Muzh]

Nobody is condoning it. 


Where I come from, it is impolite to comment on a person's weight, or height, or the size of their nose, etc.  It has nothing to do with political correctness, and everything to do with manners.

Yes, let's not talk about heights. 

[Miquel Westano]

So, you rate yourself by your looks. No wonder.

You really should buy a puppy or get a hobby or something.  You spend way too much time worrying about me. 

[I/O]

I'm just a shallow male - I don't do fat. Chunked up a bit with time or whatever post children, that's very 'nother thing but unnecessary fat, nope.

[Boethius]

Boy, you are full of contradictions.


No, wait a minute. I see, you were talking about a woman so that doesn't count, right? 

Exactly.  A woman with tattoos must have a mental deficiency and hate herself.  A man is not so burdened.


BTW, that man is David Beckham, in his prime, one of the best soccer players in the world.  As a professional athlete in a sport that demands the utmost in physical fitness, I am rather certain he is quite happy with his body, and his model like looks made him a favourite of Giorgio Armani

[BdHvA]

So do you agree with Slumba's assertion, BDHvA?

Our great Slumba makes so many assumptions I am not even sure which one you are referring to.

[Miquel Westano]

Exactly.  A woman with tattoos must have a mental deficiency and hate herself.  A man is not so burdened.


BTW, that man is David Beckham, in his prime, one of the best soccer players in the world.  As a professional athlete in a sport that demands the utmost in physical fitness, I am rather certain he is quite happy with his body, and his model like looks made him a favourite of Giorgio Armani

Oh Bo, I hate to see you slip down a notch or two in the desperation cycle.  I am used to it from some other less skilled critics, but from you I always hope for more.

Here is what I said: 

"In my untrained opinion, very few people happy with their looks resort to this level of body art." 

and

"I stand by my untrained opinion most heavily tatted people are not happy with their appearance and are attempting to draw attention away from their self perceived flaws."

See Bo, both of those refer to people, not just women. 

Since you love my observations, here is another one for you.  I find people who are losing in debates they can't win fairly, often resort to accusations, insinuations, implications and allegations when the truth just won't work.  Just for your future reference baiting doesn't really work very well with me.  I am a call it like I see it guy no matter what or who is involved. 

BTW, now I feel like you owe me an apology.  You clearly took my people comment and turned it into an accusation of misogyny by implying I was directing at women only.  Even though the wording was clear and included all people, you made an unfounded personally directed comment.

Since you pointed out you are so concerned with manners and feelings for others, I assume now that you know my feelings are hurt you will quickly apologize.  I will of course accept, but the formality will help me with closure.   

I acknowledged, corrected and apologized for my unintentional error.  I assume you are willing to do the same for an intentional attack on my character? 

BTW on the model guy.  I had no idea who he was.  I don't watch sports and don't look at clothing ads much.  But even you had to hedge by saying you were, "rather certain" he is happy with his body.  That may be so, but what does that have to do with those massively overweight women?  Do you actually think they are as happy to look like that as he is to look like he does?

[Boethius]

Our great Slumba makes so many assumptions I am not even sure which one you are referring to.

That Rubens was rather unique, in the art world, in portraying fat women -


http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=19929.msg411802#msg411802