Is it usual for Ukrainian Women to be inaffectionate when starting relationship?

[Bee Farmer]

Treadmilldude,
Do you still live in your mommy's basement?  When was the last time you had a real life date with a flesh and blood female?

From talking to many many FSU girls over the last 2 1/2 years through Skype, email, VK, whatsapp, etc...

Yet you have never made a trip. (Keyboard Romeo)

You claim 85% of Ukrainian girls are scammers, which is why you are now pursuing girls from Belorus.   (Any chance the Ukraine girls realized you were a Keyboard Romeo?  Why talk to a Keyboard Romeo if they aren't going to get paid to feed his fantasy?)

Have you told the Belorus girl you have been talking to FSU girls for 2.5 years, but never made a trip?  Think about how angry that girl is about her ex not being a real man - and you should expect to receive that same anger.  She will quickly see that you are all talk, and no action - not a real man.

You claim you're afraid of pursuing sex.  You want the girl to throw herself at you.  (Real men don't act this way.)

Recently, your Belorus girl had a boy that you were in love with.  Now, your Belorus girl has a daughter.  (Can't keep your stories straight?)

You gush with empty flattery in your posts.  You gush over other posters here, and suck up so bad you probably wear knee pads.  (And when someone is critical, you throw a girly hissy fit - again, not how a real man acts.  I know, now I probably have to go sit with jone in the corner.)  You gush over the FSU girls and their little kids.  This passive-aggressive narcissistic personality will make good women run for the hills.

You say you are 37 years old, never married and have no kids.  FSU women will be suspicious something is wrong with a guy approaching 40 who has never married and has no kids.

What value do you offer a girl?  Why would a girl want to marry you?  Because you have an American passport?  The better life she can have if you bring her to America? (And after she is here, why will she stay with you?) Ever stop to think about that?

It's time to grow a pair son.  2.5 years of talking to FSU girls, but never made a trip?  (Would you talk to local girls over the internet for 2.5 years without ever making a move to take them on a real date?)  FSU girls deserve to be treated better than that. 

[treadmilldude]

Deadbeat dad is a term that doesn't really exist in the FSU. Although he may not have paid one kopek for the child's upkeep the courts won't go after him for the money and he will retain all of his rights as a father unless he signs them away or the process was instituted for the court to legally take them away. Not paying support or not visiting the child doesn't mean anything in those courts.

The case I mention that I am familiar with, the woman had fake documents drawn up to initiate the process and had paid off a judge to make them legal which likely in all probability would have worked. Dude didn't want to risk it and then he got too far involved and the price went up. She saw that as a victory for the ex and would have no part of it. They split over it

Terrible news, FauxPass. That is the worst possible news I could have heard. But I'd rather hear the truth then have someone sugarcoat it.

FSU Laws make no sense at all to me. A FSU guy gets a FSU girl pregnant, and he retains all of his rights as a parent even without paying one penny of child support, ever. And he also retains his rights as a Father even without ever seeing the child or being any part of the child's life. (face in hands)

This is the worst possible news I could have been told. But again, I'd rather hear the truth and be crushed then be told what I "want to hear".

Hmmmm I have a very sick feeling in my stomach that the 3 girls in Belarus with small children who I am skyping with, that all like me tremendously and want to meet me (not my words, their words) - none of those relationships will work out, as the Children's Fathers will prevent me from ever being able to have a life in the US with the Mother and Child. I am really devastated right now, very sad. I like Olya so much, she likes me even more than I like her, but I do not know if the Dad is a part of her Daughter's life, and I am close to 100% positive he does not pay any child support. But none of that matters because the FSU really has the most f____d up family court system I have ever heard of.

Probably best for me to turn 100% of my focus towards the one girl in Belarus I have liked from the very beginning, who has liked me from the very beginning, who is 29, from Grodna, Belarus, never been married and no Children, but is absolutely begging for a Child, she wants a Child so bad, the tension she feels and expresses to me as a Childless Woman is palpable.

I had no idea that getting involved with a FSU woman with a Child was such a huge mistake. I just had no idea. I have read so many thousands of "supposedly" great things of falling in love with a FSU Woman who has a Child. I think people have been lying to me about this for a very long time. I am pretty devastated right now and I feel sick to my stomach.

[Bee Farmer]

Such a drama queen.

Ready to give up without knowing if obstacles even exist.

Yep, what a 'real man.'

[GatoMoon]

FSU Laws make no sense at all to me. A FSU guy gets a FSU girl pregnant, and he retains all of his rights as a parent even without paying one penny of child support, ever. 

Tell me about it.  The same goes for Colombianos !!!

[treadmilldude]

BillyB, you know a lot about the dynamics that go on between a divorced man and woman, and the child caught in the middle. Did your very pretty (I forgot to tell you, but your Wife is a Princess in those pictures you posted here on RWD. I mean she is a beautiful lady. You are a very blessed man, I wish you and her many years of happiness and love together) Wife already have a Child before you married her?

[jone]

Deadbeat dad is a term that doesn't really exist in the FSU. Although he may not have paid one kopek for the child's upkeep the courts won't go after him for the money and he will retain all of his rights as a father unless he signs them away or the process was instituted for the court to legally take them away. Not paying support or not visiting the child doesn't mean anything in those courts.

The case I mention that I am familiar with, the woman had fake documents drawn up to initiate the process and had paid off a judge to make them legal which likely in all probability would have worked. Dude didn't want to risk it and then he got too far involved and the price went up. She saw that as a victory for the ex and would have no part of it. They split over it

Don't necessarily agree with all you've written here.  I know that in Russia, the woman can appeal to the courts to sieze assets if a man does not pay child support.  I know, as well, that there is a process for garnishing wages.  In reality, if there is a contested support issue, the first thing that the woman should do is go to court and get a ruling that the ex is deficient for child support.    At least in Russia, that is the case.

Although there are a myriad of ways to get around paying child support (many more than in the US, for instance) the best method for obtaining clearance to travel is to put the ex on the defensive with child support.

[jone]

The purpose for this thread evolving the way it did is to explore worst possible scenarios.  Bee Farmer is correct.  TMD you know absolutely nothing about the status of the fathers of those children.  Many men in FSU countries leave the woman and immediately go on to have relations with another woman and start a family with her.  I know a pair of women from Belarus whose father did exactly that.  Since that time, he wanted nothing to do with his former family and, when requested to sign documents for travel, etc., refused to even look at them.

The idea behind the original post was for you to be mindful of the obstacles that you MAY face, not that you are facing.  A good 60% of the women that I knew or talked to who already had children, had no problems getting their children out of the country.    I know a good number more who falsified their paperwork and left.  Keep in mind, the only entity that you are providing the signed/notartized permission to travel is to the US Embassay personnel.  Once you are in the Land of the Free, there are no restrictions on the child or the mother.

(By the way, those mothers who falsified their ex's signatures to get out of the country, claimed that they had no idea where the ex was, and, therefore, had to falsify because the ex took off.)

But, in seeking this visa, and it were me, I would not be trying for a tourist visa, but a K-1 to start with.  That way, once in the US, there will be no requirement to go back to the FSU.

[Trenchcoat]

What cc3 said here is often true.  Ladies don't know for sure who the hell you are for a while....I know that my wife barely let me touch for a while when we first met...I was dumbfounded by what I felt were mixed signals, but she probably needed to know that I wasn't going to bang and run like many other travelling men are apt to do.  The ladies know this happens and sometimes guard against it.  In addition, people/friends/acquaintances see a couple in local places in her hometown, a woman might feel her reputation is at stake with those eyes on her.....Makes perfect sense in retrospect.

Fathertime!

Ah, so I'm suffering because of all you sexpats on here lol

This I think is very true though so thank you for contributing, makes sense that after all these years that men have been visiting that of course bad reputation has probably spread as a result of some men misusing the situation for sex tourism and of course made up rumours. Just as squadies in my country used to get a bad reputation for sex/playing badly with girls and probably still do and used to all get tarred with the same brush even those few that weren't like that. Added to that I had one girl a while back thought I might be a married guy because I emailed late at night, this of course not the case it was just that I answer most of my emails then as its more efficient to deal with them all at one time. Though of course the girl does not know this as many guys with wives already probably do Russian dating to play away, as you rightly said the girl doesn't really know who the hell you are as anyone theoretically says this or that.

Yeah, so anyway now I've chilled a bit and with reflection I think I'll see where it goes with this girl over the longer course, she came across as very warm to me even though there was not a lot of arm holding, etc. Everything else seems perfect with her for me so would be silly to overlook that I think. Guess its reasonable to assume that a girl would have worries/doubts/trust concerns form her perspective similar to as a guy from his and react accordingly. After all I doubt a girl wants to be used for sex the same as a guy doesn't want to be used for his wealth (shopping spree,etc). Just as a girl can turn bad by sending her loads of money the same could be true for a guy whose given sex too early in the relationship perhaps as he might then turn from a guy looking for a relationship into a sex tourist.

My thoughts are this girl has always seemed genuine to me, we seem to get on really well and I think shes into me even if she wasn't affectionate more to my wants at the time and of course it was early days so taking her at her word that she wants to proceed over the longer term seems reasonable to me so that's what I'll do - panic over I think!     

[cc3]

What if your PPO health plan, like mine (and probably my FSU wife if I did in fact already have a FSU Wife who was here in the US with me, got pregnant with my child, and went to the hospital to have the child), has a $2,500 deductible, then a 20% copay after that for a hospital visit (including maternity visit)...I would probably end up spending right at $5,000, maybe a little more, on bringing my new child into the world. So what that FSU sperm donor asked for, $5K, is really pretty reasonable. Anyway you slice it, having a FSU child is expensive and is gonna cost money! LOL I learned that from Manny Stuart of RUA fame through PM's - he gave me a lot of good advice through PM's. I learned a lot from Manny, good guy.

tmdude, a couple of things: "...Manny, good guy." Manny is a blatantly pro-Putin, pro-Kremlin 'Ukrophobe', if I might be allowed to coin a term for hater of all things Ukrainian; secondly, get off your skype cloud, park your butt in an airplane, go to Ukraine, or Belarus, and meet and interact with real women. You are getting almost pathologically wrapped up in your virtual/digital relationships. Leave the world of the imaginary, come to the world of reality, where most of your correspondents on this forum live. Good luck!

[treadmilldude]

Jone, so you are telling me that although the odds of this working are slim to none......you are telling me there's a chance....

[jone]

No.  Everything reported here has been worst case scenario (I believe I have repeatedly stated that.)

A normal FSU woman, who wants to leave the country, will already have thought of everything related to getting her child out of the country.  But you, as a bride seeker, have to ascertain if she is dealing in reality or wishful thinking.  If it is the latter, you want to dump her early in the relationship rather than invest a bunch of time in her and her child.

But many of the women are guarded in who they share the above information.  That was why, at the beginning of this topic, I mentioned that you should find out if the father took part in the daughter's birthday.

I am of the same opinion that you stated above.  Getting a child and mother out of the country has to be done the right way.  Either the father is not in the picture and has no desire to be, or you must obtain his consent, properly.  Things have to be done the right way.  If it were me, I would not entertain a lady who thinks she can bribe a judge or falsify her ex's signature.  That may be her only option, but the option you have is to find another woman before you become too enamoured of the one with the problems.

[JayH]

tmdude, a couple of things: "...Manny, good guy." Manny is a blatantly pro-Putin, pro-Kremlin 'Ukrophobe', if I might be allowed to coin a term for hater of all things Ukrainian; secondly, get off your skype cloud, park your butt in an airplane, go to Ukraine, or Belarus, and meet and interact with real women. You are getting almost pathologically wrapped up in your virtual/digital relationships. Leave the world of the imaginary, come to the world of reality, where most of your correspondents on this forum live. Good luck!

I had the op down for one of Mannys sock puppets that got his login details confused!

It sure would explain his a... up attitude about Ukraine and Ukrainan women !

[JayH]

Given your incredibly poor track record, you should be the one doing the asking, not the one doing the advising.


Fathertime!

For the record  --what exactly what do you say my "track record" is ?
Given this is about your 100th try and making fabricated false  allegations-lets see what you think you "know"

I loathe giving this cretin any air-- but note-- he is handing out advice about the fsu-- and allegedly by his own admission--has never been there and is not involved  nor has been with an fsuw !! So what on earth is he doing here?Putting it simply enough-trolling others in the attempt to make threads about him!

[JayH]

BillyB, you know a lot about the dynamics that go on between a divorced man and woman, and the child caught in the middle. Did your very pretty (I forgot to tell you, but your Wife is a Princess in those pictures you posted here on RWD. I mean she is a beautiful lady. You are a very blessed man, I wish you and her many years of happiness and love together) Wife already have a Child before you married her?

She had not had time-she was 16 yo !! Only thing she wasn't was BB cousin !!
Just jokin BB!!! She wasn't your cousin was she?

[treadmilldude]

I married my Cousin Jay, still happily married to her. We southerners have no problem with that kind of thing, it's just a way of life down here. TooTallBill married his Granny. So no big deal. (That FSU woman you see in Bill's pictures, that is just a cover for Bill for his marriage to his Granny).

[GuppyCaptain]

I'll reply more when I have time, but it was her daughter's Bday two days ago and the father never even called. I'm going to have a serious talk about this when I visit her next month. It sounds like she needs to start documenting his absence in his daughter's life and then move to have sole custody of her (if she doesn't already).

This will be a discussion to have in person with her and not on Skype. I'll be back soon. Thanks for the useful info everyone.

Treadmill, I mean no disrespect but seriously take a chill pill and get on the damn airplane. Do you have a trip date in mind? The reason I ask is that I know from experience that spending even a single week in the FSU will greatly affect the preconceptions that you have about the place and the women. Seriously amigo. GO! You owe it to yourself.

[treadmilldude]

Found out some bad news today. One of the 3 Olya's from Belarus with Children.....Olya 31 from Minsk with a 6 year-old little boy whom I am fond of, incredibly, neglected to tell me that even though her ex has not paid child support since September, he gets his Son every weekend, and the little boy does love his Dad very much. Gee, thanks Olya for not telling me that until our 9th Skype, I appreciate you telling me that in such a timely manner. Amazingly, when I told her she needs to focus on Men from Belarus and I need to find another young lady, she said "Why? What is wrong with me? Don't you still want to skype with me several times per week, fly to Minsk and see me and spend several weeks with me? (Face in Hands)"

Other Olya, the girl I like more than any other girl in the FSU, Olya 33 from Gomel, Belarus with the Daughter Veronica who just turned 7 yesterday (April 4th)...I am going to have a chat with her when she wakes up about 7 AM her time (11PM my time) and find out the details of her Ex. I suppose after that chat, I am either gonna be really happy or really sad. I hope it is a happy chat. I prefer happy chats. 

Guys, I am well-versed on Manny Stuart and his ideologies. I do not personally agree with his political ideologies, but who cares? So we disagree on politics. Manny has really been a tremendous help to me during my few short weeks on RUA before I was banned. He taught me a lot of good pearls through PM's. I wish he was here on RWD, as I know all of you guys love him like a Brother. (Just teasing, I have read a lot of the negative things said about Manny here on RWD). But seriously, I do wish he was here. He has a wealth of knowledge and would bring a lot of quality posts to this board.....and every once in awhile a little bit of strife.

[treadmilldude]

I'll reply more when I have time, but it was her daughter's Bday two days ago and the father never even called. I'm going to have a serious talk about this when I visit her next month. It sounds like she needs to start documenting his absence in his daughter's life and then move to have sole custody of her (if she doesn't already).

This will be a discussion to have in person with her and not on Skype. I'll be back soon. Thanks for the useful info everyone.

Treadmill, I mean no disrespect but seriously take a chill pill and get on the damn airplane. Do you have a trip date in mind? The reason I ask is that I know from experience that spending even a single week in the FSU will greatly affect the preconceptions that you have about the place and the women. Seriously amigo. GO! You owe it to yourself.

Hmmm, not appreciated Guppy. I cannot get on an airplane right now. I am not an airplane pilot blessed to be able to take a week or 2 weeks off whenever I want to. Not every member here has the same options of traveling to the FSU as you do.

Nope, I think I will refrain from taking that chill pill.

[Faux Pas]

Don't necessarily agree with all you've written here.  I know that in Russia, the woman can appeal to the courts to sieze assets if a man does not pay child support.  I know, as well, that there is a process for garnishing wages.  In reality, if there is a contested support issue, the first thing that the woman should do is go to court and get a ruling that the ex is deficient for child support.    At least in Russia, that is the case.

Although there are a myriad of ways to get around paying child support (many more than in the US, for instance) the best method for obtaining clearance to travel is to put the ex on the defensive with child support.

Useless formalities. Sure they can go to court and get rulings but that is a long way from getting any actual support. If the man doesn't wish to pay chances are he will never be forced to. It's too easy in Russia to abandon a child if you are the father. That said, I don't think that there are an abundance of men who do that. Many remain physically and emotionally in the child's life even if not financially. That, mind you, is only my opinion from very limited observation

[jone]

Faux Pas,

I watched, when I was back in Russia last time, whereby a gal filled in two pieces of paper.  Within thirty days she had her judgement which was then served on the guy at work.  His employer took note and notified the court that the dad was working for him, so that if he stopped paying child support, the court would know where to look.

On another note, however, the guy gets half his pay under the table which is not reported or figured for child support.

[redfeather]

TMD and others,
Reading this thread has made me even more aware of why I was not looking for FSU women in their 30's with children at home.  I kinda thought some of these bigger issues might get in the way, and that is why I was looking for 40-50 yr old FSU women because many of these have older children that do not live at home.  These are all valid concerns that must be addressed before a guy gets too deeply involved with an FSU woman.  Going forward these issues could make for a bumpy road ahead.

[Faux Pas]

Faux Pas,

I watched, when I was back in Russia last time, whereby a gal filled in two pieces of paper.  Within thirty days she had her judgement which was then served on the guy at work.  His employer took note and notified the court that the dad was working for him, so that if he stopped paying child support, the court would know where to look.

On another note, however, the guy gets half his pay under the table which is not reported or figured for child support.

I don't doubt you but, be that as it may, it's too easy for a Russian man to not pay if he chooses to not pay. Unlike in that U.S. it is very difficult to escape paying child support. It follows one where ever they go. In Russia if you can't pay off the court official or the employer, just move to another district. It's much too easy

[BillyB]

I have a very sick feeling in my stomach that the 3 girls in Belarus with small children who I am skyping with, that all like me tremendously and want to meet me (not my words, their words) - none of those relationships will work out, as the Children's Fathers will prevent me from ever being able to have a life in the US with the Mother and Child.

You're currently talking to 3 girls about having a happy future with them? Living together in a big house with a white picket fence, dog in yard, and having 2.5 kids? Don't make promises to any of them. Talk to them like friends. You're going to have to choose one and the rest of the women are going to accuse you of being a keyboard Romeo and wasting their time.


There are no guarantees any of the children's fathers will give you trouble. Like others said, we gave you worst case scenarios so you can prepare for it. Some fathers may be signing the papers happy to know their child will have a good future in America. What you need to consider is the best woman for YOU and that is who you should visit.

BillyB, you know a lot about the dynamics that go on between a divorced man and woman, and the child caught in the middle.

Do a lot of reading here over the years and anybody can know a lot about the dynamics of anything in relationships.

Did your very pretty Wife already have a Child before you married her?

She has no children. I focused on women without children not because of the obstacles I could face with a child's father but because in my first marriage, I married a woman who already had a child and this time around, I want any kids in the family to be from me.

After all I doubt a girl wants to be used for sex the same as a guy doesn't want to be used for his wealth (shopping spree,etc).

Both men and women in this endeavor go into this with the thought of marriage. After a few days being together, men should already know if the woman wants to take them shopping and are after their wallet and the women should know if the men only want to use them for sex. After a few days together, they should warm up to each other once they find each other sincere. The first meeting is for people to discover each other and figure out if their compatible, even on the physical level.


You don't know if your lady will ever become affectionate to you as much as you'd like. You do know she's not affectionate. You can risk your next vacation and money to visit this woman again. Don't be upset if she remains the same since the risk is all yours.

[treadmilldude]

Redfeather, yes, I am having brand new reservations about looking for a woman with a child after reading this thread here today. Olya, 31 from Minsk with little 6 year-old Arseniy - she messaged me first on Mamba, then the following day, she asked to be friends on VK. She was the one that pursued me, not the other way around. I thought she was a wonderful, kind woman. Now I have realized she is a woman who makes odd choices of who she chooses to befriend on Mamba and she literally has no common sense.

All these obstacles of meeting, falling in love with and ultimately marrying a woman with a child. (face in hands) I mean I ask myself, is all of this trouble worth it? Or should I just stick with the wonderful Belarussian women I have met who do not have a child, but badly want a child because their biological clock is ticking? I am going to talk to the girl I like the Most of anyone, Olya 33 from Gomel, tonight 11 PM my time. My gut feeling tells me the Father is not involved in the kids life, and I am close to certain he does not pay any child support. I just hope and pray things can work out with her and I am able to get her Daughter to the US. If it does not work out with this girl, then fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.....I am probably completely finished searching in the pool of Belarussian women with young Children. I hope Olya and I will have a happy ending. These Belarussian women, for some weird reason, do not grasp the concept that Fathers have rights too. It's not all about the Mothers.

[fathertime]

For the record  --what exactly what do you say my "track record" is ?
Given this is about your 100th try and making fabricated false  allegations-lets see what you think you "know"

I loathe giving this cretin any air-- but note-- he is handing out advice about the fsu-- and allegedly by his own admission--has never been there and is not involved  nor has been with an fsuw !! So what on earth is he doing here?Putting it simply enough-trolling others in the attempt to make threads about him!

Haha crybaby!


You have your 'facts' wrong about me, but I prefer it that way!  Your record is indeed very poor, your 'advice' is often inept, which makes sense given how hapless you have been, and will continue to be.  You are better off listening, rather than speaking, but are too ignorant to recognize that.  Thanks for bringing me up and providing me the 'airtime'!




Fathertime!