Update. Not Good.

[mies]

Don't worry Mies but no you can't be a member of our little club. It's a private club. It's members are a hardened group. We have all traveled a lonesome road and stood in that long grey line. Obviously I can't speak for all of our members but I wou venture to say that most members could not care less the opinions of non members of said subject. Girlfriends don't count. A divorce with kids gets you a seat at the head table and more feathers in your hat. It's not a club we are proud of. It was very expensive emotionally as well as monetarily.

Yes, your honor. I comply. I forgot there are two opinions: yours and the wrong one.
Please, allow me to reiterate:
- your quote me as an example of the opinion that is unreasonable and lacking logic and "At the end of the day the bottom line is you cant tell them shit because they already know all the solutions and all of the answers." (by "them" I presume you are talking about FSU women in their totality?);
- after that you say that you "never addressed me";
- you tell me that my "opinion on the matter loses some credibility" unless I am the "member of your club" (here I am not quite sure where are you heading to. Do you want me to stop talking? Or are you simply saying that you are not listening?)
- finally, you say: "could not care less the opinions of non members of said subject. Girlfriends don't count."

{How long did you say your wife tolerated you? 6 years? and had a child with you? Oy vey iz mir...}



It is funny to see how people who handled the issue terribly poorly, view themselves as experts and the source of best advice on how to handle the issue well.
But now since we are on the topic, Greg, and since you have a seat in head table and most feathers in your hat, what mistakes do you think you made in your own divorce, and how that relates to the Lonedrake's story? What should he do to make sure his divorce does not last 3 years? What should he do or not do to avoid a heavy financial and emotional toll?

[mies]

You could probably do that now since the Supreme Court decision on Gay Marriage. Things have changed a lot since my crack up 13 years ago.

It seems worth while trying, if this way I can get Greg's approval and permission to speak.

[Gator]

Mies,

Your contributions are very valuable.  Thank you.  As Muzh stated, you give the FSUW perspective, something that certainly will be considered by the judge within the constraints of family law. 

You also made me chuckle when talking about your marrying a FSUW.

A couple of points:

When he got fed up with the problems in the marriage he dropped his wife like hot potato.

The term "fed up" is a gross understatement of the level of stress that could exist.  My opinion is based on my personal experience of being married for 25 years to a depressed spouse.  And my wife had been properly diagnosed by a psychiatrist and  received continuing therapy to include medication such as serotonin reuptake inhibitors. 

Because LD's wife avoids American psychiatrists, I can not imagine she has been properly diagnosed.  Does she need  medication?  Who knows, but if she does she is not receiving meds because they must be prescribed by a medical doctor.    Let's add everything up:  more than likely an incomplete diagnosis,  the possibility that the mental disorder could be severe,  consultation by Skype with someone with dubious qualifications given the state of mental healthcare in the FSU, no counseling by someone familiar with American life, and probably no medications.    I forgot to list one important point:   she is trying to cope in a new country whose language she does not understand.  The stress level could be horrific. 

And there could be more than a mental disorder causing the divorce.  A great number of healthy FSUW get divorced for a variety of reasons.  One or more of those reasons could be involved with LD's marriage. 

I understand that it is difficult to live with psychologically/emotionally unstable person. Was it reasonable to expect that divorce proceedings would make the wife more emotionally stable?

You make an interesting point.  Whether LD's wife stays married or not, her mental condition will not improve given the lack of therapy.   Removing LD from her life will remove one source of stress - namely the differences that typically occur between any husband and wife.  IMO advoiding sources of stress is not the best answer because stress in life is inevitable.   Some psychiatrists indeed work to remove stress, equivalent to placing their patient in the shallow end of the pool and giving them a floating device (meds).  The better psychiatrists will teach their patients how to swim in the deep end of the pool.   

If the source of LD's divorce derives solely from her mental disorder, it would be best that she attempt proper therapy.  However, she does not. 

When there is a person on the emotional verge, and you have to interact with this psychotic individual, do you try to calm them down and sort things out peacefully, or do you provoke confrontation and conflict and act in a threatening way?

That would be wonderful!  It is obvious Mies that you are a well adjusted person,  with a happy marriage and probably growing up in a loving,  functional home.  However,  part and parcel of most mental disorders is degree of thought disorder.  This is more than illogical thinking.    Quoting from Wiki, this could be  "...unusual or bizarre behavior, as well as difficulty with social interaction and impairment in carrying out daily life activities."    Sorting things out is difficult if not impossible. 

Have you ever seen how psychiatrists talk to their patient? It's not a rocket science after all. Basic common sense.

The psychiatrist has years of high level education and practice.  Also, a patient views the psychiatrist as an advocate, and the psychiatrist is not a source of conflict.   A spouse OTOH ....... 

[Gator]

LMAO


I didn't call anyone a misogynist. Funny how you can "read between the lines" in some cases and are totally blind for others.

Perhaps it is not inference as much as transference of soundbites from Clinton and talking heads about the Republican war against women.

Pl
   

[lonedrake]

Mies,

 I will say that your interpretation of how the divorce happened and what led up to it is inaccurate. However, that is because I left out most of the story. I might share it sometime...but I might not.

If you want to talk about it send me a pm and I will give you my number.

[fathertime]

The term "fed up" is a gross understatement of the level of stress that could exist.  My opinion is based on my personal experience of being married for 25 years to a depressed spouse.  And my wife had been properly diagnosed by a psychiatrist and  received continuing therapy to include medication such as serotonin reuptake inhibitors. 

what a nightmare...life is too short for 25 years of all that.
Fathertime! 

[mies]

The psychiatrist has years of high level education and practice.  Also, a patient views the psychiatrist as an advocate, and the psychiatrist is not a source of conflict.   A spouse OTOH .......

the patient views the psychiatrist the way his or her paranoid and delusional mind telling them. very often - as one of the enemies, part of the conspiracy ring.
As for the source of conflict - i am in complete agreement with you, this is exactly what i am saying: Lonedrake made himself a source of conflict. Unnecessarily so.
My stance on it: we are all human, at times we act unwise. If I were LD, I would try to remove myself from a role of a "source of conflict." It might me still reparable. There should be ways to try it without placing oneself in even greater risk.

[GregfromGa]

Miss, with all due respect I haven't the time or inclination to get into a pissing match with you here. I'm Sure you have the answers and I'm sure I'm wrong in your humble and obvious professional opinion. My story is known here to the veterans. I've rebounded well. My kids are ok. I'm Sure your insight into this endeavor is very good. I'm Merely saying that you've never divorced a fsu woman nor sat across from one flanked by lawyers. It's like trying to ride a wild horse into a burning stable.

[mies]

Mies,

 I will say that your interpretation of how the divorce happened and what led up to it is inaccurate. However, that is because I left out most of the story. I might share it sometime...but I might not.

If you want to talk about it send me a pm and I will give you my number.

Lonedrake, I do not speculate on what led up to divorce because it's none of my business, and I believe your decision to divorce was based on serious factors. The way I see it - you are a good person who at the moment finds himself in a bad situation.

[mies]

Miss, with all due respect I haven't the time or inclination to get into a pissing match with you here. I'm Sure you have the answers and I'm sure I'm wrong in your humble and obvious professional opinion. My story is known here to the veterans. I've rebounded well. My kids are ok. I'm Sure your insight into this endeavor is very good. I'm Merely saying that you've never divorced a fsu woman nor sat across from one flanked by lawyers. It's like trying to ride a wild horse into a burning stable.

pissing match is a purely male entertainment. It's not physiologically possible for a female to participate in a pissing match with a male.
(yes, I do know this saying. That was sarcasm)

sharing painful memories is one thing, and it is also important. I was merely trying to explain why an FSU woman acts in a certain way. There is a logic in woman's actions, you just don't see it - possibly because you are not an FSU woman.
You propose to treat FSU woman as a natural calamity, I say there may be ways/methods to control & abate the storm.

I read your story when you were sharing it, back then. In my impression: you are very domineering and hot-headed man. Never heard the word "compromise". And this caused a lot of tension in your marriage with an FSUW because FSU women do not take it too well. I'd also take a wild guess that you have high integrity, high/demanding standards for yourself and people around you. Which is admirable, but again, might be a PITA at times to live with a person like that.

[Gator]

the patient views the psychiatrist the way his or her paranoid and delusional mind telling them. very often - as one of the enemies, part of the conspiracy ring.

In such a case, the psychiatrist may be able to diagnose a patient, yet therapy seemingly would be impossible until the patient trusted the doctor.

As for the source of conflict - i am in complete agreement with you, this is exactly what i am saying: Lonedrake made himself a source of conflict. Unnecessarily so.

You and I are having a conflict about the definition of "conflict."   Conflicts can be a minor incompatibility or something that grows into a protracted dispute.  Happily married, well adjusted couples are able to resolve conflicts quickly and productively. 

Now in the case of some mental disorders, the conflict may be imagined as part of delusional behavior.  Mies. how do you resolved something imagined?

[GregfromGa]

pissing match is a purely male entertainment. It's not physiologically possible for a female to participate in a pissing match with a male.
(yes, I do know this saying. That was sarcasm)

sharing painful memories is one thing, and it is also important. I was merely trying to explain why an FSU woman acts in a certain way. There is a logic in woman's actions, you just don't see it - possibly because you are not an FSU woman.
You propose to treat FSU woman as a natural calamity, I say there may be ways/methods to control & abate the storm.

I read your story when you were sharing it, back then. In my impression: you are very domineering and hot-headed man. Never heard the word "compromise". And this caused a lot of tension in your marriage with an FSUW because FSU women do not take it too well. I'd also take a wild guess that you have high integrity, high/demanding standards for yourself and people around you. Which is admirable, but again, might be a PITA at times to live with a person like that.

You are more than just a little off but that's ok. This thread isn't about me. Lets focus on LD and lets help him get to a better place.

[mies]

Now in the case of some mental disorders, the conflict may be imagined as part of delusional behavior.  Mies. how do you resolved something imagined?

You are correct. It is impossible to resolve something which is a product of imagination of one person.
I was wrong.

[southernX]

interesting  advice and thoughts here for you lone drake

mies & others have  contributed some very helpfull information which i would urge you to consider because a lot of conflict might be avoided if one does not assume/contribute a seperated partner or wifes behaviour to our own assumptions of  intended actions

ime , it is a waste of time trying to attribute some meaning to another persons actions ..unless they actually advise you of their intentions clearly , you will waste a lot of time , energy and emotions to discover there is no ''WHY ''?  to what they did


are you totaly sure your wife wants a divorce  ??  or has she in her mind taken that as your intent based on your actions ?? & it has grown from their ??

if you truly cannot salvage this marriage and believe it has gone past that point , then make your decisions about your course of action and stick to what you need to do

be fair and respect your ex in all ways regardless of what she may say or do and your advice from ''friends '& family

stop all communication other than what you must for legal purposes

try to keep your self busy , it helps keep your mind focused on ''you '' and will aid in a faster recovery emotionaly

prepare &  set out a plan of what you are comfortable to offer her in the divorce keeping in mind your legal obligations
takeing positive action about what you can do will empower you to move through this time better & you will live with yourself easier after the event

yes it has been said you brought your wife to her new country , but keep in mind she as an adult also chose to come and marry you , niave or not , she made a deliberate choice , ans she would or should  have thought through the possible outcomes and the impacts that might have ,

most marriages fail due to lack of good communication and building resentment around that, then assumptions and negative actions take over ,
thats when parties go to war  imo

trust can be broken , but it can also be won back , its the lack of commitment & resentment that kills it much quicker

 ,if you keep it fair and reasonable you both will come through quicker and easier than going to war ,
i wish you both the best

SX

[Maxx2]

The cultural difficulties for FSUW to adapt to, language limitations, homesickness and all the Immigration rules, requirements and hoops to jump through and the COSTS makes me fear ever importing a FSU woman into the United States again. Getting set up for another green card scam is a very, very distant concern of mine, almost nonexistent. I am living in the FSU now. I've been here almost 5 months. If I did remarry a FSU woman I would build my world around her world and not drag her into the United States. It might be a great place "the land of opportunity" and all that but 9 times out of 10 the FSU woman is not going to like it, especially at first and her sponsor will pay the price. It is as if the original sponsor does all the work, pays the costs and another guy comes along with not much to lose and gets the reward.

[Maxx2]

are you totaly sure your wife wants a divorce  ??  or has she in her mind taken that as your intent based on your actions ?? & it has grown from their ??

if you truly cannot salvage this marriage and believe it has gone past that point , then make your decisions about your course of action and stick to what you need to do

There was poster from about 15 years back married to a RW. He was medical doctor by the message board name of "the Witchdoctor" He said if a woman calls in the police by use of a false charge then that is a deal breaker. There is no salvaging of such a marriage. I've seen quite a few examples of men who ignored this advice and inevitably they've ended up in jail for a night or weekend.

[GregfromGa]

The cultural difficulties for FSUW to adapt to, language limitations, homesickness and all the Immigration rules, requirements and hoops to jump through and the COSTS makes me fear ever importing a FSU woman into the United States again. Getting set up for another green card scam is a very, very distant concern of mine, almost nonexistent. I am living in the FSU now. I've been here almost 5 months. If I did remarry a FSU woman I would build my world around her world and not drag her into the United States. It might be a great place "the land of opportunity" and all that but 9 times out of 10 the FSU woman is not going to like it, especially at first and her sponsor will pay the price. It is as if the original sponsor does all the work, pays the costs and another guy comes along with not much to lose and gets the reward.

 
In my humble opinion, this hits the nail on the head. I'm sure there are exceptions. We have a few here that has had success. The women that make it work are very sharp and the guys are lucky.

[Slumba]

The cultural difficulties for FSUW to adapt to, language limitations, homesickness and all the Immigration rules, requirements and hoops to jump through and the COSTS makes me fear ever importing a FSU woman into the United States again. Getting set up for another green card scam is a very, very distant concern of mine, almost nonexistent. I am living in the FSU now. I've been here almost 5 months. If I did remarry a FSU woman I would build my world around her world and not drag her into the United States. It might be a great place "the land of opportunity" and all that but 9 times out of 10 the FSU woman is not going to like it, especially at first and her sponsor will pay the price. It is as if the original sponsor does all the work, pays the costs and another guy comes along with not much to lose and gets the reward.

I have come to a similar conclusion.  Also, women are much more sensitive to their local social networks, so taking them out of that is much more stressful. 

I like to think I can make new friends easily; and being a guy, need only a few close friends and not an entire network.  Thus it makes more sense for me to expat myself.

[ML]

The cultural difficulties for FSUW to adapt to, language limitations, homesickness and all the Immigration rules, requirements and hoops to jump through and the COSTS makes me fear ever importing a FSU woman into the United States again. Getting set up for another green card scam is a very, very distant concern of mine, almost nonexistent. I am living in the FSU now. I've been here almost 5 months. If I did remarry a FSU woman I would build my world around her world and not drag her into the United States. It might be a great place "the land of opportunity" and all that but 9 times out of 10 the FSU woman is not going to like it, especially at first and her sponsor will pay the price. It is as if the original sponsor does all the work, pays the costs and another guy comes along with not much to lose and gets the reward.

As others have said . . . it makes a lot of sense.

However, the drawback for 90% or so of the guys here is . . . it's impossible to do . . . career wise.

Only a very few guys have career jobs that allow them to work from almost anywhere in world.

The most obvious who can try this are retired fellas.

However, the medical situation will bite these fellas on the ass big time . . . at some point.

Retired USA guys must continue to pay into Medicare (if they don't maintain continuous coverage, it will cost a fortune to get back it . . . and this applies to the supplemental coverage also) . . . but they can not use Medicare anywhere outside the USA.

So no real solution here.  Still best to bring the gals to USA or your country . . . and hope for best.

[pokerintherear]

LD,  What will happen next is this...................... Most likely her lawyer will ask the judge for x amount of money for support while the divorce is in the court system. The judge will also remove you from the marital residence until the divorce is final. They will draw it out as long as possible to receive the support money from you,  which will go away once it is finalized. This is divorce 101 for a lawyer representing a client like your wife.

Its designed to milk as much money out of you as possible before the judge signs the divorce papers. After they get the Judge to agree to temporary support and place her back in the marital residence with you paying all the expenses, they will ask for a continuance at every court date to stretch it out as long as possible.

As someone stated it would be best to have your lawyer prepared to argue for a settlement as quick as possible. But seldom will the Judge agree after her lawyer presents him their side of the story. There will be many request for "discovery" all for BS items. Again to draw it out as long as they can convince the Judge to keep setting dates.

In the end you will still have most of your possessions and home but the duration is what will drain you. The lawyer knows this. Get what we can now and of course you will pay for every hour of her lawyer. How is a poor immigrant with no job supposed to pay for a fair divorce?

Prepare my good friend and settle as soon as possible and don't get drawn into the games.

[Gator]

LD,  What will happen next is this...................... Most likely her lawyer will ask the judge for x amount of money for support while the divorce is in the court system. The judge will also remove you from the marital residence until the divorce is final. They will draw it out as long as possible to receive the support money from you,  which will go away once it is finalized. This is divorce 101 for a lawyer representing a client like your wife.

Its designed to milk as much money out of you as possible before the judge signs the divorce papers. After they get the Judge to agree to temporary support and place her back in the marital residence with you paying all the expenses, they will ask for a continuance at every court date to stretch it out as long as possible.

As someone stated it would be best to have your lawyer prepared to argue for a settlement as quick as possible. But seldom will the Judge agree after her lawyer presents him their side of the story. There will be many request for "discovery" all for BS items. Again to draw it out as long as they can convince the Judge to keep setting dates.

In the end you will still have most of your possessions and home but the duration is what will drain you. The lawyer knows this. Get what we can now and of course you will pay for every hour of her lawyer. How is a poor immigrant with no job supposed to pay for a fair divorce?

Prepare my good friend and settle as soon as possible and don't get drawn into the games.

Such could easily be the situation if her attorney is aggressive and "works" the case (i. e., run up a large legal bill).

Such is not the case if the wife's attorney follows a  collaborative process.   

Judges prefer the latter because the cases settles quickly and does not clog the docket. 

[BillyB]

The cultural difficulties for FSUW to adapt to, language limitations, homesickness and all the Immigration rules, requirements and hoops to jump through and the COSTS makes me fear ever importing a FSU woman into the United States again.

Lots of immigrants come to America and are doing fine. Doing better here than life back home.

It might be a great place "the land of opportunity" and all that but 9 times out of 10 the FSU woman is not going to like it, especially at first and her sponsor will pay the price. It is as if the original sponsor does all the work, pays the costs and another guy comes along with not much to lose and gets the reward.

Hundreds of thousands of FSU people are located around where I live. Rarely does anybody go home. Maybe 1 out of 10 doesn't like it and it's usually grandparents that have the most difficulty learning a new language. If a guy chose a sincere woman, takes care of her, and she likes her man, she will be happy living with him most anywhere.

[Maxx2]

Lots of immigrants come to America and are doing fine. Doing better here than life back home.


Hundreds of thousands of FSU people are located around where I live. Rarely does anybody go home. Maybe 1 out of 10 doesn't like it and it's usually grandparents that have the most difficulty learning a new language. If a guy chose a sincere woman, takes care of her, and she likes her man, she will be happy living with him most anywhere.

My point was that many of them get all their frustrations out about their new home and country with their husband the sponsor, then divorce and then go off and find a man more to their liking (I managed to get 4 "theirs" in 1 sentence). Their sponsor into the US was not the man that they would have chosen if they had a choice in the matter. They compromised that to get the material benefits and immigration status into the "Land of Opportunity." In other words the guy was the convenient mule to help them emigrate. But once here and their immigration status resolved it is on to the bigger and better deal unless they are wise enough to realize that there might be a risk in that. Hence then a lot of cold loveless marriages. I've seen plenty of those. Which reminds me I should call a friend now who is going through that. We usually chat in his evening my morning. It is 6 AM here and 9 PM there.

[BillyB]

Their sponsor into the US was not the man that they would have chosen if they had a choice in the matter.

Women that are not into us, insincere women, gold diggers, and GCG's are out there. They are in America too. I've dated some but didn't propose. We have a responsibility to ourselves to figure out who we're bringing into our lives. We are not kids anymore. We should know by now this late in our lives how good a judge we are in figuring out people's characters and if they're a good fit with us as friends or a spouse. Some of us need more time than others to figure out people so it's best we take the time accordingly to figure out who we're marrying.

There's a lot of quality American women but they get married and stay married. It's a different dynamic in the FSU. There are a lot of quality FSU women that are still single. If I had to do this again and again, I would consider FSU every time. I would continue to date here but keep my options open.

[Maxx2]

Women that are not into us, insincere women, gold diggers, and GCG's are out there. They are in America too. I've dated some but didn't propose. We have a responsibility to ourselves to figure out who we're bringing into our lives. We are not kids anymore. We should know by now this late in our lives how good a judge we are in figuring out people's characters and if they're a good fit with us as friends or a spouse. Some of us need more time than others to figure out people so it's best we take the time accordingly to figure out who we're marrying.

There's a lot of quality American women but they get married and stay married. It's a different dynamic in the FSU. There are a lot of quality FSU women that are still single. If I had to do this again and again, I would consider FSU every time. I would continue to date here but keep my options open.

Nothing there I disagree with. When I blew it with my choice I felt sorry for the next guy who'd have deal with her. I'm a 1000 times smarter now.