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Author Topic: Trench's Questions and Philosophies  (Read 167283 times)

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Offline Muzh

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #75 on: July 15, 2017, 12:09:37 PM »
I used it as an example.  As you are not yet married, I suspect there are things you can do to protect your home.  Don't be a cheapskate - go see the best matrimonial lawyer in your area and ask how you can protect yourself.


He is talking about divorce and he is not married yet?  :-\


Self-fullfilling profecy.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #76 on: July 15, 2017, 12:18:18 PM »
I don't think there is anything wrong with protecting your pre exsiting assets as much as possible. 
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #77 on: July 15, 2017, 01:31:07 PM »
Kherson is not an English village.  It is in Ukraine, and its inhabitants have a Slavic mentality.

How many English families in your village live on top of one another, with four generations (often) sharing a two room apartment?

Why are you asking for this information if you doubt it?

People there aren't stupid.  They are going to figure it out, and quickly, at that.

It's not being a busybody in their culture.  In fact, in Soviet times, it was encouraged, even rewarded.

You are saving her nothing by moving to Kherson.  Housing is not the expense it is in the West. Yes, she can't stop you from moving, but she can refuse to see you.

You can't know.  But a girl that much younger than you has chosen you because you provide her the opportunity of a lifestyle she can't have with a UM.  She is using what she has (lbeauty) to better her station in life, just as you are using what you have (providing economic stability) to obtain a girl you could not in the West.

Life comes with no guarantees.  If you can't live with this, then FSUW or, for that matter, relationships in general, are not for you.

OMG Boethius, sounds like the worst case of busybodyness I have heard off, lol. Well I've studied Soviet history so know that there was apparently a lot of informanting etc as you suggest back then but I had no idea it went into personal relationships and even to this day. Truely shocking  :o

Well I don't know what to do. She just takes the same line that she expects visit next to UK and me to buy her stuff. She won't budge, is that the Slavic mentality? Will pretty much all girls out there be that stubborn and just want me to do the visit/move to UK Deal straight off? Just seems so bizarre to me that I have supposedly got the better hand but apparently can't be in control  :-\
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 02:42:39 PM by Trenchcoat »
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Offline wallm

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #78 on: July 15, 2017, 01:34:49 PM »
Trench, listen to those that have FSU spouses. They have the experience. Your thought process is fu***d up. I just returned from a week long trip to Nikolaev visiting the girl I am pursuing. We went to Kherson to visit for a day. Neither Nikolaev nor Kherson is a place I would want to live in for more than a few weeks. Is your girl truly worth making the sacrifice of living there for? You canít also think about all the negative things such as you being a mule, etc. If she is causing you to have all these thoughts (in addition to you being who you are), move on to someone else. If you insist on living there and end up in a poor situation, you are going to end up resenting her. That is no way to live.

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #79 on: July 15, 2017, 02:52:09 PM »
Trench, listen to those that have FSU spouses. They have the experience. Your thought process is fu***d up. I just returned from a week long trip to Nikolaev visiting the girl I am pursuing. We went to Kherson to visit for a day. Neither Nikolaev nor Kherson is a place I would want to live in for more than a few weeks. Is your girl truly worth making the sacrifice of living there for? You canít also think about all the negative things such as you being a mule, etc. If she is causing you to have all these thoughts (in addition to you being who you are), move on to someone else. If you insist on living there and end up in a poor situation, you are going to end up resenting her. That is no way to live.

Good to see you back on here Wall, wondered where you had got too :D So what about you? you're girl must be at about the same stage of wanting to visit the US you've known her for about as long as mine, visit wise also. As you know I've been to Nikolaev and know its pretty sedate, kind of Truman Show meets Groundhog Day i.e like the same day replaying over and over again. I know there is not much there and would have to busy myself on something. Nikolaev town centre is pleasant enough even is much isn't happening, the outskirts are urban but you get used to it I find. Kherson I have not been but can imagine it would not hold interest for long so again using oneself is no doubt important. I don't think I would be in a real poor situation if I can secure an independent income. In any case I am not proposing to live their indefinitely just long enough to really get to know the girl. To me is seems silly that there is this real big uproar that I can't do this.
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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #80 on: July 15, 2017, 04:01:07 PM »
Good to see you back on here Wall, wondered where you had got too :D So what about you? you're girl must be at about the same stage of wanting to visit the US you've known her for about as long as mine, visit wise also. As you know I've been to Nikolaev and know its pretty sedate, kind of Truman Show meets Groundhog Day i.e like the same day replaying over and over again. I know there is not much there and would have to busy myself on something. Nikolaev town centre is pleasant enough even is much isn't happening, the outskirts are urban but you get used to it I find. Kherson I have not been but can imagine it would not hold interest for long so again using oneself is no doubt important. I don't think I would be in a real poor situation if I can secure an independent income. In any case I am not proposing to live their indefinitely just long enough to really get to know the girl. To me is seems silly that there is this real big uproar that I can't do this.


It isn't that we don't think you can do it, it is we think you shouldn't do it. Not for this girl. Of course, I find it funny that the most risk adverse, scam fearing guy in history, is involved with an obvious scammer. My guess, he has a local guy who is living in the UK and is looking for a mule to get her there. For god sake, listen to Bill and Boe. We do not want to see your trainwreck actually happen...


HDL

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #81 on: July 15, 2017, 04:42:58 PM »

It isn't that we don't think you can do it, it is we think you shouldn't do it. Not for this girl. Of course, I find it funny that the most risk adverse, scam fearing guy in history, is involved with an obvious scammer. My guess, he has a local guy who is living in the UK and is looking for a mule to get her there. For god sake, listen to Bill and Boe. We do not want to see your trainwreck actually happen...

HDL

Why do you think that?
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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #82 on: July 15, 2017, 05:02:07 PM »
Why do you think that?


Why do I think that?


1) She found you, therefore its possible that she wanted a UK citizen. Specifically.
2) She doesn't want you in her city
3) She has milked two vacations out of you and is now upping her game to clothing.
    3a) If you have ever been in a Soviet style apartment, you would know the lack of closet space, so how many             clothes does she need or have room for?
4) I (any several others here) have been where you are. We recognize the pattern
5) You are making excuses to keep a bad situation going, as you still think you want to "co-habituate" with her.


If you are cool having an "arrangement" with this girl, OK. But she is pushing to be imported to specifically the UK. If she was in this for YOU, she wouldn't care what country you lived in. Just something for you to think about.


HDL.

Offline wallm

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #83 on: July 15, 2017, 05:11:37 PM »
you're girl must be at about the same stage of wanting to visit the US you've known her for about as long as mine, visit wise also.

She has not yet asked to visit US. Even if she wants to, she canít get a tourist visa. I am nowhere near asking her to marry me. We are just enjoying ourselves and getting to know each other. I will go back in September. The uproar is more about your girl and less about you living there. She wants to live in UK which is fine but should that be a deal breaker? And she is a shopaholic according to you. She is bad news.

HDL is right. If she truly is in this for you, she won't care where she lives.
Stop thinking with the little head. ;D You are trying to justify bad choices.

Online LAman

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #84 on: July 15, 2017, 05:53:05 PM »

Why do I think that?


1) She found you, therefore its possible that she wanted a UK citizen. Specifically.
2) She doesn't want you in her city
3) She has milked two vacations out of you and is now upping her game to clothing.
    3a) If you have ever been in a Soviet style apartment, you would know the lack of closet space, so how many             clothes does she need or have room for?
4) I (any several others here) have been where you are. We recognize the pattern
5) You are making excuses to keep a bad situation going, as you still think you want to "co-habituate" with her.


If you are cool having an "arrangement" with this girl, OK. But she is pushing to be imported to specifically the UK. If she was in this for YOU, she wouldn't care what country you lived in. Just something for you to think about.


HDL.

HDL, WHERE is the scam from this 'scammer'???

Cause she wants to live in UK?
Cause she wants cloths? She gave him something!!! )))
I didn't know trench's girl arranged vacations(her idea)?
Maybe trench is butt ugly and girl is embarrassed to be amongst friends?

Maybe there is a new definition of 'scammer'?
Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #85 on: July 16, 2017, 01:36:56 AM »

Why do I think that?


1) She found you, therefore its possible that she wanted a UK citizen. Specifically.
2) She doesn't want you in her city
3) She has milked two vacations out of you and is now upping her game to clothing.
    3a) If you have ever been in a Soviet style apartment, you would know the lack of closet space, so how many             clothes does she need or have room for?
4) I (any several others here) have been where you are. We recognize the pattern
5) You are making excuses to keep a bad situation going, as you still think you want to "co-habituate" with her.


If you are cool having an "arrangement" with this girl, OK. But she is pushing to be imported to specifically the UK. If she was in this for YOU, she wouldn't care what country you lived in. Just something for you to think about.


HDL.

Well apparently a woman she worked with met a UK guy and now lives in the UK so she thought she would look abroad also. Prior to me about a year or two ago she was with a guy from another European country or so she says but it did not work out - neither of us want to go into previous relationships that much so I think its a general consensus that we are both more comfortable leaving it at that. I stated to her recently that she must be fine for clothes now as she can't have much space in her small apartment room so no need for me to buy any more before marriage/living together. She had a problem on the first vacation it got worse on the second with regard to wanting me to buy her clothing, I should have put my foot down more as on the first. They had a sale on the second vacation so it seemed expedient to let her buy a few but she still got more than I think she should have, that and we ate out a lot so it all added to the bill that got a bit expensive at the end of the day. Nothing I can't recover from with a break from spending and time at work but I don't want a recurrence of the same, I don't mind buying the odd dress for her or whatever but I just don't want to be a walking credit card. I not sure if she just feels its her right as a hot girl, just obsessed with clothing but it is creating an unfortunate wedge in our relationship. Her stating that it is UK visit next is not sitting well with me - I don't like that she is wanting to call the shots and I merely have no choice other than to follow on. So I appreciate number 4 on your list I can well understand that the same situation re-occur hence why the 'Pitfall List' I offered forward.

As far as vacation was concerned she said she wanted a beach holiday, she did not want Ukraine again, neither did I so as Ukraine was just getting Visa-free to EU I suggested a country in the Med. It seemed we were in not too bad a place by the end of the first holiday so that is why I was happy to do holiday. I now thing that holidays are just a bad idea, don't get me wrong I enjoyed it (apart from the expense) but it added virtually zero to advancing our relationship. We should have got busy on messaging or with her in her city trying to sort out problems in relationship. By the way HDL, Boethius seems to think the opposite of you that there are good reasons for her not wanting me in Kherson as the town talks apparently and I should bring girl for visit to the UK. I can't help but think though that her directness in coming to the UK is for some reason other than me.

Like you say a girl who wants to be with me I thought as well would want to be with me where ever. I have already promised another EU country in the Med as convenient for us both but she was at best luke warm to the idea. She does not want me in Kherson, yet she seems to have UK in her crosshairs as the place to be. If she had not carelessly racked up my expenses on clothing and food (one dish she ordered she barely touched and this was after I stated whether we needed to eat again as we had only just done a couple of hours or so before hand) then I would have less qualms. That said I do care for the girl and can appreciate not all Ukrainian girls will act the same, the age difference, that she is hot, etc and seems to have some attachment to me in seemingly wanting to be with me. So I am on the fence and think the only way to get off it is for me to go to Kherson, delve further.
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Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #86 on: July 16, 2017, 02:02:52 AM »
She has not yet asked to visit US. Even if she wants to, she canít get a tourist visa. I am nowhere near asking her to marry me. We are just enjoying ourselves and getting to know each other. I will go back in September. The uproar is more about your girl and less about you living there. She wants to live in UK which is fine but should that be a deal breaker? And she is a shopaholic according to you. She is bad news.

HDL is right. If she truly is in this for you, she won't care where she lives.
Stop thinking with the little head. ;D You are trying to justify bad choices
.

My thoughts exactly and I don't think I'm likely the answers I need until I visit Kherson and in that respects I would rather plan for a extended stay if necessary so I can have the opportunity of other woman if she does turn out to be a bad one. For UK I'm think its much like the US difficult for Ukrainian women to visit. She has forwarded to me a list of documentation I need to provide and she need to provide to be able to do this (from the British Embassy). I have pointed out the pain in the arse of doing this, that even after we attempt it it could well get knocked back she says I am just using this that she thinks I don't really want her to visit as I have a family. I told her this is not true. She does not have a bank account for example - I could set one up for her possibly but will no doubt have to pay in money (convenient for her), the amount of money she will have to show to live on again will entail sending her more money. The way I see it I have already input enough money into this relationship and she has taken advantage, I want to see that all is up front first and get to really know her. Her demands to come to UK are just not on in my book. Your girl for example is not demanding this and I assume she is not getting you buying her lots of clothes?
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Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #87 on: July 16, 2017, 02:10:04 AM »
Kherson is not an English village.  It is in Ukraine, and its inhabitants have a Slavic mentality.

How many English families in your village live on top of one another, with four generations (often) sharing a two room apartment?

Why are you asking for this information if you doubt it?

People there aren't stupid.  They are going to figure it out, and quickly, at that.

It's not being a busybody in their culture.  In fact, in Soviet times, it was encouraged, even rewarded.

You are saving her nothing by moving to Kherson.  Housing is not the expense it is in the West. Yes, she can't stop you from moving, but she can refuse to see you.

You can't know.  But a girl that much younger than you has chosen you because you provide her the opportunity of a lifestyle she can't have with a UM.  She is using what she has (lbeauty) to better her station in life, just as you are using what you have (providing economic stability) to obtain a girl you could not in the West.

Life comes with no guarantees.  If you can't live with this, then FSUW or, for that matter, relationships in general, are not for you.

I am still not convinced by this, sure I can see that people live in far greater density than the UK but is a girl meeting/having a relationship really going to be that big a deal. I'm sure many girls do it there. After all lets not forget Kherson is one of the Cities on the AFA (A Foreign Affair) tour and has been for many years - I'm sure the girls that attend those evenings are much higher on the radar than some girl with a guy through other more discreet channels. In any case if she refuses to see me I am sure there are plenty of other girls there willing to, perhaps I will remind her of that ;D
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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #88 on: July 16, 2017, 02:59:32 AM »
I am still not convinced by this

You should be .. typical Trench stubbornness 

In any case if she refuses to see me I am sure there are plenty of other girls there willing to, perhaps I will remind her of that ;D

Frankly speaking, I don't think you will ...
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Offline BdHvA

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #89 on: July 16, 2017, 03:32:56 AM »
neither of us want to go into previous relationships that much so I think its a general consensus that we are both more comfortable leaving it at that.

So you do not wish to face your mistakes in prior relationships?
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #90 on: July 16, 2017, 05:26:33 AM »
She has not yet asked to visit US. Even if she wants to, she canít get a tourist visa. I am nowhere near asking her to marry me. We are just enjoying ourselves and getting to know each other. I will go back in September. The uproar is more about your girl and less about you living there. She wants to live in UK which is fine but should that be a deal breaker? And she is a shopaholic according to you. She is bad news.

HDL is right. If she truly is in this for you, she won't care where she lives.
Stop thinking with the little head. ;D You are trying to justify bad choices.

A third time and she has no issue with you being there, lol What will the locals be saying!
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #91 on: July 16, 2017, 08:12:01 AM »
A third time and she has no issue with you being there, lol What will the locals be saying!


As I posted above, a woman over 30, particularly one with a child or who is divorced, is not going to elicit the same gossip.  In Ukrainian society, she is done.
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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #92 on: July 16, 2017, 08:20:15 AM »
I am still not convinced by this, sure I can see that people live in far greater density than the UK but is a girl meeting/having a relationship really going to be that big a deal. I'm sure many girls do it there. After all lets not forget Kherson is one of the Cities on the AFA (A Foreign Affair) tour and has been for many years - I'm sure the girls that attend those evenings are much higher on the radar than some girl with a guy through other more discreet channels. In any case if she refuses to see me I am sure there are plenty of other girls there willing to, perhaps I will remind her of that ;D


I don't really care if you're convinced.  This is the reality.  When you have lived in Ukraine and understand the culture intimately, come back and tell me why I'm wrong. 


AFA is a site to scam foreigners, which is not considered a sin/crime/bad thing among Ukrainians.  In fact, it's viewed as clever.
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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #93 on: July 16, 2017, 08:25:39 AM »
HDL, WHERE is the scam from this 'scammer'???

Cause she wants to live in UK?
Cause she wants cloths? She gave him something!!! )))
I didn't know trench's girl arranged vacations(her idea)?
Maybe trench is butt ugly and girl is embarrassed to be amongst friends?

Maybe there is a new definition of 'scammer'?


I am using Trench's definition of "scam". He is willingly parting with money for vacations and clothing. That isn't a scam necessarily. But the fact she doesn't want him in her city and specifically wants to live in the UK are red flags. It doesn't become a true scam until she gets the British equivalent of a green card and she dumps him.


I find it hilarious, though that Trench seems to have issues with paying for meals while on vacation. Unless they had an apartment with kitchen facilities, how else were they going to eat?


So, is he truly being scammed? Don't know and it depends upon ones definition of a scam. Based on my reading of Trench's definition, he is getting scammed. My definition is a little different, but I would have pulled the pin on this girl when she demanded to meet in Kiev instead of Kherson. The fact that there is not much to do in Kherson is irrelevant. My girl lives in a small city in Belarus and there is little to do, but I have been there every trip (living in her flat, with a day in Minsk at both ends of a trip). My girl has been here 3 times and has been to my sleepy little town.


Trench's girl doesn't want him there for a reason. OK, so maybe the first trip they meet in Nikolaev or Odessa with a day trip to Kherson if things look good after a day or two. But a trip to the med for the second trip was probably her idea.


But, LAMan, you have to admit that the is relationship is fishy. Scam or not. If you disagree that is cool also. :)


HDL

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #94 on: July 16, 2017, 08:27:41 AM »
I don't think not wanting to meet in Kherson is a big deal.


I think the demand to be taken care of ("real man") is a red flag, and a sign this woman will not be a good wife.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #95 on: July 16, 2017, 08:36:52 AM »
I don't think not wanting to meet in Kherson is a big deal.


I think the demand to be taken care of ("real man") is a red flag, and a sign this woman will not be a good wife.


But Boe, if the girl was serious, wouldn't she want her family to meet the guy? Granted, I have a small sample size, but I have met the close families of every girl I have flown to meet and I stay in the flat of my current girl. I agree with you on the gossip. The Babushka's gave my girl crap after my first visit. "Why do you want Americanski? Get good Belarusian man!". My girl told them to mind their own business. Of course my gal is much older than Trench's, has a child in university and doesn't give a sh*t about the town gossip.


Agree with you about the "real man" comments. In particular how it is used in manipulative manner.


HDL

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #96 on: July 16, 2017, 08:39:45 AM »
How serious is it if they've spent a total of two weeks together?  Way too early, from her point of view.
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  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: Looking 3-5 years
  • Trips: 4 - 10
Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #97 on: July 16, 2017, 08:45:32 AM »
Yet she is set on UK. I agree with HDL in that two Red Flags have now appeared and I want to find out more about girl before spending any more time & money on her.

I could fly to Kherson later on and if she doesn't check out to my liking call up other girls who may.

HDL, yes of course I expect her to eat but it was often the most expensive thing on the menu, i.e Steak Diana and sometimes more than we needed too. Also she had some money but for every single item it was me dipping my hand into my wad again, it kind of got irritating after a while.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #98 on: July 16, 2017, 08:47:40 AM »
Culturally, a woman there would never pay on a date.  Especially if she is sleeping with the man.  So her having money is irrelevant.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline Boethius

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  • Status: No Selection
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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #99 on: July 16, 2017, 08:50:02 AM »
Still, you are wasting your time.  She is not wife material.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

 

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