Trench's Questions and Philosophies

[Maxx2]

so........ you mean your finances are so bad you cant even support a woman coming to visit?
then, how do you intend to take care of a woman if she decides to move in with you?
All your cheap comments about finances is starting to clear up a bit here, and the reason why you want her to start working day 1 and take care of herself..

Just put her to work as a cashier at the local liquor store and perhaps a job cleaning office buildings at 4 AM. That would work. These are Rooska women. They are the human version of the honey badger. Honey badgers don't care and neither would they.

[Boethius]

No my finances are fine but the whole process is a lot of form filling and paperwork on my side. It's just far easier for me to jump on a plane and visit her in Ukraine all visa free. I don't see why there has to be such an ordeal about it all.

So she wasn't important enough to you to fill out a bit of paperwork. 

[msmob]

I wish to 'defend' Trench !

The UK visa path for a young, unemployed and property-less  FSU W is pretty hopeless

To get a visa Trench would need to put money into her account - regularly - and guarantee her return - showing more than enough funds to look after her and keep her

He would not have got the lass in - unless she built up funds over - say 6 months..AND they showed a durable relationship

[Trenchcoat]

I wish to 'defend' Trench !

The UK visa path for a young, unemployed and property-less  FSU W is pretty hopeless

To get a visa Trench would need to put money into her account - regularly - and guarantee her return - showing more than enough funds to look after her and keep her

He would not have got the lass in - unless she built up funds over - say 6 months..AND they showed a durable relationship

Wow! Mobers it really is Christmas I never thought I would see the day when you would come to my defense on this forum I had dreamed and hoped but finally this day is here When I read first line I thought it was going to be the start of a back handed slap but no you really did come through for me I shall treasure this moment always

[msmob]

Wow! Mobers it really is Christmas I never thought I would see the day when you would come to my defense on this forum I had dreamed and hoped but finally this day is here When I read first line I thought it was going to be the start of a back handed slap but no you really did come through for me I shall treasure this moment always

'Defense' .....?   That is the second time you've used US English spelling / or a US-terminology that NO Brit would use.....

Hmm...

[Davo2]

I wish to 'defend' Trench !

The UK visa path for a young, unemployed and property-less  FSU W is pretty hopeless

To get a visa Trench would need to put money into her account - regularly - and guarantee her return - showing more than enough funds to look after her and keep her

He would not have got the lass in - unless she built up funds over - say 6 months..AND they showed a durable relationship

It's funny the conversation has gone in this direction today. Last week I was expecting to be meeting her at the airport this afternoon. Now all I have planned is a BBQ at a mates and a few beers . Why??? ... Her visa was denied, despite covering all bases except the fact we  hadn't met in  person. I could accept this if that's the reason, but where she failed was infuriating!!!
She has an excellent well paying job by Russian  standards and a letter stating she was required to return to work in 12 days. She had plenty of cash in her bank. She showed she owned property in Russia. Also she has a letter from a girlfriend who worked for my government in Russia and now my country, vouching for her character. She has two children in her care and she showed she had travelled to other countries on her passport.
My embassy in Moscow obviously discovered our secret plan.... She was going to give up her executive job, leave her luxury apartment and abandon her children so she could hide out here and pick up seasonal work as an illegal fruit picker  ......
So yes it was denied as she didn't show enough proof that she would return  home, in reality this was probably the strongest aspect of her application. Basically I suspect because  I was going to provide transport and accommodation, we  put our relationship as friends, but never met and it was denied.
So now we are meeting in Indonesia, in several  months and if all goes well Russia several months after that.

[Trenchcoat]

'Defense' .....?   That is the second time you've used US English spelling / or a US-terminology that NO Brit would use.....

Hmm...

I speak UK English my mobile speaks US English. What can I say, I don't always get my way

[Trenchcoat]

So yes it was denied as she didn't show enough proof that she would return  home, in reality this was probably the strongest aspect of her application. Basically I suspect because  I was going to provide transport and accommodation, we  put our relationship as friends, but never met, it was denied. So now we are meeting in Indonesia in several  months and if all goes well Russia several months after that.

Exactly as you and Mobers demonstrate it can be a real problem. Granted different countries but similar visa systems. I've visited her etc so have that to put forward assuming they accept the evidence I put forward on this. Even then as Moby points out its not an easy task made almost impossible because of her situation. Over time it might be possible to work something out but it's a long shot and no walk in the park. I tried explaining this to her till I was blue I'm the face but she just repeatedly refused to accept it.

[ML]

It's funny the conversation has gone in this direction today. Last week I was expecting to be meeting her at the airport this afternoon. Now all I have planned is a BBQ at a mates and a few beers . Why??? ... Her visa was denied, despite covering all bases except the fact we  hadn't met in  person. I could accept this if that's the reason, but where she failed was infuriating!!!
She has an excellent well paying job by Russian  standards and a letter stating she was required to return to work in 12 days. She had plenty of cash in her bank. She showed she owned property in Russia. Also she has a letter from a girlfriend who worked for my government in Russia and now my country, vouching for her character. She has two children in her care and she showed she had travelled to other countries on her passport.
My embassy in Moscow obviously discovered our secret plan.... She was going to give up her executive job, leave her luxury apartment and abandon her children so she could hide out here and pick up seasonal work as an illegal fruit picker  ......
So yes it was denied as she didn't show enough proof that she would return  home, in reality this was probably the strongest aspect of her application. Basically I suspect because  I was going to provide transport and accommodation, we  put our relationship as friends, but never met and it was denied.
So now we are meeting in Indonesia, in several  months and if all goes well Russia several months after that.

Weren't you warned to have her avoid telling of relationship (of any kind) with  a man in your country?

We have issued plenty of warnings here over the years on this topic.

[alex330]

Not sure on the whole VISA thing. I was under the impression it was a thing of the past for the most part. All the women we know get them pretty easily these days. My wife has never even had her passport stamped entering the UK. They just motion her right through.

[Davo2]

Weren't you warned to have her avoid telling of relationship (of any kind) with  a man in your country?

We have issued plenty of warnings here over the years on this topic.

 Yes!!! And I had even done some of the  warning. What let me down was calling the visa department and being told she had an excellent case and it didn't matter that we hadn't met, it's better to be honest.... That was bad advice. Next attempt we should have spent almost a month together (if we get along after our first meeting) and I won't risk it, I'll hire a visa specialist to write her application

As it turns out, it was probably for the best. Yesterday my car did a rear engine seal (we planned to drive 4000km ) Last night my house air conditioner stopped working and an hour ago my father was admitted into hospital with suspected blood poisoning, he's not in a good way.

A romantic week on a tropical island seems a much better idea than what I originally planned 

[JayH]

Yes!!! And I had even done some of the  warning. What let me down was calling the visa department and being told she had an excellent case and it didn't matter that we hadn't met, it's better to be honest.... That was bad advice. Next attempt we should have spent almost a month together (if we get along after our first meeting) and I won't risk it, I'll hire a visa specialist to write her application

Now here is the catch --   now the dept will say-- "oh a relationship -- she will overstay visa conditions and not return" !!   Catch22 is alive and well
Ya gotta remember-- these are public servants making these decisons !

A FWIW BTW --if anyone has not read Catch 22 -- I highly recommend  it --just make sure you slog through the early part to actually "get" the humour. This book will make you laugh out loud.

[Trenchcoat]

Not sure on the whole VISA thing. I was under the impression it was a thing of the past for the most part. All the women we know get them pretty easily these days. My wife has never even had her passport stamped entering the UK. They just motion her right through.

If she has had one before then they probably consider the fact that she visited and returned to home country within the allotted time presumably. Thus proving that she had the intention to return, the more she does this the harder it would be for border control to turn her down on that basis unless they found something to the contrary or chose to get anal with something out of a sudden bout of fussiness. Possible your ladies are quite wealthy in their own right, etc. I'm not saying it would be impossible to get a girl like I was with through if application put in right and preparation of paperwork sufficient but as Moby correctly say "The UK visa path for a young, unemployed and property-less FSU W is pretty hopeless". Now no doubt they use a tick box style formula to match every application off against so to avoid being subjective but no doubt also some perhaps give a little more leniency depending on who see your application though theoretically it is no doubt supposed to be consistent across the board.

The girl I was with did not believe a word of any of this, she was adamant that getting a visa for her would not be a problem. The number of times I tried to go over the problems with her but to no avail I think maybe my earlier suggesting Cyprus might have made her distrust anything I say with hindsight. I think distrust in the relationship on both sides was yet another issue and most probably we are probably both straight up just reading distrust in perfectly reasonable decisions.   

[BillyB]

I know plenty of quiet guys who are happily married to their (attractive ) woman...

Quiet guys are usually happy to be married to anybody. Apparently you don't know how their wives feel.

[Davo2]

Now here is the catch --   now the dept will say-- "oh a relationship -- she will overstay visa conditions and not return" !!   Catch22 is alive and well
Ya gotta remember-- these are public servants making these decisons !

A FWIW BTW --if anyone has not read Catch 22 -- I highly recommend  it --just make sure you slog through the early part to actually "get" the humour. This book will make you laugh out loud.

Ohh... the fun and games I have ahead of me!!! 

Honestly, I've lived in my city for 22 years and the only Russians I've met are  my elderly  neighbours. I can imagine Chinese,  Asian  and even British, may blend in and be difficult to find, but a stunningly attractive Russian woman, with a thick accent would stand out like dogs balls and be tracked down in a matter of days, especially in my state with a small Russian population.
It seems one might have to get engaged before you might have a chance of bringing her here.

[alex330]

If she has had one before then they probably consider the fact that she visited and returned to home country within the allotted time presumably.

Possible your ladies are quite wealthy

The girl I was with did not believe a word of any of this, she was adamant that getting a visa for her would not be a problem.

Yes, most have already traveled and have stamps, so at that point it is much easier. Well, my wife flies into a private FBO, so different, but the UK is one of the very few countries that has not checked her. A bit odd.

I do believe you guys that some are still turned down for x reason, but not like it used to be. Most go visit the guys these days instead of the man going to her town.

She did not believe it because all the women talk to each other. I bet she has friends that have visited and she probably thought you were lying or hiding something.

[msmob]

Quiet guys are usually happy to be married to anybody.

'Sure' they are...

Apparently you don't know how their wives feel.

'Sure', BillyB and you do...

[Trenchcoat]

Ohh... the fun and games I have ahead of me!!! 

It seems one might have to get engaged before you might have a chance of bringing her here.

Exactly the situation I was in with my last girl and the UK, in the UK while there are conditions she must meet on top off marriage (like taking an English Language test, etc) the hurdles are generally easier gotten over, so marriage in such a situation. Plus your doing it for the long term with a visit it similar if not greater hassle for a short stay then have to do it again for marriage in the future. So that was a lot of the reason I proposed to meet her in Kherson or another country and live together for a while so we knew how we would get on more better actually living together before marriage. Apparently though there are all sorts of oddities of being in her home city and the like that make this a no-go with many a Ukrainian/FSU girl. Common sense though it seems to us men, lol.

So there I am checkmate, I cannot get her to see reason in how the situation is from my end try as I might. I mean the girl you are going out to meet your going to want to get to know her better before marriage. Hell, even if you rushed straight headlong into marriage the wedding would have to take place somewhere, if your girl is anything like many FSW then her hometown will be out of the running, lol. FSW seem devoid of reason on this matter though, at least mine was, I hope yours won't go that way as other wise where is one supposed to get together, the moon!

[msmob]

Exactly the situation I was in with my last girl and the UK, in the UK while there are conditions she must meet on top off marriage (like taking an English Language test, etc) the hurdles are generally easier gotten over, so marriage in such a situation. Plus your doing it for the long term with a visit it similar if not greater hassle for a short stay then have to do it again for marriage in the future. So that was a lot of the reason I proposed to meet her in Kherson or another country and live together for a while so we knew how we would get on more better actually living together before marriage. Apparently though there are all sorts of oddities of being in her home city and the like that make this a no-go with many a Ukrainian/FSU girl. Common sense though it seems to us men, lol.

So there I am checkmate, I cannot get her to see reason in how the situation is from my end try as I might. I mean the girl you are going out to meet your going to want to get to know her better before marriage. Hell, even if you rushed straight headlong into marriage the wedding would have to take place somewhere, if your girl is anything like many FSW then her hometown will be out of the running, lol. FSW seem devoid of reason on this matter though, at least mine was, I hope yours won't go that way as other wise where is one supposed to get together, the moon!

Trench,

I see you are back to making 'BS' excuses ...

You had met her twice and were already complaining about her 'needs' re shopping.....    It was a trainwreck waiting to happen.

A more mature lass would have realised that getting the first UK visa - if not employed - would mean proving commitment and durability on both your parts.

Finally, you need to use the past tense in her regard - she has moved on and 're-advertising' her availability

[JayH]

Ohh... the fun and games I have ahead of me!!! 
 tracked down in a matter of days, especially in my state with a small Russian population.

It seems one might have to get engaged before you might have a chance of bringing her here.

Tracked -- this is public servants we are talking about  -- nothing happens that fast !!


Engaged--  then the paperwork nightmare really starts !! What is worse -- guess who you get to deal with again ! Yep-the very same public "service" !

Can she swim? It seems that all the advantages goes to the swimmers -- not the legitimate applicants !!

[Trenchcoat]

Yes, most have already traveled and have stamps, so at that point it is much easier. Well, my wife flies into a private FBO, so different, but the UK is one of the very few countries that has not checked her. A bit odd.

I do believe you guys that some are still turned down for x reason, but not like it used to be. Most go visit the guys these days instead of the man going to her town.

She did not believe it because all the women talk to each other. I bet she has friends that have visited and she probably thought you were lying or hiding something.

How did you know that? Lol, your dead right, you've hit it square on the bullseye. Yeah she though I was lying and hiding something its exactly how she was with me. She came out with the, 'you just don't want me to visit because of ....blah, blah, blah, - accusations of having kids, being married, etc. She just could not get away from this though no matter how much I tried to convince her otherwise. She would only accept seeing my life in the UK in person as proof, Huh.

Your right again that women talk to each other and I didn't realise how powerful an influence that can be on a girl. She apparently has a lady friend that lives in the UK with the guy she met, she's married to him, that's how she got the idea to date a foreign guy so she tells me. Anyway, her friend I think is a fair bit older in her thirties at least I believe and because she told her 'I got in ok (whether it was for visit or marriage who knows) hence the same will be true for you also' - well something along those lines. Anyhow  of course that makes me the liar as firstly I'm a guy which obviously makes me a greater 'player' than Hugh Heffner and secondly how could her friend that she has know for longer than me and being a female automatically being on her side be wrong. Her brief look on the UK borders agency website told her only what she wanted to see and could not register all the problems that I tried to tell her would likely/almost certainly come up. She would not accept she was not in a good position to get through the visa process, that was my responsibility apparently. Anyway the last message I received from her was a demand of 'where is my visa and tickets, I come to you when you have them' For some as you rightly state it can happen that simply but for most low paid peeps in FSU no way are they just going to let in millions of Russians by rubber stamping visas like there was no tomorrow. I think she just refuses to ignore the reality of the situation she has got it into her head that is how it is and no one is going to change her mind.

Flying into private airport terminals are no doubt a bit different as often used by the rich and famous so if shes able to go through there they probably take it as read that she's more than wealthy enough. I doubt that is an option for even many of us WM, lol.   

[msmob]

Flying into private airport terminals are no doubt a bit different as often used by the rich and famous so if shes able to go through there they probably take it as read that she's more than wealthy enough. I doubt that is an option for even many of us WM, lol.

Trench, still referring to this lass in the  present tense ?

Remember - your ex can easily travel to Schengen nations, now - that includes France.  Folks regularly fly from Le  Touquet to small UK airports.  You must declare who is on board and their nationality.  Same for yachts... though I can see how this could be abused.

http://www.privatefly.com/private-jets/smallprop-aircraft-hire/Piper-PA32-Saratoga.html

[JayH]

Trench,

I see you are back to making 'BS' excuses ...

You had met her twice and were already complaining about her 'needs' re shopping.....    It was a trainwreck waiting to happen.

A more mature lass would have realised that getting the first UK visa - if not employed - would mean proving commitment and durability on both your parts.

Finally, you need to use the past tense in her regard - she has moved on and 're-advertising' her availability

Note  Trenchcoat has hijacked another  thread == made it about him again with posts not appropriate to that thread .

I said it before -- but ALL  his posts made anywhere ought to be moved to his very own thread -- after all-- he keeps repeating the same nonsense

Moby--- chances are ( and this is presuming any of what he has said is actually true) that she smelt the tight arse rat he is and was applying her own testing system  eg she wanted to know what his living circumstances were/are .   And/or what his real intentions were.  And all that presumes she was the slightest bit interested in him-- which I highly doubt.

Honestly -- such a pile of such triviality hardly warrants reexamining   -- he is just too thick to "get " the points repeatedly made directly to him.

[Trenchcoat]

Trench, still referring to this lass in the  present tense ?

Remember - your ex can easily travel to Schengen nations, now - that includes France.  Folks regularly fly from Le  Touquet to small UK airports.  You must declare who is on board and their nationality.  Same for yachts... though I can see how this could be abused.

http://www.privatefly.com/private-jets/smallprop-aircraft-hire/Piper-PA32-Saratoga.html

Yeah, she briefly suggested anywhere in EU (Schengen) apart from Cyprus as she though Cyprus economy was in a hole like Ukraine. I know it was but it looked like to me this had mostly all been gotten over and it was by no means in any sort off way like Ukraine's economy. Anyway, I thought this was a breakthrough so I suggested somewhere like Copenhagen, as it has a high percentage of English speaker and I had been there so know its a nice place, think a few Russians there also. Well she backtracked on this don't know why but from what Alex has said it I wouldn't mind betting its her 'friend(s)' putting their bit in and messing things up.

I'm not currently communicating with her and haven't been for a few months but still have her on Skype, etc. hence the tense.

[Trenchcoat]

Note  Trenchcoat has hijacked another  thread == made it about him again with posts not appropriate to that thread .

I said it before -- but ALL  his posts made anywhere ought to be moved to his very own thread -- after all-- he keeps repeating the same nonsense

Moby--- chances are ( and this is presuming any of what he has said is actually true) that she smelt the tight arse rat he is and was applying her own testing system  eg she wanted to know what his living circumstances were/are .   And/or what his real intentions were.  And all that presumes she was the slightest bit interested in him-- which I highly doubt.

Honestly -- such a pile of such triviality hardly warrants reexamining   -- he is just too thick to "get " the points repeatedly made directly to him.

No it is you who doesn't get it Jay, this is not about my relationship (or however its deemed) with this girl per-say its about the perspectives and interactions WM and FSW have of each other. If we fail to understand the FSW mentality, perspective and what is happening countless mistakes can happen over and over again. The stuff we are discussing here is valuable not only to OP in this endeavour but also many lurkers. If OP is aware of this stuff when he goes to the FSU to see a girl then he may do a lot better as a result.

Have you ever asked yourself why you are still without success years into this endeavour? All of what we are discussing here may help you

I think we are making huge leaps and bounds here beyond previous discussions of what was going on here. Its an incredibly complex topic and I'm not sure whether you have the capacity to absorb precisely all what is being discussed here. This isn't a exercise for neanderthals to go and club a girl and bring her back to his cave but a need to understand what all these interactions really mean in her mind/world.