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Author Topic: Do Girls from Russia and Ukraine date Communists or people on the left?  (Read 5241 times)

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Offline Darth_Budda

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Yes... I married one...

I understand many of the men on this forum are on the right...
But even far left Atheists can be accepted..



 
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Caleb Maupin

Online BillyB

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Absolutely. When the USSR was thriving and Communism was the thing, people got married. Many became later became disillusioned with Communism but for the remaining fans, they consist of either male or female and would prefer to marry a person with the same beliefs.
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Offline Muzh

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Ask the Ruskies from Brighton Beach. Take a day trip and ask them. Make sure you are a fast runner.
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Even during Soviet days, my wife never dated a member of the Communist Party.

Offline Olga_Mouse

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Do Girls from Russia and Ukraine date Communists or people on the left?

Why not - if a man puts family above his political views?

After all, there must be something to talk about in the evening after dinner, apart from the weather forecast for tomorrow... So why not talking about politics and economics, then?
"If I get through this job without completely losing my mind, it will be a miracle of Biblical proportions" [Commander Susan Ivanova, Earth Alliance space station Babylon 5]

Offline Boethius

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You're responding to an old thread. The OP is married and his wife is in the US with him.


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Offline Olga_Mouse

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Do Girls from Russia and Ukraine date Communists or people on the left?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2019, 11:55:17 AM »

You're responding to an old thread.


Yep, I've read the date of original post. So what?



The OP is married and his wife is in the US with him.
Good for them!

Would you please explain how can their marriage possibly prevent me from posting in this thread? I do not see a logical connection, really...
"If I get through this job without completely losing my mind, it will be a miracle of Biblical proportions" [Commander Susan Ivanova, Earth Alliance space station Babylon 5]

Offline Boethius

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I don't recall posting that you are prevented from posting on this thread.  However, you are responding to a post made almost two years ago by a poster who, shortly after that post, visited Ukraine (TR photos posted here) and married.  It just seems illogical to me, partly because I doubt we will ever have an American communist post here again.


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Offline Darth_Budda

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You're responding to an old thread. The OP is married and his wife is in the US with him.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Still married,,,  Still a Communist.. Busy making little Communists....

Yes we American Communists are rare... But we are a spirited group..
 I am not sure why their are not more,,, TBH...

NEP type Communists,, you know... 


I will be honest,,,  my wife is actually not very interested in politics,,,
She does respect her grandfather a lot.. 
He is still a "Soviet" and Communist to this day...

So, my political rants remind her of grandpa... lol

I love one story she tells...

She asked him one day,, why he carried a gun at work...  He said to kill fascists..
He had some cool stories of cuba in the 60's...  cool guy...
 
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Offline Boethius

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My family, and husband's were victims of all those "cool communists".  Most of husband's family was liquidated.  Mine were fortunate, as they lived in Western Ukraine, so were only sent to gulags.


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Depends where one refers to in the FSU..

Some Russians miss the 'stability ' of the Soviet Union ...Some even respect Stalin.. Some dream of Moscow being at the centre of a mighty 'brotherhood' of nations, like 'the good 'ol days'..

Other nations from that former 'britherhood' have been independent from Moscow and have seen what happens, if they seek stronger ties, elsewhere..

I have not met any woman who is in the latter camp... They may exist in younger women...who do not remember the Soviet Union..



No to Brexit, Yes to a People's Vote on Brexit, THEN a General Election

Online Faux Pas

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Still married,,,  Still a Communist.. Busy making little Communists....

Yes we American Communists are rare... But we are a spirited group..
 I am not sure why their are not more,,, TBH...


NEP type Communists,, you know... 


I will be honest,,,  my wife is actually not very interested in politics,,,
She does respect her grandfather a lot.. 
He is still a "Soviet" and Communist to this day...

So, my political rants remind her of grandpa... lol

I love one story she tells...

She asked him one day,, why he carried a gun at work...  He said to kill fascists..
He had some cool stories of cuba in the 60's...  cool guy...
 

Because communism doesn't work.

Offline Darth_Budda

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Maybe but it seems to work in China...  I mean you can't really just ignore the fact that they have made huge advances over the years...

Even in the SU they made huge advances in a very short time.
They went from a largely uneducated rural farm society, to become a true superpower.. 
all while fighting civil wars and world wars..

I don't think the history of communism is relegated to history..
But Free Market Capitalism is dead...... It has been for a very long time...
All governments interfere in business,, picking winners and losers..

We need a government of action to fight for working families!
Caleb Maupin

Offline Darth_Budda

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My family, and husband's were victims of all those "cool communists".  Most of husband's family was liquidated.  Mine were fortunate, as they lived in Western Ukraine, so were only sent to gulags.


This post was composed without the aid of google.


I understand how you feel,,,   but Communism did not kill them,,, people did...
We need a government of action to fight for working families!
Caleb Maupin

Offline Boethius

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Maybe but it seems to work in China...  I mean you can't really just ignore the fact that they have made huge advances over the years...

Even in the SU they made huge advances in a very short time.
They went from a largely uneducated rural farm society, to become a true superpower.. 
all while fighting civil wars and world wars..

I don't think the history of communism is relegated to history..
But Free Market Capitalism is dead...... It has been for a very long time...
All governments interfere in business,, picking winners and losers..


China is not truly communist at present.


The huge advances in the USSR were made by forcing people to work, almost to death.  Any country that did what Stalnist Russia did would industrialize rapidly.


How do you account for both countries killing tens of millions of citizens in the name of communist ideology>


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Online SteveInBoston

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China and SU are not communist.  They call themselves that, but are not.  Both started as communists to garner public support to overthrow their respective governments, but quickly turned into Totalitarian nations.

While sticking to tenants of communism both nations struggled economically and socially.  The main reason some people are so nostalgic of the old soviet times was not because they were better off, but it was because everyone suffered more or less equally and no one was better than them, except for the high soviet officials.  And, if they remained fiercely loyal to the communist party and was somewhat competent in their profession, they may have a chance at a promotion.

Russia gained economic power after it privatized industry and embraced capitalism - not free market capitalism, but a type of totalitarian capitalism.  China did the same. 

China was a relatively poor nation until the late 70's, when it opened up to the world market.  China is successful now when their economy is similar to the western industrial age period - immensely successful companies owned by super rich families.  The owners of these companies are not mandated to share their profits with their brother communists who slave in their factories.  About the only time the owners get in trouble with the government is if their greed and avarice create a huge scandal (lead paint in childrens toys, for example) that it "embarrases the chinese nation".


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Maybe but it seems to work in China...  I mean you can't really just ignore the fact that they have made huge advances over the years...


China embraced dollars from Capitalist nations. Nixon allowed America to do business with China. Bill Clinton gave them favorable nation status. China depends on others to get where they're at. Take away the money, you take away their ability to advance. They need America.
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Offline Darth_Budda

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How do you account for both countries killing tens of millions of citizens in the name of communist ideology>



Most of it is simply pro capitalist propaganda... To be honest...

How many people die everyday under capitalism because of hunger, or lack of medical care?
Seriously,,,,  how many people died so that america could bring capitalism to Iraq and Libya?

Democratic control of the economy for the benefit of all people is not a bad goal..


One last thing,, 

Who are we to judge China?  They say they are "communists" because they are trying to build communism..
But first you must have socialism...  Which is what they have....


Serious question...   Is Ukraine and Russia better today than they were in the 1980's?   
Maybe for some people...  But what about all the people who do no have a better life under capitalism?

Seriously,,,,  in the 1980's Ukraine and Russia were a global power...  Now Ukraine is a basket case..
With fake nazi's imposing their view on the rest of the country... The Russian speaking population is being forced to speak ukrainian... The poor of west Ukraine is going to the east to kill the poor of east ukraine... all while the oligarchs get rich,, and the roads are not getting fixed or people are not getting proper medical care...









   

We need a government of action to fight for working families!
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Offline Boethius

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Most of it is simply pro capitalist propaganda... To be honest...How many people die everyday under capitalism because of hunger, or lack of medical care?Seriously,,,,  how many people died so that america could bring capitalism to Iraq and Libya? Democratic control of the economy for the benefit of all people is not a bad goal..One last thing,,  Who are we to judge China?  They say they are "communists" because they are trying to build communism..But first you must have socialism...  Which is what they have....Serious question...   Is Ukraine and Russia better today than they were in the 1980's?   Maybe for some people...  But what about all the people who do no have a better life under capitalism? Seriously,,,,  in the 1980's Ukraine and Russia were a global power...  Now Ukraine is a basket case.. With fake nazi's imposing their view on the rest of the country... The Russian speaking population is being forced to speak ukrainian... The poor of west Ukraine is going to the east to kill the poor of east ukraine... all while the oligarchs get rich,, and the roads are not getting fixed or people are not getting proper medical care...

Soviet archives prove that millions were murdered.  Over 2 million communist party members.  Up to 7 million peasants deliberately starved to death.  Over 1 million Bashkirs.  I could go on.

Your statement on Ukraine and Russia being a "global power" is ludicrous.  Yes, the USSR was a military power.  But I lived in, and travelled the USSR in the 1980's.  The abacus was still being used in stores to calculate purchase prices and change.  People lined up for hours to buy food, and hope that toiletries were available (constant shortages - one month soap, another, shampoo, a third, toothpaste)  The only thing that worked, without fail, was the KGB apparatus, and I have personal experience with that, as well.

As for today, no one forces Ukrainians not to speak Russian.  Walk around central Kyiv one day to 'test" your theory.  The only difference now is, government services are in Ukrainian.  Given over three hundred years of forced Russification, including in the Soviet period when the Ukrainian alphabet was Russified, Ukrainian writers were executed and, in more "lenient" times, jailed for writing on Ukrainian themes (executions - 1929-1934, and those writers' works were banned completely until around 1988, mass arrests in 1964-66 and 1972-1974.  The last political prisoner in a gulag, who died there, was a Ukrainian poet, translator, and literary critic, who died in that gulag in late 1985).  One could not attend university in Ukraine in Soviet times without complete fluency in Russian.  Ukraine was denigrated as a "hick" language.  So the current position is far more lenient.  I have relatives in Kyiv whose elementary school aged children attend a Russian language school.

None of this was invented by the West.  It's reality.

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« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 09:44:06 AM by Boethius »
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Online SteveInBoston

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Serious question...   Is Ukraine and Russia better today than they were in the 1980's?   

Yes.


Seriously,,,,  in the 1980's Ukraine and Russia were a global power...  Now Ukraine is a basket case..
With fake nazi's imposing their view on the rest of the country... The Russian speaking population is being forced to speak ukrainian... The poor of west Ukraine is going to the east to kill the poor of east ukraine... all while the oligarchs get rich,, and the roads are not getting fixed or people are not getting proper medical care...

Interesting.  Sounds just like the propaganda directly from DPR and LPR.

Have you spent time in either place?  I mean Eastern Ukraine and Western Ukraine.

Wifey just came back from visiting her parents in DPR and listed to the usual drivel about the "evil" West. 

I was able to go as close as I could - a town about 10 km from the border zone.  I have lived in Kharkiv this past winter.  It included several visits to the clinics for tests and x-rays.  People were getting "proper medical care".  The roads are in rough shape, some even horrible.  But they are getting fixed - I've passed 7 different road construction zones. 
 

Realize that USSR was a "global" power because they had nukes and a huge military.  No real economic power, no social power.  And it was so "great" that it collapsed.


Communism doesn't work, not because the idea is bad, but because people are bad.  A person can be good or bad, but in general the population tends to be selfish and self-centered.  No one is willing to share their salary with 9 people who don't work, unless forced to.  No one is willing to sweat and struggle to make a company or business great, unless they get to keep the earnings and benefits for themselves. 


Also, about the "Russian speaking population forced to speak Ukrainian" comment.   I take you are perfectly fine with "Polish speaking population forced to speak Russian"/"Ukrainian speaking population forced to speak Russian"/"Romanian speaking population forced to speak Russian"/"Bulgarian speaking population forced to speak Russian"/"Slovakian speaking population forced to speak Russian".... the list goes on...


Offline Boethius

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China and SU are not communist.  They call themselves that, but are not.  Both started as communists to garner public support to overthrow their respective governments, but quickly turned into Totalitarian nations.

While sticking to tenants of communism both nations struggled economically and socially.  The main reason some people are so nostalgic of the old soviet times was not because they were better off, but it was because everyone suffered more or less equally and no one was better than them, except for the high soviet officials.  And, if they remained fiercely loyal to the communist party and was somewhat competent in their profession, they may have a chance at a promotion.

I disagree about the nostalgia.  For most Soviet citizens, life in the USSR was stable.  They didn't have a lot of things, but everyone had a job and a place to live,   Healthcare sucked, but it was free.  Education was free.  Basic food staples were heavily subsidized, although food security was not universal.  That was life for most, but not all, Soviet citizens. 

Competence had zero to do with promotion in Soviet society.  One first, had to belong to the right class (the working class) and prove fealty to the system, starting with doing tasks for the party.

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« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 10:31:17 AM by Boethius »
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Offline Boethius

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I understand how you feel,,,   but Communism did not kill them,,, people did...


Yes.  People who claimed they were killing them in the name of communism.


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Offline Boethius

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Quote
The poor of west Ukraine is going to the east to kill the poor of east ukraine... all while the oligarchs get rich,, and the roads are not getting fixed or people are not getting proper medical care...


You are aware, I assume, that all those oligarchs are the former communist nomenklatura? 


The better half says he is happy this occurred, as we can truly see their real natures.


I think Marx got a lot of things correct, and I can see his influence in a lot of Chinese policy.  However, IMHO, communism is just an economic extension of Messianic Judaism, which probably is why it appealed to so many Russian Jews in the late 19th/early 20th century.  It ignores human nature, at least, at this stage of our evolution, so can't work.


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Offline Darth_Budda

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I spent most of my time in central ukraine..    I was over their in total maybe 9 or 10 month through all my trips,,, 

I can agree to disagree,,,  people have different opinions...

from the people I know in ukraine,,  most prefer their version of Surzhyk or Russian,,,  They find the pure Ukrainian of the far west hard to understand...  Most people were of a mixed background...
Russians, Ukrainians, Polish, Jewish, Georagan, Belarusian and greek....

Support of the war in any form was low,,, In fact they have no problem vacationing in crimea..

I meet a varing group of people through my travels,,,  Village farmers, bee keepers, city gopnik's, school teachers, mechanics, i little of every one...

Rode the bus,,,  until I bought my Lada...   I speak to my wife everyday...  Not sure if that allows me to repeat what I have observed...

The ukraine some people and the news talk about on here,, the Super Ukrainian Nationalists...
I just have not seen....

I am not saying it's not their... But from my experience,,, I can say Ukraine is a country full of many different groups of people with different views on Ukraines past and future based on their personal experiences...

I have never been to east ukraine,, but I know an american that fight for the DPR...He post news you don't see in the west..
The civilian houses destroyed,, schools shelled, the many non combatants killed..

I am not going to get into a big debate to day,, BBqing over wood ukrainian style soon,,,

But if people take anything of value from what I write,,, It should be that their is many types of people every where,,
We have more in common than we have that divides us... 

We need a government of action to fight for working families!
Caleb Maupin

Offline Boethius

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Almost no one in Ukraine speaks "pure" Russian.  They almost all speak surzhik, and it's not a language.  My husband's family is from St. Petersburg on one side, Moscow on the other.  They ran to Ukraine to avoid being liquidated.  Therefore, my husband has always spoken pure Russian, unmixed by Ukrainian words, although with a Kyiv accent (though he can speak any accent - Moscow, St. Petersburg, the Volga, Siberian, etc.).  He refused to learn surzhik and said it's an ungrammatical mish mash.  As he lived in Ukraine, he also learned Ukrainian, and speaks a "pure" Ukrainian - no mix with Russian words, and I know this because I am fluent in Ukrainian.

You are mistaken about people in Central/Eastern Ukraine not being able to speak Ukrainian.  They can speak "pure" Ukrainian.  In fact, in most villages, that's what's spoken, it's when escapees moved to cities and wanted to "fit in" that they started learning surzhik.  So, they become, effectively, illiterate in two languages rather than one.

If anyone can't understand the Ukrainian spoken in Western Ukraine, it's because they don't speak Ukrainian.  The Ukrainian language is the same.  There are some regional words, mostly, in Western Ukraine, due to Polish influences, but it's no different than say, regional words in Montana vs Florida.  (There are also OCS words used in Western Ukraine, predominantly in Boyko and Hutsul regions.) 

The war in Eastern Ukraine was started by the Russians, easily proven and discussed here ad nauseum.  That war was not about language.  It was about control of wealth, on all Ukrainian sides.  Russia had its own reasons for starting the war. 

Civilians have been killed, houses destroyed, etc., on the Ukrainian side as well.


Re mixing - Ukrainian cities historically were Russian and Jewish in the Russian Empire, Polish and Jewish in the Austro-Hungarian Empire.  Ukrainians tended to live in villages, and were minorities in cities.


After starving to death millions of peasants, in order to Russify Ukraine, Eastern Ukraine was flooded with Russians.  That was deliberate.

This post was composed without the aid of google.


« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 10:25:15 AM by Boethius »
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