TverRomance

[BillyB]

 I think you showed your true colors by calling another poster an idiot. 

Mike,

Remember youself calling another poster "sleazy"? At first I valued your posts as just another satisfied customer at Tver Romance but lately your childish and smart ass remarks made me think twice. You've got 15 posts on this forum and all but three has to do with promoting or protecting Tver Romance or slamming Richard at Tver Angels. Do you have anything else to contribute?

[BC]

BC,
I hear what you are saying and tend to agree with you, but it has to be maddening for a man of Richard's high ethics to see another agency owner lie through her teeth. (No matter how cute and sweet she might be.)
KenC

Yes Ken (and RVR) this has to be quite maddening indeed, but believe me in the long run there is no better way than keeping your nose clean and doing it the right way regardless of what others do.  Almost daily, we see huge companies get in trouble for using unethical practices.. It can sometime take time for the dirty wash to come out but it inevitably does come out in the end.

BC,

Like yourself, I met my wife the old fashioned way, not through an agency.  Since we, as you say, not having a bone to pick or a chip in the pot, perhaps see things differently.  I have never spoken to Rvr so I don't have a personal relationship with him, Maxx (Dave), on the other hand is someone I have.  I have the impression of Maxx as someone who is fair, honest, straight forward, and above all, not a back-biter.  I don't believe for a minute he just fabricated those letters he posted from thin air.   I believe he was sent letters generated by the agency for the sole purpose of keeping him interested and renewing his membership in said agency for another term. 

That's called scamming.

jb,

Yes, the letters and Maxx's first hand knowledge (statement from Svetlana) is quite damning and I don't question the veracity of his information.  It would take some quite convincing evidence to prove otherwise.

[Maxx2]

When first came on these boards I remember an incident in regard to LTP or 2BeHappy and their problems with some interpreters that left and formed their own agency in Tver. I remember that Ron Woody the "Witchdoctor" said that he had to fire some of his women interpreters because they were stealing from him. I wondered at the time what they stole. It would be interesting to know the details of this and where did these women go. I know Marc Dayton got took big time recntly by the people that were running his agency up in Ivanhoe (?). They took it from him and he lost allot of money. Richard is so right about this being pool of sharks. But I can add that it's like that everywhere. My previous 2 problems with agencies were no where near Tver. IMO this is a universal problem and Tver is about as safe as the next place. Safer if you consider you have some people there that really will watch your back.   

To the NEW GUYS. I didn't pay too much attention to the above incident at the time. I should have as perhaps learning about the dark side of this business I might have saved myself allot of pain. I was at the time in love affair with my visa-waiting Russian wife and the dear agency that put us together and arranged the marriage. After having my eyes opened I looked back and seen one Red Flag after another with her and them. Please do yourself a big favor and really study this issue.

[Bruno]

Bruno, I shouldn't have called you an idiot.

No offence taken... i have enough experience with forum and this have allow me to have now a strong skin...

It was done as JB said, I thought you should look at the details and not from feelings about Richard and I. And I don't think you think badly of us.

I was looking at the details... all of them... If i only follow my feeling, i will only believe Richard... Simply your post on page 8 have show a possible "conspiracy" between you and Richard for attack TR... since these post, Richard have explain that it have not use the info for attack TR like it was wrote in your communication... so, incident closed...

It's just one of those man things. You know, where men criticise other men. You see this all the time over at RWG, little or no camaraderie. Also as JB observed, watch what happens when a pretty skirt (woman) enters the room. Yeah we are all flawed.

No problem with men attack men... and a pretty skirt have not more influence on my mind ( lesson from my previous marriage ). Same right for both women and men...

[Maxx2]

 Bruno, it sure is an interesting thread. I wonder what's next?

Maxx

[Bruce]

All I know is that I am still waiting for Natasha Deeva to address the allegations seriously.  As far as I am concerned TR at best selectively wrote false letters and at worst made false letters part of their business model.  Natasha, other allegations should be addressed if you want to come clean.  From what I can ascertain based on this thread is that TR may or may not have legitimate women, but a guy is wasting his time writing them.  A newbie may trust that the women you claim on your database is legitimate and go to Tver hoping to meet them.  Jerry is basing his trip on the number of women on your website and faith.  I hope the women are real and you do not let him down.  Natasha, I urge you to honestly and completely come clean.  If not, I am sure it will hurt your business in the long run.

[Maxx2]

Another detail I remember.

During my conversation with Natasha about pulling my profile she asked me a question "Did Svetlana say she did not write that letter?" "Yes she did" I answered. Then it hit me that I probably got Svetlana in trouble and that afterwards she would get a tongue lashing. I felt bad about that but later Richard's interpreter told me or Richard that Svetlana was OK with everything.

One of the things that bothered me was that Svetlana was still cozy with Natasha even though she knew TR had written that letter for her. I wondered if this was common practice for them with her.

How it ended was that after about a month I get another letter from her after I have written her a couple ( I believe it was 2) and the letter I got looked like it had been written in about 5 minutes. I never wrote her back. I do not think Natasha had anything to do with ending this. It was more likely what JB said that she was working on making her life better there and had given up on this business with TR. Her failed K-1 probably had something to do with this also. Her profile was on TR's site for a while, a number of months, maybe a year or so and is now gone.

Maxx  

[Natasha_Deeva]

Hello every one,

Today I would like to say a few words regarding cooperation of Tver agencies in servicing a customer on a “per meeting” basis and why we declined this proposal.

First of all, I feel that the reason behind the attack our agency and I are experiencing here is that certain American men can’t put up with the fact that a few Russian women can start and operate a company that is able to not only provide excellent services to our customers but also have enough faith and strength to do it the way they believe is good and right and stick up for the ideas and beliefs that comprise the philosophy of our business. (In my experience as an interpreter I also have seen cases when a man wasn’t able to take a No from a woman with due respect and pride.)

The fact that Russian women make good marriage partners has become an axiom, but the fact that Russian women are capable of establishing a successful business and that they possess enough experience, competence, intellect and determination to keep it running and growing obviously seems outrageous to some foreign male competitors to the extent of being willing to think anything other than it is achieved by hard work, diligence, positive thinking, faith and friendship.

( A little side note: Richad’s comment that our business is based on lies, stolen database and so on will be addressed in my next posting. I have things to say regarding this. For now I will just say that having an opinion and voicing it persistently can’t serve as a real evidence in any accusations. The same as the fact that the accused side prefers to not respond to the false accusations.)

We have been in business for 3 years as a company. (As individuals we comprise 25+ years of experience in the field of international marriages) During these years we have had our ups and downs which we have learned from and accepted with equal share of common sense, humor and hopes for the future. We continue to develop and instead of spending our time participating in battles we work hard to improve our abilities to service our customers, to make sure they have a successful and pleasant experience in Tver. We take pride in our work and feel genuine joy for every couple that forms through our service. Based on our experience we have developed certain principles that might not be shared by some of our competitors, but will not be deviated from by us. One of them is servicing the so called walk-ins. When we first started operating, we had a few customers who did the “per meeting” thing with us. This practice has not proved to be successful so we discontinued it. We believe that finding a compatible partner is a process, not a one time action. This process takes some time, not one meeting or one day. The success of this process is assured by experience and guidance of the interpreters and staff of the agency. We also openly state on our website that we may not be the agency for you if you think otherwise. Our female clients join a Marriage agency to find a husband, not a Dating club where anybody can meet them for a $50. These were the main reason why we refused the proposal to cooperate with other agencies on that. We feel that we offer a unique product (service) and we choose to work with those customers who choose us and our full service philosophy.   

Thank you for reading this post.

See you soon,
Natasha

P.S. Bruce, I will attend to every allegation, be sure.

[Michelangelo]

First of all, I feel that the reason behind the attack our agency and I are experiencing here is that certain American men can’t put up with the fact that a few Russian women can start and operate a company that is able to not only provide excellent services to our customers but also have enough faith and strength to do it the way they believe is good and right and stick up for the ideas and beliefs that comprise the philosophy of our business.

What an insulting and incorrect thing to say!

I was not mad before, just skeptical.  Now I'm mad!

Natasha, the concerns posted here have nothing to do with your gender.  In fact, I have utmost respect for a woman who runs a marriage agency in Dnepr. Ukraine.  So gender of ownership is not an issue at all, as you suggest above.

My concern was with the allegiantons that men received letters from girls at your agency that the girls did not write.  That is deceptive and wrong.

I don't have proof of that.

But I do have proof that you are a sexest man hater, as evidenced by this post.

Let the buyer beware...

[jinx13]

  Ok, I was one of the guy's praising Ms. Deeva, and the polite and mature way she was handling the accusations. Was I swayed by her pic, of a beautiful woman? Maybe a little , but mostly I was just impressed with her writing skills.

 Yesterday I was sent an e-mail off list from a somebody calling herself a former acqaintance of Natasha, I won't say who it was or the details of her letter, but let's just say she's not a big fan of her or Tver Agency. She claims to have seen first hand the way Natasha ripped off her American clients, and thought of them as "stupid goats" to use and make money from.

 Who knows if this is true, but let's give the lady a chance to defend herself. I am a business owner myself, and I know how stories can get changed, and how people can try and give you a bad rep, based on lies and most of the time a harmless mistake from the business side. I woudn't want people smearing my good name without telling them the facts, and defending myself.

 Rvrwind or Richard seems like a good guy and I have respect for his opinion based on his posts that I have read, but really he is a competitor of Tver Romance, so his comments should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm sure my own competitors in my field of business (retail) wouldn't say very good things about me either, it's business, and sometimes competition can get ugly.

 Anyway, she should post something on Monday, let's give her a chance before burning her at the stake.  - David

[TexasBoar]

Okay, I've stayed out of this till now, not having a chip in the pot or a dog in the fight, myself.  Between TA, TR, and My Dear Women I've only seen about 3 profiles of women in Tver in my age range and to my taste, anyway, lol---the "college town market" is for guys a bit younger than me.

But honestly, this is getting ridiculous. 

But I do have proof that you are a sexest man hater, as evidenced by this post.

Let the buyer beware...

You DO?  Where? Talk about going wildly over the top! Playing the gender card, I agree, is a silly and unproductive move on Natasha's part . . . but it doesn't "prove" she's a "sexest (sp) man hater!"

Geeeeeez.  Touchy much?

  Rvrwind or Richard seems like a good guy and I have respect for his opinion based on his posts that I have read, but really he is a competitor of Tver Romance, so his comments should be taken with a grain of salt.

I'm going to be brutally honest here: Richard has a fine reputation on this board that I am going to charitably assume he's earned.  But nothing of his behavior in this thread or several recent others in anyway encourages me to do business with him. If he wants to build his business, it should be by concentrating on expanding his roster/database and the services he's able to provide, not by flaming, slandering, and impugning his competition, his industry, and his customers every chance he gets.  Who needs that crap?

~Boar

[jinx13]

Ahh, she posted already.... Natasha, I think you are confusing American and European men with Russian guys. We are used to women being strong and having their own career, you should know this. This is not a sexist issue, I think most of us have great respect for a woman that is intelligent and business savvy.

 I used Anastasya Agency in Volgograd/Volzhsky and I was very impressed with Nastya and the way she handles her business. I think it's a great business opportunity for women in Russia, and many men like dealing with a woman when it comes to finding a partner. A woman understands the wants and needs of another woman more than a man does. I know I had many talks with Nastya and many e-mails and shared things with her that I probably would not have with a man.

 Anyway, just thought you should know that, and put that thought from your mind about men being threatened by a strong woman. Looking forward to your future posts and hopefully you will start to answer some of these allegations.  - David

[Maxx2]

Strong women

I like strong women who have courage and ethics. Svetlana starting her own business really impressed me. I am an entrepreneur myself and when I heard about her starting a business I started my dream about what kind of life we might have together. I sent her a photo of my, at that the time, 75 year old mother who runs the same type of business Svetlana does. In the background of this photo was my mother's professional sewing machines and the many colors spools of thread. My dream for Svetlana and her son was this (I know guys this is corny but we all dream) my mother is considering retiring and I would buy this business for Svetlana. I would encourage her to keep her business in Russia going and perhaps there would be a way to have them benefit each other. I talked with the woman who cuts my hair. She was a professional model and did work modeling for bridal gown designers among others. So that gave me some ideas. Svetlana in my conversation had told me that her dream was to be a designer. So I thought perhaps I could make this dream come true for her if things worked out for us. She also had very nice studious son, age 14, a good kid. I thought I could teach him my business and he could help his mother with hers. I would have this strong hard working and loving family. I never told Svetlana about my big dreams of course. I know all the reasons why not too. Does this sound like I have no faith in women or their ability to successfully run a business?

This thread is interesting but sickening as well. TR and what they do would be allot easier to deal with if the owner was a man. That's the sickening part of this for me.   


Maxx

[Michelangelo]

You DO?  Where? Talk about going wildly over the top! Playing the gender card, I agree, is a silly and unproductive move on Natasha's part . . . but it doesn't "prove" she's a "sexest (sp) man hater!"

The hell it doesn't.  We question her agency practices and she shifts the argument to

"I feel that the reason behind the attack our agency and I are experiencing here is that certain American men can’t put up with the fact that a few Russian women can start and operate a company that is able to not only provide excellent services to our customers"

So, she attacks us because we are men.  That is sexist.

In truth, she is likely trying to shift the argument from her alleged fake letters to this new issue.  But I'll venture to say that no one here is concerned about her gender.  We are concerned about her possible scams.

My guess is the post above that says perhaps Natasha does this

"She claims to have seen first hand the way Natasha ripped off her American clients, and thought of them as "stupid goats" to use and make money from."

is likely true.

So go ahead and graze, all you gullible billie goats :-)

BTW Boar---I'm not going to worry about spelling when I post from my blackberry.

[jb]

Michelangelo,

I do not believe the issue you are so enraged about here is a thing special to TR, or to the women who operate MOB agencies in the FSU... I believe it is pretty much generic to how all Russian/Ukrainian businesses feel about Americans.  We are, for the most part, all stupid tourists in need of a good fleecing from their point of view.  If you doubt that, try taking a taxi any place in any Russian or Ukrainian city using English only.  I promise you, it will take you only half as far, for twice the money.  These people believe we are made of money and they all want their part of it. 

Natasha Deever and her cohorts have probably earned a really good living for the past 3 years after having ripped off the database of an American owned agency named LTP, and started their own agency,,, does that tell you anything? 

Americans are to be dispised and used is the name of that game.  This woman has no respect for you, or anyone else here.  It's all a money game to her.  Her product is pretty faces, she deals in flesh,,, here we call it pandering, there,,, it is a way of life. 

One of the things we most often discuss around here is how difficult it is for our Russian wives to adjust to life in these United States, and it is a huge adjustment for them.  It's a whole new way of thinking.  Things they never thought about before are being presented as everyday things to them.  It's huge, believe me.

So Natasha Deever is pretty typical on that score.  She is just ignorant of how life can be somewhere other than the dog-eat-dog place where she lives.  This is one of the reasons so many of the men steer clear of the Russian owned MOB agencies.

[Maxx2]

I think most of us have great respect for a woman that is intelligent and business savvy.
- David

Damn straight we do. That's one of the reason we go to Russia to find wives. We like strong women.

My mother was a strong woman 54 years ago (pictured with Dad).



And 54 years later still is.



She's proud of her business and gets great joy from it. She'll be 78 in November and is going strong.

Maxx

[Michelangelo]

Natasha Deever and her cohorts have probably earned a really good living for the past 3 years after having ripped off the database of an American owned agency named LTP, and started their own agency,,, does that tell you anything? 

Exactly.  And that's what I have been saying, along with many others, through this whole strand.

But with her last post sweet little Natasha has shown her true face, in print for the first time here.

[Michelangelo]

I do not believe the issue you are so enraged about here is a thing special to TR, or to the women who operate MOB agencies in the FSU... I believe it is pretty much generic to how all Russian/Ukrainian businesses feel about Americans.  We are, for the most part, all stupid tourists in need of a good fleecing from their point of view.  If you doubt that, try taking a taxi any place in any Russian or Ukrainian city using English only.  I promise you, it will take you only half as far, for twice the money.  These people believe we are made of money and they all want their part of it. 

So Natasha Deever is pretty typical on that score.  She is just ignorant of how life can be somewhere other than the dog-eat-dog place where she lives.  This is one of the reasons so many of the men steer clear of the Russian owned MOB agencies.

It's true that American's are disliked by many in Russia and Ukraine, and it's worse now than it was three years ago when I started my travels there.

And sure, double standards for pricing do exist, as I've written about in my Trip Report "Moving to Ukraine."

But let's not paint with too broad of strokes--I've encounterd honest agencies owned by non-Americans.  And I met one scammer in an agency recommended by many on this site, which is American owned.

My advice is to avoid the agencies with red flags, such as TR and CC, and to be very careful even with the agencies that get good recommendations from American clients.

Look for an honest agency where you can write a few letters to real girls and then make your trip to meet them.  Choose your favorite, get her phone number and address, and be done with the agency. 

Thus, in my view, the role of the agency is a brief one--they help you locate girls to meet and then you are done with them.

[Maxx2]

Natasha Deever and her cohorts have probably earned a really good living for the past 3 years after having ripped off the database of an American owned agency named LTP, and started their own agency,,, does that tell you anything? 


So Natasha Deever is pretty typical on that score.  She is just ignorant of how life can be somewhere other than the dog-eat-dog place where she lives.  This is one of the reasons so many of the men steer clear of the Russian owned MOB agencies.

Something I found Marc Dayton of LTP posted last year.


I have 10 years working with Russian people one on one so I think I am one of the types of men your talking about who would not need to use a full service. well let me tell you how my 10 years of experience just got me scammed.

We just pulled out of the Ivanovo office why the people I trusted the people that were referred to me  to run the office in Ivanovo just scammed me and my partner so bad we pulled out.

what I am trying to say here is no matter how much you know who you know it can happen to the best of us. Like I told you before their is no Insurance for not getting scammed.

As you say no way to know the intent of all the girls in your program  or the RW that work for you let alone ones you have no control over.

we just lost a $150.000 Investment


$150,000 lost because his Russian partners took his business and ran him out of town. Bad Russian partners and from the sound of it dishonest RW employees too.


Maxx

[av8or1]

Natasha Deever and her cohorts have probably earned a really good living for the past 3 years after having ripped off the database of an American owned agency named LTP, and started their own agency,,, does that tell you anything? 

Interesting to see where all of this has lead.....thought I would add something:

Jb, Michaelangelo, others, forget about the "stealing the database" thing, ok?  I spoke with Marc when I began looking into this whole Tver scenario.  I don't want to speak for Mark, but he did tell me that he likes Natasha and thinks she runs a good agency.  He further told me that if I didn't use his LTP that I should use TR, that was his recommendation.  I don't believe Mark to be the type to want to just throw me to the wolves either.  He struck me as an honest guy and he spent the better part of an hour answering my questions and giving me his opinions.  For his honesty, I will throw some business his way when I go to Tver by meeting with the 2 or 3 (maybe 4, can't remember now) women in his agency who interested me.  Unfortunately for him, TR just had a significantly higher number of women who interested me, that's all.  He understood that and wished me the best, and yeah, I think he meant that.

So my point is, if Marc doesn't have a problem with Natasha and TR, then why do you?

So Natasha Deever is pretty typical on that score.  She is just ignorant of how life can be somewhere other than the dog-eat-dog place where she lives.  This is one of the reasons so many of the men steer clear of the Russian owned MOB agencies.

I can't say why, but I know this isn't true JB, so let's leave it at that.

Stepping back from all of this, I had no idea that this thread was going to generate so much press, both good and bad, when I began it.  Funny how things turn out sometimes...

Thanks Bruce, for the kind words in your post too, I don't want to be let down by anyone either.  I'm not in the business of letting anyone down myself, for that matter.   With all of the conjecture and speculation surrounding this thread, if there's one thing that can be said for CERTAIN, it is that I want to meet my future partner and begin a life with her.  My intentions are sincere, genuine and serious.  Of that y'all can be well assured.

Oh and Maxx, all of our differences aside, thank you for posting the photos of your mother.  That made my night!  I admire her for her strength and perserverance!  Tell her to keep at it, we're all behind her, 100%.

Best to all,

Jerry

[Maxx2]

I can't say why, but I know this isn't true JB, so let's leave it at that.

Jerry

Jerry knows best JB.

"I can't say why" (to borrow Jerry's phrase) but I believe Marc Dayton is a forgiving and turn the other cheek sort of guy working with the old credo of don't speak ill of the competition. He gets ripped off by his Russian partners for $150 K and only one laid back mention of it.

Maxx

[BillyB]

So my point is, if Marc doesn't have a problem with Natasha and TR, then why do you?

Interesting. I PM'd Marc to give his two cents here. I hate to think he's wishy washy saying Tver Romance are thieves and now says everything is cool. I do hope Natasha's next post explains a few things instead of being another sales pitch and finger pointing at men deflecting from the topic at hand.

[tims]

What a discussion.  I had to check out this website after seeing all of the messages here.  I noticed that a lot of the women's profiles on TverRomance are old, maybe a couple of years or so.  Are these women the professional dater types that we have heard so much about?  Can Natasha talk about why these women have been with her agency for so long and not found a man?

Tim

[Maxx2]

My impression of the marriage agencies in Tver is that they do not want to have happen of what is happening here. Everyone wants to get along. Why? Because threads like this don't mean a thing in the grand scheme of things in Tver. The guys that have nothing to do with RWD, about 99%, will still come or send those letters. This thread will sink out of sight and even if a few notice it nobody will read it carefully. Of course the problem for Richard, Marc, Natasha and Yuroslav is that they live in the same town and cross each other's paths and maybe do a little business together. Somebody like a Jerry who sees a woman he might like to meet only she's at another agency. So they call and make an arrangment. They don't need bad blood between them. If Natasha was smart she'd let the whole thing drop as nobody will remember any of this any more than they remembered Marc Dayton being ripped off for $150,000 and run out of town last year. There was no reason for her to post her reply at 2:51 AM Moscow time and lose sleep over this. Same for me. Relax Natasha, memories are short on this board except mine.

Maxx

[tims]

Maxx,

Any thoughts on why the profiles on Natasha's site are so old?  Why haven't the women there found a man yet?

Tim