TverRomance

[Marc Dayton]

Ken I should have asked you this looks like its personal with you.

Man this strats with some TR I get into TA. Talk about BH, and LTP just gets BF

AL Bundie where are you?

[av8or1]

Ok y'all,

Just a quick update.  I have decided to make Tver my destination in November.  It's a done deal, I made the airline reservations tonight and will get the visa thing started tomorrow night.  Finally, I spoke with Lyuba yesterday and everything's a go from their end, so upward and onward!

I will be using TverRomance as my primary agency but will also meet a couple of women in Marc's Lifetime Partners agency too.  I know he's a pistol (and a half), but Marc has been great to me, incredibly helpful actually.  Natasha has also.  We'll see what happens when I arrive and spend time in Tver.

I realize that many of you on this board have strong feelings one way or another about the whole subject.  It is not my intent to begin another debate.  Instead, I simply wanted to let y'all know what I decided to do, being the man who began this thread some 26 pages ago when I was simply looking for information while doing a little research.  If it is possible for you, I ask that you put your convictions aside and realize that there is a human element at play here.  That is me and the women I will meet, who have nothing to do with any agency wars, as they were/are/whatever.  I am going there with the best of intentions and I hope to meet a woman who shares those same intentions.  I want to meet someone with whom I can begin a future.  I ask you to think of that and show support, which is what I would do for you.

And remember that in a very real way, I'm the guinea pig here.  Hahahaha! lol   Rest assured that when I return I will write y'all a detailed TR regarding Natasha and her agency, Lifetime Partners and the city of Tver in general.  After that I will also be around to offer advice and help anyone else who might consider a trip to Tver in the future.

Best to all,

Jerry

[Jack]

Jerry, as I mentioned to Mike a few days ago, now is a wonderful time for him, and you, to be using the services of Tver Romance. With most recent discussions about Natasha, her practices, her inability to respond to direction questions about writing phony letters, any guy who goes to see Natasha in the immediate future is bound to be, HAS to be, treated like kings in order to hope that some of the recent discussions will fade away. I suspect NO agency in Tver at this time will give you the care and attention you will receive from Tver Romance which is good for you, Mike and any other guys going to Tver anytime soon.

[Jack]

Forget for the time being if we can about the well documented case (in at least my opinion) Maxx has presented with Tver Romance writing phony letters, and forget for the time being the accusation of Natalia "borrowing" the data base of ladies from LTP at the time she left that agency.

Instead let's play a little game called "What would you do?"   ???

Mike15 as someone who has strongly recommended the services of Tver Romance I would like to present to you a scenario and to ask you what you would do if you were in this position. If you agree to partake in this little exercise I will ask what you would do if you were (1) the owner of this tour group and what you would do if you were (2) a client on this particular tour group.

This tour takes place in the magic land of Oz. The most beautiful women in the world live in this land of Oz. Most of Oz, although not all of Oz, but most of Oz has been economically depressed for many years. The men of Oz have traditionally not been the best of husbands or fathers although their are always exceptions. There are many fine husbands and fathers in Oz but a larger than acceptable percentage of men not so good. Due to these conditions and a few more many, not all, but many of these beautiful ladies of Oz are more open to seeking a foreign husband from the magic land of America, England, Canada and other countries.

Mike you are Mr. O as you enter the land of Oz. Mr. O is the owner of this agency who is escorting 12 good and sincere men to Oz in hopes of helping these men find a good wife. You are aware of a good agency in the land of Oz and your men are working with this agency, meeting many fine ladies from this agency. In hopes of helping your clients to meet even more good ladies you hear of this new agency called Agency of Love. Now you have heard some reports about this agency maybe writing false letters in the past, pretending to be ladies writing men, but as these are only stories you have heard, you want to give everyone the benefit of any doubts and see for yourself as you have done for many years. So you call the owner of Agency of Love and ask if you can meet her and bring some of your good clients. The owner of Agency of Love, Venus, says yes, please come.

So Mike as Mr. O you take four of your good clients to Agency of Love. You meet Venus. She is a beautiful woman of Oz, speaks very good English, she is so charming, her words so sweet and sincere sounding. You also meet Venus's assistant who is named Angel.  Angel also speaks wonderful words and sounds very real, very excited to help you and your four good clients. When talking to Venus she tells you all about her wonderful agency, her wonderful girls. You like what you hear from Venus and Angel and you ask Venus " Venus, what are you going to charge these men for the opportunity to meet some of your fine ladies" and Venus replies back "twenty dollars" ($20).  So your four clients begin to look through the catalogs and on the computers for ladies who interest them. You Mike, as Mr. O, say "thank you very much Venus, nice to meet you. I have to go now but will send more of our fine clients to you this afternoon and in the morning".  As you have other things to do, and you see Venus and Angel working with client 1, client 2, client 3 and client 4, you leave the office of Agency of Love and go about your other business.

Mike as Mr. O you get a phone call from client 2 about three hours later. Client 2 tells you he has just got a call from Agency of Love and they have set up a meeting with one of your top choice ladies, but Venus has told you the price for a meeting is now $50, not $20 has she had said some three-four hours early. Mr. O tells client 2 he will call him back within the hour and try to see what is happening.

Mike, about 10 minutes later while you are walking in the land of Oz you see client number 1, he is walking very fast towards you, you can tell by the look on his face something has happened. Client 1 comes up to you and says "Mr. O, I just heard from Venus. She says I have a meeting with a lady I would really like to meet in 30 minutes. But she says the price for the meeting is now $50. What's going on Mr. O"?.

Mr. O excuses himself from the people and meeting he is in and with client number 1 walks away and calls Venus. "Venus, this is Mr. O. I have client 1 with me, and client 2 called me a short time ago. These two clients are telling me that you are telling them their meetings are $50 each" to which Venus replies "Yes, that is right". Mr. O then ask's Venus what about the price of $20 a meeting she had quoted four hours earlier, to which Venus replies she did not quote $20 a meeting. She says her charge will be $50 for a private meeting. Mr. O then says "But you quoted me and our clients $20 for each meeting" to which Venus replies "You are mistaken".

Mr. O ask's Venus to hold for one minute and then ask's client 1 did he hear Venus quote the price of $20 per private meeting to which client 1 says yes. Mr. O then tells Venus that client 1 also heard her quote $20 for a private meeting to which Venus says "he is also mistaken".  Mr. O hears enough, tells Venus good-bye.  Mr. O then calls client number 2 who had called him earlier and asked him again as to what price he had heard Venus quote for each private meeting to which client 2 replies $20. Mr. O tells client number 2 that Venus says he, we, are mistaken. Mr. O then calls clients 3 and 4, ask's them what price they had heard Venus quote them and they both said $20.  Mr. O informs clients 3 and 4 that although they thought they heard Venus quote $20 for each private meeting that the price is now $50.  Clients 3 and 4 tell Mr. O that they did not misunderstand Venus, they heard her say $20 for a private meeting. Mr. O tells clients 3 and 4 if they would like private meetings through Venus at Agency of Love they will have to pay $50 per meeting. Clients 3 and 4 tell Mr. O where to tell Venus to shove it, they will not work with such a person.

Now Mike15, you are Mr. O, the owner of this tour group representing these men, what do you do?  Do you continue to work with the beautiful, sincere sounding Venus? Do you tell clients 5 through 12 about Agency of Love and the private meetings that are now $50 each after earlier being told they would be $20 each?  Do you tell these clients what had happened earlier in the day? 

Mike15, if you are client number 1, do you proceed with working with Venus and Agency of Love?

What do you do Mike15 if you are Mr. O and what do you do if you are client 1?

[Bruno]

Client 2 tells you he has just got a call from Agency of Love and they have set up a meeting with one of your top choice ladies, but Venus has told you the price for a meeting is now $50, not $20 has she had said some three-four hours early. Mr. O tells client 2 he will call him back within the hour and try to see what is happening.

Jack, are you new in the land of Oz... can you remember very big inflation... a few hundred % in one night... Same situation for the Agency of love... 150% inflation in 4 hours... The customer of Jack are guilty... the 20$ meeting was valid when annouced by the owner of Agency of Love... 4 hours after, due to inflation, price was more high... Lucky they have not try meet girls the day after, it was 100$...

  ...

[BC]

This story of O sounds sOO familiar.. seems I heard a similar version quite a while ago.

If posts on this forum are noted by agency owners and results in better service for members then something is moving in the right direction.

I'm not going to argue against progress..

[av8or1]

Jerry, as I mentioned to Mike a few days ago, now is a wonderful time for him, and you, to be using the services of Tver Romance. With most recent discussions about Natasha, her practices, her inability to respond to direction questions about writing phony letters, any guy who goes to see Natasha in the immediate future is bound to be, HAS to be, treated like kings in order to hope that some of the recent discussions will fade away. I suspect NO agency in Tver at this time will give you the care and attention you will receive from Tver Romance which is good for you, Mike and any other guys going to Tver anytime soon.

Uhhhh...Jack, wake up and smell the coffee babe.  Mike is ENGAGED.  He will be going there with the sole purpose of meeting his FIANCEE, so he will not be treated like a "king" by Natasha or anyone else for that matter.

As for me, I just hope to find a good woman to begin a future with.  Quit your moaning and offer support.  Isn't that what should be at the heart of this type of forum?  Besides, I'm tired of hearing your $50/$20 story, that's hardly "scam" material to me.  And was it Natasha who personally quoted you the $20 or one of her assistants?  Are you being truthful about your answer to that question?

Jack, you should be much more experienced with this FSU venture than I am but somehow that doesn't seem to be the case.  Your approach and attitude towards the process seem to be on the cheap side to me.  Kinda like going into McDonalds and asking to pay $.50 for a happy meal or something when you know that the going rate for a happy meal at any McDonalds is around $3.  I mean, after only a little research into it, I can tell that any private meeting with any woman in any agency in Tver will run you $50, and I haven't even been there yet.  Admittedly I haven't even touched BeHappy, so I can't speak to their stuff.  IMHO, you should have expected the $50 price tag when you brought your "good clients" to Tver and told those "good clients" to expect it too.  If their charge came out to be less than $50 then great, you got a deal, but if not then that's the way it goes.  The point being is that you have to be prepared to do as the Romans do when you're in Rome and $50 is the going rate in Tver for meetings with women.  Period.  If you had prepared your clients for that I would pose that the outcome of their efforts would have been different.  She wanted to charge you that going rate.  Now explain to me: you think this is a "scam" because why exactly?  Granted it's a bit more pricey than other places, but again, when in Rome...heck whatever, you can run your business as you see fit.  I don't want to start another war, just trying to say that we see things differently.  I show up prepared with as much knowledge of the area, women and agencies that I can reasonably attain beforehand while you show up with...I don't know, something less.

Best to all,

Jerry

[BillyB]

Jerry,

Most guys here wish everyone the best and success including you,that's a near given. But it's hard to be a cheerleader for you when, in my opinion, you're heading into a risky situation. I've seen many guys take on questionable agencies when told not to only to come back and tell how they got shafted.

If it wasn't for thousands of posts from Maxx and Jack and a track record of not bashing agencies often, I wouldn't give their experiences much weight but they haven't gone around and bashed TR until their first bad experience.

Technically, you're right, TR's prices are as posted but one's word and a handshake should still be valued. Aside from Jack's abrasive on-line personality, nobody has anything shady to say about his business in the years I've been reading. Everybody who's experienced his service had always said good things about it. So with those endorsements I tend to believe what Jack says to be true. Natasha doesn't keep her word. She has still yet to finished what she promised in coming back to answer questions. It's not required of her but it reflects her ability follow through no matter how turbulent the waters are.

Jerry, even though I wouldn't do what you're doing since there's less risky roads to take, you seem to be a good guy with sincere intentions and I think you'll be a good catch for a woman. I wish you success in finding what you're looking for.

[Marc Dayton]

Just thinking, why not let Jerry do his trip his way.I have talked with him in detail & about what to look for. He is a smart man, and I believe he will come back to tell all of us as a client of TR what happend to him all the good and the bad.

I also want to her what happens to him from him words not from me as an agencies or what any other agency has to say.

I am not trying to fight with any one here he has made up his mind for his own reasons.

There are things an agency can't fake if a man knows what to look for ?

[CaptB]

Jack,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              Developing an agency has always held some interest for me. Ken C started a thread on what would be the "ideal agency". As a business man.....I always remember.....even when dealing with friends and family.....I put it in "writing". Keeps everyone honest....and in the case of family and friends.....helps to preserve those relationships. Even you friends may "honestly" remember some details...differently. In
contracting out to another agency for their services......I would have a standard, brief, form covering "how many men"......on such and such a date.......services used and price. Nothing fancy....simple....straight-forward. If there were say....two agencies I sometimes use......I would have a specific sheet for each. I would list permanently....as part of the form......those individuals "authorized"......"to authorize"
......with a place for their signature.

If what happened to you really happened......it would be very embarassing to have have it happen to me (the owner)........in the presence of "clients". Not a very good impression. You can blame the other agency.....this time......but would have no to blame but yourself......if you don't take simple precautions. Yup......my "word" is my bond (personally)......but you need to tend to "business"...........in a "business-like" manner. Just my two kopeks worth.

Capt B

[Rvrwind]

>

[tim 360]

A true fool will continually speak up and confirm it.

Eeeehhhh,  Dan are you gonna kill this thread off or just let it keep bleeding out. Tim360

[Bruno]

A true fool will continually speak up and confirm it.

Eeeehhhh,  Dan are you gonna kill this thread off or just let it keep bleeding out. Tim360

Why kill this thread... almost 4400 view... on the way to be the topic the more see here... and the only loosers will be the TVER agency's who fight each other...

Maybe by reading so topic, some people will begin think like JB : Agency are not needed !

[Jooky]

Quit your moaning and offer support.  Isn't that what should be at the heart of this type of forum?

Absolutely not!

This forum should give realistic, honest and beneficial advice to those who know nothing about this 'venture'. In most cases the best that can be done is to tell a man to run away fast.

Jerry, your 'when in Rome' comment hits a nerve with me. Here is the honest going rate for meeting a women in Tver:
$ 0.00. That's right. Zero bucks. You are going to Russia, but you are not doing as the Russians. Neither are you doing as most foreigners do in a foreign land. You are seeking a woman in a very unnatural fashion as do a very limited group of bride seeking men. That's ok, but don't fool yourself about the situation.

Now, if I was going to buy a house, I really don't give a damn in the realtor is friendly, owes cash to an old business partner, pretty, gets upset easily, throws in a free backrub or some other nonsense. I am interested in finding a house. So I can understand your position. The women that caught your eye are signed up with a certain 'realtor' and you don't care about this realtor, you care about the real estate.

There's are two major differences though. In the mail order bride business, closing the deal is not in the best interest of the realtor. Most women on the market can be reached directly without a realtor.

Let me ask you a few questions.

Why Tver? Did you pick the city first, then decide to find a wife in this city you've never been to? Or are you going to Tver because the women that strike your fancy happen to be from Tver?

How close are you to these women? How are they on the phone? Are they as you imagined from reading their profiles? Do they meet your expectations? Or have you not yet reached this stage of communication?

Why do you insist on going the full service agency route? Are you unaware that this is likely the riskiest way to meet a good Russian woman?

[Bruce]

Jooky, I like the part about the real estate brokers.  However, I do not believe you have experience in Tver or dealing with the Tver agencies.  I am not sure you realize the abundance of quality women in and around Tver.  Sure the agencies have some scammers, dogs and other undesirable women - but I do not believe it is their intention.  Tver just has alot of quality women around.  Surely, a well intentioned agency can hook a serious guy up with some quality leads. 

"Why do you insist on going the full service agency route? Are you unaware that this is likely the riskiest way to meet a good Russian woman?"

The above inference is based upon what data  ? 

[Marc Dayton]

In the mail order bride business. O O O please send me your books I would like 3 please. Make sheer they are boxed, and wrapped nice so there not broken when they get here.

One last question what is the charge for over nighting my mail order bride to me?

[Darth Vader]

And remember that in a very real way, I'm the guinea pig here.  Hahahaha! lol   Rest assured that when I return I will write y'all a detailed TR regarding Natasha and her agency, Lifetime Partners and the city of Tver in general. 
Jerry

LOL!!!  Jerry, you sly Texas Devil.   Pretty smart move, playing dumb and the fool of this strand.  I see through you, as was written 20 pages ago.  Jack does too, as he has just posted.

Yep, you are going to be the poster child for Eve (uh, I mean Natasha) and she is going to give you the royal treatment.  She can afford to, using the money from all the fake letters sent to other guys.

But never mind them, you get access to her very best girls     And all the other tappings of a presidential visit :-)

Also pretty sly of you to repeat the line here "when I return I will write y'all a detailed TR regarding Natasha and her agency." Just so she doesn't forget. 

Have fun, my man, have fun 

[Durk]

         Hey Jerry have a great trip!! I want to ask just one favor
of ya. Ask Ms. Deeva why she has not replied to our questions. Do
it for yourself MAN not for all of us here on the board! ASK FOR
YOURSELF!! ???

[av8or1]

This forum should give realistic, honest and beneficial advice to those who know nothing about this 'venture'. In most cases the best that can be done is to tell a man to run away fast.

Jerry, your 'when in Rome' comment hits a nerve with me. Here is the honest going rate for meeting a women in Tver:
$ 0.00. That's right. Zero bucks. You are going to Russia, but you are not doing as the Russians. Neither are you doing as most foreigners do in a foreign land. You are seeking a woman in a very unnatural fashion as do a very limited group of bride seeking men. That's ok, but don't fool yourself about the situation.
[other anti-agency drivel deleted]

Jooky,

Your post is so full of anti-agency rhetoric that it's hardly even worth replying to.  It's clear that you don't like agencies, so whatever.  I'm tired of hearing all of you anti-agency guys belching your innards clean of the bile feelings you have towards them.  So the one question I have for you is: do you have any personal experience in Tver using this agency?  No, right?  Then shut your noise, you're speaking about something you know nothing of, which is unfair at best and many other things too, but I won't list them all here.

Having been to the FSU several times now, I'm hardly someone who knows "nothing about this 'venture'".  So thanks, but no thanks, I'd rather just hear y'all say something like "enjoy yourself and let us know how it went when you get back."  Which is what I will do and no Darth, my review of Natasha, her agency, Marc and his agency and the city of Tver isn't a ploy or a sly scheme on my part to receive favorable treatment from Natasha or Marc.  It's just a fact.  I posted a TR on my Kherson trip too.  The only reason I didn't say anything about my trip before I left is because I didn't know this RWD thing existed then.

Just for funzies, I will answer the question about why Tver and why TR/LTP.  The reasons are pretty straightforward:

1) Tver, TR and LTP were recommended to me by my interpreter (a Russian lady who lives in Oregon and who has no ties to TR/LTP, but who has had clients use their services and these clients reported that both agencies did a good job for them - eg PERSONAL experience).  I have been working with her (my interpreter) for 2 years now and trust her judgement.

2) After receiving that recommendation I did a search on many websites (including the 'free' websites you anti-agency twits) and found that there were/are many women listed who match the criteria of the type of woman I am looking to meet and build a future with.  I have spoken with several men who have been to Tver and who have told me that there are an abundance of this type of women there, more so than in other cities they have visited.  I think someone posted something to this effect today, AAMOF.  Bottom line is that there appears to be a good number of available women who I want to meet in Tver.  Is this really true?  I don't know but I am going to find out for myself.

3) After talking with these men who have been to Tver and used TR, none of them had anything bad to say about the agency or Natasha.  Same goes for LTP and Marc.  The only complaints have come from guys who have never been there or used the services.  The exception is Richard, who lives there.  I think he's probably an ok guy, but his long-winded slammings of pretty much everything except for his own agency got old after a while so I quit listening.  No offense intended.

4) WRT finding a good woman with whom I can begin a future, Tver seems as good of a city as any other.  It's relatively easy to get to, has a smaller town feel to it and there appears to be plenty of things to do and see.  I have been to several cities already and some more than once.  So the basic thought is why not try something new?  The result can't be any worse than what I've experienced thus far, again, in terms of meeting a woman to build a future with.  Professional daters?  Pure "pros"?  Indifferent women?  Women who aren't serious about foreign men?  Hey, 'been there, done that, got the shirt in just about every city I've been to in the FSU.  Tell me that Tver has the market cornered on those bad apples and I'll tell you that you're an idiot.  In essence, Tver doesn't appear to be any better or worse than anywhere else I could visit, so why not go and see if things might work out with someone?  Often times change can be good and I'm kinda burned out on Ukraine, so my interpreter suggested trying Russia.  In her words "Russian girls are better", though I don't know that I believe that completely.   Nonetheless I thought I'd give her a chance to prove herself right, so I decided to stir up the pot so to speak and do something new.  Admittedly I do feel more comfortable in Ukraine and I like not having to deal with the visa stuff, but the die is cast, I am going to Tver.  We'll see if there are "more marriage minded women in Russia", like my interpreter claims.

BillyB, well let's agree to disagree WRT Jack.  I've met him, talked to him and didn't like him.  He is entitled to his opinions and approaches but just because others buy into that crap doesn't mean I have to.  Thank you for the well wishes just the same, I appreciate it.

Ok that's it fellas.  Thank you for all of the feedback, even if misguided, emotional and biased, it's been entertaining all the same!   When I return from Tver I will speak with the voice of personal experience and let y'all know how things went.  Hopefully I will have good news to share!  Wish me luck!

Best to all,

Jerry

[Jooky]

Whoa easy there. Telling me to shut my noise accomplishes nothing. We all have a right to voice our opinions here. Did you take my post as an attack? It sure wasn't. No need for to start slinging insults.

What you call my anti-agency drivel, which you must have miscomprehended, was an argument in support of your decision to go against what people are saying here about these Tver agencies.

I'll make my point even more clear: This search is not about agencies. It is about finding the right woman.

This is why I think that choosing an agency or city first and then limiting your search to women within that one city or agency is counter-intuitive. I asked my questions because I really have no idea how you got into this search and chose Tver and these agencies in particular. Thanks for the answers. You've been around, you've had crappy experiences, and you're trying something new. Fair enough. Sounds ok to me. I don't see the need to use an agency in Russia, but that's your choice.

When you say "Tell me that Tver has the market cornered on those bad apples and I'll tell you that you're an idiot", what if I said "Tver has the market cornered on those good apples", because essentially that's what the propaganda that led you to Tver said right?  I'm sure that there are good women in Tver. I hope you meet at least one! But I believe these 'magical cities of perfect brides' as much as I believe in ghosts, dragons and leprechauns. I haven't been to Tver, but there's no reason for me to believe that it has 'better women' than any other Russian city that I have been to.

So to make you happy, and hopefully avoid being called a 'twit' again.

"Enjoy yourself and let us know how it went when you get back", and I do mean that! 

I'm sure you'll meet some nice women regardless of the agencies, so good luck!

[Jooky]

"Why do you insist on going the full service agency route? Are you unaware that this is likely the riskiest way to meet a good Russian woman?"

The above inference is based upon what data?

The data comes from Jooky's World Fact Book © 2006

Seriously here are my thoughts (or call it my anti-agency drivel if you like, av8or feel free to ignore), and anyone out here can take them or leave them.

Here are things I know as a fact, directly from women and men that have used agencies:

What a woman states in her profile is not necessarily true, nor does it often reflect her true character or desires.

- Some agencies coach their women on what to say to attract foreigners.
- Some agencies simply ask their client women a few questions then write a profile for them which may or may not be   based on the answers.
- Some women learn from other agency clients what works and what does not to attract more men.
- Some women simply are putting their best side forward and saying what they know men want to hear. This happens on any internet profile, so this is not exclusive to agencies. And yes, men do this to.

Many agencies prompt you to waste your time and money on women that are not interested in you.

- Some agencies actively recruit women, especially beautiful women to grace the pages of their catalogs. These women often have no intention whatsoever of marrying a foreigner, but they are given incentives to supply a picture and profile, to video chat or to go on dates.
- Some agencies insist that their women respond to every man that writes to them.
- Some agencies insist that their women go on a date with any man that shows up in town and pays their dating fee.
- Some agencies insist that all conversations are made through their interpreters, even if not needed.
- Some agencies insist that all contact be made through them. This to me is ridiculous and is done so solely to suck your money. Agencies should introduce, then leave you in peace. I don't know the practices of the Tver agencies regarding this.

I am not saying that the Tver agencies mentioned on this thread participate in these activities.

Tver Romance has been accused of writing letters for their clients. This was not refuted. On this thread I read from one satisfied client and one vocally dissatisfied client, Maxx.

Marc Dayton, I am absolutely convinced, would not willingly engage in promote these practices. However, I'm amazed that he did not realize that Anastasia web was prompting him to do so, and I question his ability to fully control his operation from overseas. His willingness to turn away clients over a personal dispute seems foolish. However, I get the impression that he runs an honest business as does Richard.

And Marc, yes I'm sorry, you're not running a mail-order bride business. It's a 'take-out' order bride business. That saves you that overnight shipping cost.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, despite an agency's best intentions, there are factors outside of the agency's control.

Agencies attract poor and desperate women.

- This should be obvious because nowadays any woman with more than a few rubles can hop on the internet and meet plenty of men on her own without the aid of an agency. There is nothing wrong with poor women, but for those of you who believe Russian women are better women simply because they are Russian, you are better off finding a woman who is not poor. Why? Simply because she has a much better chance to leave Russia and visit your country (especially if you are European) as a tourist rather than a fiance. This relieves the pressure and rush that often leads to disaster.
- Likewise, there is nothing wrong with a desperate lonely woman, but that is the type of woman most likely to settle for the first man that comes along. She might be more concerned with escaping her current situation than in finding the right man. If there is good luck, this ends up as a good match. In most cases it's also a disaster.

Agencies attract 'bad' women.

- 'Gold Diggers', 'Green Card Girls' and 'Pro Daters' go through agencies to line up their clients or victims. Why? Because this is where the gullible men who've bought agency hype are. This is where they find an easy catch. Unlike 'Scammers' they want to meet men. They don't want to deal with keyboard Romeos. They want to meet men who are in town, now. The best way to do this is through an agency.

Agencies are limiting.

- Let's face it, using a full service agency costs a lot of money. Having to pay a few dollars per letter, fifty bucks for a date (or a thousand or whatever HRB charges to meet a single woman) adds up. This is a limitation which often makes a man contact, converse with and ultimately reach less women than he would using other less expensive methods. This is a false and self imposed limitation. There are many more women in Russia that can be met outside of agencies than through them.
- Prohibitive costs typically means less direct contact (especially by phone) before you fly to Russia to meet women. This is why I asked av8or about the phone contact with the women he is to meet. In many cases that I have read about on these boards there is no phone contact before the first meeting. From what I've seen, people who don't use agencies tend to have more direct conversation with their potential future mates that those who do.
- Women that are available through agencies to meet you at a drop of a dime are typically going to be working and living their normal lives when you visit. They will not have the time to fully devote to getting to know you as women do who are prepared for your arrival. You can't get to know a woman's true character and know if she is to be your life partner in a dinner and bowling date or two.
- The point is to get to know a woman before you marry her. In many ways an agency can inadvertently hamper this from happening.

Many women avoid agencies because of the bad reputation that the 'mail order bride' business has gained through the Russian press and word of mouth.

- What I've been told is that years ago agencies did offer a promising future or escape for many Russian women, but that nowadays it's general knowledge that the type of men that attend romance tours and seek brides through full service agencies are undesirable losers and 'maniacs'. Now that's straight from what several Russian women have told me, not my opinion. There is negative propaganda about this 'business' in Russia just as there is here in the US.
- Many women who use agencies go on one fruitless date after another and often become jaded with this whole 'process'.

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These are all unnecessary risks you encounter when using an agency.

I do think that you can find a good woman through an agency. Of course you can. But using an agency certainly does not increase your chance of finding her. In most cases that I read about or know about first hand it simply increases the risk that you waste your time and cash on a fruitless trip to Russia.

Av8or, I believe has used agencies before and he's encountered the pro daters, the gold diggers, the bad apples. Been there, done that. Well, I've been there too, plenty, but I haven't done that. I haven't used an agency* and I've met and learned about the bad apples but only through friends. They have not been a played part of my search to meet women. I haven't wasted my time and money on them.

There are more Russian women on bridal and dating personal sites than there are in full service agencies. There are even more Russian women who would be willing to move to another country than are actively looking to do so. You can meet more women if you don't limit your search to one particular city, or one tiny subset of that city (a small agency).

Of course, there might be that one particular woman that catches your eye and she is only available through a certain agency. Then, by all means go meet her, but remember, you are flying across the world to go on a blind date. Enjoy it,
but is that a reasonable way to search for a wife? 

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* Ok, I did use an agency once, but I didn't mean to. I wrote to a girl on a free personals site on a whim and she surprisingly wrote back. We exchanged two letters and she disappeared. I was in Moscow at the time and had given her my phone number and asked for hers.

Well, it turns out I wasn't writing to this girl at all. Some agency was handling the correspondence much as Maxx accuses Tver Romance of doing.

A month and a half later a girl phones me and I have no idea who she is, but I agree to set up a date. I thought she must be in Moscow but it turns out that meant flying to her city an hour and a half away. She told me later that she'd been dragged to the agency by a friend. The agency insisted that she write to everyone including me and she refused. So they took over her correspondence and tried to entice her to come back to meet men. She refused. But, there was one man who was in Moscow and had left a phone number, so the agency said, what the hell and gave her my number, a month later. She held on to it for a few weeks and one day placed that fateful call. She didn't know anything about me. She had seen the photos of some men but was unsure which one I was, if any.

But I didn't know all that yet. So I flew out two days later to meet her. And that's how I met my girlfriend.

Good luck guys!

[Bruce]

Jooky, a lot of great points in your above post.  Yes, a man has to wade through much to find the women of his dreams.  Perhaps you will be lucky with your pseudo agency girl. 

"What a woman states in her profile is not necessarily true, nor does it often reflect her true character or desires."  Agree, if the agency is poor it happens quite often but if it is better it happens infrequently.

"Many agencies prompt you to waste your time and money on women that are not interested in you."  Agree, if the agency is poor it happens quite often but if the agency is better it happens less often.  Your above two points are eliminated if a guy forgets about writing letters and just goes over to meet real women.


"Agencies attract poor and desperate women."
"Agencies attract 'bad' women."

Again, I generally agree with the above two statements.  However, a quality agency will screen out the truly undesirables.  Character and compatibility is such a tough thing for an agency to screen for that an agency and the  guy will never really know unless he keeps his wits about him, takes his time and meets women in person. 

A good agency will run personal advertisements in the city the guy is going to and surrounding area concerning the guy to help him meet non-agency girls (Jerry, I learned to do this my last two trips ie. pay Tverromance to run personal advertisements for you in and around Tver.  It should cost no more than $75 and may bring in extra girls for you to meet / read their letters see photos etc. who may be solely interested in you - unfortunately, it never worked out for me but the concept is good ie. you are comming there so you might as well get all interested girls in the region who see the advertisement to meet you). 

"Agencies are limiting."  I disagree with this one.  Agencies are something a guy uses to enhance his opportunity to meet women in the city he chooses to travel to.  Now, if a guy solely relies on the agency, letting its guides / interpreters lead him around like a young steer with a nose ring, then he probably is doing himself a disservice.  Now, if the guy is swimming with a huge choice of quality women in the agency then he may not branch out, but the guy has to keep his wits about him.  Luck always is a factor.

"This search is not about agencies. It is about finding the right woman."  Agree whole heartedly. 

What solves most guys problems is to learn the Russian language well.  I know this is extremely difficult for guys 35 plus but it is the one key every guy could do to dramatically improve his odds of success and enhance his travel experience.   

[jb]

I think every newbie should print out Jooky's post and paste it on his forehead. 

The pitfalls of agency women with an agenda are not to be dismissed lightly, he has enumerated them very succinctly.

[Darth Vader]

Nice post, Jook.  Your points should be read aloud daily by every man seeking an FSU girl.

I have used agencies, and they are one tool that can be useful to a man in his search.  However, you have to be careful.  And only a fool would use a tainted agency--if you do you are tempting fate.

But I also know the non-agency route is also frought with danger.  I have gone the free personals site and met some bad girls that way.

So what I would take from Jook's post is this-- assume every girl is a scammer and allow lots of time in relation with her to get to know her.  Never ever be a one week wonder. 

[Marc Dayton]

Wow, Nice post I wish I had some of the writing skills that some of you have, how ever. I don't, believe one size shoe fits all.

Newbes you should understand the key word is some agencies. I might even say most agencies one way or another care about the $$$ in your pocket.

The question I would like to debate is that I have been told by SOME!! RW? say that only poor girls or low life girls use an full service agencies.

I would say point blank an RW that would make a statement like that is like the story about the RW on the airplain telling a mans wife to devoice him, and she will hook her up with a rich man.

We all know that some RW think they are better then the wrest of world. No offence but you can say like JB these RW have nothing good to say about any thing other then the way they they believe is a one size shoe fits all.

Let me ask a question, if some agencies are honest what do you think they would do if they find a RW in there program that is just trying for a green card or to scam a man.

THEY KICK THEM OUT, and where to you think these RW go many go to free sites or to other agencies that don't care? I also want to say that dose not make all RW on a free site bad. It also dose not make all girls in a full service Agency good.