Regaining Control

[SANDRO43]

In summary, may one conclude that control over a RW can be regained if the proper tools are employed (different national variants being accomodated) ?

[Son of Clyde]

I know of at least three couples where the man is extremely shy and the marriages seem to be very sound. These are mixed AM and RW marriages. I do not see what goes on behind closed doors. I have been very vocal in the past about my experiences but these three guys choose to say nothing. I venture to guess they have problems and could be henpecked, but they appear to be very happy. You can't make a blanket statement because there are also some very timid and shy RW. I really believe it is all about security and kindness.

[Wild Orchid*]

I know of at least three couples where the man is extremely shy and the marriages seem to be very sound. These are mixed AM and RW marriages.

I can say exactly the same about Russian marriages. Even my mom, it is her way or highway. In some families Russian husband is absolutely fictional figure, I mean he doesn’t have right to make any decisions or even vote, all his asked to do - bring money in the house, the rest is up to his wife.   

[Rvrwind]

I can say exactly the same about Russian marriages. Even my mom, it is her way or highway. In some families Russian husband is absolutely fictional figure, I mean he doesn’t have right to make any decisions or even vote, all his asked to do - bring money in the house, the rest is up to his wife.

Have to agree with Wild Orchid on this one. I have seen this even among some of our Russian friends here, especially the older generation, 40+. Most of the couples we know in that generation, she is in control. Sorta blows that myth right out of the water.
Actually for the most part amoung our friends, those Russian couples unde 30 tend to act more as partners in the decision making. In the mix of RW/WM its a mix with I'd say most in favour of the joint desicion making, wth the last word on the matter usually falling to the man.
For the most part I find most relationships falling in the partnership mde as they should be in MHO. However I also notice that if the guy is decent the woman inveriably treats him with respect & attentiveness. That being said however, just screw up once & see what that gets you, LOL.

[KenC]

Wild/Richard,
So you know of examples where there is a RM that is dominated by his Russian wife?  What a surprise.  If the tough RM cave in now and then, what chance does the pussified AM have?  Even less, I would imagine.

Clyde,
No one really knows what goes on behind closed doors.  Happiness is a relative thing and I am sure there are men who like the position of second chair.
KenC

[Rvrwind]

So you know of examples where there is a RM that is dominated by his Russian wife?

Can't speak for Wild Orchid but can say I have close intimate knowledge of it, yes. Can also say I have close intimate knowledge in the case of an RW/BM where she most assuredly is in contol & lets him & everybody else well aware of it!
I might add that the two, one from each group that jumps to my mind instantly, both the men are big dudes, 6'+ & the women are considerbly smaller in stature. Just goes to show you - the bigger they are, the harder they fall, :crackthewhip:

[Maxx2]

she most assuredly is in contol & lets him & everybody else well aware of it!
I might add that the two, one from each group that jumps to my mind instantly, both the men are big dudes, 6'+ & the women are considerbly smaller in stature.  :crackthewhip:

There is something about being small that makes a RW turn into SUPER-RW. The first RW I was in contact was 5' 2" (160 cm) and 99 lbs. She scared the hell out of people. Her ex-husband was afraid of her, the doctors at the hospital were afraid of her. The clerks at the kiosks looked scared when she told them off. She didn't scare me but I knew she would eventually wear me down. Kind of like what Tony Soprano said on "the Sopranos" about his mother, Livia. "My father was tough, he ran his own crew. But she wore on him and wore on him until he was a squeeking little gerbal of a man".     

[Jumper]

Hmmmm -
 imagine a yes -stereotypical-(stereotypes exist normally for some reeason) strong willed RW in her 40's ,
likely having been strong and completely independent for some time..
handling all the things life has thrown at a single FSU mother..
quite used to being head of household,  both emotionally and financially..

and then you seem to have a guy who doesnt have a clue on how to handle the situation without becoming a door mat..
or how to be happy in the role he has found himself in  ..

????????

Hey i'm not going to be PC [i[here[/i] of all places-


A sweet as any RW can be,
an average  RW,could , and  would ,
run over any overly giving, sensitive guy,
like  a mAc truck rolling over a chipmunk.
with much less remorse than the truck has.

are there personalities of all types in the FSU ?
  and exceptions to this generalization??
 certainly!

but you dont go shopping for a 12 gauge shotgun at toys R us either.. 
 

He doesnt need to be a neandrathal,
but IMHO he does need to have enough sack to sit down and communicate to his wife the exact level of respect that he expects from his wife and daughter in his household, and go over the choices she has :
to live with his simple and reasonable family rules,
 or not be a family.
unless he is happy in the doormat role
*shrugs*

I make things too simple perhaps , and marriage counseling would be good if they'd go,, but that's unlikely.?

 

[Jet]

I think AJ came up with a new commadment 

dont go shopping for a 12 gauge shotgun at toys R us

[groovlstk]

A sweet as any RW can be,
an average  RW,could , and  would ,
run over any overly giving, sensitive guy,
like  a mAc truck rolling over a chipmunk.
with much less remorse than the truck has.

are there personalities of all types in the FSU ?
  and exceptions to this generalization??
 certainly!

but you dont go shopping for a 12 gauge shotgun at toys R us either.. 
 

Great post, AJ.

Honestly, if I had a friend who was your garden variety Alan Alda type, I think he'd have better luck chasing Asian women than Russian girls. Not that there aren't exceptions to the rule, but those Mack trucks seem awfully abundant in the FSU.

[jb]

AJ,

jb re-states everything---- at least twice.

Those Mack Trucks are hard to control,,, for sure.  Anyone who thinks a sweet little RW is going to be a push-over needs a labotomy,, right now~!

[catzenmouse]

AJ,

jb re-states everything---- at least twice.

Those Mack Trucks are hard to control,,, for sure.  Anyone who thinks a sweet little RW is going to be a push-over needs a labotomy,, right now~!

Ahhh, now we know what's wrong with our little pancake headed bunny...

Ken

[Jumper]

life is hard there,

 again not being PC,
and generalizing-

it is possibly  harder on average for the RW that most guys will meet thru introduction or marriage agencies.

An attractive RW that has a decent man , great job , or good prospects at home for any of those things,  is not nearly as likely to be looking elsewhere, just common sense?
(of course there are exceptions)

That said, life is generally hard, RW (that guys are meetiung) are generally used to handling everything on thier own ,
and in a harsher enviroment ,
both financially,emotionally  and socially than in the west.
surviving there as a single FSU woman or mom, (which is most RW guys will date  i assume    . ) takes a set of life skills a little more
edgy and determined .

why would any man think that situation wouldn't build a stronger ,more independent ,woman that is quite used to running things?

additionally those women cagey or gutsy enough
(or in some cases desperate even)
 to relocate to another culture / another language , and leave all theyve known behind -
surely have some *hupspa* or whatever term you'd like to call guts and determination?


Hey look at it as a positive or negative,
 (I personally like a woman to have her own mind and be strong willed , as long as she doesnt plow over me lol )
 
anyway for those looking ,
i would not expect that enviroment ,or situation , to have a lot of brown mouses in it?
some , sure.

but in general I would expect a woman very used to running all things, and all things her way.

That certainly doesnt mean you have to be a door mat.,
it does mean you should expect to share a home with someone who respects you, but may certainly challenge your decisions, is used to running things  so may not let go of the reins easily.

imagine!  you may even have to earn that respect!!
 by consistant good family  decisions.
 
seriuosly , trust and respect are NOT just a *given* , in that culture. 

well this has been too many words- *shrugs*

Basically IMHO-
expect that you wiil need to prove ,or earn ,her respect and admiration - by action and deed , by her seeing , and having the time and oppurtunity to see, that you are a man worthy of such.

(think of RW as being from  Missouri the "show me" state)

her respect and admiration  likely isnt going to just fall on your head,  just 'cause you are a nice guy and you both having shiny rings on. 

Most of the married guys here know how to strike that balance,
of being a man thier wives respect , while also being a kind generous person she can love.

Hate to say it,and dont mean to rain on anyones parade!!
 
 but i believe that  you either have that ability naturally,  or you dont.
If a man in this situation ,  needs to come to a forum to find out the "how to's" of striking that balance,
or what he should do "now"

there probably isnt much he will glean from here to help him?
other than maybe what he should have been expecting in a partner,and of himself ,
going in..???


 

[Louie]

Thank you Olga, that was very informative, now I'm scared, really scared!!!!!!

[Jet]

Excellent reply Olga!
You touched on many points that have not been discussed for some time on these boards and you tied it all together very well.

[Jumper]

Olga- great post !

jet , yeap .. I rambled for two pages -
and Olga comes along and knocks it out of the park  in a paragrapgh.. 

IMHO. Dan should engrave this on every newbies head who has read too many  MOB sirtes.. lol!

I understand that "nice guy" AM are different than weak RM in area of responsibility, dependability, etc. In fact they are very responsible and dependable. But it is a big mistake for you to expect a RW from such a different culture to understand this. To us "weak" man is weak man and always will be. By the time a RW is able to appreciate the little differences or value of "condition" AM it will probably be too late. She will already have drove this AM crazy. You guys need to be strong with RW from the beginning. Bring "nice guy" into your relationships with RW slow and gradually. I beleive a man can be strong and nice guy at same time. I know my American husband is.

Turboguy, I do not see that your friend ever had any control to "regain." A lot of AM simply should not be getting involved with RW to begin with.

Hope it helps!

Olga

[Maxx2]

I liked what Olga said. Problem is for most men being "strong" evolves into being controlling and abusive in some way. They get loud instead of calmly firm. You got to wonder how many men know where to strike the balance in all of this or even know they must be strong in a way a typical RW would appreciate. Not many I would suspect.

Maxx

[Wild Orchid*]

Hi guys,

Because of this there are older RW with older children who had to fight their hole lifes to survive in FSU. They did not have the protection or support of a strong man in terms of "family man" or husband. These RW are afraid to give control to any man and generally do not want to. If AM likes that then they will probably be O.K. with this kind of RW. But I would also like to say that this kind of
There are RW who are still young with small children who also had to fight to survive in FSU. But they did not fight so long that they forgot the dream to be a feminine woman.  You have said many AM are now in condition not to take charge with a woman ("nice guys"). This kind of AM will definitely not ever be O.K. with this kind of RW. If she wanted a husband already "condition" to be other than strong man then she could have stayed in FSU.

There are also RW like I was. Very young and not having to fight to survive yet. But we were not and are not stupid. We can watch and see the lives of RW all around us. And their relationships with RM including our mothers and fathers. We can see the hard lives of RW single moms. And we can see "old shoe" RW who are mad at all men and gave up on them as people. This kind of RW will be open to the idea of "equal partners" Western marriage. But because we are still RW, we still will want the Russian idea of a strong man. The idea and benefit of being an equal partner grows little by little over many years in the West.

I understand that "nice guy" AM are different than weak RM in area of responsibility, dependability, etc. In fact they are very responsible and dependable. But it is a big mistake for you to expect a RW from such a different culture to understand this. To us "weak" man is weak man and always will be. By the time a RW is able to appreciate the little differences or value of "condition" AM it will probably be too late. She will already have drove this AM crazy. You guys need to be strong with RW from the beginning. Bring "nice guy" into your relationships with RW slow and gradually. I beleive a man can be strong and nice guy at same time. I know my American husband is.

You are not much different from your husband. praise yourself cos nobody else will. Don't you think that one day you might be a single mother with the child to care for? And then what?  Will you become that RW who

  will never be truly happy and could abuse this AM to a certain point. This is because she did not really want to be the strong one but only had to be.

?
Do you really think that only those who married at 21-22 to man who is at her father’s age can be truly happy? Stop judging older women, you won’t be young forever.
Start looking for a foreign husband at the tender age of 17-18 - THAT IS a GRATE ESCAPE!

[Maxx2]

Olga's husband is a health and fitness enthusiast. He should last another 50 years what with the progress of modern medicine. Olga will be in her 70's and by his side when late 90 something Doug goes to his grand reward.

Maxx

[prince_alfie]

I liked what Olga said. Problem is for most men being "strong" evolves into being controlling and abusive in some way. They get loud instead of calmly firm. You got to wonder how many men know where to strike the balance in all of this or even know they must be strong in a way a typical RW would appreciate. Not many I would suspect.

Maxx

Well said. On a side note. In fact, I doubt that the concept of "metrosexual" would exist in Russia. A feminine man would turn off the ladies there.

[jb]

Once again, Alfie, you don't know WTF you are talking about.  Having been married to a RW for the past 5 years,,, I fully understand why Russian men love vodka.   

[Bruno]

Once again, Alfie, you don't know WTF you are talking about.  Having been married to a RW for the past 5 years,,, I fully understand why Russian men love vodka.   

Reverse experience... i was married during 5 year to a RW... She was drinking so much each Friday and Saturday evening that she was ill when she was back home... beeing married to a RW have learn me to hate alcohol...

Beware when a RW say that she drink socially... it mean that she drink only when she meet people... but RW meat new people each day... same about smoking... my previous RW was a light smoker... only a few sigarette by day... but you need to try the sigarette they smoke... in her case, it was "prima" cigarette... i am a big smoker of light sigarette but "prima" cigarette are more strong that the stronger western cigarette... it direct kill "mosquito"  10 meter around you... and if you walk in the smoke, you are down for 5 minutes...

Russian men don't love vodka, they have no choice 

[Haseki Hurem]

I drink socially. I drink a little only when I have to (on Birthdays, and occasions, when it's not really nice to drink nothing at all), but not anytime I am in a company. And lately I try to minimize this drinking too.

Bruno, you mean, that a WM will have to start drinking with a RW too?

[Bruno]

Bruno, you mean, that a WM will have to start drinking with a RW too?

Certainly not... if a RW is drinking too much, she have not more time for take care of her own children, so the husband become more responsible... i was a strong beer drinker when i was in Navy but my experience with previous RW have learn me that alcohol can make a lot of damage, other that the fact of drink only.

[Daknack]

I just needed to say that What Olga said about being strong applies to any woman at all.  That is regardless of nation of origin.  No woman... and I do mean NO WOMAN, will ever respect a weak male.  As much as a woman might "say" she would love a househusband its a total line of crap.  Women have certain wants... but they dont really mesh up well with what they NEED.

Women typically say they want a "Nice Guy" but they HATE and have no respect for nice guys.  A nice guy is only friend material, and if your too nice, a woman wont even want to be your friend.  Here in comes the paradox of the female mind:  They WANT the nice guy, they NEED the bad boy (aka someone that can create danger and excitement).  This is  because women are emotional animals, and men are logical.  You cant logically tell a woman why you belong together, she cant relate to that.  You have to connect on an emotional level, while creating a level of excitement (both good and bad emotions).  Alpha males are exciting and stong, Beta males are boring and supplicating.

Other than desperation (which is a subset of weakness), there is no stink on a male that smells more foul than weakness.  Even the most ardent feminist pairs up with males with more wealth and power than they.

This is a hard and cold lesson I have had to learn over the last several months.  Basically everything I was taught about women growing up was a lie (which kinda pisses me off).  Since I have changed my outlook on life, Ive had zero problem meeting, and hooking pretty much any woman I might be interested in (sans the few in realtionships that are loyal {PS Most women in relationships have next to no loyalty}).  The thing is the loyal women are pretty much taken (cause they dont leave or cheat).  The left over women might be very beautiful, but they are not very loyal.  Hence even though Ive no problem "getting" a woman here, it is a matter of quality (non-physical).

I liken a womans loyalty (at least here in the US for about 80% of females) to be like that of a rabid angry pitbull.  It will behave and show respect so long as you are strong, and in a superior position... the moment you drop your guard, your dog food.  Im sure this is gonna be a pretty contraversial post, but I dont care anyone that knows me knows I dont shy from contraversy.

Its less about a woman "respecting you" than a woman placing value on you.  As long as you are more valuable (non financial terms) than she is (at least in her eyes this is a case of perception as reality) she will treat you well and remain loyal (at least until someone that is more alpha come along who will invest as much or more than you).

Keep in mind this isnt all woman (amercian) but it does mean about 80% (and Im being very conservative).  In fact in the last 4 months I have come across one singe female that was TOTALLY loyal to her man.  I have alot of respect for that woman (she wasnt white I think like phillipino or something).

Oh well, I could write more but Ill let the hate posts and the accusations of mysogynist come in.

I am reminded by something Stirliz on the other board said once in response to a guy posting about his beautiful wife:

"If shes really that beautiful lock her in the basement and never let her out... once she knows it she will drop your ass.  Its the nature of women."

I didnt believe him then, but hes spot on.