Turboguy & Turbodude's First Dream tour

[Rim]

If you say FSU women wanted to talk about past women rather than your family, I guess that you raised the subject, dwelled on it, and misread their signals to “shut up”.

When a Russian woman asks about your past relationships, always pick the fewest number of words to answer the questions, and always follow with "and that is in the past."

Examples:
"We weren't compatible and that is in the past."

"She was unfaithful and that is in the past."

When most women (Russian, American or Marshian) ask you about your past relationships, they don't really want to know about the relationship, they want to know what you will say about the relationship, and based on what you say they will judge for themselves whether you are over it or not, and what kind of person you are.

[Turboguy]

I will go ahead and answer your questions now Albert.   

First.   The recommended way of doing it is to collect everyone's contact info right before you change tables then while you are changing let your interpreter know which you are interesting in persuing further and she can make a note about them on the contact info. 

Second, yes, many would ask how many cities you were doing or how many women you had met.  It is easy to answer something like I have met quite a few but not the right one until now or something complimentary.

Third,  You generally have about three days after the parties for follow up and you can often to several long dates with different gals.   Meet one in the morning and go to a museum, one for lunch and go to the art gallery, have a dinner meeting with another and so on.  Of course there are other meetings in there too.

I can't argue with the frenzied part.   I think after four cities we were ready to get away from it.   We thought about going onto Kherson but just really had all the really nice and attractive women that we could squeeze into our grey matter.

[Turboguy]

Here is a photo of the gals at my table at the Zap party.   The one on my right is the one I called the giant, the one in the blue jacket to my left is the one I called the Midget the one to my far left is the one I called the Nose. 

[Durk]

        Turbo who is the gal behind you in the brown dress? Is she your terp?
   What about her?

[Turboguy]

No, my terp was snapping the photo.  She was another gal at the table.  She was not sort or tall or have anything distinctive so I had not mentioned her where I did mention the others in my report.  Actaully she was a pretty nice gal and if there were more hours in the day I may have followed up with her too. 

[jinx13]

Turbo,

 Sounds like there wasn't enough hours in the day to follow up with anybody, so what was the point?

 Sorry, I just don't get it, was this just a "meet now and come back later" trip? You sorted out the ones you like and will have a follow up trip soon?

 Turbo, all this money you are spending on tours, and trips could have been spent in the U.S. and saved our economy! Just joking, but if you are so well off, why not just live in Russia or Ukraine for awhile? You would be sure to find somebody then, and also get a chance to be with her in her natural setting. Just a thought.

 By the way, my g/f thinks these tours are terrible, and she thinks it's not romantic at all, and "he must have self esteem problem to need all those women fighting for him at one table"  but then she mentioned how nice it must be for the ones who run these tours, and she wants to take your money too!    Typical Ukraine girl!

 I told her you seem like a nice guy, maybe just a little confused. I hope you find what your looking for, maybe just find a better way to make it happen. You're older than me though, so maybe you know what your doing, time will tell. 
 
                                                                                      Good Luck! - David

[PeeWee]

Turbo,

 Sounds like there wasn't enough hours in the day to follow up with anybody, so what was the point?

 Sorry, I just don't get it, was this just a "meet now and come back later" trip? You sorted out the ones you like and will have a follow up trip soon?

 Turbo, all this money you are spending on tours, and trips could have been spent in the U.S. and saved our economy! Just joking, but if you are so well off, why not just live in Russia or Ukraine for awhile? You would be sure to find somebody then, and also get a chance to be with her in her natural setting. Just a thought.

 By the way, my g/f thinks these tours are terrible, and she thinks it's not romantic at all, and "he must have self esteem problem to need all those women fighting for him at one table"  but then she mentioned how nice it must be for the ones who run these tours, and she wants to take your money too!    Typical Ukraine girl!

 I told her you seem like a nice guy, maybe just a little confused. I hope you find what your looking for, maybe just find a better way to make it happen. You're older than me though, so maybe you know what your doing, time will tell. 
 
                                                                                      Good Luck! - David

I might be wrong, David, but the benefit of the this tour is to meet, as you say, sort out what is hot and what is not, and then proceed from there. I see this tour as a time saver in that what Turbo has met are real women, as opposed to an Internet ghost. He has saved time and money because he knows each woman that he met is indeed a real woman, one who is sincere in finding a mate, and she is more than likely not a scammer. I figure is he should choose two or three from this meeting that he is months ahead of a guy who is plodding through profile after profile trying to figure out who to contact and if she is a real candidate, and will she contact him and then he has to travel to meet her for the first time. Turbo is beyond that stage, is he not?

Peevee

[Bruno]

I might be wrong, David, but the benefit of the this tour is to meet, as you say, sort out what is hot and what is not, and then proceed from there. I see this tour as a time saver in that what Turbo has met are real women, as opposed to an Internet ghost. He has saved time and money because he knows each woman that he met is indeed a real woman, one who is sincere in finding a mate,

and she is more than likely not a scammer

. I figure is he should choose two or three from this meeting that he is months ahead of a guy who is plodding through profile after profile trying to figure out who to contact and if she is a real candidate, and will she contact him and then he has to travel to meet her for the first time. Turbo is beyond that stage, is he not?

Do you seek a hot girl or a wife... these social can maybe allow you to choose a hot lady for the night but not a wife... for a wife, you need long and complex discussion that allow you to see if you are compatible for a long common life.... these little time with a lot of girls can be funny but in now way, you have the needed time for build a relation...

About scammer and social, i think that you have your share of scammer... i don't know how Jack organize his own social but i have already see in ukrainian newspaper advert who promote social with free drink and food... some tour organisation have not enough girls for all party and recruit all girls is possible, attracting them to a free party... these girls are not seeking a husband, some can already be married... they are there for the fun, the possible gift from foreign man, etc... some of the girls are pro-dater...

[Durk]

      David I think before you talk about the tour you might want to talk to
Jack Bragg and read his web site. You need to educate yourself a little. Jack has
a great deal of experience in Ukraine and is IMHO one of the few in this industry that
can provide a quality experience.
      Keep in mind too that many of us own businesses and our time is very important
to us. You just cannot run away from your company because you have been successfull.
      Turbo has also told us that this was his first time working with Jack. Let us
see how things unfold for him from here. Will another trip be necessary? Yes,but
you now have a good reason to go back.

[Turboguy]

David,

I have to echo the good responses of the others.   This was a trolling trip.   There is no way you are going to sit at a table for 12 minutes and start a K-1 with a gal.  If you don't don't come here and talk about it if you value your life.   There were 3 full days in most cities after the party.  There was lots of time for follow up.  The goal is to see what gal or gals you may want to make extended visits to.

As far as the party I think it compares most directly to looking through a web site at available gals or browsing a catalog.   There are a few differences though. 

With a web site you can see if you like the way she looks, if you think she has a nice smile, if she speaks English, if she has kids, smokes (good luck)  and a little more.   Then you follow that with months of correspondence and maybe a visit.

With the party you are going to spend 12 minutes with 60 gals, but 5 at a time.  It is enough to see if they smile and their eyes light up when they talk to you or if they stare off into space.  You can get as much info as you can from a web site but you are getting to see what kind of attitude they have when they tell you about their life.  You can sense how interested they are if they are the one asking you a lot of questions.  If you do like them you can invite them them to spend the rest of the evening with you and get to know them well.   Many people invite even so much as a full table out with them and get to know the gals better.   We often went the same place after the party so there are opportunity's there.  My son spent the better part of 3 days with the gal he liked the best.  I had some gals I was out with several times while I was in their city.  In my case I took the one I called the nose out every night while I was there and spent my days with the short redhead and one date with the tall blond.   There is time for followup.

[Bruce]

TG, I understand why you did not really like any of them in that picture, when you were in a room with alot of true eye candy, though if I had to pick one that looks ok with you I would vote for "the nose."   So, you are making the right choice.  I'm eager to hear how your son is now doing and what his plans are for follow up.  You can sure teach him alot about the FSU dating scene and suggest you front him his follow up trip in two three months if things correspond well with what he gained from his initial contact(s). 

TG, at the very least you had alot of fun.  For the dollars and the experience how would you rate your trip?   Is the whirlwind lets go to alot of small cities a better approach to concentrating on alot of girls in a particular location?  I have determined long ago that concentrating on one place at a time is best for me, but if you differ with my opinion, why so?  What percentage of the girls you and your son met do you feel are really in the "lets date a foreigner game" for the right reasons?  How many of these are really knowledgable or experienced with the ins and outs of the process it takes to date a girl and then to get her to the USA?  How many of them have really considered leaving Ukraine for the USA?   

[Turboguy]

I am sorry if I gave the impression that I did not like anyo of the ones in the photo.  Yes, "the nose" was one of my favorites for the trip.   The short redhead was also a really nice person.   I consider both of them to be cantidates.

My son has his number 1 choice and his number 2.   We are here trying to talk him into his number 2 as we think she is a much better gal for him.   Personally I think the whole thing revolves around the fact his number 1 gal necked with him a bit so he felt he had chemistry and his # 2 (our # 1) kissed him on the cheek once.   He only got to spend abut 5 hours with her.   

He was talking about going back in the spring for a follow up.  I suggested that someone else might snap her up in the meantime and told him not to worry about the money if he wants to go in November which is his plan.

[AC125]

Thanks Turbo guy and Dude, glad you posted, learned alot from your posts...I wish you and your son a whole bunch of luck with your potential ladies....I wished I was with you on Jacks trip and now I see the importance of such a service when your a green horn like myself....helps to speak the language....were the restaurants and food really that bad that you could not identify the chow, and Mickey D's could not have been the best food you had, could it...?  Well I actually do know quite a few and have lived with some Eastern Europeans and they seemed varied in there tastes, but I have never crossed into their home turf so I am very curious.....man it sounded like a grueling but cool trip....good work,,,,,

[Gator]

This and another post removed (it was a distraction to Turbo's TR) and placed in a new thread in Starters (Group Tour or Go Alone?)

[Michelangelo]

....were the restaurants and food really that bad that you could not identify the chow, and Mickey D's could not have been the best food you had, could it...?  Well I actually do know quite a few and have lived with some Eastern Europeans and they seemed varied in there tastes, but I have never crossed into their home turf so I am very curious....

The truth is that the food is very uneven here in Ukraine.  It ranges from fair to horrible.  

My mother-in-law here in Dnepr is a great cook, so I hear.  And when I eat her food it actually tastes ok.  But that is the first "helping."  Then she insists I eat more.  And more!  Bummer  

I don't think I will ever get used to this "food."  That is why I understand Turbo, who enjoys a so-so hamburger and great fries at McDonalds from time to time.  You need Mickey D's to balance the other "food" out :-)

[BC]

Here is a photo of the gals at my table at the Zap party.   The one on my right is the one I called the giant, the one in the blue jacket to my left is the one I called the Midget the one to my far left is the one I called the Nose. 

.. and the one behind you?  .. she seems to show the most interest.

[Turboguy]

Gator,

We are even because I have never gone alone and worked through a local agency, although the tour incorporated that as part of the package. 

1.  You are right, a group tour costs more than just going alone and working through agency's.   Of course having a staff helping you is good and has some value and most of the agency's gave us discounts that balanced off some of the extra cost.   I really think if you added the cost and divided it by the number of gals you were able to meet that it is cheaper on a per contact basis.   It is also nice when you find out at 8 pm that the gal you are meeting at 9 doesn't know a word of English and you have not arranged a terp to have a person you can call who will fix it.

2.  Alignment.  With a big agency tour I would agree with you, totally.   With this tour you have picked a lot of the gals you are meeting so many are exactly what you are looking for.

3.  Big agency tour, I agree, the women feel like cattle for sale.  The party atmosphere is not perfect but it is far better and every woman is talking to a man all the time and every man is talking to women all the time.   With the big agency's I see women who make a lot of effort, doll themselves up, maybe even travel for a day and never talk to anyone.

4.  I can find advantages to both. You don't have to cook breakfast, you don't have to make the bed, you can get your clothes washed and ironed.

5.  I did not have an occasion to have a gal come to my hotel room anyway.   The few who did seemed to have no problem with it.  Sometimes the hotel lobby or hotel cafe made a convenient meeting place when you are having meeting after meeting and the gals know where the hotels are and may have trouble finding the apartment.

6.  I am not sure I understand your point but if you find a gal you like you are going to have to come back anyway. 

Michaelangelo,   The worst meals were the breakfasts in Dnepr.   Slabs of bony fish that no one but me would eat and who knows what some of the other things were and the worst part is that city has no Mickey D's   I have had an occasional good meal but mostly just eat chicken because it is usually eatable.  May not taste good but won't be something I have to force myself to even look at. 

Yes, BC, the one behind me was very interested.  At first I was not too attracted to her but as time passed and she asked really good questions I got more interested.   I do have her contact info but while I was there I mostly spent my time with the others.

[groovlstk]

Michaelangelo,   The worst meals were the breakfasts in Dnepr. Slabs of bony fish that no one but me would eat and who knows what some of the other things were and the worst part is that city has no Mickey D's   

Turbo, I think there are 2 Mickey Ds that I know of along Karl Marx Ul. in Dnepr. One is near the Hotel Ukraine and the other near the train station.

Celentano's on Moskovskaya serves excellent coffee and perogies (Russian style) for breakfast, and it's the only place in all of Ukraine where I enjoyed the music. (They play an assortment of American jazz, 50s rock, and motown.

[Michelangelo]

Gator, why don't you delete this and start a new strand, Tours vs. Individual trip?

It detracts from Turbos trip report being posted here....

This is the story of his trip, not a debate about group tours.

I'll hold off reacting to your specific points of your post here to avoid further distractions here...

Michel


******************************************************************************************
GATOR:  Thanks for taking my suggestion and removing the long post from above and moving it to:the Starting Out section of RWD
******************************************************************************************

[Michelangelo]

Michaelangelo,   The worst meals were the breakfasts in Dnepr.   Slabs of bony fish that no one but me would eat and who knows what some of the other things were...

Hee hee, sad but true, Turbo.  I get so tired of fish for breakfast--bad tasting with lots of bones as you said.  It was so good to get away from our Black Sea resort where they fed us such crap and get into our own flat where I have good coffee and cereal.

[jinx13]

Michelangelo,

  I don't think Gator's post distracts from Turbo's thread here at all. I am not a newbie exactly (been to Russia and Ukraine) but I am still learning here, and that is valueable info about a tour vs self made trip.

 True it could be a topic in it's own, but I think it relates to Turbo's story, because I myself am wondering how much this cost Turbo, and was the money worth it?  I am not sold on the idea of tour's at all, whether it's Jack's or anybody else's. It's quantity vs quality in my opinion.

 I think the type of girls that would go to these socials are not the type for me. My girlfriend said the only reason she would ever go is for the nice FREE food. I don't think a normal self respecting girl would put herself in that situation, sitting at a table vying for the attention of a few select men. Women want to feel special, and this just seems sleazy to me.

 It's just my opinion, and I don't have any bad feelings for Turbo at all, it's his choice, and we all have had different experiences which guide us in the decisions we make. -  David

[Michelangelo]

It's just my opinion, and I don't have any bad feelings for Turbo at all, it's his choice, and we all have had different experiences which guide us in the decisions we make. -  David

"shrugs"
See my PM David; I'm not going to futher hijack this TR publicly.

[catzenmouse]

The very nature of a trip report is just that. A report of what happened while you were "in country". Turning it into a debate takes away from the report itself. I totally agree with Mike that this should be a new thread as it goes off on a side tangent that has nothing to do with the actual trip. Yes, there are some things that are of a similar nature but the basic premise is different.

Ken

P. S. Turbo, be careful you are close to becoming a "Professional Shopper!" 

[jinx13]

 Ok, I see your point about being a trip report, and not a debate. Still it was good for me to hear Turbo answer some of Gator's questions, and he answered mine too. I'm not really looking for a debate, just answers, and reasoning for his choices, that's all.

[Turboguy]

My apologies,   The bony fish and no Mickey D's was Lugansk not Dnepr.   With all the women swimming through my head I was too busy thinking about that to realize where I was. 

Don't worry Ken, my plan is to be starting to work my way towards the cashier soon.

I will write more later.  I have to drive to Louisville now.