Caught her cheating

[Photo Guy]

If a guy feels his wife is devoted to him and loyal, then there are no worries about his wife leaving him for another man. That's an envoronment of emotional security. It's a good thing. On the other hand, if you know your wife has affairs and is okay with cheating, there's an environment of emotional instability, tainted by the possiblity that your wife could choose to leave you for another guy.  ...Emotional security is important. When a couple devotes themselves to each other, it is a pragmatic decision. Open marriages are impractical.

[William3rd]

There is a social and cultural contract that a couple marrying has entered into. The way our various cultures have evolved over the years.

Stirlitz- I dont expect you to understand that based on the contents of one of your recent posts. But then, that issue is one of the things that your women complain about when they sign up with an agency.

For a woman to be breaking the contract through infidelity and then expecting her husband to honor his end of the deal-food, shelter, etc. is reprehensible.

[Maxx2]

I wrote this a while back about what to do during a trial

Here is some advice I gave a college professor accused of abuse by his foreign bride. He was 100% enonerated and even had the protective order thrown out. The judge in her statement told his wife she did not believe her. Many times a good defence ends like this. Just get a good attorney that knows this issue. Most do not. Also an expert witness like a retired INS official works nicely to educate the court as to the real issue why these charges are made. It brings in reasonable doubt.

Hello John:

I will keep this brief as I know you have little time and allot on your mind right now. I have to keep my advice generalized as I have little information about your case. I don't know for example if tomorrow is a hearing as you said or a civil trial for a restraining order. Either way I will give you my layman's advice on how to conduct yourself during this hearing or trial. Please though run everything I write here past your attorney first. It is very important that you work together in all things. I regret that I couldn't get this done sooner for you.

1) This is basic but I will state it. Make sure you present yourself in a clean cut respectable manner in regard to your clothing and grooming. Unfortunately you will be examined with the negative thought of the stereotypical man who married a mail order bride.

2) Get a copy of your attorney's questions he is going to ask you. You should read these and know exactly what you are going to say. This should be gone over with your attorney today or right before the trial. Preferable today with a review tomorrow morning. You need to rehearse this with your attorney before the trial. BTW he should show up well before you are asked to enter the courtroom. Having your attorney coming in late or last minute (as mine did) makes for a nervous time and you don't need that. Also keep in mind although your case maybe scheduled for say 10:30 AM, you maybe required to be seated quietly waiting when the court opens at 9:00 AM. Check this out with your attorney.

3) Make a list of things you want to be made known during the trial. Many times important details one needs to explain are not mentioned. It is up to you to make sure that what needs to be known is either stated by you or by your lawyer with his questions. As example, if you found out your wife had taken her child out of her country without her ex-husband knowledge and your recently learning this caused you to be suspicious of her character then find a way to get this into your testimony. Be careful about adding things that may be perceived as giving you reason to go into a jealous rage such as her adultery and e-mail contact with other men etc. Make no mention of any conversations with her about "sending her back" or about the INS deporting her. This is considered emotional abuse and possible blackmail used by you to control (abuse) her. Overall you want the judge or jury to get the impression that your wife is not truthful and that she has a conniving nature. This can be done with very quickly told anecdotal stories. The judges and prosecutors are much more restrictive with what your attorney can say than what you can say. So you are given more leeway than your attorney about saying certain things. That is why I say that the respondent/defendant can be his own best lawyer if he takes advantage of this situation. That is with his attorney's coordinated aid at letting one get the truth out.

4) Be prepared to defend yourself on why you married a woman from another country or someone you met over the internet. No, you will not be badgered by pointed questions in this regard. After all your accuser was part of that also. But how you met will come up. The negative stereotype of men who marry "mail order brides" (do NOT ever use that term in court) will come up in people's minds. It is best to soften this image with your own brief tender love story. If you went to Russia several times to visit her or got to know her over a year(s) mention that. I would avoid mention of marriage agencies as it seems too "mail order bride-ish". If they come up at all they were just someone you used to translate your letters that's all.

5) Make sure you are at your cognitive best. Get a good night's sleep. If you need to take something to get those 8 hours then do so. Just make sure it does not leave you sluggish the next day. So control the amount taken. You will need your wits about you. Caffeine or other taken in the morning may give you the needed edge. However you do not want to appear jumpy or high-strung during your testimony. Again control the amount taken. Six cups of coffee maybe too much.

6) If you have a spotless record in regard to criminal and civil matters make sure that is made known. If you have lived a life without ever having the police called on you or ever being arrested or accused of a crime then why is this happening to you now?

7) The judges and prosecutors need to be educated as to certain particulars of the INS spousal abuse petition. Most everyone in the courts know that abused immigrant woman are allowed stay in the US. What they don't know (usually) is that the INS requires "proof of official evidence of abuse" or "primary evidence" for this. What this exactly is has been defined by the INS on it's website,

Quote off of INS website:
Evidence of the abuse, such as reports and affidavits from police, judges and other officials, medical personnel, school officials, clergy, social workers, and other social service agency personnel. If you have an order of protection or have taken other legal steps to end the abuse, you should submit copies of those court documents.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Form I -360 Instructions (Rev 10/26/05 ) Page 2
http://uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/I-360.htm

There is precious little time during a trial to educate the judge and jury as to her need to get "official evidence of abuse" for the INS. Effort should be made to impress upon the court that they are being used. In other words that she is pulling a fast one. That if they give her what she wants (official evidence of abuse) they are aiding her in her continuing crime... Mention that by her getting "official evidence of abuse" she will be given by the INS, United States Citizenship at an accelerated rate. A brief statement of this in a long sentence should be worked into one of the answers your attorney asks.

Also be prepared for the statement that your wife knows little about immigration matters and certainly nothing about this abuse petition. The prosecutor may even ask you if you have discussed using an abuse charge. This is a trap! If you have discussed abuse for a greencard with her that would indicate that you did abuse her. Explain that your wife has had many conversations some that last for hours about immigration matters. That her status to legally stay in America is by either "by living with you in a boni fide marriage for two years or claim to the INS that she is abused by you" 23 words... Isn't logical that she would know about these only two options the INS gives (BTW always say INS not USCIS as few people know the other) during her hours of conversation with her immigration savvy Russian friends?

Your demeanor is very important during your trial. No matter how much you are pushed or provoked by the prosecution or by your wife's testimony do not react. Your irritation of what you see and hear will not be seen as righteous indignation but rather your inability to control yourself. Avoid shaking your head, rolling your eyes or groining no matter how outrageous the statements or questions are. Never cope an attitude with the prosecutor. Purport yourself like Mr. Rogers.

9) Be prepared to hear some outrageous lies. If your wife told you stories about her previous husband's abuse expect to rehear them in court. Only this time with your name attached to them. Every effort will be made to portray you as a monster. Expect to hear about your insults to her as a woman or belittling her country as "Third World". Threats towards her, her children, her pets and yourself. Forced sex (spousal rape) and during menstruation or by anal. Expect even innocent sweet things that happened during your marriage to be twisted and made to appear obscene. She will say she was afraid to go to the police and didn't know where else to go to escape you. All this will be very well rehearsed. The prosecutor will say in his or her summation that her details prove that these things really happened. You will need to correct several of these details to show that the other details also have rational explanations. It would be a mistake to point by point correct everything she said if it involves many accusations.

10) Portray yourself for what you are, an innocent duped victim. It was you who got scammed (don't use this word) and deceived. Don't worry about appearing foolish. You had good intentions but she didn't.

11) Never admit to be depressed. Depression can be twisted to make it seem possible that you changed somehow, that when you become depressed you become violent. If asked admit only to your sadness that your marriage was ending and nothing more.

12) Get any firearms out of your house. Perhaps it is too late for you to do this but I would turn over any guns, rifles or swords over for safe keeping to a third party under a legal contract to keep them from you for a certain period of time, say two years. Having an easily obtainable gun by you and this coming out during trial practically guarantees that the judge will issue a restraining (protective) order. By Federal law the ownership of firearms or swords is prohibited. From the website www.DVmen.org

From the time the protection order is imposed until it is cleared from all databases it is a violation of Federal law 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(8 and 9) to purchase, acquire, or be in possession of firearms or other dangerous weapons, e.g., swords, grenades, explosives, ammunition, etc. This is a felony with a mandatory minimum of 5 years in federal prison if convicted.
Collectors items are held to be in this category as well. "In possession" generally means in the same room as, or in close proximity to. If you are visiting a friend and they have a gun collection, you are in violation and could be sentenced to five years (minimum) in prison.

If you have a gun collection, swords, etc., the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE) approved method of storage after issuance of a protection order or being charged with domestic violence is with an attorney, with the police or sheriff, or with an approved firearms dealer. Have a friend or relative collect them for you and remove them to an approved storage location until after you are sure the protection order has been lifted and your name removed from the state and federal databases. That will usually require a separate motion to the court or personally carrying a certified copy of the court order of dismissal


I hope this helps. Let me know how it went.

[William3rd]

Yo Happy- That piece is pretty good advice.

One other piece or two of advice- follow your attorney's game plan. ANSWER the questions and do not start with Genesis. Do not ADD jabs or flame out on the stand.

How did things go with your attorney today?

[Stirlitz]

Am I correct in thinking you're in an open marriage and you have no problems with your wife being intimate with other men whenever she feels like it?

Yes. It is not a problem for me as long as it does not compromise our family life too much like spending all the time going out. I do not care what she does for fun.

Open marriages are impractical.

You are probably right, but that is not what I am trying to comprehend.

No one seems to have an answer.

[William3rd]

oops- finger just found the magic button. Oh darn.

[jb]

Mine too.

[ConnerVT]

And three.  Why didn't I think of it before?  Thanks for the reminder.   

[Erwin]

And four....darn..what a crazy character b......ttt...

Best,

E

[BillyB]

Happiness, like Maxx and Jooky, I remember your story. A lot of good people told you to get out of the marriage. There were too many red flags. I know you tried your best to make the marriage work but she didn't love you and was using you.

Wasn't she the psycho who tore up the garden to give you a visual on how her heart feels?

Protect your assets, sell them or get it out of your name if an attorney advises you. If you live in a "no fault" State, she will be entitled to a good chunk of your assets with no penalty from her infidelities. She will probably get more than an American woman would in your short marriage. Not many judges will put her in the poor house so she could get on government assistance at taxpayers expense when you are the one who brought her over here. Take my words seriously. I know guys who payed dearly. You're probably going to pay dearly too. Ask your attorney on how you can protect yourself now before divorce papers are filed.

[Jumper]

Billy , i agree with your advice to happiness--
and playing the befuddlerd immigrant with poor english skills and little job oppurtunity would get her far i'm sure--



however-

Not many judges will put her in the poor house so she could get on government assistance at taxpayers expense when you are the one who brought her over here.

surely a judge in such cases knows the law ? otr would be remindeed by a decent attorney,
that happiness signed a affidivate of support,, that woulds make any govb'ment assitence able to be taken directly from the sponsor-him..
not the burden of taxpayers.

I realize this woulbnt effect the outcome of a court case,,
but the spoonsor does indeed sign and accept this responcibilty on the immigrants behalf?
*shrugs*

[William3rd]

I864 Affidavit of Support. Te effect of this document is currently being litigated in several states. There is no dispute that the affidavit requires support of the alien if the alien uses means-tested benefits-usually reimbursement of the benefits to the government. Now these lawyer types in the family courts are trying to give it an all new meaning beyond what Congress intended.

[Maxx2]

It is my understanding Happiness has his trial scheduled for January 2nd. I believe it is a civil trial as there is no "rules of evidence" happening before it. He has to wait and see what she will say against him and what witnesses she might bring. IMO these types of trials are like being legally bushwhacked. A guy and his attorney has to be prepared for anything and to be able to think fast on their feet.

What have noticed is that allot of these cases the guys are charged with spousal rape. Usually this supposedly happened weeks/days before the marriage breaks up. The cases where this is believed is when the woman calls 911, makes the charge to the police and she is taken to the hospital for examination. Where they make an abuse charge and then add "Oh and he raped three weeks ago" are usually not believed by the judge. ( Is that your understanding William? )

I came to conclusion the real reason this charge is made is

1) it is used to frighten the accused to take a plea bargain.

2) It is used to prejudice the unsophisticated and the gender biased.

3) It's the woman's way to get one last cheap shot at her husband and maybe shake him up a little.



My advice is to

1) make sure to go over the questions before hand with the attorney and make sure that certain details are going to be covered.

2) present any evidence that she is not in the marriage for the marriage but for immigration benefits. Copies of her dated website profile with photos that she did while here in America will help but they must be translated first. I would find a certified and court recognized translator that could do this over the weekend for perhaps an extra fee.
 
3) Also making it clear that a protective order is the main evidence that is needed by the INS for her to get her self-petition approved. That this is her motive for doing all of this.


I wouldn't worry about the Affidavit of Support at this time. In rare cases divorce attorneys have used them. I know of a case in Indiana where this happened but it is pretty rare. It's the DV charge he has to concern himself with now. 

Maxx

[William3rd]

So he has temporary orders in effect until the hearing? I am missing a procedural step to the hearing. Did she get possession of the house? Everything that Maxx is talking about is pretty close to what I would say.

In the facts of this case, she needs a plea bargain or conviction to maintain her VAWA claim. So, I think her aim is #1.

Speaking from a CA standpoint, rapid hearing on restraining orders where an exparte has been filed are the norm. Our standard is clear and convincing on the burden of proof. Has she filed a divorce yet?

Stick with your lawyer's game plan. Get losts of rest and be ready to testify.

Make no effort to communicate with her in any way even if she initiates the communication. Stay out of her area wherever it is. If you see her before the hearing, run away. When I had this problem nine years ago, I had friends with me practically 24/7 just to make sure that my location was verified at all times.

Specific questions, you can PM me with. I will be around all weekend.

Good luck! Do NOT surrender

[happiness]

Thanks to everyone who posted especially Maxx and William.  I'm in a quiet period right now because I don't want to reveal anything before my court date.  I have taken all the advice that has been offered this time (like I should have 14 months ago) and I have all my ducks in a row.  With a little bit of luck and a good lawyer I may be able to post an update next week.  Otherwise I will be evicted from my house for 18 months.

BillyB - Nope, that garden story wasn't from me.

[Maxx2]

Too late for Happiness on this but this is something I wrote a while back to avoid the false DV charges. 7 and 8 are essentually what William said.

1) Get to a good attorney right away that knows the issues of divorce with a woman who has not secured her immigration status. Most attorneys do not have a clue about these issues and could make your exit based on their advice very risky. Keep all records of your consultation visits. You may need them later.

2) Keep your mouth shut about a divorce to your immigrant wife or to any of her friends.

3) File first. Abusive people do not consult attorneys or file the divorce first thus letting her go. They use abuse to hold on to their spouses.

4) Separate in a non confrontational manner. Do it while she is away shopping and not around. Have a woman relative or friend be with you when you moving your things out.

5) Most people balk at the idea of letting the spouse stay in the house. Remember if it is your premarital asset or that you are paying the mortgage in the divorce settlement she will eventually have to leave this house. It is far better to sleep on your sister's couch that go through a difficult dv trial. One fellow I know had his Russia wife wanting him to set her up with an apartment in a distant city. He said "no" and all hell broke loose. In retrospect he said he wished he had set her up in another city, filed the divorce and ended his support of her AOS.

6) Have a professional process server process serve her when she returns. Be no where near her when this happens.

7) Keep your location of where you a living a secret. It is during these time false incidents of DV are created out of thin air. But if she doesn't know where you are or who you are with (alibi) then it makes it difficult and risky for her to create this phony evidence.

8 ) Do not contact her in any way or have any of your friends do likewise. Only contact should be by your attorney with hers. Your attorney cannot contact her directly. These are times that really test your mind over your heart. Resist all sentimental feelings of giving her one more chance. You will put yourself at great risk if you do. Do I need to say why? At this point her day to day concerns and needs are not your concern. The court will not look favorable on any contact by you. Any support to her you volunteer will be used by her attorney in court to have this continued.   

9) Remember at some point you will either be in a court room or sitting in front of a divorce attorney defending yourself. It will be your careful exit and careful actions after the exit that will prove you are not a person to worry about. If you find yourself in a dv trial it will be your attorney and yourself stating these facts of your careful exit that will either eliminate or reduce the damages the court will impose on you. That is why I say keep good records of attorney consultation visits and efforts to let her go.

10) After the dust settles your nerves will be shot and your distrust of people of the opposite sex will be high. I suggest not letting this become a permanent feeling. Find someone who is Russian woman (if your ex-spouse is a RW) to talk with and e-mail. This helps in getting over those biases. Then take a good hard look at yourself for the things that you might have done wrong. Don't beat yourself up over it just change it. Perhaps you were too much in need for love and the instant gratification of an internet romance filled it for you? There needs to be a good self analysis and correction before plunging back into this. Without doing so you might find yourself marrying the same kind of person you did before. "Swim like a wounded fish and you will attract the sharks". That is especially true in the FSU internet dating scene. Be whole and know what you are doing before you do it again.

Maxx

[Vaughn]

Maxx,

 Re: No. 2
 
I would suggest avoiding ANY communication at all with her
friends. Even the most innocent of remarks has become a
man's undoing.

These posts, although touching on the side to which most don't
like to lend thought, have been eye-opening for me. Thanks.

[Maxx2]

Yes Vaughn it gets pretty crazy during those times.

As far as number two, I guy has to keep up appearances while the papers are being drawn up. He doesn't want his wife to know that the end might be near. He's got to play clueless and let her think a big payday for her is right around the corner. When it was happening to me (the time right before the divorce filing) my ex-wife and I were "shopping" for houses together. I had no intention of buying a house with her as my divorce attorney told me "Whatever you do, do not NOT buy a house together". He also said a DV charge was a "100% probability". He was a recommended divorce attorney by some immigration attorneys I had secretly consulted with. He also recommended that I use Elena Garretts detectives to do a background check on my ex and to check out what was confirmed as a phony real estate deal she had going with her mother to scam some money ($3,800) out of me. I used the detective's information during divorce negotiation to get her to drop all financial demands. She ended up having her mother send some of the money back and she bought some train tickets and headed out East and more than a thousand miles away from me, thank God. Who but us guys who go through this kind of stuff can identify with this?

Maxx     

[Vaughn]

Newbies, if she begins asking about the face value of your
life insurance policy, consider that a red flag.....

[William3rd]

or- if she tells you her friend is getting a divorce and she asks you to explain US divorce law using you as an example.

0r- if she starts asking about life insurance and you start noticing physical changes in yourself after she cook. . . .


BTW- the warning signs are always there in advance. You may not see them before you marry but they are always there.

Little unexplained things that only fit together after disaster strikes.

[catzenmouse]

Newbies, if she begins asking about the face value of your
life insurance policy, consider that a red flag.....

So that's why she had me kick the policy up to a million. Funny how everything seems to have a bitter almond aftertaste...

[KenC]

or- if she tells you her friend is getting a divorce and she asks you to explain US divorce law using you as an example.

0r- if she starts asking about life insurance and you start noticing physical changes in yourself after she cook. . . .


BTW- the warning signs are always there in advance. You may not see them before you marry but they are always there.

Little unexplained things that only fit together after disaster strikes.

William,
Now there is a good topic for a new thread, I ever saw one.  Want to give it a go?
KenC

[William3rd]

Hey KenC-

Happy New year. Good idea. I think I will do that. I may need a day or so to think up the beginning and refresh my memory. But-I agree. This would be an interesting thread to start.

I can incorporate my own personal experiences along with the 100+ anecdotal accounts of explosive failures and kind of go through it all.

Any ideas for a good title?

[KenC]

Red flags that should not be ignored?

[Vaughn]

How about ICBMs? Life insurance and
divorce law are grave matters....