Caught her cheating

[Jooky]

William, you know more about these matters than I do, but advising annullment without knowing the details seems risky to me. I hope Happiness has found a good attorney as we speak and he tells the whole situation in honest detail.

By his own admission, this woman did not hide her dissatisfaction. She was ready and willing to go home. She stayed and married him at his insistence. Fraud will be hard to prove when she can claim she acted out of fear and it sounds like she's been building a case for that.

[Turboguy]

jb,  I will explain that in more detail later when I have more time.  In either case that I mentioned it is a hopeless situation.   If someone is of low moral fiber they are not worth forgiving.  If someone is trapped in a marriage they feel makes their life hopeless and meaningless the marriage is too far gone to save.   I never said to forget and give them another chance.

I think happiness at heart is a good guy but on the other hand from what I read you have someone who treated her like a princess.  Let's see he kicked down the bathroom door, put a key logger on the computer, stalked her boyfriend.   He says he didn't shake her but he does seem a bit physical.  I really think he needs to get his emotions under control or he will only be able to post from the jail library.

[William3rd]

I think I am agreeing with JBs analysis here.

There is NO excuse for cheating in a marraige. If she wants to divorce AND leave(taking the consequences), then that is one thing. To have affairs and remain in the household gaining sustenance from the marriage is outrageious conduct. To live a lie continuously like this one did- sounds like a psychopathic personality to me.

I do not understand how anyone can make excuses for this whore. I have been there before with my ex wife. Had the same thought processes that I am hearing too-until I found out about all the other guys and all the little pieces of the puzzle came together.

Perhaps while we are here we should bewail the fate of poor Scott Peterson. After all, he just needs some understanding. Obviously Lacey didnt give him what he needed. . . . .

This woman was a green card whore from day one. The sooner we can get her a plane ticket home, the better off this country will be.

As a side note to Jooky-annulment is definitely on the table and is a discussion that he should have with his attorney, who is in his jurisdiction. Short duration marriage and those emails to mom from before the marriage are devastating evidence. Marrying out of fear-hmmm. Was she locked up at night? She was outside the home cheating and staying out working. At any time, she could have left in fear. Only after she was caught did she suddenly become afraid.
Failing on an annulment gives you a divorce case. An annulment terminates the marriage as if it had never been. Judicial decision of annulment based on fraud kills the VAWA since you need a marriage in good faith to succeed on a VAWA claim.

[jb]

T/G,

No explaination you could give will excuse this kind of behavior.

I never said Happiness was the pillar of mental stability,,, he is the one who said he treated her like a Princess, not me. He also admits he saw red flags and ignored them,,, he rolled the dice and married her anyway.  He was impulsive and desperate for love, she was not. She was only desperate for a mule.  Am I the only one who sees the overall here?  I think not.

I have seen multiple threads here, and especially on the RWG in the old and honest days, where guys were absolutely flamed for dating hookers, gold diggers and good time girls.  You can't tell me a hooker or a good time/gold digger girl will reform and make a good wife,,, unless she is a really dumb hooker and the man is equally stupid.

This essentially goes back to the "One Week Wonder" syndrone,  men proposing to women they don't know well enough.  This cannot be stressed enough.  Marry a woman without knowing her agenda and she's apt to screw you everytime.

[Jooky]

He had knowledge of those emails prior to marrying. She was not telling her friends and family about her devious plans to marry then dump this guy, she was telling them she did not love this man and could not marry him. She admitted this all to his face. Hard to prove fraud when he was the one fooling himself, not her.

How they did end up married I have no idea.

Don't get me wrong. I am not defending this woman. I find her actions deplorable. I don't think she acted out of fear, but she can build a case for it and our society likes to cry over such poor victims. I have to condemn happiness' actions as well and I am sure there is much more to this story. I agree, he needs to discuss all with an attorney and be completely honest.

William, I see your point about getting rid of this woman. We don't need these type of people in our country, hence the annulment advice. What I'm saying is that happiness needs to look out for himself first in this case.

[Rvrwind]

There is NO excuse for cheating in a marraige.

Actually at one point in our history it was a hanging offence & rightly so!!
In some countries (not sure which ones) but people were stoned for it. No they didn't buy them pot or crack, they threw rocks at them & with much vigor I might add. Adultery no mater what the reasons is an unforgivable offence, BTDT. If she wanted out then she should have stepped up & said she wanted out, but to remain & do this is unforgivable & should not be tolerated.
Of course some pussy whipped lawyer will take her case & some mamby pamby judge will make her out to be the victim.
When are people going to start standing up & taking responsibility for their actions?

[jb]

JB is right on the money.

That isn't always the case, but it's nice to hear anyway, thanks for the vote of confidence.  In the case of Happiness, i don't know how he could have screwed things up any worse.  I'd just like to bring all this to the attention of the relative newbie, to get them conditioned, so to speak, for the hazards that exist before them.

Not all of those sexy RW and UA ladies have your best interests at heart, sometimes they have their own best interests in mind. Hard to say who is going to win.

[happiness]

Just to address some points - William3rd I will have to do some more research on the annulment because my lawyer didn't mention that as an option in Pennsylvania.  Thanks for the heads up.

The purpose of confronting the man she was cheating with was two things:
1) to give me some peace of mind
2) to determine his identity so I can hire a private investigator

In Pennsylvania, there are three types of divorce:
1) Fault - one spouse proves adultery or other fault of the other spouse in a trial
2) No fault uncontested - both spouses sign the papers and its done.
3) No fault contested - one spouse won't sign the papers and after two years the divorce is granted

Can you imagine having to wait two years for a no-fault contested divorce for a marriage that only lasted one year?  So I really need to build a more solid case for a fault divorce, hence the PI.

Jooky, jb and Maxx - You don't have all the facts correct but you are right about many things.  I hope someone can learn from my mistakes.

To everyone who referred to stalking - no that is not happening.  Stalking and harrassment require repeated and consistent actions.  To confront someone one time and not make any threats or assault is not stalking.  Has our world become so PC that a man can't confront another man without being labeled a stalker?  He could have been a big dude.  He could have kicked my ass.  I'm not too proud to admit I was afraid.  I wanted to look him in the eye and tell him what a piece of shit he was.  Sure, she was more guilty then he was.  But that doesn't mean he was innocent.  If he had been innocent, I would have expected him to talk about it like a man with a clear conscience, but instead his actions and words confirmed that he had something to hide.

[Turboguy]

Stalking does not require more than one episode in Pennsylvania happiness.   I know of one episode where a guy saw a girl he was attracted to in a mall, followed her around the mall, followed her to her car and followed her home.   She called the police, he was arrested, tried and convicted of stalking.

To me, his actions and words did not seem to confir that he had something to hide.  It confired to me that he was scared to death.

[Photo Guy]

You needed peace of mind? In the middle of a storm? :hairraising:
You didn't need to confront him to setup a private investigation.
I could be wrong, but I think you can arrange for a P.I. to
track your wife without any info about her new boyfriend.
A  P.I. would do all of the work and have a more objective
view of the situation, turning up factual evidence of her
cheating. Don't let your anger make the situation worse.

...What were her qualities that you fell in love with?

[Jooky]

Let's take a step back for a minute.

The title of this thread is Caught her cheating. Fact is you did not catch your wife cheating. This is why you want peace of mind.

Let me see if I have this clear:

Your wife has been fully away from home five days out of the week claiming this is due to her work that consists of her travelling to towns within a 4 hour radius.

You found out that this was a lie and that your wife was working 20 minutes away.

- How did you find this out?
- When did you find this out?

Two nights ago when this confrontation happened you found her car in this town 20 minutes away.

- How did you find her car in this town at night? Or did you already know where she worked at this point?

-Your description of this event sounds like your wife knew you were following her even before this man showed up. Is it possible that she spotted your car in the parking lot in the same way that you spotted hers?

You found her and confronted her at a gas station. You threatened to phone the police and told her not to go home. She did go home. I assume you were there already. Then you say the police came and she came and she took some stuff.

- Who phoned the police?
- Did she arrive with the police? Or before them?
- Was there a second confrontation at this point?
- Is this when you broke down the bathroom door? Or is that an entirely separate event?
- If the bathroom door incident and this confrontation are two separate events where she phoned the police on you, and the confronting of her man-friend a third, are there other times when she has phoned the police on you?

The next night you waited in the same parking lot next to this man's car. This man works with your wife, correct? Again it is painfully obvious that this man and your wife were aware that you were there waiting.

- Did you speak with a Private Investigator regarding your situation and ask what kind of information you would need?
- Why would you have a Private Investigator follow this man and not your wife?

Sorry, but it sounds like you were seeking a confrontation with this man. I really don't blame you for that. Your Private Investigator excuse sounds like a load of horse*snip*.

For all you know this pathetic quivering man is just some co-worker who your manipulative wife has dragged into this situation.

If he's not a co-worker, you are being set up.

From all that you've said it's obvious that this woman does not love you and should not have married you. This is clear. However:

-Your wife made a to do list which included: a good lover. That does not sound like something a woman that does have a good lover would do. The top three items of her list show that she was looking to leave you and become independent from you. Looks like she managed to get a job, a car and possibly an apartment. Did you confront her about this list?

-Your wife put an recent ad in a Russian bridal agency with her location back in Russia. This is months after she started lying about her work and staying clear of you 5 days a week. Why would she do this if she had a lover already? Why would she put an stating she is in Russia and not just meet men through American sites? Again did you confront her about this? Or have you just been letting these things build up for the entire year?

Sorry this behavior doesn't sound like a woman who is cheating. It sounds like a woman who is looking to replace her husband but has not yet found a replacement. It even sounds like a woman who is ready to go home and start all over. Maybe that's exactly what her friends and family have been advising her to do.

Your wife had an opportunity to file false domestic violence charges, but she didn't. If she was planning false charges to obtain a green card she missed a perfect opportunity.

- What has your attorney advised? Surely not to hire a Private Investigator to follow this man.
- Why would your wife contest the divorce? Isn't the first step to see if she will just sign the papers and get it over with?

There is too much missing from this story.

[Mir]

'You can't tell me a hooker or a good time/gold digger girl will reform and make a good wife,,, unless she is a really dumb hooker and the man is equally stupid.'

Every situation and scenario is different and generalizations are never correct. Even the worst criminals can reform.Saying that women who are driven into the oldest profession by economic needs(sometimes even forced into it),or do some other wrongs will never make a good woman/wife is a hard and inflexable statement.
Suggested reading:
A Short History of Tractors in Ukrainian by Marina Lewycka

[Bruno]

Can you imagine having to wait two years for a no-fault contested divorce for a marriage that only lasted one year?  So I really need to build a more solid case for a fault divorce, hence the PI.
...
Has our world become so PC that a man can't confront another man without being labeled a stalker?

Yes, the world is become PC... if you was French and if we was before 1970, the passion crime was more easy that a divorce...

In some countries, notably France, crime passionnel (or crime of passion) was a valid defense during murder cases; during the 19th century, some cases could be a custodial sentence for two years for the murderer, while the spouse was dead; this ended in France as the Napoleonic code was updated in the 1970s so that specific father's authority upon his whole family was over.

...

In Pennsylvania, there are ...

...

In the United States, laws vary from state to state. For example, in Pennsylvania, adultery is technically punishable by 2 years of imprisonment or 18 months of treatment for insanity . That being said, such statutes are typically considered blue laws, and are rarely, if ever, enforced.

Just problem is need to prove that aldultery was existing... some quote from http://www.divorcelawinfo.com/PA/padivexpln.htm

Adultery is sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than the spouse. In Pennsylvania, neither cunnilingus nor fellatio, which the law defines as sodomy, is a ground for divorce and generally neither is considered adultery. The sexual intercourse must involve some penetration of the female organ by the male organ, but a "completion" of the sexual intercourse is not required.

HOW TO PROVE ADULTERY

There probably is no such thing as a pleasant adultery case; because names, dates, places, paramours, and the like have to be brought out in the open. If your spouse no longer cares about what you know and is open about the affair, you're lucky. You can then catch your spouse flagrante delicto, which means you have your spouse in the flagrant wrong and may not have to worry about hiring detectives. However, you may still need a detective to prove your case in court. There is still a need for a corroborative witness, such as a mutual friend or neighbor, who has no stake in the matter except telling the court what he (she) witnessed.

Most adultery cases are proven by circumstantial evidence, which means that you have to establish that your spouse had the disposition and opportunity to commit adultery.

Public displays of affection, such as hand-holding, kissing, and hugging, between the guilty spouse and the paramour are generally sufficient evidence to indicate an adulterous disposition. Opportunity may be proven by showing that your spouse was seen entering the paramour's apartment at 11 P.M. and not coming out until 8 A.M. the following morning and that they were alone. If you can only prove disposition but not opportunity, the courts may not allow your divorce because the court may reason that it is just mere speculation. The same is true if you only show that there was opportunity, but cannot prove disposition. When you think about it, this seems to make sense.

In your case, a other problem appear since it seem that you was knowing everything she make :

CONDONATION

Generally, if you knew your spouse committed adultery but continued to live and cohabit with your spouse, then adultery cannot be used as a ground. Once you resume marital relations, after you learned of the adulterous act, the courts feel that you have forgiven, or "condoned," the act. But, if your spouse starts having affairs again, you can then sue on grounds of adultery. Or, if your spouse has had several affairs and you knew of and condoned only one, you may file on adultery regarding the newly discovered affairs.

You are now in Hell... don't try to fight the devil... simply try to find a way out of Hell

[Maxx2]

It's my guess that she and her "friends" are building a case for domestic abuse. Their only burden is they have so much material to work with. These women's advocates do not always work fast. Sometimes they will take several weeks to put together their case for a temporary restraining order to present to a judge for signature. Then it is on to the hearing for the civil or criminal trial. No doubt the door has been photographed, her statement taken, the statements of the police and the police reports of the two incidents gathered, statements from the boyfriend/co-worker and other witnesses added to the evidence.

Using me as an example for the above.
I secretly filed the divorce on July 10th 2003
Told her about it (BIG mistake) on July 13th
She upon advice from her RW friend went to a shelter the morning of July 14th
The shelter filed her temporary P.O. with a judge July 22nd
I was process served July 25th
My civil trial was July 30th
For my going to her and telling her about the divorce I was charged with but not convicted of stalking. 

My advice is NEVER confront but secretly figure the situation out then secretly make plans for an exit out of such marriages. The police and judges respect a guy who calmly, methodically and most of all uses legal resourses to get themselves out of a bad situation. Happiness seems to have watched too much of "The Rockford Files". This is the first time I have ever heard of a car chase in one of these cases.


Maxx   

[Daknack]

If you believe there is truly forgiveness after adultery, when a woman has demonstrated a complete lack of respect for her husband,,, and for herself,,, then you are truly a 14 kt, gold plated, fool.  Once a woman has violated the sanctity of her marriage bed there's no turning back.  Unless the husband is a total wimp and completely desperate and has no self esteem what-so-ever.  Believe me, if she does it once, she'll do it twice and a third and a fourth.  She has shown you her true character, how many times can a man forgive a faithless whore?

Kick the b!tch to the curb ASAP.

Agree with JB

[lawman65]

Is it me, but do I read  about Russian/Ukrainian women cheating once they get here. Take a poll from all members and find out what the % is. I am in the final stages of having my special lady visit K1.
Also, I seem to notice that most FSU women are somewhat aggressive. Not all, but most. How about a poll on that. I have been a member here and all I hear are these stories on men going on 2nd, 3rd, marriages. Are FSU women a bad choice?

[Turboguy]

Bad FSU women are always a bad choice.

I think you would have a hard time getting a representative sample of cheating FSU women.   I have a feeling we would have a smaller sampling of those for two reasons.   The ones who make poor choices are less likely to be here or to know what they really should be doing.   The ones who experienced may have gotten discouraged enough to hang up their passport.

I am in the final stages of having my special lady visit K1.

I think I will beat some sense into your head with a wet noodle for the statement that she will do a K-1 visit"  I will leave you in one piece.  I think when some of the others hear your terminology they may tar and feather you.   The K-1 is not for a visit.

Well, Aggressive is one term, direct is another.  For some people an FSU woman could be a terrible choice for others a wonderful choice.  One size doesn't fit all.

[jb]

T/G

I think if lawman65 really is a lawman he would know that part of the submission for a K-1 is a sworn statement that he and the lady are ready, and intend to marry.  I don't think many lawmen would knowingly make a false statement to the government.  There are penalties for lieing and swearing to it.  I caught that point but dismissed it as simply a badly worded post.

I hope so, anyway.

[Turboguy]

Yes, I am sure no one would ever make a false statement to the government for anything, their love, their income taxes etc.  After all the government is there to help us and works non stop to make our life perfect and wonderful. 

I also thought that it was bad terminology and not someone abusing the system.   Beating him over the head with a wet noodle will not cause too much lasting damage but I thought it was good to point out the bad terminology for the sake of newbies floating through with their sponge like minds.

[lawman65]

JB,
You would be surprised how often it is done.

[Jumper]

lawman-

as far as RW cheating-
i wouldnt think it any different than on average in the west..

notr scientific ..
but we know quite a few couples,,
none that we know of cheat , even though some are in
 marriages they are very unhappy in.
the ones we know of ending, havnt been due to cheating on either persons part..*shrugs*

as far as noticing *it* on a messge board geared towards this process, not to stir up "craaap"
but it would be expected by most people  to be higher?

The nature of this business leads to the average situation of couples in rough transition times, who do not know each other all that well,
 or each others cultures well.
Thier relationships on *average* likely arnt as stable the first years as a more traditional situation?
less stable=   ???

while *on average* a more traditional long term engagement/ relationship might be more stable initially,
 but without care and consideration ,or simply from apathey/boredom , slide later into being less than stellar..


obviuosly those are silly big generalities ,
that never amount to much,,

but on a message board geared towards quick marriages ,
of relative strangers,
i would actually expect far more tales of marriage breakdowns or cheating,
 than we typically hear of..??

just MHO
*shrugs*

[happiness]

An update for anyone who cares...
I changed the locks on the house to keep her away and spoke to a lawyer on the phone several times but the earliest the lawyer could meet with me is 12/27.  I was out of town for Christmas but when I returned a Protection From Abuse (PFA) order was waiting in my mailbox.

It included horrible, devastating lies that I won't even detail here.  From my quick read of the order, I need to leave my house.  It appears she is full steam ahead with the VAWA visa fraud.  Her Russian girlfriend is helping and encouraging her.  A total meltdown nightmare.

[William3rd]

So- take all the papers in there to the lawyer tomorrow for your appointment. Bring lots of money, assuming she didnt empty the bank account.

As you read your papers, think of who will be able to discount the lies. People who have SEEN something. You want precipient witnesses whenever possible. Those emails to her family are good stuff.

And- dont lose it over the lies. This is standard shit. . . .  at least you dont have any kids so she can claim you are a pedophile.

I take it you are still in your house right now. Might as well get some sleep. If she is in a shelter and the house is solely yours, that possession order wont last long.

[Stirlitz]

Not in my book.

It wouldn't matter how I had felt about her or how painful it might be I would respect myself too much to ever stay with a woman that I know has cheated on me. It wouldn't matter if we had children together or had been married 50 years, I'd be gone.

There is no forgivable reason for being unfaithful, and if you do forgive her, then she will never respect you again and she will continue to disregard your feelings in all of her actions.

Why are you people so concerned about fidelity issues? I don’t give a damn about it. But I cannot understand why it is bad unless it directly hits you like your partner leaving you (but this can happen due to many other reasons). Do you have serious reasons other than what is laid down in the bible and what your parents/friends/media/etc told/taught you? Is there a solid reason other than “I just cannot stand it, period”? What is your OWN idea grounded with relevant arguments rather then emotions?

[Kuna]

Why are you people so concerned about fidelity issues? I don’t give a damn about it. But I cannot understand why it is bad unless it directly hits you like your partner leaving you (but this can happen due to many other reasons). Do you have serious reasons other than what is laid down in the bible and what your parents/friends/media/etc told/taught you? Is there a solid reason other than “I just cannot stand it, period”? What is your OWN idea grounded with relevant arguments rather then emotions?

Stirlitz,

Am I correct in thinking you're in an open marriage and you have no problems with your wife being intimate with other men whenever she feels like it?

Kuna