Scammers and suspect Agencies

[rasmus]

Every scammers and scam agency  likes to accuse me of being a marriage agency police department. And every client who gets married though my agency accuse me of doing a great job keeping the scammer out of my agency.  Maybe it is my law enforcement background that drives me to protect others. but just because the scammers do not like it isn't going to get me to stop.

Kevin, this is your opinion and opinion of your clients.
However, informing such information yours clients you can confuse them.
Any marriage agency has no lawful police functions.
They can work according to the Ukrainian laws in our case.

[Kevin]

I do it as an American helping out other to avoid the same mistakes that others had made and to prevent them from falling for the same scams. There is no legal justification. But there is a moral and ethical justification that I feel is strong enough to keep my policy in place.

[rasmus]

I do it as an American helping out other to avoid the same mistakes that others had made and to prevent them from falling for the same scams. There is no legal justification. But there is a moral and ethical justification that I feel is strong enough to keep my policy in place.

Kevin, stop avertisment....
As I understand you and your agency do all services free-of-charge...
WOW...

10 man - 10 opinions.
100 man - 100 opinions.
There are many men like marriage agency ABCD>>>>>>.
other men dislike agency ABCD>>>>>>

Ever man can have your own opinion Irrespective of agency's advertising

[Bruno]

Bruno

The term I copyrighted was khersongirls.com .  Not the city name but the name of my agency.  In American you can copyright just about anything.  The term "your fired" is copy righted by Donald Trump and it is a common term.

Soory for come in your little fight, but i have a lot of interest in these copyright thing...

khersongirls.com is not the name of a agency but a domain name... a domaine name is registered for only one year... each year, 15 days before the term of registration, you can register again... if you don't make it everybody can buy it at the end of the term...

I am not sure that copyright a domain name is a legal issue... since if you stop now, someone can buy the domain name... but cannot use it because he is copyrighted in USA... The registration of domain name is located in US, withing the WWW consortium... but each registration is world wide valid... since these administration is multinationale... so, i am almost sure that before international court of justice, the copyright in US on a domain name will be not legal...

By example, for your site, your have register it until the 23 Nov 2007... if 15 days before these data, you don't pay again the registration expense for minimum 1 year, the domain name become again public and everybody can buy it... and use it...

In any case, ask to Network Solution, the society who is Current Registrar to make to activate the hidden of information... so, nobody will be able to see your personal data and end datum of registration... go to http://www.networksolutions.com/en_US/name-it/private.jhtml and type you loggin and password... it will be 9$ year for protect you a little more...

And for information, the following domain name are always to shell : khersongirls + .tv, .bz, .cc , .ws, .vg, .gs, .tc, .ms, .be:D, ...

Kevin, forget these US copyright from domain name... internet is a world wide system... the copyright of a domain name is not valid internationaly... you can only register it and pay for a periode of time... in some way, it is not a TradeMark but more like a PostBox that you hire...

And for information, a copyright protect the content of your site, a TradeMark protect the name of your agency, a patent protect your own programming code, and register a domain name protect the internet name during the hiring periode...

The 2 euro cent from a simple gardener :D:D:D:D

 
Example of copyright :

Copyright Information

The Site and the content within the Site are the property of XXX or its suppliers and are protected by United States copyright laws and international treaty provisions. The compilation, organization and display of the content as well as all software and inventions used on and in connection with this Site are the exclusive property of XXX. XXX reserves all rights in the Site and its content not specifically granted in any agreements with XXX or in the Terms of Use.


Example of TradeMark :

Trademark Information

XXX and other marks indicated on our site are registered trademarks of XXX in the United States and/or other countries. Other XXX marks, graphics, logos, page headers, button icons, scripts noted on the Site are XXX' service marks, trademarks and trade dress and are the sole and exclusive property of XXX. XXX' service marks, trademarks and trade dress may not be used in any manner that is likely to cause confusion among customers, in any manner that disparages or discredits XXX and in connection with any service or product that is not sponsored, endorsed or produced by XXX. All other trademarks not owned by XXX or its subsidiaries that appear on this site are the property of their respective owners, who may or may not be affiliated with, connected to, or sponsored by XXX.

A other interesting example for your policy :

Third Party Web Sites and Information

The Site may provide hyperlinks to third party websites or access to third party content. XXX does not control, endorse, or guarantee content found in such sites. You agree that XXX is not responsible for any content, associated links, resources, or services associated with a third party site. You further agree that XXX shall not be liable for any loss or damage of any sort associated with your use of third party content. Links and access to these sites are provided for your convenience only.


Be good protect is a difficult and long way when you come at the international level.. and internet is something international...

[Bruno]

Now about the links give by Rasmu over Kim... in one, he have problem with Natalia Ryasichenko, 23 year old... he send to her nude photo... but herself, in a ads posted the 17/06/2005, speak about "sexual pleasure"

" I am very sociable and could be a very interesting person to speak with. I know what I want from life, determinative and responsible in my actions. i am sincere with people and I hate lieness. It is very difficult to describe myself, I think the best way to learn person is to communicate with him. I want to find a nice and handsome man...In return I shall give you the sexual pleasure in Ukraine..."

ads at http://euroloveliness.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?c=v&b=wsm&id=3446 , photo at http://euroloveliness.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?c=sp&pc=wsm3446_1.jpg

I am not surprised that with so ads, she attract sexual pervert... and this is true for several women... they make provocative ads and very sexy photo... so, they can only attract more scum...

[rasmus]

Now about the links give by Rasmu over Kim... in one, he have problem with Natalia Ryasichenko, 23 year old... he send to her nude photo... but herself, in a ads posted the 17/06/2005, speak about "sexual pleasure"

" I am very sociable and could be a very interesting person to speak with. I know what I want from life, determinative and responsible in my actions. i am sincere with people and I hate lieness. It is very difficult to describe myself, I think the best way to learn person is to communicate with him. I want to find a nice and handsome man...In return I shall give you the sexual pleasure in Ukraine..."

ads at http://euroloveliness.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?c=v&b=wsm&id=3446 , photo at http://euroloveliness.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?c=sp&pc=wsm3446_1.jpg

I am not surprised that with so ads, she attract sexual pervert... and this is true for several women... they make provocative ads and very sexy photo... so, they can only attract more scum...

Thanks for your message.

It so strange that this profile was sent to this site only yesterday.

Natalia doesn't speak English and has no skills in using Internet and PC at all.

 As I understand there is a spy who can =help= Natalia to have =prostitue= reputation.

[Turboguy]

With all the online stuff it is easy to create a false ad.  A couple of years ago I was killing time and searching through the yahoo personals and as I was scanning through the ladies all of a sudden a man popped up.  That would have been strange enough but it was someone who worked for me. 

The title of his ad was "Still using women after all these years"    The text went on that he wanted a woman to use and abuse and ignore who would give him sex when he wanted and could put up with his crap.

Well, what happened was he had a fight with his gal, that was her way of getting even.

[Bruno]

With all the online stuff it is easy to create a false ad.  A couple of years ago I was killing time and searching through the yahoo personals and as I was scanning through the ladies all of a sudden a man popped up.  That would have been strange enough but it was someone who worked for me. 

The title of his ad was "Still using women after all these years"    The text went on that he wanted a woman to use and abuse and ignore who would give him sex when he wanted and could put up with his crap.

Well, what happened was he had a fight with his gal, that was her way of getting even.

Fun, myself, i have a false ads running from year... a man who don't exist... i use it for test the ladies... after they say that she love me or after meeting, the false guys write to the woman... and i analyse the reply... this method have allow me to remove several scammer from my list of women before...

Now, about these lady, she was listed on anti-scam.org... by Kim ... but since, she is removed because of no prove... she is listed on ua.profiler but again with the help of Kim... " This woman desperately speaks about money in her sms and I replied to her that of course,I'll help her(but of course,I really wouldn't send money to a woman I've only received one letter from and never saw her in person!).I was just playing along with her low game and she replied to me by thanking me for the help and saying that we'd talk later. Yeah, right, like I've heard anything from her after sending her some money. "... So, he have send money and what ??? not a prove of scam... until now, from the two side, i have not see something who prove that she is a scam... only words... now, she is listed like scammer... Kevin make his investigation... i have always think that it was need some prove before someone is say guilty... but here, people say her guilty, list her on scam site before know the result of investigation... great... and if these woman is not guilty, his reputation is bad forever...

His ads is always running on Anastassia Web... so Kim lie when he say that she is removed... of maybe Anastassia web don't believe she is a scam... you can find her at :  http://www.anastasiaweb.com/russian-women-from-Kherson-Natalia-62660.htm , and if you see the text of her ads, it is very different of these post yesterday... and very strange, these post yesterday is again with a hotmail e-mail address...

So, stop accuse someone to be a scammer before have strong prove... these fight between agency in Kherson can only it the Kherson woman... they are the victim of each shoot...

[Kevin]

Bruno

Natasha did violate my agency policy and was removed for requesting money from clients. So I personally know that this is a trait of her. As far as Kim complaint there isn't any exchange of money that I am aware of.  Much like everyone else I agree that if you send a nude photo to a lady don't be surprise if others see it.  I told Kim that he would need to provide me the results of the Kherson police investigation once it is over for me to consider posting her or not. This is our policy on our blacklist. A lady must be found guilty by the local authorities. 

As far as her being back on Aweb you can thank Ramus for her proflie as she is a member of his site and he works for aweb.

I have seen ladies blacklisted before that shouldn't be any list. And I seen cases where photos of ladies where stolen.  What  you can't forge is western union receipts and this is where most of the scammers are caught.

Both of the ladies cases mention on this thread where known by my staff and in both cases it is the opinon of my staff that the primary concerns of these ladies was money based on converstatons with these ladies.  You would be surprise how many scammers I have talk to dirrectly and they told me how easy it was to make money on the man. Every lady on my blacklist I have meet personally before posting them.

As far as false ads, I still have my own false at on confidental connections showing a photograph that only a mother could love and a profile that tell the ladies that it is a false profile and if they send me a letter I would consider them a scammer.   I still get 2-3 letters a week based on this profile.

 

[Bruno]

As far as Kim complaint there isn't any exchange of money that I am aware of. 

It seem that Kim don't give you all the information of he have lie when he have post her on uaprofiler... take a look at http://www.uaprofiler.com/profiles/report.php?id=694 ... he say that he have send some money to her...

If he have send some money, he have the prove of this... if not, he have lie to uaprofiler, this for help to post her in scam list... and people who lie one time can always lie, same to you... Kevin, I know that you try to make a great work, but take care that some men are not honest and can use you...

And about request of money, a single e-mail is not a prove... a man have wish list a woman from my site like scammer... for prove, he have send me a copy of e-mail where she explain him how to send the 20$... after investigation, i have receive all the e-mail send by the man... and the story was more complex... the woman was writing one time week with help of translator... the man have wish more letter and she have explain that she cannot pay it... the man have insist... she have explain how much she need and how to send it for write him each two days... he have send money... but slowly, he have change and send several letter where he explain with detail how he will be f*ck her during the future meeting... the woman shocked have stop the relation... the man have treat her to post his data in scam list if she don't meet him and f*ck with him during his planed trip in Russia...

This is only one example... several man think that because they pay agency of give some gift that the woman become his propriety or slave... in so case, who is the scammer...

 

[Kevin]

Bruno

I am not sure about the money and I wasn't given any proof to show any money transfer. I sent a email to Kim and ask him to post his point of view on his case as I do not have all of the facts.

[rasmus]

It seem that Kim don't give you all the information of he have lie when he have post her on uaprofiler... take a look at http://www.uaprofiler.com/profiles/report.php?id=694 ... he say that he have send some money to her...

Dear Bruno and other members of forum.

I would like to ask send me the screencopy of Natalias profile on uaprofiler (to info@eleo.com.ua).

It is very funny but people who live in Ukraine and Russia can not view uaprofiler pages. We can see only note =SITE IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION=

I ask some friend from Russia and Ukraine to see that URL, but all my friends say about =SITE IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION= page.

As I understand that website owners dont want to get messages from russian women, who were blacklisted  in thar place. They want to get messages only from western people.

 

[Bruno]

I have send all the files ... JPG and HTM... all in a auto extract Rar file...

Maybe use a proxy for surf... so the site don't know that you are from ukraine... several university from Holland offert so proxy function for hide your real IP...

[rasmus]

I have send all the files ... JPG and HTM... all in a auto extract Rar file...

Maybe use a proxy for surf... so the site don't know that you are from ukraine... several university from Holland offert so proxy function for hide your real IP...

Dear Bruno,
Thanks for your help.
I guess this site check info about country from surfers browser.
I would to try to view its using proxy servers and I will try to contact sites admin.

 

 

[wxman]

It is very funny but people who live in Ukraine and Russia can not view uaprofiler pages. We can see only note =SITE IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION=

I ask some friend from Russia and Ukraine to see that URL, but all my friends say about =SITE IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION= page.

As I understand that website owners dont want to get messages from russian women, who were blacklisted  in thar place. They want to get messages only from western people.

 

The most likey reason for this is not to prevent honest people in Ukraine or Russia from viewing these pages, but it likely has to do with the scammers trying to hack the site and shut it down. The only way they can prevent hacking is to block all IP addresses that originate in Russia and the FSU. I know it is not fair to the honest people, but sometimes it must be done to prevent hacking.  

[rasmus]

Bruno

I am not sure about the money and I wasn't given any proof to show any money transfer. I sent a email to Kim and ask him to post his point of view on his case as I do not have all of the facts.

 

Dear Kevin
Did you have a copy of Kims Kolehmainen passport?
Did you see a document which specify Kim got married?

Why did you decide that guy was a victim of scammer.
You decide so because Natalia ask money from you clients?

Men khow that if lady ask a money form man (only ask) and they put a lady to scamlists.
Men know that lady cannot remove herself from scamlists.

Because they put lady to scamlists, forgetting to specify whole picture of their problem. They forget to write about their bad letters to lady with offers to have a sex or to exchange naked pictures or other bad thing.

We have a target to remove lady from scamlists.
We send scamlists admin all correspondence from Natalia to Kim.
We had no a target to =crush= Kim.
URL with Kims pictures has no direct links from main page of our site and extraneous surfer can not view it.

Today I have receiced a letter from one man who asked me
Why do our lady-client advertises as escort girl on another dating site?

Suspecting, that Kim has put Natalias profile as an escort girl on other dating sites to discredit her reputation, we are going to place all Kims letters and naked pics from the main page of our site.

Also we will put special note in our site.
We will ask our potential client inform us about all sites where Natalia was put as escort girl.
We will notice these men, dont send any emails, and money to person, who hidding as Natalia.

This message will be put in other forums like antiscam.net forum.
Also I will contact to all dating sites, which content Nataias profile, describing this situation.

Thanks, Leonid Zichkov
www.eleo.com.ua

[wxman]

Suspecting, that Kim has put Natalias profile as an escort girl on other dating sites to discredit her reputation, we are going to place all Kims letters and naked pics from the main page of our site.

 Are you going to place all the pictures and letters on your web site, or are you removing them? The english was not clear to understand. "place all Kims letters and naked pictures from the main page" sounds like you are removing or posting.

If you are posting, aren't you doing exactly what you were preaching that people should not do? You are upset that people placed Natalia on scam site without proof, and now you are doing the same thing with Kim because you suspect he is doing something without any real proof.

Placing people on scam sites without definate proof is wrong, but preaching against like you are doing, and then doing it to someone, is plain hypocritical.  

 

[Bruno]

I will try to contact sites admin.

Good luck... almost impossible if you cannot reach the site... no address, no e-mail, no phone... only a .php form for contact... if you wish, i can change the .php in .htm like i have make for other page and send it to you... normally, you will be able to open the page localy on your own computer... and submit a request...

A other solution is to use HTTP-tracker... this allow you to build a mirror from the site on your computer for surf offline... but this ask a fast connection and enough MB of transfert... usualy, i use these method for download full site who are interesting... since the live of some site are short, i have always a mirror on my own computer... of course, with my 3 Mb/sec connection, 4 lines broadband, and 20 GB transfer free each month, i have no problem...

Other, your can use google for make a search... type the following in your browser : " http://www.google.com/search?q=allinurl:www.uaprofiler.com+site:uaprofiler.com " ... the result is all the page from the site ( a little more that 600 )... since you cannot see them with normal surfing, don't click the link... but click "cached" function for the link you wish see... the cached page are stored on the Google server... they are updated around each two week... and deleted page are keep one month...

Search engine are wonder when you can use it :D:D

 

[Bruno]

 Are you going to place all the pictures and letters on your web site, or are you removing them? The english was not clear to understand. "place all Kims letters and naked pictures from the main page" sounds like you are removing or posting.

Rasmus, Wxman have right... until you have not strong prove that Kim have post the false ads, don't make something against him...

It can be a other scammer who use her data for try have some money... it is usual that scammer use data and photo from beautiful woman... since the scammer can be ugly or a man...

In anycase, take action against Kim now, without real prove, bring you to the same level of him... and i don't think that you will reach the same low level...

About hacker, block IP from ex-USSR don't change a lot... if you can hack a site, you can hide your IP or use a false one... so, only the good people are blocked...

[Kevin]

Leonid

"Why did you decide that guy was a victim of scammer. "


I have not made any such claim I have only posted what I have received from Kim.  Natalia refused to comment. So i have only one side of the story.

"You decide so because Natalia ask money from you clients?" My definition of a scammer is someone who primary purpose of joining an agency or contacting men who are desiring marriage for the soul purpose of money.   IF Natalia true desire was marriage then she shouldn't be asking men that she hasn't meet for money like she tried though my agency or using stories such as her father is in the hostpital and I need money to save him like the email she sent to kim.  

I had three clients get married in Kherson this month and none of these ladies ask for money while they were dating my clients. See http://www.khersongirls.com/engagement2005/index.htm  . It is a FACT that ladies who bring up money early in the letter writing are often failed relationship or scams.   

I do not have enough proof to show if Natalia scam Kim. But I do see a very common pattern of money request associated with scammers.

However it is your agency policy to allow ladies to ask for money and I have no problem with that.  As long as you respect the fact that it is my policy not to allow ladies to ask for money. And we will let our marriages speak for themselves.


 

[jb]

Do you suppose it would be possible to take these agency wars somewhere else?

[andrewfi]

jb, it is interesting to read this stuff. After all, these are the people who wish to sell us their women. To understand the dishonesty, hypocrisy and greed of these people is no bad thing. To understand that the 'best' of thse guys are no different, in reality, to the run of the mill helps the man buying through an agency to understand what he is really doing.

Seems to me that as long as they do not overly pollute genuine discussion in other threads they do no harm, after all, electrons are essentially free. And really, do you not find the hypocrisy of some to be mildly amusing?

Oh, BTW Kevin, you might want to check your spelling and knowledge  'Your fired' (sic) is not a term copyrighted by Donald Trump. He has made an attempt to trademark 'you're fired!' but this is unlikely to succeed, not least because of the prior existance of 'You're Fired inc' in Michigan. She has the benefit of a Common Law Trademark.

In respect of your claimed 'copyright' on the worlds 'Kherson' and 'girls'; as you obviously do not know, copyright is not normally granted for groups of just two or three words, but for passages or at least phrases. Why do you attempt to bluster and frighten people? Surely you know that when you write or say stuff that is palpably untrue that the rest of what you write or say becomes suspect as well?

As of Friday evening you still had the opportunity to register 'Khersongirls' as a US trademark. You might want to consider doing so before a competitor attempts to do so, although you do have the benefit of the Common Law concept

Fly, fly like the wind to the US Patents and Trademarks Office!

[jb]

Andrew,

The problem with this sort of stuff is that it usually degrades into a "he said, she said" shouting match.  If the users of agencies would just treat them like any other business providing services they require, they would avoid getting burnt.  All agencies are in business to make money, that's the bottom line, this is not a humanitarian, non-profit enterprise.  They could care less if the men find a lifetime mate or not.  In point of fact, agencies would prefer that no matches are ever made, this keeps the clients coming back year after year and the profit stream never dries up.

These agencies are not selling a tangible product, mostly they are selling a fantasy and a smoke screen.  The question of honesty among agencies should be one of "relative honesty", because no agency can state with any degree of clarity that all their girls are sincere and not just looking for a few good dates with rich men.

It's been said by someone, "if you want a friend, go buy a dog, if you want a guarantee, go buy a toaster".  MOB agencies are the wrong place to look for either.

[Bruno]

All agencies are in business to make money, that's the bottom line, this is not a humanitarian, non-profit enterprise.

Now, since i have stop my own agency, i am obligate to agree with you

 

[rasmus]

Now about the links give by Rasmu over Kim... in one, he have problem with Natalia Ryasichenko, 23 year old... he send to her nude photo... but herself, in a ads posted the 17/06/2005, speak about "sexual pleasure"

" I am very sociable and could be a very interesting person to speak with. I know what I want from life, determinative and responsible in my actions. i am sincere with people and I hate lieness. It is very difficult to describe myself, I think the best way to learn person is to communicate with him. I want to find a nice and handsome man...In return I shall give you the sexual pleasure in Ukraine..."

ads at http://euroloveliness.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?c=v&b=wsm&id=3446 , photo at http://euroloveliness.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?c=sp&pc=wsm3446_1.jpg

I am not surprised that with so ads, she attract sexual pervert... and this is true for several women... they make provocative ads and very sexy photo... so, they can only attract more scum...

http://www.ua-date.com/profiles/index.php?ct=woman&md=details&id=8632

Same informaton was put here , 17/06/2005.

As I understand it profile wiil be post on other dating services.
What person does it?