What would you use a guide for?

[Kuna]

All of the hoo haa over my thread about guides seems to be missing the point.

There's a lot of people that might appreciate hand holding and babysitting but I wonder EXACTLY what these intrepid travellers would use a guide for?

When I consider my own trip I've learned things that I think might be worthwhile sharing with Newbies.

How about the others that have used guides?  Do you want to share some things you've learned or ar there no options to guids in your opinion.

Let's de-personalise the discussion this time and assume we're just trying to give newbies the best advice.  What is good value and what is not?


1) Airport Transfers
2) Apartments
3) Sightseeing
4) Night time outtings to pubs, clubs or restaurants
5) Booking Bus, Train and Airline tickets
6) Cold introductions to girls on the street (as someone suggested)
7) Translations with girls you've been writing to prior to arrival
Translations with girls you meet through agencies
9) Meet the guids friends in the hope of finding a girl
10) Taking you to the hospital if you get sick
11) Dealing with police if you get in trouble
12) Arranging prostitutes (if you're a sex tourist)
13) Arranging a mobile phone and Internet
14) Judging the quality of your girl (as someone suggested)
15) Giving advice on the cheapest method of getting to other cities
16) Arranging a private car to get around the city
17) Dealing with Agencies for you
18) Visas (if you need them)
19) Helping with groceries and shopping?

What do you think a guide would be good for or what are the other options a newbie could use?

Is there anything else I'm missing?

Kuna

[funkola]

Kuna I didn't get involved in that thread but I did read it. I feel I understood your beef. Others just wanted to debate semantics and pick apart errors in your post.

I don't plan on using a guide at all when I go. If my girlfriend ditches me and I am left to my own devices..... I'll just go to an agency in town and get a few dates or whatever. My feet, eyes and mouth are all still working so I will make my way around. I have no problem being a tourist if it comes to that.

I would rather work my way through things than deal with crappy service. What I won't do is get anal about making the most of my trip etc. I can always go back later. Life is a one way trip and I intend to relax and enjoy it.

[Kuna]

Funkola,

I think your attitude of relaxing and enjoying your trip is a good one.  When I went I treated it firstly as a holiday and next to meet someone special.  Of course spending quality time with Ms D quickly became a priority after meeting her, but i felt no pressure to "make it work".

I'm not saying there's no benefit a guide can provide, but I think an experienced traveller is unlikely to NEED a guide, and in some cases might be limited by a guide.

Those that use guides shouldn't treat them as a "defender of righteousness".. They simply help you get around AT A PRICE YOU MUST MANAGE!

Kuna

[Rvrwind]

Seems to me everthing on that list is what we offer as an agency ???. So why not just use an agency?
I don't know Pavel from Adam but being in biusness I know that 'You can't please all the people all the time'. Different personalities conflict, errors happen, mistakes are made! In other words as I prefer to put it ' SH!T HAPPENS'. Nobody may be at fault or everybody may be at fault but no matter how hard you try there is always going to be that certain percentage of people that no matter what you do or how hard you try they are never satisfied.
Accept that as fact & it makes life so much easier.

[DonAz]

Kuna I didn't get involved in that thread but I did read it. I feel I understood your beef. Others just wanted to debate semantics and pick apart errors in your post.

I don't plan on using a guide at all when I go. If my girlfriend ditches me and I am left to my own devices..... I'll just go to an agency in town and get a few dates or whatever. My feet, eyes and mouth are all still working so I will make my way around. I have no problem being a tourist if it comes to that.

I would rather work my way through things than deal with crappy service. What I won't do is get anal about making the most of my trip etc. I can always go back later. Life is a one way trip and I intend to relax and enjoy it.

Funkola,

I like the way you are approaching your trip. It shows you have your head on straight! Unfortunately some guy thinking of all of this as a shopping trip and need to come back with the goodies at all cost. Many have crashed and burned that way I’m sorry to say.

You are wise to realize that if you do not make  that special connection with the lady when you  meet.........just walk away and enjoy the adventure of it all.

That’s a great and realistic attitude dude!

Can you tell us when and where you are headed too?

Good Luck,

DonAz

[BC]

I was thinking back to my many travels and it seems in one way or another I did have guides, usually in the form of friends, acquaintances or business partners..

So to be quite honest, had I planned travelling alone to RU, I probably would have looked around for some sort of support structure at least the first time or two.

I am quite 'touched' by www.unclepasha.com and would have probably tried his services simply for the fun of it. (Do take the time though to read his disclaimers and prejudices: http://www.unclepasha.com/prejudices.htm)  Seems bride seekers and others should not apply.  The guy seems to have acquired a good bit of experience with prior customers.

What help have friends and acquaintances provided in the past? (see bold items below)

1) Airport Transfers - They will usually arrange to pick me up or I'll use the hotel shuttle and we meet there.

2) Apartments - If not invited to stay in their home I make my own arrangements but might ask for recommendations.

3) Sightseeing - When we do go sightseeing I pay their way and good lunches/dinners.

4) Night time outtings to pubs, clubs or restaurants - Yes, but I occasionally like to wander a bit on my own even if I don't know the language.

5) Booking Bus, Train and Airline tickets - Either do this online or use a qualified travel agent.

6) Cold introductions to girls on the street (as someone suggested) - If I can't do this myself I shouldn't be asking others to..

7) Translations with girls you've been writing to prior to arrival
Cool Translations with girls you meet through agencies

- Business translation yes, personal no.

9) Meet the guids friends in the hope of finding a girl - I refuse to buy or sell a car to a friend.. wouldn't even think about it.

10) Taking you to the hospital if you get sick - Fortunately never happened but I'm sure they would have if necessary.  Have done this for friends and others visiting me.

11) Dealing with police if you get in trouble - Never needed assist here but if it was my own stupidity that got me there I'd probably be too embarrased to ask and just dig myself out however possible or get proper legal assistance.

12) Arranging prostitutes (if you're a sex tourist) - who on earth needs help doing this?

13) Arranging a mobile phone and Internet - do this myself prior to any trip.

14) Judging the quality of your girl (as someone suggested) - friends may 'drop a hint' and they are usually right.

15) Giving advice on the cheapest method of getting to other cities - Options yes, prices no.

16) Arranging a private car to get around the city - Even if offered I politely refuse and arrange a rental from a major rental agency Hertz Avis or even hotel. If you need a driver just let them know (did this in Turkey, no problem.)  Otherwise taxi will do.  Hotel porter is probably the best for taxi (but maybe not cheapest).

17) Dealing with Agencies for you - No experience here, but why another 'layer' of meddling?

18) Visas (if you need them) - used other resources specialized in this.

19) Helping with groceries and shopping? - No, I know what the basic items I need look like.

[Shadow]

The guide discussion makes me wonder about one thing.

What is the main purpose of the trip ?
I mean if you go to the FSU you go to meet a woman(or more). And unless you are doing your planning very badly, or she has only a little interest in your visit, the object is to spend as much time with her as possible.
These women are local, they know all the things and even if they are from another city they still have all knowledge on getting around without being ripped off.

In case you have not a ommon language to communicate in, all you need is an interpreter. Forget about the agency myths that you need to take the lead in everything. Everyone you meet knows you are a foreigner and can not possibly know about local places and habits.

So you will have a guide that can save you all the money you can think of and spends time with you for free. All you need is a good choice and good planning.

[Kuna]

I guess I should add my comments huh!

1) Airport Transfers
I would ask the apartment service to arrange transfers and I know some do it for free.  I know my girl offered to pick me up from the airport but I preferred to arrive before her and pick her up from the train station.  I think newbies can be made aware what an appropriate fare is from the airport to the city and then surely they can barter a decent price themselves?

2) Apartments
There's SO MANY apartment services on the web as far as I'm concerned anyone will do!  The one in the links here at RWD has a terrific range of apartments available.

3) Sightseeing
I wouldn't pay a guide for sightseeing because it would take the adventure out of the trip.  There are guidebooks available on the street in Kiev's city centre and I would imagine they are available in most other large cities.

I'd love to see us (the members of RWD start to document "things to see and do" in the cities we're familiar with so others can explore new and interesting places.

4) Night time outtings to pubs, clubs or restaurants
I don't believe it's "so dangerous" unless you're foolish!  Again, tips from RWD members would be a great help!

5) Booking Bus, Train and Airline tickets
Air tickets are dead easy!  Do them online.  Bus and train tickets can be bought (for a very small fee) through registered tour agencies.

6) Cold introductions to girls on the street (as someone suggested)
I think the suggestion was a joke.. SURELY!!!  I can't imagine any girl being interested in an English speaking guy on the street if she didn't speak English and had to use a guide to get her attention.  Forget it.. it's not going to happen!

7) Translations with girls you've been writing to prior to arrival
Goodness gracious...  You've been corresponding with a girl and you arrive for a visit and she doesn't speak any English?  If you found her online in a messaging program surely she speaks some English.  If you need assistance I reckon an electronic translation tool sounds like a workable solution... or this MAY be a rare occasion a guide can be of service. 

If you're using a guide for this I would confirm the price per hour prior to arriving in the city and ensure the guide knows where to meet you and for how long.  Don't get the guide to pick you up and hold your hand on the way to the cafe, it's a waste of money!

Translations with girls you meet through agencies
Use the agencies.  I've heard some suggestions you can't trust the agencies but if you can't trust them for translations you shouldn't be trusting them for introductions.  ONLY USE REPUTABLE AGENCIES!

9) Meet the guides friends in the hope of finding a girl
If a guide offers you an introduction to his or her friends treat it as an inducement. Plan ahead and make sure your Plan B comes with lots of options rather than a last minute grab for "success".

10) Taking you to the hospital if you get sick
Travel Insurance???  I know it's obvious but if you have travel insurance you're covered for this!

11) Dealing with police if you get in trouble
Kinda a light hearted question to lighten the discussion.  If you're in trouble with police you probably deserve it.  I met a guy in O'Briens who was complaining the police jumped out from the shadows while he was walking home the night before.  he reckons he was minding his own business but when another guy turned up that he was with from the night before the full story came out.  he'd picked up a hooker and got out of the taxi a block from his apartment.  As they were walking to the apartment they were stopped by police and had to pay 100UAH to pass.  Serves the dirty sex tourist right in my mind!

12) Arranging prostitutes (if you're a sex tourist)
Do this and you're a fool!  What are you going to FSU for?  Sex or marriage.  If you're going for sex you you deserve everything you get!

13) Arranging a mobile phone and Internet
Walk into a shop!  They are peppered thoughout the cities I visited and I was able to buy a SIM card without a problem.  You don't need a translator for this!

14) Judging the quality of your girl (as someone suggested)
Someone told me a guide was a good person to tell you what your girl is really like...  They must have been kidding right?  If you can't work that out for yourself you shouldn't be in FSU!

15) Giving advice on the cheapest method of getting to other cities
The best advice you'll get on travelling within FSU is here... RWD!  Guides may not give you the best advice!

16) Arranging a private car to get around the city
Stick your hand ot when standing on the side of the street.  Again if we at RWD could give an indication of Taxi or Private car costs newbies travelling to new cities will at least be armed with credible information!

17) Dealing with Agencies for you
Choose a credible agency based on the recommendations in RWD and stick to ONLY those agencies. You don't need a guide to do this for you!

18) Visas (if you need them)
Use an AUTHORISED Tourist operator or if you're staying in a hotel at some time during your stay get the Visa Invitation from them. Guides (apparently) will only give you a personal invitation and that needs to be stamped and send in original format to you for submission with your Visa application.  An Authorised Tourist operator can give you an electronic document.  Faster... and cheaper!

19) Helping with groceries and shopping?
Oh so easy to do yourself! 


Just my thoughts!

[Bruce]

I had a "guide" in St. Petersburg.  He was trained to show people through the cultural Institutions in and around St. Petersburg.  Jack actually helped me hook up with him.  I was meeting a girl fluent in English at the time staying in St. Petersburg for I forget now, but probably four or five days.  The girl had to work one day and I did not want her, nor could she, pick me up when I arrived on the overnight train from Moscow as well.  The guide helped arrange a flat for me as well, which was in a decent location off of Nevsky - I took the bus everywhere I wanted.  I did not know if I would hit it off with this girl, but it turns out I did.  We split up after I flew her down to Sochi on a subsequent trip.  The guide walked me through excellent guided tours of the Hermitage (I know one can not see it in a four hour stretch, but heck I've done it a number of times, in fact every time I go to St. Pete) and the Russian museum.  He had his own network of girls as well.  I looked at photos but declined, because I liked the one I met at the time.  He was very helpful for me.  I used him sparingly for what I wanted.  For an experienced traveler a guide is good.  *  The one plus with a non-certified guide over a marriage agency is the perceived independence of a guide.  Still, I always advocate a full service marriage agency for guys going over with love interests in the back of their mind.  Heck, if you are really going over to meet girls, go with professionals who devote their life, or at least a good portion of their life to it  .

[GregfromGa]

Kuna a few questions for you if I may.

How many times have you been to The FSU?

Were you successful in the endeavor? Meaning are you going back to see the same girl?

Did you meet any other prospects on that trip?

I just love it when some guy makes all of one trip and comes back to the message board handing out all this knowledge.

Bottom line guys is when you walk through the double doors at Boryspil into the waiting area, you become a target. Unless you've ever walked into that zoo then you have no idea what I'm talking about. From how you dress to how you act to how you talk. Just get a quote from a driver and then try to get away for the guy.

I dont know why Kuna has singlehandedly tried to wreck one of the most efficient and honest guides in the business to newbies but that seems to be his mission in life these days. If he would spend as much time actually writing to girls as he does trashing guides then he'd already have tickets ordered for his next trip.

I'm not saying you will always need a guide but you are not going to hurt yourself with one in the beginning. So it cost you a few extra bucks. That comes with the territory of having peace of mind. As far as meeting girls on the street,well in all honesty thats the only way to go in my opinion. Back in Tallinn and Kiev in 2001 thats how I rolled. I met my beautiful wife in the same manner. Before I met my wife I flew into Kiev my friend from Tallinn to serve as guide. It was on because both of us actually had game when it came to talking to the ladies. I could go into details but I want.

As far as holding your hand out to catch a ride with a stranger,well thats just insane. Not only is it dangerous,but you'll be wasting your time most of the time unless both parties speak Russian or whatever.

Now these are just a few of my thoughts.Feel free to pick them apart but when you start feel free to post a picture of all your stamped visas into and out of Ukraine to lend some credibility. I have always been more than willing to help some new guy because Like I said I used to be him.

One more question. Is it logical to consider some girl whom you've never met face to face your girlfriend?

[William3rd]

Wow- same stuff in a new package :hairraising:

It didnt taste good the last time before it was locked up.

How about giving it a rest?

[Mod3]

Sound idea. And guys better not start over on this topic.

[Kuna]

Bruce,
You've given some good examples of where a guide would add value! 



Greg,
Dude... this thread isn't meant to turn personal like the last one.  It's actually meant to remove the emotion and give members that are yet to travel some ideas on where guides can and can't add value.

I respect your questions and opinions though... you're obviously a seasoned traveller!

Let me respond to your questions...

- Once, but I've travelled "a bit" previously for buisness and pleasure and have used guides and translators at times. Other times I just flew by the seat of my pants... I counted my overseas hotel stays once and got to over 480 different hotels... That was back in 2003 though and I've lost count now.
- Yep... but define success. My baseline for success though is a mutually satisfying relationship.  I haven't reached that point yet but I'm on the way... I'm not one of the guys that sees a marriage as a win...  marriage is easy... making it genuine and fulfilling is a bit more difficult I think
- Yep, and she's coming here soon hopefully.  Her Visa is submitted but I'll probably be back before she comes here.  Not disclosing too much on a public forum at this stage though. 
- Yep, 1 other from the "writing campaign". I also met a few girls "on the ground". 1 in Germany, 2 in Riga and 2 Kiev
- One trip is enough to learn "something"... I only comment on what I learnt and try to stay away from things that I have no knowledge of.  Opinions differ though because we all have different experiences.  That's why we're here right... to share our experiences?  I don't think we have to agree all the time...
- Target at the airport?  Ha!  Newbies, don't be scared... just be cautious!  Everyone in Ukraine is looking for an upside... the girls included.  Trust no one more than you have to until you REALLY know them (yes, I'm still talking about the girls)
- Seemed pretty similar to Manila Airport to me except there you have people putting a string of flowers over your head and while you think it's a really nice local greeting they'll ask you for $20. Try to take the flowers off and the screaming match starts!   
- I don't know how others dress or talk but I didn't have issues. Most of the time locals thought I was local...
- You can get away from the cabbies easily... I did when my guide was late. A taxi driver actually helped me find the Internet Cafe and change some money.  Nice guy... wish I would have got his number! Don't be scared Little One, they're only looking for suckers.  Hopefully we can help RWD members not be suckers!
- I don't want to wreck any guide... this thread is about practical advice for newbies when they travel. That's a part of RWD's value yeah? 
- No need to write to more girls... I've got one I'm "pretty" interested in!  Tickets aren't booked yet because we have a little planning to do but it's a high speed and fun ride.
- We disagree... it could be much more than a few dollars.  I'm talking about value though not cost...  Bruce had some good points on value.
- Sounds like you're unique man... Congrats!  I don't imagine many of the "punters" are going to do as well approaching girls on Kreschatyk when using a translator. I did "OK" too but they're welcome to take your advice though... Horses for courses neigh? 
- I stuck my hand out many times and never had a problem.  Always felt safe, in fact I met some nice people that way.  Cheap, nice clean cars (except once) and I'd do it over and over again. Independence Square to the airport was almost half the cost a guide (any guide) might charge. Language also wasn't that big a problem... some might see it as a part of the fun.
- No need to pick your thoughts apart... You're free to think.  I just hope we can share diverse concepts that others can use on their first trip

Oh your final question...
"Is it logical to refer to a girl you write to but never met as your girlfriend???" 

I think some guys might like to think that they have a girlfriend but they might just be really excited that someone seems interested in them.  No offence meant to anyone but I get the feeling a lot of guys taking this path are a bit desperate... You know, can't get a girl at home so they think it'll be a cake walk in FSU???  A girl can't be your girlfriend (in my opinion) until after you understand what ticks inside AND you've had enough time face to face for some reality to set in.  Until then she's probably just a fantasy.

Thanks for your comments though...

Kuna

Oh, I thought of another area that RWD does and can help newbies with... Restaurants for any occassion! I got some good advice here on restaurants and I now know a few I could share with newbies if they're in any of the cities I visited.

[Mir]

Greg

I have been to Kiev around 9 times and also to Crimea,Odessa and Lviv.

I agree with most of Kuna's advice.In fact I gave him much of this advice (like airport pick up through apartment agencies etc.) before he set of on this board (I don't know if he read it or not) and some while he was there.
Personally I don't think a guide is needed except for specific reasons like a tour of a Pecharsk etc.
However some tourists might need hand holding and it is fine for them to get one.

One thing I would like to add is that if you are stopped by police and you are not doing anything wrong don't be too scared.
It never hapend to me in Ukraine but hapend in Budapest. We (myself and my Ukrainian friend) were coming out of the metro and stooped to read the local map on the wall. A man came to me and asked:'What are you looking for'? I told him and he said 'Come out and I will point you to it' As we stepped out of the station and he started to say something another man in plain cloths marched to us.He showed a badge and said something like:'Special police, come this side please we need to check your documents' I said to him politely 'I will not show you any documents and if you want to see them lets go to the police station' He looked at me for a minute and then said :' Oh its OK, we only want to check this man, you can go'
Now this obviously was a scam, but in case you do end in the police station try to contact your local consulate. The consulates have a contact for even out of hours where someone can be contacted.

[catzenmouse]

I am quite 'touched' by www.unclepasha.com and would have probably tried his services simply for the fun of it. (Do take the time though to read his disclaimers and prejudices: http://www.unclepasha.com/prejudices.htm)  Seems bride seekers and others should not apply.  The guy seems to have acquired a good bit of experience with prior customers.

We did not have a good experience with Pasha.

Don't mean to go off topic here so I'll just leave it at that.

Ken

[Leslie]

Well,

I have no particular axe to grind about any individual.  The following points are relevant if either side will abandon their entrenched views.

Simple test to see if your guide is truly your friend (or is just a guy you are paying to act friendly)  Ask the guide if he is prepared to meet you over Ukraine Independence Day weekend.  You will both have a great time but he must pay his own expenses and you won’t be handing out a single kopek…

I have made several friends in Ukraine.  I don’t pay ANY of them.  I have yet to even hear of a guide who works for nothing.  Honestly some of you guys appear to have missed “making friends 101” at high school…

On the other side is Richard’s point about difficult customers.  Some people expect way too much.  We have had several infamous cases argued out on the boards over the years with guys complaining about guides/agencies.  Often the sum’s of money argued over at such length are piffling!  I have admitted to Richard and Kevin that I could not own an agency unless it had a big remote yard.  After all I would need some place to bury the bodies…

Essentially you pay your money and you make your choice.  The first couple of times in FSU hiring help is advisable.  You need to know the ropes before venturing out on your own. 

Guys who leave all the arrangements to a woman who they have not even met (their girlfriend?) can get into serious trouble.  Travel way off the tourist track and then the “relationship” goes south.  No workable plan to get themselves back to civilization. Stupid. I have organized a couple of “rescues” but not any more. Always stay in control of your essential travel arrangements. You MUST have a back up plan…

Some guys have a resort type mentality.  They tend to travel with the “full service”  MOB agencies or perhaps with a guide that they trust. This can work out fine but what do you do if it does not?  Have you got the courage / resources to move on?  Or will firing the help ruin your trip…

After 2 – 3 trips you should not need “full service” you can move on to “A La Carte”. 

In any event you are responsible for yourself.  It is no use distributing the blame on other people. 

[catzenmouse]

Leslie it sure is good to see you posting a bit more.

 I removed the harsh language from my last post as it was not condusive to the topic or to the board as a whole. Grudges and personal swipes at others have no place here in any form.


Ken

[funkola]

Some people just can't stop poking can they?     I don't know how else to describe a a girl who is my friend in Ukraine other than girlfriend. It is not as though I called her my lover now is it? So someone please tell me what I should say to describe the girl I am going to see.

DonAz

I am going to Cherkassy in late May. It is a slight adjustment to my original plans which caused me to eat a plane ticket I had already purchased. (no big deal) I am going to see one girl I have been in contact with for a very long time. I guess you could call me more of a sniper than a shotgunner. I like to focus on what I am doing.    Like I said previously, if it doesn't work out I will find plenty to do I am sure. If I do get bored in Ukraine I will either come back or possibly go on to the Philippines to see a buddy of mine. I know I am breaking some peoples rules about how to go about this. But I prefer to not be so rigid about my schedule. I am content to go with the breeze.   

[Stirlitz]

I am glad to see a constructive thread here finally!

Thanks for the cool list. Some people just don’t realize what guides can do for them. While those things can be done on your own, you can always choose in a specific situation whether to do so or have someone else do it for you. My point is it depends and cannot be delimited here.

What’s interesting, I have done everything on the list, except for a thing or two.

4) Night time outtings to pubs, clubs or restaurants

I hate it. It does not make any sense because there is nothing I can do at a night club for the client except for drink some coke and smile in a silly way. The music is so freaking loud I cannot say anything and cannot hear anything at all. It only makes sense to help him to get home safe later.

6) Cold introductions to girls on the street (as someone suggested)
I think the suggestion was a joke.. SURELY!!!  I can't imagine any girl being interested in an English speaking guy on the street if she didn't speak English and had to use a guide to get her attention.  Forget it.. it's not going to happen!

Yes, it is a bad idea in my view. In fact I had a client who wanted me to do this but I declined. I would have felt terribly awkward and stupid doing that.

7) Translations with girls you've been writing to prior to arrival
Goodness gracious...  You've been corresponding with a girl and you arrive for a visit and she doesn't speak any English?  If you found her online in a messaging program surely she speaks some English.  If you need assistance I reckon an electronic translation tool sounds like a workable solution... or this MAY be a rare occasion a guide can be of service. 

Nevertheless, a lot of people met their future wives this way.

You don’t have to do this though. It’s up to you. However, as there are not too many women who speak so fluent English as to discuss important aspects of relocation and married life together, even if you can communicate on a certain level, I find it reckless to get married to a woman who cannot understand you 100%. Even if she understands 50 or 70%.

Like a translator I know says, stop confusion before it starts — hire a professional translator. There are a plenty of couples who had to divorce after they had found out they where incompatible. Too bad they did not find it out before marrying. Don’make this mistake — make sure you actually know you are compatible, not you ‘feel’ so. It can be achieved by communicating and asking lots of specific questions. A pocket translator isn’t going to help — believe me or not.

Translations with girls you meet through agencies
Use the agencies.  I've heard some suggestions you can't trust the agencies but if you can't trust them for translations you shouldn't be trusting them for introductions.  ONLY USE REPUTABLE AGENCIES!

My view is you should eliminate the agency out of your correspondence to be sure that it has no control of you however reputable it is. Yes, reputable… but you had better be on your own. If you get your letters translated by a third party who do not even know your fiancee, it is safer.

9) Meet the guides friends in the hope of finding a girl
If a guide offers you an introduction to his or her friends treat it as an inducement. Plan ahead and make sure your Plan B comes with lots of options rather than a last minute grab for "success".

Something like this has happened too.

11) Dealing with police if you get in trouble

This too. And not through foolishness in fact. The man was getting home late, and for some reason he ran toward to the entrance to the apartment house. A police officer suspected something wrong and ran after him. After checking his papers he found fault with the address. As the man had booked a hotel before arrival and changed it to the apartment later but still gave the hotel address to the immigration officials, he had the hotel (rather than the apartment) address stamped in the paper in his passport. This was a minor offence. But I fixed it.

12) Arranging prostitutes (if you're a sex tourist)
Do this and you're a fool!  What are you going to FSU for?  Sex or marriage.  If you're going for sex you you deserve everything you get!

Judge thou not… Your problem is you are a bit arrogant and opinionated. One man’s poison is another’s food, so leave it up to them to decide and decide for yourself. A sex tourist is difficult to define and you can be a sex tourist without even realizing it. Meet a pretty girl, take her out, seduce her — with an aim to finally marry her — but she will take you for a ride and dump, and it will turn out she only used sex as a bait to get you make her gifts, etc. Isn’t she a prostitute?

But I am not going to discuss it here, nor am I going to justify or lambaste sex tourists. Just a remark to cool off those who lack in tolerance toward others and think they are it. Go to the international sex guide board and you may find similar remarks about bride seekers.

Don’t go on from here.

14) Judging the quality of your girl (as someone suggested)
Someone told me a guide was a good person to tell you what your girl is really like...  They must have been kidding right?  If you can't work that out for yourself you shouldn't be in FSU!

Yes, sometimes you can have a hard time figuring out someone from a strange culture and there is nothing wrong if you seek advice from local people.

I use my wife for such things though, I am not as good at figuring out women.

But I can tell a scammer and what I can easily tell is a silly girl who does not even know what she wants. There are plenty of them. They may be 20+ but they are kids. For some reason foreigners who go after them cannot realize it.

15) Giving advice on the cheapest method of getting to other cities
The best advice you'll get on travelling within FSU is here... RWD!  Guides may not give you the best advice!

Best advice comes from those who live there, not from those who travel there once in a while. Of course, you can confirm it here.

16) Arranging a private car to get around the city
Stick your hand ot when standing on the side of the street

… and you will be ripped off.

These women are local, they know all the things and even if they are from another city they still have all knowledge on getting around without being ripped off.

However, some women are not impressed with men who need to be guided around. Some women like men who can take care of everything on their own be it by hiring someone or doing it themselves. Turning your woman into your guide is not always a good idea.

[Thor]

All of the hoo haa over my thread about guides seems to be missing the point.

There's a lot of people that might appreciate hand holding and babysitting but I wonder EXACTLY what these intrepid travellers would use a guide for?

When I consider my own trip I've learned things that I think might be worthwhile sharing with Newbies.

How about the others that have used guides?  Do you want to share some things you've learned or ar there no options to guids in your opinion.

Let's de-personalise the discussion this time and assume we're just trying to give newbies the best advice.  What is good value and what is not?


1) Airport Transfers
2) Apartments
3) Sightseeing
4) Night time outtings to pubs, clubs or restaurants
5) Booking Bus, Train and Airline tickets
6) Cold introductions to girls on the street (as someone suggested)
7) Translations with girls you've been writing to prior to arrival
Translations with girls you meet through agencies
9) Meet the guids friends in the hope of finding a girl
10) Taking you to the hospital if you get sick
11) Dealing with police if you get in trouble
12) Arranging prostitutes (if you're a sex tourist)
13) Arranging a mobile phone and Internet
14) Judging the quality of your girl (as someone suggested)
15) Giving advice on the cheapest method of getting to other cities
16) Arranging a private car to get around the city
17) Dealing with Agencies for you
18) Visas (if you need them)
19) Helping with groceries and shopping?

What do you think a guide would be good for or what are the other options a newbie could use?

Is there anything else I'm missing?

Kuna

YES!! You are missing the most importandt point!!!! Yes you can off course y=use a guide to all this on your list if you are a rookie in FSU. But the best way of using a guide or helper is to let him run a newspapers ad before you arrival or to run your profil at local chat chanels. Then you will have a lot of girls that are waiting to meet you, and then you dont need to use this terrible agencys that are so exspensive, who wants to pay 150 grynas for a meeting with a agency girl that mostlikly are a golddiger???? With newspapers ads you meet girls for free!!!!!!! The only cost is the ad in the paper....And then there wil be A LOT of girls that want to meet you.

[Kuna]

Stirlitz, Thanks for your balanced response to the questions raised in this thread.  I think where guides provide value they are a good options, and what I was trying to do in this thread was help newbies work out what is good value and what is not.

You and I don't agree on all points but there is validity in all opinions... that's what RWD is for!

Are there other things you do on a daily basis with your clients that I've missed? 

I've thought of one or two things like arranging theatre tickets, etc...  I'm not talking about the highly unusual things like "holding a clients mothers hand during a hip replacement because the client fainted at the sight of blood".

I think it'd be interesting to understand the full range of typical services a guide can provide.

Oh, thanks for calling me "a bit arrogant and opinionated"... I'm not totally uncomfortable with that description!  I was once nicknamed "The Anti-Christ" by an employee who was being micro-managed before termination and I was pretty happy with that description too!   


Mir, I know, I know! I didn't listen to your advice about the apartment and airport transfers.  Next time I will though... I promise!


Funkola,  I've said it before... I think your attitude for your trip is pretty much right.  Don't fall in love before arriving and keep an open mind.  Have fun... It's a holiday not a hunting expidition.

Oh, I remembered one other thing about Cherkassy for you.  There's a very nice cafe near the main shopping centre that I ate at a few times.  I'm not sure of it's name but there is one big shopping centre in the centre of town.  If you stand in the car park and look at the shopping centre the cafe is behind you at approximately 8 o'clock.. just across the road.  It does nice coffee and cakes, has some very nice meals and looks like a local hangout for the young and fashionable!

[funkola]

Thanks Kuna. I will keep an eye out for the eatery. No doubt my "whatever I am supposed to call her"    will know of it. It looks like I can get a business class ticket for about $2700 rt. I may go that route so I can be more comfortable. Don't want to be too tired and grouchy when I arrive. I was able to find some military hops that would get me to Germany (Weisbaden) for free. But it was going to be a 3.5 day ordeal. Screw that!

[Kuna]

hahahaha... Funkola.. perhaps you can call "the person" your "person-associate" or something...

Oh, remember to try to get to the Museum of History in Cherkassy...  I thought it was well worth a look.

Kuna

[Stirlitz]

Are there other things you do on a daily basis with your clients that I've missed? 

I've thought of one or two things like arranging theatre tickets, etc...  I'm not talking about the highly unusual things like "holding a clients mothers hand during a hip replacement because the client fainted at the sight of blood".

I think it'd be interesting to understand the full range of typical services a guide can provide.

I am baffled. Your list is so complete that I cannot think about much more. Most of the things I can remember outside of this list were single cases. You did a good job indeed, I have little to add and I have to think hard.

OK, let me see though. Basically, I do everything I am asked for. Except for some weird things. Or something illegal. However, except for that incident when it was suggested that the client points his finger at a woman in the street and I approach her and introduce him to her, I don’t remember anything pervert or so weird I could not fulfil. I once took an old Odessa saying as my motto: any whim for your money. (This helped me to double my income). All you need is ask. Theater tickets are possible, anything. You already gave a very comprehensive list of services and if there is anything left out it is something which is only needed seldom. Perhaps Pavel can complement this list.

One thing I can certainly add is getting oriented in a strange town. When someone comes to Odessa, for example, I can meet them at the airport, take to the apartment they ordered (with my help or through someone else) and show them around the city a little. Get a map of the city, show nearest groceries, ATMs and Internet cafes, mark them on the map. Help to learn a few basic words in Russian and Cyrillic letters to read signs, put down their address in Russian, advise on typical taxi rates, help to get a local SIM card and show how to buy more minutes for it, teach how to make cheap calls abroad, how to use buses, etc. Help them get what they need, for example food, umbrella, batteries. This takes a few hours and may be necessary even if you have a girlfriend who speaks English.

Also sometimes I am asked to make some enquiries and find out some things. I usually do it for free and it is a petty thing. I don’t think it needs to be on the list. For example, a client was a mormon and he wanted to find out the location of a local mormon church in Odessa.

I can put you in touch with other people who can help you like drivers, lawyers, whoever can do what I can’t at the moment or at all. Typically, I introduce clients to reliable dating agencies.

I would also add arranging a car to get to another city and/or being your driver. Some clients require a car and travel around Ukraine in it. When I did not have a car I had to arrange a car and a driver. Now I can be your driver with my car while also being a guide and interpreter.

I was once called a 'bodyguard'. When a foreigner is walking in the street at night talking English he can attract the attention of beggars who can be too pressing. As I was telling them to … off in plain Russian and it helped a lot, I was told I had been promoted as a bodyguard. It was a joke but there is truth in every joke. I once had a client in Simferopol and I was walking him home every night. Once he wanted to stay in the club longer and told me to go home. Next morning he told me that some jerks had followed him night when he was alone and tried to attack. He took a fighting stance and they ran away though so he was not hurt/robbed, but it is funny that they should attack him on the very night he was alone. I walked him home every night since then. However, the thing is he was black so it was easy to single him out as a foreigner. If you are white you may blend in and look like a local. A third case was dealing with drunk passengers in the train I was taking to Kiev with my client and his wife. They were not really aggressive and dangerours, just drunk but I had to deal with them in a way. Just distract their attention and talk to them in the corridor for an hour and sort of save my client from their drunk attempts to make big friends which could actually end in a fight. Drunk people are pain in the neck and you have to steer their attention elsewhere to avoid trouble.

And you will laugh but I did hold the hand of a clients’ mother. We went to Kerch catacombs. He took his old mother and her husband to Ukraine in order for them to meet his wife’s parents and become a united family for the duration of the trip. It was very dark in the catacombs but the floor was not smooth, so I offered my hand to her. I don’t remember where this loafer was hanging around at this moment, perhaps exchanging caresses with his pretty wife, but he was not there, so I had to do it as a gentleman.

There are some things I do outside of being a guide, for example discovery/extraction, flowers delivery, English lessons, three-way online interpreting (either on the phone or an instant messenger). But this does not pertain here.

Right now I have a client who has a fiancee in Ukraine and wants to take her to Europe where he will marry her. She needs a lot of paperwork. But she is very busy. We (my client and I) are now looking into ways to do the paperwork for her on our own — get all necessary papers and certificates. This is also something I have never done before. I am trying to find out how it can be done and putting him in touch with people who can help because I do not have enough experience in legal matters.

To sum up, you should not try to imagine all possible services guides can provide. You have a good list above, use it as a reference, but remember that 1) you only have to ask and then think if the answer (price) suits you, if yes — just do it and don’t complain later, if no — look elsewhere. And, 2) you do not have to hire a guide for every item on the list. Hire him for the things you cannot do on your own or would prefer to pay to get them done, if the price suits you. Your guide can be your agent in Ukraine for the things out of your control or difficult for you, whatever your needs are. Somebody here suggested the term ‘Majordomo’. In fact, I was also called this way before. I like ‘aide’ better. ‘Agent’ is also good. These names speak for themselves as ‘guide’ only reflects part of the job. Better than ‘interpreter’ but not so comprehensive as ‘majordomo’.

Of course there can be things guides cannot do but it does not hurt to ask.

It is very simple. I find it a bit strange to use your guide for any action you need. However, it is equally silly to avoid using guides at all costs. Just be reasonable and wise. Like with anyone else you use/hire.

[Leslie]

“Funkola.. perhaps you can call "the person" your "person-associate" or something...”

I was not directing any comment at you personally but since you beg the question  I will amplify my comment.  Any ladies man will tell you that the woman decides when(or if) she will become your girlfriend.  Seduction can speed up the decision making process but essentially it is the woman’s decision.

When an FSU woman makes this decision she will “claim” you.  This begins with screwing your brains out and is followed by all manner of behavior to show other women you are taken.  When this happens to you there will be no doubts in your mind.  Oh and philandering with other women must now be very discreet on pain of having your testicles grated into cutleti mush by some rusty kitchen implement !!

Until you meet face to face you don’t have a relationship.  What you have is mutual wish fulfillment fantasies.  When you meet, if there is chemistry you may develop a relationship or you may not.  The “odds” are not good.  IMHO the happy ending stories are publicized whilst silence follows failure.

I make no judgment whatsoever on the approach used for this quest. Choose the option you feel comfortable with.  However a workable back up plan is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL if you are planning a “Visit One” trip.

The minimum back up plan should include extricating yourself from the situation and relocating to somewhere you can be a tourist for the rest of the trip.  Oh easy peesy  I hear you cry ! Don’t need to think about that…

So you find yourself sharing an apartment in small town western Ukraine with a controlling, shopaholic, holoshka and you decide you want out. 

BUT HOW?? 

Phone and book a taxi?  Buy railway tickets? Find the Bus Station? Book yourself into a hotel for the night?  These things are practically impossible if you don’t speak Russian.  Oh and you will have as much luck finding an English speaker in small town Ukraine as finding a Urdu speaker in Montana…

Now you need someone like Stirlitz and you can’t afford to be too picky about the price !