What would you use a guide for?

[BC]

I guess we have had different military experiences.    You can't possibly know what I have experienced.

Lets see...  Six foreign countries and along the way quite fluent in four languages besides English (still learning Russian).. 47 years old and 43 overseas... 22 or so as a civilian without an ID card.. never lived 'on base'.. I guess not.

Don't get me wrong, no declaration of superiority here... the important fact is that very little of what I learned along the way was applicable in FSU..  That's why my ears were and still are open here.

Now if you told me you were assigned as a military attache' to an Embassy in FSU, learned Russian at DLI and maybe worked 'dark' for a period of time I would say you don't need to listen to anything said here... in fact our ears would be quite 'peaked' in interest.

[Jack]

Bruce your description of waiting in-line is pretty accurate with some of my experiences as well.

The old men wearing their war medals and old babushka's I also bite my tongue but the other people who would try to cut in line I would tell them in English, not that they understood me, that the line starts behind me. And you know Bruce most Ukrainians don't say a thing to the people who break in line. I remember when I was married and I would tell some joker where the line ended my Natalia would get so embarrassed as people normally didn't tell people this.

For example I learned a lot more from Kuna's trip report than I have from the six or so people who had nothing but negative comments about it. Truthfully, I learned something from those people too. But it won't be of any use to me in Ukraine.

Well actually funkola I think almost everybody praised Kuna's trip report, the six or so with negative comments were not about his trip report but was about his negative experience with his guide.

[funkola]

Don't get me wrong, no declaration of superiority here... the important fact is that very little of what I learned along the way was applicable in FSU..  That's why my ears were and still are open here.

Now I like the way you worded that much better than before.    I hear what you are saying and I appreciate it!

[BC]

Bruce,

Train tickets?.. try the line at OVIR... LOL

Luckily MIL acts and does like a linebacker.. widens her elbows and plows ahead!  If someone says something she stops and stares them down..

[Stirlitz]

So.... gentlemen... what would you use a guide for and what represents good value?

Funkola and some others… please listen to Kuna. In plain words: please stay on topic, it’s enough getting personal. Let’s keep this thread informative.

I think Don summed it upped best on this thread. Using a guide is a matter of convenience. All of the above can be done with the help of agency, a guide, or on your own with the aids of tools. Only a fool travels without tools: maps, guide books, web sites, research prior to travel. A guide is an interactive tool that can answer questions.

Jooky nailed it. It never dawned on me but it is a perfect description.

Buying train tickets..................now that is one sick experience if I can say so myself.  Wait in a long winding line with Babushka's cutting in and out. 

I am getting sick as I read it. I hate it. I used to order my tickets on the phone, it cost extra but was well worth it. However they stopped this service for an unknown reason, I could not get through for many months. Finally I fixed my car and I never take trains except for rare occasions like a wounded arm a few months ago.

[Gator]

Jooky wrote Today at 01:56:45 PM,

Contrary to Sweggin’s comment that Kuna’s trip “went south”

Argh. This keeps coming up all over these threads. Sweggin did not state, assert or comment that Kuna's trip report went south. Some of you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Sweggin wrote on March 04, 2007, 11:36:08 PM ,

Not flamming him [Kuna] but would like to point out that sometimes when trips go south, some guys look for people to spread the blame.

Jooky, you have a well developed anlaytical mind and you almost always have a good grasp of the situation.  The fact that you missed this point proves that too much has been written on the subject.  I happen to remember it as it was one of the few posts that I read last month.  BTW Jooky, I agree with the remainder of your post and it is an excellent summary (for those content with a summary). 

[SANDRO43]

here come a few Babushka back in to claim their spot.  Then the old guy with two medals walks right up and everyone else lets him cut in to the very front

May we then conclude that the IDEAL guide would be a bemedalled Babushka (at least as far as negotiating ticket counters is concerned) ?

[DonAz]

Meanwhile- the same old players are saying the same ol **** in the brand new thread.

I guess I didnt give my opinion yet but I will wait until I post my very own thread on Guides sometime in the year 2008 which will probably be thread #139. Do guides change their socks between customers? Enquiring minds want to know. . . . . .

Didn't you say this before ? 

[Stirlitz]

May we then conclude that the IDEAL guide would be a bemedalled Babushka (at least as far as negotiating ticket counters is concerned) ?

It’s not necessary. When you order tickets, you don’t have to be there and wait in the line. Therefore you don’t give a damn about guides adventures and fights with babushkas throwing their medals at him while struggling through the line. You don’t see it.

[Shadow]

I really want to go and buy train tickets at a train station in Ukraine now, hoping to see Jack and Stirlitz in the line as well
I can imagine a wild triangular line of babushkas the size of linebackers, Stirlitz using his cellphone trying to reach the desk clerk and get the tickets from the back entrance for a small extra fee, Jack shouting at all who come in front of him, fighting off the babushkas.
And at the end of the line maybe Pavel selling the tickets he just got for double price to someone who does not want to wait in line. 

I would have not trouble, nobody wants to step on a puppy with glasses.

[livinginukraine]

I work as a guide/translator/assistant for guys who travel to Ukraine and my thoughts are as follows:

I have never personally hired a guide when i have travelled. The reason is that i like to make my travelling as adventurous as possible, normally I am not restricted to a small time frame, and I am particularly adept at getting round in unfamiliar circumstances.

Ive seen guys come here with and without guides. Theres an argument each way but for many guys who havent travelled much, have only a short time in the country, and want to get results, a guide works well. This can be for just part of their stay, for a few hours each day, or a full-time assistant. A lot depends on the individuals character and expectations.

The way i see it is that although i am personally an expense, i save my client money in every other way possible...and in Ukraine the main problem is that unsuspecting foreigners can be subject to being incessantly ripped-off (more often than not by marriage agencies!), taxis, restaurants, accommodation owners, the girls...theyre all at it! and i get job satisfaction from getting my client the best deal every time.

In this way a guide can be a good thing. For sure though..for the extra adventurous types (particularly those who thrive on the adventure) then there are particular advantages of going it alone. 

Happily everyone can make their own choice!




1) Airport Transfers
I would ask the apartment service to arrange transfers and I know some do it for free.  I know my girl offered to pick me up from the airport but I preferred to arrive before her and pick her up from the train station.  I think newbies can be made aware what an appropriate fare is from the airport to the city and then surely they can barter a decent price themselves?

2) Apartments
There's SO MANY apartment services on the web as far as I'm concerned anyone will do!  The one in the links here at RWD has a terrific range of apartments available.

3) Sightseeing
I wouldn't pay a guide for sightseeing because it would take the adventure out of the trip.  There are guidebooks available on the street in Kiev's city centre and I would imagine they are available in most other large cities.

I'd love to see us (the members of RWD start to document "things to see and do" in the cities we're familiar with so others can explore new and interesting places.

4) Night time outtings to pubs, clubs or restaurants
I don't believe it's "so dangerous" unless you're foolish!  Again, tips from RWD members would be a great help!

5) Booking Bus, Train and Airline tickets
Air tickets are dead easy!  Do them online.  Bus and train tickets can be bought (for a very small fee) through registered tour agencies.

6) Cold introductions to girls on the street (as someone suggested)
I think the suggestion was a joke.. SURELY!!!  I can't imagine any girl being interested in an English speaking guy on the street if she didn't speak English and had to use a guide to get her attention.  Forget it.. it's not going to happen!

7) Translations with girls you've been writing to prior to arrival
Goodness gracious...  You've been corresponding with a girl and you arrive for a visit and she doesn't speak any English?  If you found her online in a messaging program surely she speaks some English.  If you need assistance I reckon an electronic translation tool sounds like a workable solution... or this MAY be a rare occasion a guide can be of service. 

If you're using a guide for this I would confirm the price per hour prior to arriving in the city and ensure the guide knows where to meet you and for how long.  Don't get the guide to pick you up and hold your hand on the way to the cafe, it's a waste of money!

 Translations with girls you meet through agencies
Use the agencies.  I've heard some suggestions you can't trust the agencies but if you can't trust them for translations you shouldn't be trusting them for introductions.  ONLY USE REPUTABLE AGENCIES!

9) Meet the guides friends in the hope of finding a girl
If a guide offers you an introduction to his or her friends treat it as an inducement. Plan ahead and make sure your Plan B comes with lots of options rather than a last minute grab for "success".

10) Taking you to the hospital if you get sick
Travel Insurance???  I know it's obvious but if you have travel insurance you're covered for this!

11) Dealing with police if you get in trouble
Kinda a light hearted question to lighten the discussion.  If you're in trouble with police you probably deserve it.  I met a guy in O'Briens who was complaining the police jumped out from the shadows while he was walking home the night before.  he reckons he was minding his own business but when another guy turned up that he was with from the night before the full story came out.  he'd picked up a hooker and got out of the taxi a block from his apartment.  As they were walking to the apartment they were stopped by police and had to pay 100UAH to pass.  Serves the dirty sex tourist right in my mind!

12) Arranging prostitutes (if you're a sex tourist)
Do this and you're a fool!  What are you going to FSU for?  Sex or marriage.  If you're going for sex you you deserve everything you get!

13) Arranging a mobile phone and Internet
Walk into a shop!  They are peppered thoughout the cities I visited and I was able to buy a SIM card without a problem.  You don't need a translator for this!

14) Judging the quality of your girl (as someone suggested)
Someone told me a guide was a good person to tell you what your girl is really like...  They must have been kidding right?  If you can't work that out for yourself you shouldn't be in FSU!

15) Giving advice on the cheapest method of getting to other cities
The best advice you'll get on travelling within FSU is here... RWD!  Guides may not give you the best advice!

16) Arranging a private car to get around the city
Stick your hand ot when standing on the side of the street.  Again if we at RWD could give an indication of Taxi or Private car costs newbies travelling to new cities will at least be armed with credible information!

17) Dealing with Agencies for you
Choose a credible agency based on the recommendations in RWD and stick to ONLY those agencies. You don't need a guide to do this for you!

18) Visas (if you need them)
Use an AUTHORISED Tourist operator or if you're staying in a hotel at some time during your stay get the Visa Invitation from them. Guides (apparently) will only give you a personal invitation and that needs to be stamped and send in original format to you for submission with your Visa application.  An Authorised Tourist operator can give you an electronic document.  Faster... and cheaper!

19) Helping with groceries and shopping?
Oh so easy to do yourself! 

[KenC]

WOW!  Great post.  Thanks for sharing and welcome.
KenC

[Wayne B]

livinginukraine, I agee with you 100%  I have done it my way....became very frustrating    and now I would not think twice about not hirering a guide/interpreter before going to the Ukraine or any other FSU country..... Their service saves you time....and time is money!!!!  

[Mir]

Well I disagree
If you are not the guideable type then the guide himself will be a source of your frustration, and we can all see the result in recent post.
Also I still feel that the only role for the guide is specific sightseeing. Yes guidebooks are fine but one cannot have an intellectual discusion with a guidebook but this is possible with a guide.
I don't think I would have enjoyed the tour of Pecharsk or Bulgakov's house that much if I did not have a guide.
If you know nothing and all the guide does is point it out to you, this is St Sophia, this is balh blah then that is not worth it, but if you know something and the guide is learned then you learn things that give pleasure. JMHO

[Kuna]

I work as a guide/translator/assistant for guys who travel to Ukraine and my thoughts are as follows:

I have never personally hired a guide when i have travelled. The reason is that i like to make my travelling as adventurous as possible, normally I am not restricted to a small time frame, and I am particularly adept at getting round in unfamiliar circumstances.

Ive seen guys come here with and without guides. Theres an argument each way but for many guys who havent travelled much, have only a short time in the country, and want to get results, a guide works well. This can be for just part of their stay, for a few hours each day, or a full-time assistant. A lot depends on the individuals character and expectations.

The way i see it is that although i am personally an expense, i save my client money in every other way possible...and in Ukraine the main problem is that unsuspecting foreigners can be subject to being incessantly ripped-off (more often than not by marriage agencies!), taxis, restaurants, accommodation owners, the girls...theyre all at it! and i get job satisfaction from getting my client the best deal every time.

In this way a guide can be a good thing. For sure though..for the extra adventurous types (particularly those who thrive on the adventure) then there are particular advantages of going it alone. 

Happily everyone can make their own choice!

Ahhhh... finally a guide I think I could trust! 

[GregfromGa]

You are a little off on #6 and #14.  I could go into details about my luck concerning cold introductions but I really dont have the time. Let me just say that it can very easily happen and I highly recommend trying it.

#14 I dont understand why you dont think this could be a positive. I would like to think a Ukrainian guide might know just a little more how a person would and should act over there. I certainly feel I could probably read an American girl who might not be serious better than a Ukrainian guy over here.

I have no problem with anything else posted.

[Kuna]

You are a little off on #6 and #14.  I could go into details about my luck concerning cold introductions but I really dont have the time. Let me just say that it can very easily happen and I highly recommend trying it.

#14 I dont understand why you dont think this could be a positive. I would like to think a Ukrainian guide might know just a little more how a person would and should act over there. I certainly feel I could probably read an American girl who might not be serious better than a Ukrainian guy over here.

I have no problem with anything else posted.

#14 refers to my skepticism in having a stranger give me the thumbs up or thumbs down when it comes to women.

This may just be a personal thing but I trust my judgement when it comes to the fairer sex more than I trust any man I know.  I wrote to the girls I met for a few months before arrival too - so I already understood their characters to an extent.  I just think that a guy that relies on a thrid party approval should might have questionable capabilities to start with.

Of course some will need someone to buy them a plane ticket and some won't.  Some will be able to understand the women they meet.. and some won't.

Kuna

[GregfromGa]

#14 refers to my skepticism in having a stranger give me the thumbs up or thumbs down when it comes to women.

This may just be a personal thing but I trust my judgement when it comes to the fairer sex more than I trust any man I know.  I wrote to the girls I met for a few months before arrival too - so I already understood their characters to an extent.  I just think that a guy that relies on a thrid party approval should might have questionable capabilities to start with.

Of course some will need someone to buy them a plane ticket and some won't.  Some will be able to understand the women they meet.. and some won't.

Kuna

I'm certainly not saying that your decision to marry whoever should be based solely on some guides approval. I'm saying that this process is a game to some girls. An unknowing and unsuspecting western man could very easy be taken for a ride. I just think it might be a little more difficult if your guide has your best interest in mind when meeting whatever girl. Of course I know almost all guys that go seeking marriage from a RW/UW are far too smart to ever get taken by such women. I'm just saying that there is a small chance maybe 1 percent that the girl might just be a pro dater. I mean she might just be in that very very small percentage of girls that would actually date a WM just for the hopes of some good meals and good shopping. Of course I might be wrong because that sort of thing probably never happens anymore.

[Kuna]

I'm certainly not saying that your decision to marry whoever should be based solely on some guides approval. I'm saying that this process is a game to some girls. An unknowing and unsuspecting western man could very easy be taken for a ride. I just think it might be a little more difficult if your guide has your best interest in mind when meeting whatever girl. Of course I know almost all guys that go seeking marriage from a RW/UW are far too smart to ever get taken by such women. I'm just saying that there is a small chance maybe 1 percent that the girl might just be a pro dater. I mean she might just be in that very very small percentage of girls that would actually date a WM just for the hopes of some good meals and good shopping. Of course I might be wrong because that sort of thing probably never happens anymore.

Greg,  I hear what your saying but in my mind I feel like it might be a GOOD thing to let a natural process of selection take place. If a punter needs a guide to give him advice about a girl I think he'll need much more than a guide if he ever gets married.

I'm not saying there's NO need for a guide but if a guy needs a guide to keep his wallet in his pocket he might just have the guide digging in there without knowing it.

Just my opinion... Some are going to need help with the girls... some will have enough experience to survive without.

Maybe if I'd had problems with girls not guides I might think the same way you did.  Fortunately the girls I met were all honest and had integrity.

Kuna

[Stirlitz]

In my experience, men often need advice. I particularly have a hard time trying to explain that a certain woman is not worth pursuing. “Yes, you are probably right… but I want to give her a second chance…” When I hear that I know that we are in for trouble, waste of time and money and ending up frustrated. At the end of the day, “Yes, you were right”.

The bottom line is if you have to think about giving a second chance to a woman, it means something is wrong with her and she is best forgotten. Just move on instead. You will only waste time.

But this is off-topic.

[Turboguy]

I have never worked with a male guide but I have worked with a number of female interpreters, three fairly extensively.   Two of those I consider friends and they have generally been very helpful.  I think a woman can sometimes have some insight into other women that can be good.  The third may have not been my friend although she claimed to be.  I think she did more to manipulate me for her own gain than to assist me as I would have expected.

I do think a male guide who was familiar with the culture and the local mentality could do the same.  I think I, or even most of us, could size up an American woman far better than someone from overseas who only knew a little of the language.

[GregfromGa]

Turbo that is exactly my point. It took my wife about 2 minutes to size up two different girls that were dating American friends in Kiev. I can honestly say she was dead on with her assumptions as well. Both were ready to go shopping after about 2 hours of walking on Khreshatic.  There is just no way anyone can tell me that a guide that has your best interest in mind cant help you a lot more than hurt you.

[Mod1]

Removed the "Marketing" messages. Please keep the personal issues off the board. Thank you.