Any suggestions on guiding this guy?

[Zhena]

Well his ancestors are from Yougoslavia or something. He was born in america and considers himself very american.
Yes she has SSN.

[Muj]

They may be aware of it, but in today's politically correct society local governments have a policy of "don't ask, don't tell".  They can't ask you if you are a U.S citizen or even if you are here legally, and if they even suspect they (local governments) have enacted regulations forbidding them from informing the federal government.  

The medical information privacy laws are very strict.  However the hospitals may even hire a PI to help in the collection of large bills.

[BillyB]

Where's the fire?????

The woman in question has nothing to return to in Ukraine. When your own friends and family won't help you in your time of need, it says more about you than your friends and family.

She never introduced her husband to her family and didn't at least tell them she had a man visiting her. I don't like to be in secret relationships, do you?

She bad mouths her husband behind his back. I understand why he's pissed. If you're ready to bad mouth your spouse behind their back, you need to understand you will damage your relationship if you're caught. Loose lips sink ships.

She brings in Muj, his wife and others to interfere with her relationship when there is no physical abuse. Again, I understand why her husband is pissed. If she don't like the marriage, she was free to get out of it. Now her husband will resist talking to anybody about his marriage because he knows the only reason they would want to talk to him is to talk about how to improve the bad man his wife says he is. That's sure to help anybody's marriage

Muj, how and in what way can you help her??? Sounds like the help she wants is to lean on someone for support while they help her get her marriage destroyed. Muj, if you can't make someone's marriage better and stronger, get out of the way and leave it alone. There's not many things worse when unwelcome people try to get into other people's business.

So the guy commits medical fraud. At what point to people start acting like police and report illegal activity? Do you call the cops when the guy in front of you is violating the speed limit or call when someone murders another? I'll call the cops to report a murder but I don't think I'll call the cops pertaining to medical fraud. Besides, some of these welfare organizations get a bigger government budget if more people are utilizing their programs so they're not trying very hard to get people kicked out of their programs anyway.

I wouldn't live with over 90% of you people out there. Does that mean I should think you all have problems, criminals, are a$$holes, or abusive towards a person you do live with based on their words and try to change who you are, report you to the cops, and get involved in your marriage to save it or break it up as I deem necessary?

In this world there are marriages and people's lives that are really hurting compared to the one described.

If the marriage breaks up because the guy is cheap, a fraud, etc..... are you guys ready to save the next woman guy marries and the next and the next....?

[Wayne B]

One minute time out....sword in the corner....deep breath....ok....now?   Billy is right. Cut the 'Bull $HIT' and move forward or move on....

[Zhena]

BillyB,
I expected such a reply and surprised noone wrote it before. In the pther words,you wanted to say-its not your or my problem so dont interfere. Shes bad herself.
Believe me,I never interfere if someone doesnt ask for help,and she does. She doesnt know the laws at all and her husband uses that to save some$$. If something,she will be blamed,not him. She just seeks for the ways to protect herself,and shes pregnant which makes her more insecure. Shes not my friend but I knew her for some time before she moved in usa. Shes not that bad,shes a survivor who cant expect any help from her family-cos her family expects for the help from her! Her parents in the forgotten by God village.
So,I never was an ignorant person if someone asks for help. That guy,her husband,I dont understand. He has enough money for any hospital,but he pushes her through the tortures.

[Muj]

BillyB,

She is afraid for her child and self as she is wonders on the future of her medical services.  DKMM and others offers some explanation and guidance.  We both take her comments and complaints about her husband with a grain of salt.  Most agree that husband and wife share blame in a poor situation.  The title is what to say to him, ok, BillyB, your advice is do nothing.   Well I help people when they ask, especially friends and family.

[Muj]

One minute time out....sword in the corner....deep breath....ok....now?   Billy is right. Cut the 'Bull $HIT' and move forward or move on....

Where's your beef WayneB?  Not a subject that affects you? 

[BillyB]

I don't help out everybody who asks. I won't give money to a fat beggar on the street but I will donate money to skinny starving children.

Zhena, Muj, it's an honorable thing to want to help somebody but BEWARE of the help asked of you. What is the agenda of the person asking for help? A few times in my life a few friends came to me and have talked of problems in their marriage and ask me for "help". I read between the lines and I knew they were looking for a way out but I refused to bad mouth and criticize their wife to promote the breakup of their marriage. I focused on the good things about their wife. Turned out their problems weren't much problems of all and they weren't in need of help or rescuing as what was initially thought.

I wouldn't say anything to the husband. The fact you know of potential marital problems(his problems of course) based on his wife's words and the medical fraud that may or may not be happening, he'll know who's been shooting off her mouth which in turn will put more strain on the marriage. I would tell the woman she doesn't need to fill out any medical forms for financial assistance in a particular way she's uncomfortable with. Her husband can fill it out in his handwriting if he's so desperate for financial aid.

I still don't see the need for help that requires outside interference by giving the husband forced counseling. He won't value anybody's words except for the people he values. Maybe his wife should talk to his mom and dad, and siblings?

[Muj]

BillyB,

Ok, fair enough advice.  It is hard not hearing his position to fully understand the situation.  Posts by others have helped us in understanding this situation.  We're not trying to upend the apple cart here and we all know she is no angel.  Her situation is real BillyB, we're not talking of some name calling or silly arguments.  Be real BillyB, why would she make up this story?  Is this the typical fabrication? 

   

[BillyB]

BillyB,

 Be real BillyB, why would she make up this story? 
   

She either wants out of the marriage and needs someone to feel sorry for her and take care of her or she wants to stay in the marriage and hopes someone can change her husband to the way she sees fit. There's usually a little truth to every story and I mean little truth. People tend to exaggerate things as necessary.

The fact that she never insisted on her husband meeting her family tells me she's not proud of him even before marriage. So what is he to her? A visa mule? If she wants to talk bad about her husband behind his back, she better have a damn good reason. When I was in the military, there were a lot of guys with "issues" but I don't go and talk behind their backs because we were a team(family) that may need to depend on each other when the going gets tough.

Muj, does this woman have only bad things to say about her husband or does she mention the many fine traits he may possess, the kind of traits that attracted her to marry him?

[Muj]

BillyB,

She has positive comments and even defends his behaviour, for instance the cell phone call.   She has a major problem, she wonders of the future of medical support.  Not being judgemental, but most parents expect medical service for the pregnancy and after.

[DKMM]

I don't get the issue here.  If he truly "makes a good living" which I highly doubt, he either has a mental defect or he would ensure she gets proper care for their child.

Obviously they are uninsured, so she should go somewhere that is free.  If she's local to us Muj, send her to the Free Clinic of Southwest Washington.  Its just fine and as good as any medical facility she could ever hope for back home.

Her marital problems are her problem to deal with, but this is America, she and the kid will be taken care of without this bums support.  If he insists she use a paying facility then yeah she risks getting caught for fraud, but its not going to amount to anything.  They don't throw mothers in jail for this sort of thing.  Her husband would be on the hook too, so he has a reason for her not to get caught (which goes back to the mental defect thing).

Sorry she married an idiot but marrying someone like that is kinda your own fault. 

[Bruno]

She didnt take his name. Before she went to a free clinic,she got some lab tests and ultrasound in a normal clinic-and got the bills about $2000 on HER name. He is not going to pay them. She cant force him and as we found out,he wont be punished in any way if he doesnt pay.

Are you sure that they are husband and wife? If these guy have some self-respect, he will support and pay bill for his wife and coming child !

When my ex-Russian wife have come in Belgium with her daughter, her daughter have be very ill before we receive the social security benefit... she have stay two week in hospital, intensive care... resultat, 300.000 Belgium franc, almost 10.000$... in place of zero ( i have the legal social security who cover 75% of the expense and a private one who cover the remaining )...

Since i was married and responsible for my wife and child, i have pay... all my spare money away but without regret, it was for my family.

The guy is a idiot, a danger for other... he have buy a russian bride and think that all expense was finish... so much people here speak about money for the dating process but it is little money when compare with the expense AFTER the marriage...

Don't know for US but here, the free clinic are owned by state... soon of later, they will find the true about the situation and these couple will receive the bill and some legal problem... i have a friend who have try to fµck of the Belgium system... 17 year after, he have receive the bill, with interest and justice expense... here, for private, the maximum delay for clain debt is 10 year... for state, no maximum delay !!!

One question, are they married with a pre-nups ? Since they are married, if the woman have medical bill and she is not able to pay, can the hospital claim the money to the husband ? What about the "support document" sign for "import" a bride...

[Turboguy]

If he is too cheap to pay for a doctor I doubt he was willing to pay for a lawyer to do a prenup. 

The affidavit of support you sign to bring a K-1 in is non binding.  The one you sign to adjust status is binding.  I believe they have passed through the AOS so it would be binding.

I think another factor that is important is that she is in a strange country and there is no way she is going to know how all the systems work and what is available to her.

[William3rd]

prenups have no effect on third parties and contractual debt relationships. An example would be community debts. Even a divorce decree apportioning debt does not prevent a bill collector from going after the other spouse as the bill collector was not a party to the proceeding.

The 864 is also a contractual relationship with the government above and beyond whatever a family court or a prenup can control.

THere are some cases that absolve the alien spouse from the fraud issues in the context of an abusive relationship.

[Wayne B]

Where's your beef WayneB?  Not a subject that affects you? 

Muj, yes this is a subject that affects me and anyone else who truely cares about other people.... I am worried more about the stress of a preganent woman and her unborn baby! I believe that Elen and her unborn baby is the main priority 'NOW' all else can wait!  To help her find medical care for the duration of her pregnancy is the most important thing that you can do as her friend!!! for now.

[Mir]

but this is America, she and the kid will be taken care of without this bums support.

http://www.ucpress.edu/books/pages/10379/10379.intro.html

[Turboguy]

Muj,  I read Wayne's post a little differently than you did.  Perhaps I am wrong but I read that post as suggesting everyone was getting a bit carried away and to calm down and try to work together in a positive way to come up with good thoughts and not as a lack of interest.

[Zhena]

[Are you sure that they are husband and wife?/quote]
Yes.

soon of later, they will find the true about the situation

Possible.

[/One question, are they married with a pre-nups ?quote]
[quoteIf he is too cheap to pay for a doctor I doubt he was willing to pay for a lawyer to do a prenup.]

You re wrong,Turbo-he sacrificed some money for the lawyer and made a big prenup. By that prenup,she doesnt have a right at any on his property. He also wont support her financially in the case of divorce.

[The guy is a idiot, a danger for other... he have buy a russian bride and think that all expense was finish... so much people here speak about money for the dating process but it is little money when compare with the expense AFTER the marriage.../quote]
Yes,he thought exactly that way,seeing a fsu wife as a good deal. And he was shocked how much money he needs to pay now...He never thought about that.

[Bruno]

Is it possible that the guy have marry these RW only for have a male child ? Once the baby there, he divorce, she receive nothing except the hospital bill and he keep the baby...

Don't know, but something is wrong with these guy... have money but use it only for protect himself with pre-nups... he is greedy with the wife ( maybe she have become pregnant because he have not give money for contraceptive pills )...

Seem that these girl is a potential victim who will become a know story within the feminazi women, who will help to build the IMBRA II...

Is these guy using some money to language or professional course for his lady?

[Zhena]

[Is these guy using some money to language or professional course for his lady? 
Posted on: Today at 03:30:03 PMPosted by: Zhena 
/quote]
Nope. When she only was going to usa,she planned to work and study for a nurse. Now she cant do it temporarily...we will see what will be in the future. When she asks him to give her some money,he becomes sick and angry ::)I just hope she ll have enough power to convince him that she needs a job. He always cries that she spends too much for the food(and that not much,i know),as he eats hamburgers and pizza and its cheaper.

[BillyB]

I remember a thread here where a woman assumed her husband was cheap and didn't want her to work or feed her or buy her any feminine products in a possible abuse situation. A married couple took her in their home so she could get away from her terrible husband. They supported her and wanted to beat the crap out of her husband according to a post on a Yahoo Capital Group consisting of RW and American men. Catzenmouse brought the topic to RWD and some posters started to feel sorry for the RW and there were calls to arm herself with attorneys and protect herself from the evil husband. Forum members at RWD were divided and at times, calling each other names.

I happened to read visajourney for the second time ever and a thread caught my eye that was started by a guy who may be the husband that was talked about at RWD. I PM'd him and sent him a link to RWD, a link directly to the topic at hand and he turned out to be the husband in question and started posting on page 7. I also put a link to his visajourney story on page 7 too. I urge everybody to read the thread to see how two different views play out and how people who want to help can actually hurt another couples marriage. The characters are real, the combatants are real, the drama is intense. Viewer discretion is advised.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1449.0

Here's a link a member from the Yahoo group gave out as advice for the woman who needed help. I think advice like this for "all situations" without knowing the facts are reckless on the part of people and feminist groups and sure to unnecessarily scare and program women to the point of no return to husband and break up marriages.
http://www.russianwomenabroad.com/PAGE371.html

[Zhena]

I didnt read your link yet,but I will. Of course,he has his point of view. Menthality difference or how you may call it. Ok,I will continue the thoughts after reading that link.

[Zhena]

Ok I finished to read his point. What I gotta say,is the expectations were very different. You say he provided her a better life here in usa than ukraine? Not necessarily. She wanna stay here cos here more possibilities for the future,even if she will live alone. I guess noone leaves a good husband,why should she? Or you want to say she should be grateful cos he pulled her from the misery? And she shouldnt want to dress normally and buy some cosmetics? Come on. He didnt say how he treated her,did he? Any woman expects some level of decent treatment,even she was poor before.
I absolutely believe to everything a girl a wrote about is saying. She feels like used also,believe me.

[Zhena]

Anyway,I feel its a time to close this topic cos the men dont want to get involved-its your right. I absolutely agree what Mischief wrote in that old topic. We r women see this under other light...But I hope,this story possibly will make those guys who r not married yet,to think what their fiancees expectations and are they able to provide her a life she wont be disappointed with?