Overcoming the language barrier

[I/O]

WayneB Many more commonalities between the underlying ethos of many Texans and the older pattern of Aussies than many realise.  The Texans I know personally rate among the finest people I know.

I/O

[Jazzyclassy]

      I think it highly undesirable to promote to the freshmen that it is anything less than "Bloody Hard" if not impossible if you don't have common language.

FWIW

I/O                           

You are probably right dear I/O just I spoke a little from how I see it and forgot about freshpeople, though am sure they understand that if a couple has no common language to communicate it is very very hard to achieve some deep understanding and trust, But again without some affection and feelings, it will be much more hard to do, cos none of both will strive to learn this or that language, they would not care

so love and feelings are still involved so so much for sure

And yes dear I/O  you better know than me how it should be done when people do not have common language so let those freshmen read my post as something additional:)

[Jazzyclassy]

BTW thank you for complementing me for my english , I still do not understand sometimes what my J is talking about while he talks about aircrafts and  aviation terms , though I asked him to give me these tech words to learn about aviation, and am reading some ATC manual wow can understand only 50% of the text sometimes ahhahaha

[jb]

Yep,,, I think it is difficult for someone like Jazzy to understand what we are discussing since she has a fair grip on English.  We say "Language Barrier", and she says, "What language barrier?"

Jazzy, we are referring in this thread to the dangers one encounters when the two people don't share ANY common language.  We read often of men who meet girls in the agencies, usually in the little backwater towns where few foreigners ever go, with whom they cannot have a conversation without the aid of an interpreter.  They actually don't share 10 words in common.  When Eastern Europeans and Asians are in such situations their natural tendency is to mask their confusion with smiles and giggles which some men (those who lack dating and x-cultural people skills) often mistake for "chemistry", i.e., "wow, we didn't understand much, but she really laughed at my jokes, she must like me a lot."   What he should be thinking is; "This is the most uncomfortable situation I've ever been in.  What the hell do I do now?" 

All too often such meetings result in a one week wonder romance where the girl is desperate enough and the man has the social graces of a baboon, and another K-1 failure is launched.  Perhaps we don't see it so much now on this board as we used to over on the RWG, but my wife reads several of the Russian Women message forums where the girls will really let their hair down.  She was remarking just the other day about a story she'd read where a girl married a man 30+ years older than herself.  She admitted that the only reason she married him was to escape from the crappy, dirty, little Siberian town she lived in, where she saw no future for herself, and he was the only man who came to see her.  The girl also admits that she has never loved the old fool and will leave him as soon as she is able to prepare a "landing strip".   This sort of thing goes on more frequently than most can imagine and could be avoided with better communication skills.  I'll bet the starry cosal who married that young girl thought to himself at the time, "wow, she really digs me".

[Jazzyclassy]

          She was remarking just the other day about a story she'd read where a girl married a man 30+ years older than herself.  She admitted that the only reason she married him was to escape from the crappy, dirty, little Siberian town she lived in, where she saw no future for herself, and he was the only man who came to see her.  The girl also admits that she has never loved the old fool and will leave him as soon as she is able to prepare a "landing strip".   This sort of thing goes on more frequently than most can imagine and could be avoided with better communication skills.  I'll bet the starry cosal who married that young girl thought to himself at the time, "wow, she really digs me".              

Oy  absolutely Jb I do understand things

I am just encouraging people and try to be positive and friendly and try to understand all those old men as you pointed it, why they actually hit on those young  30 y.o younger than them russian girls with lack of english language and so on ...... and the story goes on and on

and you told a very typical story which is not the last and not the first one

 so before speaking about the language barrier , those freshpeople should understand why do they  need this international dating? that is the first question to my mind which they should consider

and it is not about the language the problem is much more deeper than that......

[jb]

so before speaking about the language barrier , those freshpeople should understand why do they  need this international dating? that is the first question to my mind which they should consider

and it is not about the language the problem is much more deeper than that......

Ahhh ha, Jazzy,,, now you begin to step on toes with that comment.  Don't you understand that, according to the MOB indrustry, all fat, bald, and ugly AM over 50 deserve a hot, young, 20's y.o. bride from Russian or Ukraine?  And all AM over 60 deserve a slim and lovely bride in her 30's, younger if he's rich? 

You obviously just don't understand the system.   

[catzenmouse]

Too Funny jb!

 Yes, we need to keep on the right track here at RWD. All fat, old, relationship challenged men deserve a SmokinHotKova!

 I need to remember that and stop all this nonsense about reality! We don't need no stinkin' reality!

Ken

[groovlstk]

I'd argue that given their considerable investment, these old, fat, relationship-challenged fellows deserve their smokinhotovas, only they should be told up-front that she comes with an expiration date of When Green Card Arrives.

[jb]

I believe these old, fat, relationship-challenged fellows deserve their smokinhotkovas as long as they come with a bright young step-son who can figure out how to work MicroSoft's new Vista software. 

Geesh~! We had to replace one of the computers here yesterday and I've learned I am sadly behind the times.  I'm still locked in a Windows 98 world and the technology has bypassed me somehow.  Will I ever catch up?

[catzenmouse]

Just pop down to the local middle school. Any 12 year old now knows way more about computers than I ever will! We've got a 6 year old that tells him mom what to do and where to click.

Make way! It's time I head out to the tar pit and go the way of the rest of my dinosaur clan!

Ken

[KenC]

Ahhh ha, Jazzy,,, now you begin to step on toes with that comment.  Don't you understand that, according to the MOB indrustry, all fat, bald, and ugly AM over 50 deserve a hot, young, 20's y.o. bride from Russian or Ukraine?  And all AM over 60 deserve a slim and lovely bride in her 30's, younger if he's rich? 

You obviously just don't understand the system.   

Hey jb!
I ain't bald!!!

I had to laugh about your comment up thread about the RW smiling and giggling when she didn't understand what was being said.  When Lena arrived here her comprehension level was about 70 to 80%, but she would never ask if she didn't understand either.  One late night we had stopped at an all night store for something and as we were walking to our car, I spotted some shady characters giving us a little too much attention.  We were still living in the Detroit area so one must always keep his radar up.  Any way, Lena is blah blahing nonstop about something oblivious to anything else around her as I tell her, "Just get in the car."  More blah blah blah from her.  "Lena, just get in the damn car now!"  Blah blah blah.  After she finally got into the car and we drove off she admitted that she had trouble with the "get into" and wondered why I wanted her to "get on top" of the car.

It takes a lot of time to really integrate into the language of a new country.  After almost 9 years here, Lena's English vocabulary is rich and her accent is almost gone.  But I still take the time, to correct her errors and she is now getting fed a lot of new vocabulary through her university studies.  Last night she kind of thew me when she said, "This chicken soup you made is KILLER!" 
KenC

[Kuna]

After almost 9 years here, Lena's English vocabulary is rich and her accent is almost gone. 

NOOOOO... don't tell me THAT!

I was joking with My Girl the other night about her English lessons and I said when she eventually comes to Australia we'll have to find her "Russian Accent Lessons" so she never loses her accent!   

Of course she said, "I don't have an accent"...

[I/O]

Ahhh ha, Jazzy,,, now you begin to step on toes with that comment.  Don't you understand that, according to the MOB indrustry, all fat, bald, and ugly AM over 50 deserve a hot, young, 20's y.o. bride from Russian or Ukraine?  And all AM over 60 deserve a slim and lovely bride in her 30's, younger if he's rich? 

You obviously just don't understand the system.   

My sentiments precisely...!!!!   JB, maybe if one of the young Russian women aka Jazz starts to hammer the silly fools a bit on this point they might wake up? They'll certainly never accept it from the rest of us.

Jazz, JB is right on the money in his comments upthread, you are uneffected by this to a large extent. Not discounting your opinion but it is really IMHO the MOST serious area that so many people approach far to flippantly. You see, when you have that ability to communicate, that romance that you naturally uphold so much can come with all the wonderful things that go with it.  No language, it is simply a basic friendship with perhaps some intimate bonuses. This caper requires much much more to reach the real level of what we all, including the real romantics among us want.

I/O

[LEGAL]

When I talk with my relatives and friends in Russia sometimes I use English words  and sometimes I can not remember a Russian word but I remember this English word  And I have big problem with English articles 

Olga

[I/O]

When I talk with my relatives and friends in Russia sometimes I use English words  and sometimes I can not remember a Russian word but I remember this English word  And I have big problem with English articles 

Olga

Olga: A question.  You obviously are far in front of many with your grasp of English. You work as I understand, as Legal's assitant from time to time.  In this industry, most terminology is quite precise.  Do you have more difficulty with the depth of precise terminology or with social relaxed converstation?

I/O

[Kuna]

When I talk with my relatives and friends in Russia sometimes I use English words  and sometimes I can not remember a Russian word but I remember this English word  And I have big problem with English articles 

Olga

Olga,

When my girl speak to me she'll speak in English but drop the occassional German word in because she knows I have "fair" German.  It makes it hard to keeep up but she seems to do fine.

While together in Ukr she was trying to teach me a little Russian so she would speak in Russian and throw occassional English AND German words in.  THAT was much more difficult!   

At times my had was SPINNING!

Kuna

[LEGAL]

Olga: A question.  You obviously are far in front of many with your grasp of English. You work as I understand, as Legal's assitant from time to time.  In this industry, most terminology is quite precise.  Do you have more difficulty with the depth of precise terminology or with social relaxed converstation?

I/O

I/O,

When I can not understand  word or I don't know this English word I just can guess and ask LEGAL  The colleagues and friends of LEGAL are very nice and  understanding people and I really don't feel any discomfort when I have social conversation with them 
Of course my vocabulary is not so rich but it is not difficult to find a synonym  Many Russian words are loan-words and adopted by Russians 

Olga

[jb]

I think the issue here is that all the RWs who have joined this thread speak English on a 4+ scale out of 5.  I know my own little wife is in the same boat, while her English skills are extraordinary good, it is obvious to everyone she is not a native speaker the moment she opens her mouth.  But the point we have been laboring so hard to make for the freshmen is not about the women who are near fluent, but those girls they will meet in the agency who have English skills below -1, and require an interpreter for every conversation.  This is the language barrier that must be addressed before anyone can say definitively that they have "fallen" in love. 

Kuna and I/O, don't worry about her losing her accent.  I'm told by a speach therapist friend that the accent stems from how they learned to speak their native tougue, the positioning of the mouth, lips, and tongue as they make sounds.  These habits will last a lifetime so there will always be an decernable accent.  My wife of 5 years still shows no sign of losing hers.  (Olga, she also still drops an artical of speech from time to time).

[SANDRO43]

Olga: A question.  You obviously are far in front of many with your grasp of English. You work as I understand, as Legal's assitant from time to time. In this industry, most terminology is quite precise.  Do you have more difficulty with the depth of precise terminology or with social relaxed converstation?

I/O, I'm not Olga and I don't know what sort of industry she is enaged in with LEGAL but, having worked as a technical translator for some 6 years before joining IBM, I can tell you that technical terminology is the easiest to translate, because in specialised terminology there usually is a 1-to-1 correspondence among the various languages involved (of course, a technical background is also a great benefit).

What is more difficult to translate is common language (owing to cultural references/stereotypes) and 'art' language. One of my old clients was painter Arnaldo Pomodoro (brother of the more widely known sculptor Giò Pomodoro), who wanted the critiques of his work translated into English. That was a really tough nut to crack (I couldn't understand what the original Italian meant, most of the times ).

[LEGAL]

For example :  technics - техника (tekhnika) 

Olga.

[MaxxumUSA]

Olga,

When my girl speak to me she'll speak in English but drop the occassional German word in because she knows I have "fair" German.  It makes it hard to keeep up but she seems to do fine.

While together in Ukr she was trying to teach me a little Russian so she would speak in Russian and throw occassional English AND German words in.  THAT was much more difficult!   

At times my had was SPINNING!

Kuna

Kuna,

I am learning russian.  But I was in Germany for three years.  So...  when I am FIRST learning a new russian phrase the first thing that pops in my mind is the german phrase.  For instance I learned "I have" recently in russian...  referring to money.  This is U minya in russian.  In german it is Ich(e) Habe(st).  (I know spelling is off)  And the literal meanings are quite different.  Iche habe kein deutschmark.  U minya nyet rubel.  Hmm...  simple after a few years maybe...  but learning is difficult when your first language is simply "I'm broke!"  LOL

Just thought I'd throw this in.

- dave

[SANDRO43]

I am learning russian.

Maxxum, are you doing that on your own, or with a human teacher ?

A competent teacher, fluent in both languages, would normally point out right at the start the major differences (particularly in syntax) between the two languages, such as Russian not possessing the verb TO HAVE and replacing it with a periphrastic expression ("with me, at me"), not having the definite article (THE), the difference between imperfective and perfective verbs, etc. etc. 

[DKMM]

Maxxum, do not worry.  You will cross over in no time as long as you stop using German.  I spoke German a lot during my 1st year of Russian study, but after a while I dropped it.  Now when I try to converse in German, Russian comes to my brain first or at best I speak with a Russian accent.  Soon you will forget the difference between mochten, brauchen und muss but know the difference between khochet, nuzhno and nado.

[Jazzyclassy]

I/O, I'm not Olga and I don't know what sort of industry she is enaged in with LEGAL but, having worked as a technical translator for some 6 years before joining IBM, I can tell you that technical terminology is the easiest to translate, because in specialised terminology there usually is a 1-to-1 correspondence among the various languages involved (of course, a technical background is also a great benefit).

What is more difficult to translate is common language (owing to cultural references/stereotypes) and 'art' language. One of my old clients was painter Arnaldo Pomodoro (brother of the more widely known sculptor Giò Pomodoro), who wanted the critiques of his work translated into English. That was a really tough nut to crack (I couldn't understand what the original Italian meant, most of the times ).

I agree with Sandro here, technical English is far more easier than literature style and some colloquial speech sometimes, newspaper style is easy when you already possess some necessary vocabulary cos it is almost the combination of cliche and set phrases typical for newspaper style, once you know the lexics , you will be translating these articles and manuals like eating chocos:)

 

I do not feel like answering  anything to JB and I/O cos my point of view is my point of view , at this period of time of my life, kinda not comfortable to always be sorry of my opinion and be always afraid- Oh what if I just told something bad which goes in the contrary of those people's point, just I need a  coffee- break please:)  , thank you. Of course I do appreciate your opinion so much , but my brainless mind can not got it right now:))

thank you so much beforehand for understanding:)

[MaxxumUSA]

Maxxum, are you doing that on your own, or with a human teacher ?

A competent teacher, fluent in both languages, would normally point out right at the start the major differences (particularly in syntax) between the two languages, such as Russian not possessing the verb TO HAVE and replacing it with a periphrastic expression ("with me, at me"), not having the definite article (THE), the difference between imperfective and perfective verbs, etc. etc. 

Sandro,

I am currently learning from the Pimsleur CD's.  Almost done with series one.  Should be done before I fly to Russia again - BTW... One week from today I will be there again with my darling!  I fly Mar 29 from USA.

To answer your question completely - just pimsleur.  I tried a few phrases on my GF and she nearly screams with joy.  She exclaims "WoW...  You sound just like a Russian!" which is great, but I don't have a large vocabulary.  I review each lesson until I know and pronounce the words like on the CD.  Some lessons this takes 1/2 day, others 3 days. 

DK,

When I learn a new Russian phrase or word combination some of the time my mind pops into German until I drill the Russian into its place.  I lived in Germany for three years from 1987-1990.  When I left the Kaserne (Army Base) I thought and spoke German.  But it was not book german.  It was speach just picked up naturally from traveling on the economy almost every weekend.  Funny thing is I don't speak it fluently now.  Now that I'm trying to learn Russian it is coming back!  Very strange.

LOL...  One funny thing...  I was practicing for two days some certain words, something like "Wouldn't you like to have a drink"  In russian.  So I tell my GF "Ne Hatsili bu vu shtonybut veuwpet somnoi"  (I do not spell russian yet.  bear with me for now.)  But I did not have it right quite yet.  She showed me first hand that russians will be impatient with poor russian pronunciation.     So I practiced another few weeks before revealing more to her.    Now she digs it.