Different perceptions of RW and UW

[Elen]

It's Russian classic fable " Elephant and Mos'ka" wrote by Ivan Krylov
Mos'ka is a name of a little dog who wase  barking at an elephant at a street

СЛОН И МОСЬКА
       По улицам Слона водили,
         Как видно напоказ -
Известно, что Слоны в диковинку у нас -
    Так за Слоном толпы зевак ходили.
Отколе ни возьмись, навстречу Моська им.
Увидевши Слона, ну на него метаться,
       И лаять, и визжать, и рваться,
       Ну, так и лезет в драку с ним.
       "Соседка, перестань срамиться,-
Ей шавка говорит,- тебе ль с Слоном возиться?
Смотри, уж ты хрипишь, а он себе идет
                 Вперед
И лаю твоего совсем не примечает".-
"Эх, эх! - ей Моська отвечает,-
Вот то-то мне и духу придает,
    Что я, совсем без драки,
Могу попасть в большие забияки.
Пускай же говорят собаки:
   "Ай, Моська! знать она сильна,
       Что лает на Слона!"

That fable is re-called each time here when some "little but proud nation" ( or some other group from some "small place") starts ( and in 99% it's exactly such nation who STARTS) to speak about superiority complex of "others"

From my life experience it ALWAYS was that way - I never had a time to open my mouth to say something to demonstrate my moscow superiority Each time I was just "informed" AHEAD about it by others ( like it was in this thread as well  ) 

[wiz]

Wiz,

You sound so bitter about these women....Are you speaking from your own personal experiences?  If so, how did you meet them?  Internet?  Agencies?

E

Erwin

I am not bitter or have a dim view of Russian women and Turbo my last experience has not affected my original and general impressions of Russian women.

My comments do not apply for the whole female FSU population but are my own, just general (not specific to each woman I have met) impressions, and I have met a few over the years in various places and different circumstances.

I have never used an Agency or a translator when communicating with an FSU woman. I find both unnecessary. If I can not communicate directly with any woman I just drop her. How the hell you can have a relationship when you need to have a translator?

Agencies for me is like the internet supermarket. You make your order, pay the bill and then take what they offer you ...... good or bad quality. Sorry but I like to do the shopping personally and choose what I think is good for me. Of course not many men have the luxury of time, as I do, and they have to use agencies and pay for their services.

I prefer to use the Free Dating sites and I have my own little system to flush out the scammers and those women who do not speak adequate English.

When I find a woman that I think is very promising then I stop all my communications with other women and concentrade on this relationship. Unfortunately I have not been lucky to find the right woman for me. Maybe I am very choosy or difficult to live with!

I like women who are not only attractive but intellectual and have also challenging personalities. Timid or quiet personalities is not my cup of tea.

[Mir]

Spaseeba Elen

I understand now

[timothe]

IT's more natural for those who came from "small" towns and from "little nations" to have a inferiority complex Mostly it's they who try to prove "something there" each time in order to show their "value" Just classic situation with  Слон и Моська

Jazzy, this quote demonstrates my reasoning for believing Lily is(was) a fraud.  Muscovite women ALWAYS have an opinion about provincial women.  I gave Lily an opportunity to discuss this in my test, but her response was particularly non-opinionated.  Therefore, I knew she couldn't have truly been a Muscovite woman. 

[Jazzyclassy]

Jazzy, this quote demonstrates my reasoning for believing Lily is(was) a fraud.  Muscovite women ALWAYS have an opinion about provincial women.  I gave Lily an opportunity to discuss this in my test, but her response was particularly non-opinionated.  Therefore, I knew she couldn't have truly been a Muscovite woman. 

Dear Timothy

well as far as I remember Lily told while commenting in some topic I do not remember now which topic it was,  that she came to Moscow sometime ago , so she never was trully a Moscovite girl , so that's understandable that she was not protective of Moscow so much

[Gator]

Russian woman  differers from Ukraine with the fact that if she comes to another country she tries to adopt and do like the other people do follow their traditions and so on , of course preserving her own culture , and ukraine woman is trying to boss her own culture everywhere she goes

Careful Jazzy.  I think this is more the personality of the woman rather than her mother country.  Many RWD men married to UW will probably disagree with you.  And our infamous "Mila", a RW, certainly was not trying to follow American traditions.   

I will be fair, to support your thesis I will give you the example of  my ex-fiancee (a 10+ - generation Moscow woman).  She came to America and loved my city and way of life (with some minor exceptions).  She was adjusted by the second day here.  If anything, I think she is now more Latin-American in her soul than Russian.

My fiancee  never said anything bad about anyone, including Ukrainians.  Although if we ever saw a woman in unfashionable flashy clothes and pancake makeup, she would say “Ukrainian”.  I would ask how do you know she is from Ukraine and not a Russian village.  She would agree and comment that true Muscovites are perhaps in the minority now due to the rapid influx of people from outside Moscow.

[Turboguy]

Erwin

I am not bitter or have a dim view of Russian women and Turbo my last experience has not affected my original and general impressions of Russian women.

My comments do not apply for the whole female FSU population but are my own, just general (not specific to each woman I have met) impressions, and I have met a few over the years in various places and different circumstances.

Wiz, you are almost a newbie just getting started compared to the number of women I wrote to and met with looking for the right one.  In my case but not yours it was mostly my own stupidity.  If I would have had a resource like RWD to draw on I could have clue batted myself into much more productive processes.  There are some great women and the key is not to abandon ship, just shake off the dust and keep at it and you will find happiness beyond what you thought possible. 

No it is not true , there is no complex  at all, I think just some misunderstanding   but it is never complex , I have no problems with the rest of Russia

Jazzy, that is great.  It shows you are a wiser and more balanced person than many who live in Moscow.  I to think based on a lot of the posts I have read that many Moscovites do have a superiority complex and I have to think one of the wisest posts on the subject was Mir's comment about it really being an infererority complex.

I do believe it is real and it exists and I think there are some reasons for it.  I watched a special on Stalin the other night and it became obvious that Moscow was his surroundings.  He took from the siberian peasants and give to those who lived in Moscow.  Those in Moscow lived a very different life than the others.   I can remember an older gal I met with talking about her schoolgirl years and her student group (whose name I should remember but don't at the minute) took an excursion to Moscow.  What shocked her most about the trip, not the Kremlin, not Red Square, it was that the markets had fruit.  They had no fruit in her city.

Personally I think if you took two identical twins and moved on into a palace as a princess and moved the other to live with a pesant farmer in sibera they would grow up with a very different feeling of self worth.  I think living in Moscow in the past as compared to the villages was much the same.   The money for building, living, education and entertainment was all channeled into Moscow and St Petersburg in the days of the USSR and it developed an attitude that still exists to some extent.

[Elen]

Still can't get what exactly posts ( whose at at what board ) could support your theory about Muscovites delibery showed their superiority vs others  Also just wonder why a story of lack of fruits in some province city   could be taken like a "proof" of Muscovites complex but not about some sides of personalities of girls from province
  At least it's not Muscovites who are boasting about those fruits in Moscow shops in front of province  but province girls who use any opportunity to cry about absent of them  blaming Muscovites for that

[wiz]

Wiz, you are almost a newbie just getting started compared to the number of women I wrote to and met with looking for the right one.  In my case but not yours it was mostly my own stupidity.  If I would have had a resource like RWD to draw on I could have clue batted myself into much more productive processes.  There are some great women and the key is not to abandon ship, just shake off the dust and keep at it and you will find happiness beyond what you thought possible. 

Turbo

I am sorry my friend but you don't know the full extent of the number of FSU women that I have met over the years and I can assure you is over 20 from Russia, Moldova and Ukraine.

Maybe in your eyes I am a newbie because I have only started looking seriously last year to find the right woman for me but in the meantime meeting FSU women here in UK, Ukraine, Russia and Greece I have accumulated a small experience regarding their personalities and how they come across.

I have not abandon ship or my plan because of my last experience but at the moment I have to recuperate from my flu and of course is sensible to take a step back, reevaluate my plan and then take action.

We all write to many women and until I am sure any woman is worth visiting I am not going to make any move. Of course must not forget the waiting time for the 1 year business Visa........

In due course I will be back on the trail again and I can assure you you will be the first one to know if I met one worth pursuing.

[BC]

Still can't get what exactly posts ( whose at at what board ) could support your theory about Muscovites delibery showed their superiority vs others  Also just wonder why a story of lack of fruits in some province city   could be taken like a "proof" of Muscovites complex but not about some sides of personalities of girls from province
  At least it's not Muscovites who are boasting about those fruits in Moscow shops in front of province  but province girls who use any opportunity to cry about absent of them  blaming Muscovites for that

One has to remember that RU is a HUGE country.  I don't think discussions about Muscovites hoarding anything hold water.  IMHO it is a simple logistics problem.  Trying to get fresh tomatoes to every corner of the country before it rots even today is probably still an impossible task.

[LEGAL]

Russian anthropologists could not find the  "aboriginal" population of Moscow.

Moscow since olden times has been a   refuge of migrants.

The scientific research of burial mounds (very old burial places) has shown that the old "aboriginal" population of Moscow had the  anthropological likeness with Mordva  nationality that is pertaining to group of Finno-Ugric  nationality.


http://palm.newsru.com/arch/russia/07mar2007/moscow_antropology.html

Olga.


http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/content/x664725868737782/

[Wayne B]

Ops, my English is not SO good to understand your post

  Nat, I am interested in how you feel about President Yushshenko's apparent poisoning In the beggining of his becoming President.         Mir, give me more detail of what you are asking me  ??? and I like this avitar of you                        

[LEGAL]

The academician anthropologist Tatyana Alekseyeva has said - We have the version that the blood of ancient population of Moscow was with a touch of blood of Negroid race.

http://www.inauka.ru/discovery/article73047.html


Olga.

[Mir]

Olga

Was the negroid blood introduced by Pushkin?

[LEGAL]

Mir,

I think not only by him 

Olga.

[LEGAL]

It's Russian classic fable " Elephant and Mos'ka" wrote by Ivan Krylov
Mos'ka is a name of a little dog who wase  barking at an elephant at a street

That fable is re-called each time here when some "little but proud nation" ( or some other group from some "small place") starts ( and in 99% it's exactly such nation who STARTS) to speak about superiority complex of "others"

From my life experience it ALWAYS was that way - I never had a time to open my mouth to say something to demonstrate my moscow superiority Each time I was just "informed" AHEAD about it by others ( like it was in this thread as well  ) 

The little dog Mos'ka who was  barking at an elephant was a native of Russia (maybe even of Moscow) and elephant in Russia was a migrant 

Maybe Mos'ka was migrant too - Bichon Maltiase. Maybe Mos'ka was a half-breed - cross-breeding Bichon Maltiase and Russian watch-dog Sharik 


Olga.

[SANDRO43]

We have the version that the blood of ancient population of Moscow was with a touch of blood of Negroid race.

How ancient would that population be ? If we go back far enough (say, 50,000 years ago), traces of African blood were probably still very much in evidence in any human population group, at least according to one of the two major paleoanthropological theories of human evolution (viz. http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/johanson.html).   

[WmGO]

Dan, sorry to hear about Tootsie and her ex. I never knew him but he always seemed to make level headed posts on PL. Tootsie deserved to he happy. Wherever she is I hope she finds happiness.

Jazzy and Elen: when I used the phrase "complex" do not take that as meaning in any kind of clinical sense or even a negative judgment. It is only an academic observation. And that is why I said it is only "natural" - you see the same phenomena all over the world. You will see it in France with the Parisians for example. And I doubt that there is anywhere in the world where the superiority attitude/mentality is more stark and obvious as in America - New England in general and it's great cities in particular like NYC and Boston are open and quite vocal that they are culturally and mentally superior to the rest of the country, especially the South, Midwest and Mountain States. So don't take my observation personal, it is just a mere academic observation but it is very real, although I appreciate your point about nonMuscovites coming in with their particular views and mentalities, etc.

Gator: I agree with your observation that Russian influence is waning in the western third of Ukraine. My point was only that it is still mainly influenced by it's Russian and Soviet history and still has mainly Russian cultural characteristics although I never made it all the way to the Carpathian region so I cannot speak for that part. I almost made it there one time from Lviv but a major ice storm came in and defeated my journey.

Mir: western Ukriane certainly is more "ethnic" Ukrainian but the cultural charactersitics are still more Russian than "Ukrainian". However, I was very surprised by the feel of everything in Zhitomir. It was the most Western feeling place I have ever been to in Ukraine, even including Lviv. However, practically everyone there would, like 99% of people in the FSU, still make statements like "Marx and Lenin were right, it was just implemented incorrectly" which speaks volumes about the mentality still being more Russified/Sovietized than anything else.

Turbo: I cannot for the life of me answer your question about Texas. What a conundrum!

Disclaimer: that 99% figure was pulled out from nowhere - the point being that the vast overwhelming majority of people in the FSU still really think that way. Second disclaimer: I cannot say how Asiatics in Siberia and the Far East or folks from the Caucasus think about that subject.

Rock on people of the Earth....

[Elen]

Jazzy and Elen: when I used the phrase "complex" do not take that as meaning in any kind of clinical sense or even a negative judgment.

Ok Whatever you call "complex" there let apply it to academical observation of province who in all time and in every country rushed to big cities and who always were the first who used to brag  about what they archived in new life in front of those who stayed in province home  (and in too many cases used to look down at that very province)

PS I have not idea what you called like "more Ukrainian" Self determination was always a "problem" for that nation which were forming at a board of Polish and Russian cultures  and there were hot discussions about this issue for CENTURES. And here you are speaking with such an assurance that you do see "more Ukraininan" in somewhere 

[WmGO]

Good point Elen. That happens too.

[Elen]

Good point Elen. That happens too.

THAT happens MORE frequently than displaying of superioriyt by those who were born and raised in big cities.

[Jazzyclassy]

THAT happens MORE frequently than displaying of superioriyt by those who were born and raised in big cities.

Absolutely!

and I advise some men here to stop defending  those girls who come to Moscow for some very doubtful affairs , it is not our fault that villages are dying it is the fault of Government blame it, do not blame normal hard working Moscowites , who earn money with blood and sweat and do not steal people's working places, hubbies and plus they eventually blame moscowites of the fact that they live very poorly and hard , like if all Moscowites are living in luxury here, you are very mistaken if you think so

People do work so hard here from dusk till down to earn some crazy rubles per month !

[LEGAL]

Absolutely!

and I advise some men here to stop defending  those girls who come to Moscow for some very doubtful affairs , it is not our fault that villages are dying it is the fault of Government blame it, do not blame normal hard working Moscowites , who earn money with blood and sweat and do not steal people's working places, hubbies and plus they eventually blame moscowites of the fact that they live very poorly and hard , like if all Moscowites are living in luxury here, you are very mistaken if you think so

People do work so hard here from dusk till down to earn some crazy 12 000 rubles per month !

I agree with you Jazzy. Moscow is very expensive City to live and  ordinary muscovites work very hard.

"those girls who come to Moscow for some very doubtful affairs" usually work in very doubtful agency and in the streets. .

Olga.

[Nat]

  Nat, I am interested in how you feel about President Yushshenko's apparent poisoning In the beggining of his becoming President.                        

Well, it’s an interesting question... I won’t answer it, ok? I don’t want to talk about our president in this topic.

THAT happens MORE frequently than displaying of superioriyt by those who were born and raised in big cities.

True.

[Wayne B]

Nat, it is ok! Thank you