The Age "Old" Debate.

[Bruno]

And just how many marriages can you point out that follow such logic?  Almost every single marriage I can think of, the man is older.  It seems the norm to me.

The norm is not always related to nature... norm can change with time or country... by example, African choice large women to be wife... be large mean that they are strong for children... in the past, the situation was similar in Europe...

Since you speak of norm... take a look at http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/worldmarriage/worldmarriagepatterns2000.pdf ... the graph right below... "difference between males and females in average age at marriage"...

Seem that the now is less of 2 year difference for China, France, South Africa... With China, it represente a big part of the world population...

The big majority of country have a difference 2 to 3 years...

So let say that the norm is a woman a little more young but always around the same age...

For the more big difference ( 5-10 year ), you need to go in Africa... Can we say that AM who marry younger women follow the African norm...

EDIT : About knowing marriage where the woman is older that the man, i know a few example... mainly, it happen when the woman is in a superior position that the man... She have the money, or she have a high social status, or she is a local married with a foreign ( yep, older Belgium ladies seek young sexy russian man )...

[I/O]

For the purpose of this thread, (if it is of interest to anyone) I am hoping to avoid the extreme age gap debate (Much beyond 25 years) but rather focus on ways and means to extract the best for both partners of being in an age gap relationship. 

Elen: I refer you to this (Quoted above) section of the opening post which is and was the real point .

I/O

[Elen]

Well I reffered to your other statement ( wich you should not make if you wished to avoid extrim debate  )  I didn't create it by myself and I said that I thought it was WRONG presumtion

So what? You could take it into consideration, you could ignore it , you prefered to turn it into discussion 


Now I'm  in full attention to hear what benifits women could extract from marriages with big* age gap (*big means more tan average gap for people in tis particular country for this particular age group)  espesially from those where male is close already to OLD ( but not "mature") group.  I could think only about close prospect of inheritance 

[I/O]

Now I'm  in full attention to hear what benifits women could extract from marriages with big age gap espesially from those where male is close already to OLD ( but not mature) group.  I could think only about close prospect of inheritance 

Elen:    I think in many cases you are exactly right.   Anyway, from the input into the question thus far, I could be forgiven for thinking that there is nothing anyone brought to an age gap relationship that helped to make it work.  So the only conclusion one could draw based on information available here is that one who is in an age gap relationship must rely on "Pot Luck". 

Somehow, I think there is a bit more to it than that.

I/O

[Son of Clyde]

I like what Patrick said.

[LEGAL]

 Everyone looks at life of other people from his/her own views on life.

Some people who are unhappy in their own life always try to find the negative things in life of people who are  happy and in that way these unhappy people try to compensate their own shortcomings. Of course such people prefer to put some "sh$t" on a wedding cake or success of other people instead of saying "Congratulations".


Olga

[Wayne B]

 Of course such people prefer to put some "sh$t" on a wedding cake or success of other people instead of saying "Congratulations".


Olga
[/quote]   Olga, I am canceling Anna and I's order for the cake you were making for us

[wxman]

Preferences for mates have been going on since the dawn of mankind. Some men prefer younger women. Some men prefer older women. Some prefer overweight women, some skinny, some white, some black and on and on. The same holds true for women with their male preferences. However, the majority of couples fall into the age difference of less than 10 years, and married to the same race, and many the same religion. It's this majority that labels those outside the so called "norm" as cradle robbers and gold diggers, or find it unacceptable. Oddly, the couples who have the bigger age difference don't have a problem with the age difference, like the majority. I do think it is far more acceptable in today's society for a man to be married to a much younger woman than vice versa, but that is changing too.  The same view expressed by the majority of people against the so called "normal" age range, also pass the same type of judgement on interracial marriages and other type of marriages.  Majorities have always passed judgement against those who don't fit the mold, it's an inherited prejudice, that occurs not only with the human species.

[Gator]

Joining this discussion late, and I see my name mentioned in the beginning.

I agree with Elen that there are fewer 40-yo RW interested in 60-yo men than 20-yo RW in 40-yo men.   I say that as a 60+ yo man who has canvassed various agency catalogs looking for a 40-47 yo RW.

And I have some prrof of the 20-40 combination.  Somehow my name was recently added to a Russian dating site (I did not register or complete a profile with this agency, yet 18 months ago enrolled with a few agencies).  It erroneously lists me as age 43, and there is no photo of me.  Each week I receive at least 10-15 “winks” from women aged 19-25.  I have not corrected this, but it would be interesting to change my age to 63 and see what responses I receive from women in their early 40s.  I think it would be much less.

And when I was single and 35, I frequently dated women in their early 20s in America (including an 18-yo, and I did not sleep with her out of fear of her 39-yo father).   Today it is rare to find on sites such as Yahoo older AW stating an age preference of more than 5 years.

All of this supports what Elen wrote earlier, yet it does not address what I/O asked when he started this thread.  I will now watch some basketball Final Four and return later.

[Ste]

Let's face it, the 'boxes' have moved. 60 is the new 40. Men aren't physically knackered at 60 like they used to be any more. My dad died at 68, his at 49, because of sheer toil. Certainly here in the UK the toil is gone, we all have desk jobs, and if u don't balloon up to 20 stones and drink urself to death u can expect to live well beyond 70 or even 80.

OK ur spouse is the same, she will live on. but after 70 ur longevity is a lottery really, there is no rule to love longer.

I'm 46, Nadia is 24, we've got three years behind us, I'm fairly lucky in that I've still got all my hair and it's still brown, mousey brown but well. I've got wrinkles but so has a 35 yo. I love my age. I like my wrinkles. I'm 46 and I like it. The patina of age. I have knowledge, I'm not a prick who will behave like a schoolboy if Nadia talks to another guy on the bus, I won't get wound up when she's living in Germany (as she is) wondering what she's doing, who's she's with....

Age my friend, is no enemy, trust, is thine friend, lest it turn against thee.....

It's all in ur head...
 
 

[I/O]

My faith in is somewhat restored.  A couple of people have comented who can actually read. 

Gator: Your final comment was spot on the money but it seems to be lost on most. 

Ste: You've hit it pretty right IMHO, it is in the head regarding how you handle the age gap thing.  The pitty I see often is the very people who specifically search for someone much younger are the very people who can't handle it when they have it.

I/O

[LEGAL]

Russian psychologist Elisaveta Abasheva has said: "The more successful model of marriage is the  model where a husband is older than his wife; he has not any financial difficulties and inner complexes, he is in the mood for  friendly and  partner relations with his wife and she wants serene and measured life in which love and  tenderness is in the first place but not unrestrained sex. Such marriage is more stronger than marriage of man and woman of the same age. The scientists derived a formula of ideal marriage - "age of husband : 2 + 7 = age of wife" - 40 : 2 + 7 = 27 y.o. wife".

I think the age gap is just the personal bussines of two people  If they are happy with their marriage life and of course do not feel any inner complexes a public opinion or opinion of one person is nothing  I'm just glad for this  couple.

Olga

[Elen]

Let's face it, the 'boxes' have moved. 60 is the new 40. Men aren't physically knackered at 60 like they used to be any more. My dad died at 68, his at 49, because of sheer toil. Certainly here in the UK the toil is gone, we all have desk jobs, and if u don't balloon up to 20 stones and drink urself to death u can expect to live well beyond 70 or even 80.

 You have not a desire to face that reality is changed for women as well (not only in physical life condition but in "social stigma" as well  )   preferring to think and to speak ONLY about yourselves  ( including all posts which have been posted like an :answer" at I/O "question)

[Elen]

Ste: You've hit it pretty right IMHO, it is in the head regarding how you handle the age gap thing.  The pitty I see often is the very people who specifically search for someone much younger are the very people who can't handle it when they have it.
I/O

 What "specifically search" is a question though There are enough males who used to claim that they were not doing such a thing but "somehow" ( what a surprise  ) time after time they ended in realtionship with MUCH younger girls 

 And the "pitty" I see in such relationship is that it's women ( but not males) who decided that in this particular ages it's OK for them to have such a big age gap later can't bear that because it does appear that gap has tendency to increase.

 So to my mind little males you could do here to fight a time ( which does have an effect on you whatever Ste would say there)  It all will depend on woman and her decision , her physical needs ( which she can't predict at a momen she is going to altar with much older man, but experience of others does show that in too many cases those needs are sutisfied mostly if they were "law" from the begining and in too many cases it's exactly a reason for a divorse and one more marriage with a man close to "her" ages  ) , on other chances she would have to "improve" her life ( which she had not back in her country  when she married much older foreigner man) and etc

 So instead of telling here how YOU are fine in such relationship and how YOU don't feel age gap better try to find an answer at my question what WOMAN could get from such an union with you and what she could not get with some other more young male if you wish to find ways how to last in such marriages ( if a question was about THAT and I didn't took all wrong one more time)

 PS As for "congratulation" then I congratulate my own mother who is married for more than 25 years a man who is younger on 7 years than she.

[I/O]

Elen:  FWIW My parents, probably the closest example I can look to have a total age difference between them of 2 days and they will have been married since they were 19 years old for 50 years within the next 12 months.  My first marriage was to a woman 5 years younger than me.

I/O

[Elen]

And what does make you now think that you could handle a marriae with 17 (? if I recall right) age difference ? 

as for "FWIW" my example has the same "worth" like all of those who claimed here it's "natural" only for males to have more young spouse

[I/O]

And what does make you now think that you could handle a marriae with 17 (? if I recall right) age difference ? 

Elen: Two things are certain in life, one is death and the other is taxes as the saying goes.  The decision to marry is one that should never be taken lightly and there is no "Iron Clad" certainties whatever the age base of the couple.  I believe I answered your question upthread when I remarked that I am "Fairly comfortable in my own skin" and can therefore accept a fair amount of lattitude in the activities each partner wants to pursue. 

I am not one to stand and say there will not be problems.  Of course there will and I think there is a whole new set of challenges relating to an age gap relationship.  That Dear Lady, although it seems to have been lost is the question I am trying to get some more input for. How to deal with those challenges. I have my ideas, but as I stated early in the thread, they are just that, ideas, which equate to untested theories, thus I don't see much point in discussing theories.  Better to get some facts from those who have the experience.

I/O

[Daveman]

I/O,
I am pretty much in the same situation now that you were in 18 months ago, so reading about your progress is of paramount interest to me.  She's even also from Omsk.  Our age difference is 16 years.  I have been reading this thread with great interest in hopes that some who have already had success here with a larger age difference would bring their answers to your initial question of, paraphrased, "what does each bring to the table that can create and maintain success?"

My first (and only) marriage - I was 5 years younger than my ex wife and our ages had nothing to do with our divorce.  My sister is 10 years younger than her husband and they are nearing their 45th anniversary.

I am almost certain now that the qualities that make a couple compatible or incompatible, successful or unsuccessful, have little or nothing to do with age, but more with a synchronization of souls, beliefs, thoughts, and ideas, and perhaps the ages of the individuals lend them the same mental and emotional plane to arrive upon at this precise moment in each of their respective lives. And then, most importantly after arriving on the same plane is having the same goals so that future growth is in the same direction together.

Or maybe she just wants to buy me some "Depends" in a few years and get a good laugh from my senility.

I still would love to see more input to your original question, but perhaps it simply doesn't exist in a tangible, discernible, explainable form.

Dave

[Elen]

Okay age gap means nothing  .... presume
 May I then ask YOU males what could a woman who is 15 years older than you ( and who is "Fairly comfortable in her own skin" ) bring to a table to sucsess in marriage with you.  "Theoretical" answers are welcome too ( just honest ones) 

[Wayne B]

Okay age gap means nothing  .... presume
 May I then ask YOU males what could a woman who is 15 years older than you ( and who is "Fairly comfortable in her own skin" ) bring to a table to sucsess in marriage with you.  "Theoretical" answers are welcome too ( just honest ones) 

  'WISDOM' 

[I/O]

Elen:  I have been fairly patient with your nonsense throughout this thread, but it has run out and I can only conclude that you have some side agenda behind your bullh!te.  If you have nothing useful to add, then do the sensible thing and add nothing rather than making yourself look like a complete idiot.  God knows there is enough of them around without you joining into that group.

One thing all males like to avoid is a nagging woman of any age and your posts in this thread are fast looking like just that.  Think about it and then come up with something intelligent. You have been trying to challenge something irrelevent to this thread, that is men being older than women in a marriage.  This has been pretty much the norm (with a handful of exceptions) in every nation for the last umpteen hundred years.  Get over it.

A woman 15 years older than me can't have children with me so she was always off the agenda before it even started, generally she would not be attractive to me in any number of ways and if all that is too egotistical for some tastes, then too bad, live with it.    

Dave:  Yes it doesn't seem to be a subject that gains traction easily. If all else fails, I'll check back in 5 years from now with a few suggestions. Rather interesting that there is a few guys here tangled up with Omsk girls.  BTW don't start Catz on Omsk girls, he is more baised than me.

I/O

[Daveman]

Okay age gap means nothing  .... presume
 May I then ask YOU males what could a woman who is 15 years older than you ( and who is "Fairly comfortable in her own skin" ) bring to a table to sucsess in marriage with you.  "Theoretical" answers are welcome too ( just honest ones) 

Elen,
Age gap may indeed be a major factor at a later date. It may indeed present an insurmountable problem 20 years from now.

Everything in our universe has a life span. From stars to humans.  Relationships have lifespans too.  I think that every relationship probably would eventually die (fail) if given enough time because we are all individuals who continually grow and change.  The trick to successful relationships, as I see it, is to be compatible enough both in the present and with future growth so that the curve of change is longer than the curve of life.  Meaning, that one of you dies before you would have eventually grown apart.  If we lived to be 500 years old, we would see many more divorces because the changes in our partners through growth may become incompatible at age 160, or 300, etc.  What were seen as successful, life long marriages would have ended in divorce if another hundred years of life were added.  It would be even more difficult to maintain life long 'til death do us part relations if we had more years to grow and change as individuals in our lifespans.

That being said, what could a woman 15 years older than me bring to the table?  Wisdom, calmness, a more relaxed demeanor, a more understanding approach to life.

What she cannot bring, is a child.  I want to find my life partner, the woman with whom I can share my soul, but also can bring a new life into this world.  I raised two step children in my previous marriage, but, although I will love them forever, I still wish to have my own flesh and blood child.  I want to look into the loving eyes of my wife and see her smile as I feel the little kicks inside her tummy.  Well, enough of that, you get the idea.

There are many FSU women who do wish very much to have a marriage and a child, who cannot for whatever reason, find this in their own country.  Maybe one of them can love me, and I can love her, and together we can be blessed with a new life for this world.  Maybe our relationship will last only 20 years before I become to senile to be satisfying to her, but, we would have had 20 years of joy together, and the blessing of child/children - joy and blessings that neither of us would have found without finding each other.  Yes, the age gap may at some point present a major problem, but, for some of us, a woman who is our own age or older at *this* point may no longer be an option.  Should we simply say "oh well, I waited too long, so I will forget my dream for a real family." ?? 

Perhaps you can understand this.  I'm not saying that I needed a 16 year age gap for this dream to manifest.  I would be happy with a woman who is 35, or 38, or whatever, who could also still *safely* have a child.  But, most women who are approaching or over 40 are finished with children.  They've had them, and don't want more, or they can no longer safely (healthwise) have them.  I didn't set out to find a woman 28 years old, I set out to find a compatible woman who also wants a child.



I/O: In 5 years, I'll be too old to comprehend your suggestions while my young wife is wiping the drool from my geriatric mouth. Better make those suggestions in 2-3 years. :-)  Maybe one day we can all have a 'reunion' in Omsk and down a few Siberian Coronas while our wives talk about what schmucks we are. 
 

[jb]

Once again, FWIW, I've absolutely given up on getting a point across in this, or any of the more recent threads.  There seems to have been an invasion of some people who have more combative personalities and with less discussion oriented goals.  All it takes is for someone else to not worship their sacred cow, and the free-for-all begins.

IMHO, the age difference question has been hammered to death about a jillion times, with never a consensus.  Let's face the facts, men who approach this endeavor with the sole purpose of regaining their lost youth by marrying a much younger woman will never accept, or admit, that what they are doing is risky.  That is their sacred cow.  Insult it at your peril.  Even though the on-line board history has shown a low success rate for these marriages, and many of the relationships never even survive the 90 day K-1 period before the girl wakes up, sees the hand writing on the wall and heads back home,,, a little richer and a lot wiser.

The question asked was for men in large age gap marriages to tell us what they brought to the table that makes their marriage work.  If they are over 55-60 and make the claim they are still as sexually vigorous as they were in their 20's, we know they are a liar.  He may be as good once as he ever was, but he'll never again be as good as he once was.  Even with vitamin "V" by the buckets full, there is still a greatly reduced amount of sexual activity for the over 50 crowd.  This applies equally to women, it's part of growing older.   I'm reminded of the line from the 1970's Little Feat's song, "Old Folks Boogie", where Lowell George sings about an old man's mind making promises his body can't fill.  It's part of life.  Whether or not a 55+ years older man will admit it or not, the only thing he brings to the table for a hottie 20's y.o. bride, is substantially more money and a measurably better lifestyle for a young girl from an economically depressed culture.   This, I believe, is the main reason we see older men with a trip or two behind him encouraging the freshmen to search in the smaller towns where the girls are more desperate to escape the grind of poverty and avoid the fate of their grandma's.  There will be little in the way of love in such a marriage, and zero gratitude after a very short time.  Marriage is hard work, and real love is the only glue which will hold it together, a girl being grateful for an old geezer bringing her to a better lifestyle will not cut it in the long haul.  No one wants to work that hard, that long, be that exhausted, for something they don't really love.

I had often pondered why TurboGuy was so beloved by so many on this board.  He certainly had very little solid relationship advice to offer, he had failed at every turn for 10 years.  However he was tenacious at achieving his goal of finding a 20's y.o. hottie.  Then it dawned on me.  There are many other men who shared his fantasy and that was where the dividing line was drawn.   There are those who have reasonable expectations and then there are those who dream of pie-in-the-sky.

On a different issue; I/O, you can continue to fight with Elen if you like, but you need to understand she will never concede a point she has determined to defend... Maybe she ought to consider changing her screen name to "Pitbull2".   Elen is fairly typical of Russians, with a head harder than granite in an arguement.   If you marry a RW, get used to the notion that you'll rarely come out on top in a disagreement



 

[I/O]

Maybe one day we can all have a 'reunion' in Omsk and down a few Siberian Coronas while our wives talk about what schmucks we are. 

I'm in....!!!! 

I/O

[Elen]

Elen:  I have been fairly patient with your nonsense throughout this thread, but it has run out and I can only conclude that you have some side agenda behind your bullh!te.  If you have nothing useful to add, then do the sensible thing and add nothing rather than making yourself look like a complete idiot.  God knows there is enough of them around without you joining into that group.

One thing all males like to avoid is a nagging woman of any age and your posts in this thread are fast looking like just that.  Think about it and then come up with something intelligent. You have been trying to challenge something irrelevent to this thread, that is men being older than women in a marriage.  This has been pretty much the norm (with a handful of exceptions) in every nation for the last umpteen hundred years.  Get over it.

A woman 15 years older than me can't have children with me so she was always off the agenda before it even started, generally she would not be attractive to me in any number of ways and if all that is too egotistical for some tastes, then too bad, live with it.    

I/O

Why am I an idiot only because I asked the same question like you did but only applying to women ?

 Anyway you see  as far as I can see there is nobody who could add something "useful" like an answer at your question ( or I missed it??)

As for my bullsh$$ then I just tried to find out an answer at eternal question why you males such like to proclamate that ages are "nothing" for marriage but somehow refuse to even "imagine" situation with roles in other order.

Though you did answer and now all is clear without all that fog posted here why you looked for such age difference - deliberately as I got it  - a wish to have children (at your 50s   and not attractive in any numbers of ways older women. Yeah for sure ages means nothing in that matter

   ч.т.д.
 
I could live with THAT for sure   because however it would be hard for males who used to think such reasons are "natural only for men" they are the same natural for women too - few women would want to have a child with such old male and attractive does mean for women as well. As for me to get over something because it was "norm"  than you should not forget that cheating on old husbands with young lovers were pretty norm for centuries as well Live with it.