What age would be preferrable to RW?

[Gator]

It is so easy to avoid these “age” discussions because they never conclude and I hear this crap from AW.
 
My young RW encountered her first aggressively hostile AW while frolicking in Costa Rica almost 4 years ago.  She was shocked and asked why that woman is so rude and judgmental.  I told her that the problem is my age, not the fact that she is a young Russian beauty.  She replied that Moscow people would never say such, and in fact in Moscow we have never encountered such.  Things have changed, now some RW are clucking like AW hens.

I think it is wrong and inaccurate to exclaim that large age gap relationships are doomed.  The better way to express this age gap issue is as follows: if there is a large age disparity, the man and woman should develop the relationship over a sufficiently long time to build commitment to each other and to assure that the commitment is indeed solid.   And that is just the beginning because a May-December marriage will require some special qualities that are not common to every man and woman. 

[I/O]

That was sarcastic, right?

Yes of course, I used to spend much time tormenting my dear mother with this statement, she would puff up like a cock sparrow and give me a lengthly moral lecture each time. Poor mother, it was too much fun.

And why isn't that a great idea, I/O, if I may ask?

IMO a number of people simply don't handle differences in priorities very well which can change at different ages. Age gap relationships IMO are not for everyone, however I would like to draw back to the point rather than digressing in a quite transperant direction. 

Where is the cold hard data evidence substantiating more age gap Western / Russian marriages fail than non age gap marriages across the same borders? I guess the answer is self evident.....there is none and it comes down to someone or a group of someones trying to build a case to support what they want to believe, rather than examining facts and drawing provable conclusions. I am very comfortable making a range of decisions not based on such flawed logic.

I/O

[KenC]

And why isn't that a great idea, I/O, if i may ask? And the same to KenC, you stated almost the same idea somewhere else, that this definitely isn't for everybody, something like that...

Anastassia,
The probability of a successful marriage here in the US is 50/50 to begin with.  When you add into the equation the additional difficulty of a cross cultural relationship with usually some language difficulty, the odds for success have got to drop even more.  The yet additional obvious difficulties of a large age difference push the odds even lower.  I think it takes two special people to make it work and there just isn't that many special people available.  I have always said that I thought Lena and I were an abberation.
KenC

[Jazzyclassy]

It is so easy to avoid these “age” discussions because they never conclude and I hear this crap from AW.
 
My young RW encountered her first aggressively hostile AW while frolicking in Costa Rica almost 4 years ago.  She was shocked and asked why that woman is so rude and judgmental.  I told her that the problem is my age, not the fact that she is a young Russian beauty.  She replied that Moscow people would never say such, and in fact in Moscow we have never encountered such.  Things have changed, now some RW are clucking like AW hens.

I think it is wrong and inaccurate to exclaim that large age gap relationships are doomed.  The better way to express this age gap issue is as follows: if there is a large age disparity, the man and woman should develop the relationship over a sufficiently long time to build commitment to each other and to assure that the commitment is indeed solid.   And that is just the beginning because a May-December marriage will require some special qualities that are not common to every man and woman. 

I am sorry Gator , you really do suprise me, shocking me with your thinking about this matter, though I can understand , when you had your woman who was younger than you for some years, you were more critical towards age gap , as soon as you got very young partner , KenC 's casa es tu case , I understand , though why are such strong statements here in your post?

So that means if many people are being married to the same age partners are silly and you will all laugh at them telling, oi kids they do not understand what are they doing , they should have chosen older partners or something like that

do not you think your statements  are also one way fence as well , you do not accept that it is natural to marry people who are the same age. I realised you do not understand, like you told that Anastassia's mind about this matter is closed, the same it is for you and for many of us here.

[Gator]

Jazzy,

When you are fully awake, maybe you can comprehend better what I wrote.

FYI, I was married twice.  Once for 10 years to a woman (deceased) 2 years younger than me.  The other for 25 years, and she is 4 years younger than me (and after our divorce she remarried, to a man 6-7 years older than me - guess I was too young for her  ).  BTW, she divorced me and I was not seeing other women.

[Jazzyclassy]

Yeah the same  kinda asnwer all the time, when you will be fully awake:P

I am never awake for you ... always talking crap from your point of view, so let it be so ....

[2tallbill]

I have read this entire post and I have a few things to say.

First to Jen, who originated this post who I don't trust but my advice would be the same.

If you want to know or understand a Russian woman's point of view, I would (If I were you)
make a post in Russian in this section and ask that the ladies reply in Russian. The ladies all know
Russian and if you don't you can easily hire one of the ladies like Anastassia Ash or others to translate
for you. Since 99% of the men don't pay attention to Russian language posts you won't have 15+ pages of arguments that have nothing to do with your question. I think but I don't know that there may have been many Russian women answer your question but did not because of all the other arguments.

Second and this will be ignored, Kuna raised a question early in this post and started another thread. I didn't follow his thread. This is IMHO the best way to not hijack a thread. This thread has been hijacked everyone here would agree. (OK some will argue anything but most will agree)

Third why the hell do I care? I guess I don't except that I was curious about the answer to the original question.

Ladies, why did you decide to search for a mate abroad?
Of course I have asked this question to women that I have written to or visited. But I would like to hear more about it. In the beginning Lilly, Jazzy, VWWR and others were making very interesting posts and making interesting comments as well. I was hoping to get a better insight on the issue. Then it turned into a hijack. I won't get to read the answers of other RWs who could give those of us who are not married insight to what they are thinking about this.

Just my two kopecks.

Bill

[KenC]

Yeah the same  kinda asnwer all the time, when you will be fully awake:P

I am never awake for you ... always talking crap from your point of view, so let it be so ....

Jazzy,
"Talking crap"?  Rather rude, don't you think?
KenC

[I/O]

Bill: I think the thread went along quite nicely and was somewhat enlightening until this bizarre post below appeared.  After that, it was never gunna go anywhere but haywire. Much of the thread is tarred with the same brush as the below, claims, counter claims and nothing to back it up with. The moment a discussion gets onto the age thing it'll always go off like last weeks meat.

The part that amuses me is that rarely the more intelligent men argue in favour of age gap relationships, OTOH the girls by and large are screaming no no no it's no good, it won't work, it will fail, look most of them fail, but so far...............no evidence. I honestly didn't think the women would rise like trout to a bait without some real ammunition to fire, so far, just a few smoke bombs, but...................well ya learn something every day.

I/O

Lily,

 I followed the link in your profile and read that you are 40 years old so your age is a factor, also it depends on the age of the man you are willing to accept. I will be very honest Lily most men under 55 years old who are in in good health, take care of themselves and have a good income, who are looking for a Russian lady will have little interest in a lady of 40 no matter how well she has taken care of herself. I realize that other's on this forum may disagree with me but in general terms that is the reality you are facing, if you are willing to accept a man between 58 and 60ish then I believe your chances of finding someone will improve considerably.

[2tallbill]

I/O, I agree.

I have posted the same Question in Russian in the forum. I hope they answer because I am interested in gaining perspective. I used an online translator to make the post, but I am sure that the ladies can understand it, they are very clever and know the original question.

I hope that I can understand the answer in Russian if they care to answer it.

Take care,

Bill

[Mir]

The part that amuses me is that rarely the more intelligent men argue in favour of age gap relationships

And yet most of these more intelligent men end up with FSU women much younger then them!

[2tallbill]

And yet most of these more intelligent men end up with FSU women much younger then them!

Mir the age question is a good question.
I am 45 if I write a woman who is 35 and has a child. I have raised two children who were not my own children and one of them is now a Naval Aviator (a navy pilot) and a college graduate, and the other is the first person in his family history to have ever completed highschool. Am I robbing the cradle because I am writing a woman younger than myself? My exwife is 5 years older than me by the way.
Mir I mean no disrespect about the question. But what is the proper age?

I had an answer to this question that I agree with. Take your age. I am 45 and divide it in half. That makes 22 or 23. Then add seven so that makes it 29 or 30. By this formula I should not pursue women under 29 or 30 at the minimum. Older than 30 would be better for a man my age.

Since this has turned into an age debate, What do you think?

Take care,

Bill

[Jazzyclassy]

I delited by post cos I do  not think people will understand , so it is not worth it

[Jazzyclassy]

deleted cos wont looking for understanding here

[Turboguy]

Anastassia,
The probability of a successful marriage here in the US is 50/50 to begin with.  When you add into the equation the additional difficulty of a cross cultural relationship with usually some language difficulty, the odds for success have got to drop even more.  The yet additional obvious difficulties of a large age difference push the odds even lower.  I think it takes two special people to make it work and there just isn't that many special people available.  I have always said that I thought Lena and I were an abberation.
KenC

Ken, you have more experience at this than I do so I want to ask, does it really?   To me, the age difference thing would more likely create a problem at the early "attraction" stage.   Someone like Jazzy or Anastassia would have no attraction to a much older man and the whole relationship would never have a beginning.  

I won't argue the fact there are things a younger guy can offer but when I think back to who I was when I married for the first time at 24 and now, I am probably much better husband material now than then.   I am not saying I was bad material then but I am hopefully a little wiser (enough so that I would never get into a marriage like the first one again), a little more patient and etc.  

Back to my question in the opening sentence, I have not seen any difficulties surface during the relationship with VWRW (or any age related difficulties in any other relationships I have been in in my life).   We both just go along with a great happiness in our relationship and everything running very smoothly.

The first time I ever came to the Caribbean was with my wife a long time ago.  Within 24 hours the trip turned into a disaster.   I have never spent a summer together 24/7 with any woman in my life and I did at least have an occasional thought that spending that much time together was unnatural and could create a disaster.   Even couples married for decades do things like go to work or go shopping without their S/O.   Fortunately it has not caused a minutes problem.  

I did some quick math on the age difference poll here and there were 16 couples with an age difference of 20 years or more.   I also think like Sandro that there is more age difference and more potential problems with the age difference with a 35 year old man and a 20 year old woman than there is with a 60 year old man and a 40 year old women and there are lots more in that poll with a lot of age gap at a young age.   I am not a stranger to these forums but I don't recall anyone ever saying they had marriage problems due to an age gap.   I do think those involved in a relationship with one need to spend the time to know each other and if they are a one week wonder the risks may be higher.

[I/O]

Jazz: Before you deleted your post, I did read it and I understand where you are comming from, however, I am not so sure that you clearly understand where others are comming from.

First: Where did any man defend the older man younger woman thing? Yes some of us are in such a relationship, but we freely say it is not for everyone.

Second: Where did anyone say that age match marriages were bad or would all divorce? Nobody said that, the facts of similar age marriage divorce rates were quoted, nothing more.

Third: Russia's very own people created the current situation.  It has not been forced upon Russia over the centuries by other countries. The very same situation has been going on in Russia for at least 220 years (That I have read carefully about) and probably longer.  Suppression resulting in some exodus goes far back.  It hasn't changed under previous governments and it is not changing under this one to any great extent.

Fourth: Nobody is afraid of Russia. There was military tensions during Soviet Union times but Russia is not a huge player economically in the bigger picture. Sure there has been some "Energy" driven (Oil and Gas) wealth developments of recent times but manufacturing is pretty much second level, much less agriculture etc. 

Fifth: You need to understand, particularly in light of the fact that you may well end up living in the west, the men in this thread, other than a some way off comments, have sought verification of the claims.  To seek verification is not to attack like dogs. I and others want facts.  That is how success is built.  On facts, proverty and substantiation.

Let me turn it around for a moment.  A respected lady, who's posts I enjoy to read, came into this thread and stated effectively that most age gap marriages will or do fail.  Successful ones are an exception.  OK I listened up.  But what? Where is the evidence? There isn't any. Not a zott. So, what we have, and I fully respect her opinion, is this, she, maybe others like yourself would never consider an age gap marriage. For you it is just "Not your cup of tea" so to say.  That's fine.  We all agree with your right to that view AND your right to express that view.

However, what has happened here is that some of the ladies are not content with their view, they wanted to point out to the rest of us how the opposite was wrong and they had no evidence to support the argument.  I for one have asked them to come up with their evidence.  They can't. Therefore, wouldn't they have been far better to say "I would never consider an age gap marriage, so guys if you want one, that's fine, but don't be mistaken in thinking all Russian women will share your view"?

That, they can prove, that they can substantiate, that they maintain their credibility. Squawking that "You are all gunna fail" just because one doesn't agree with something is nonsense, and FWIW if you or any other Russian women tries that on in most western countries, you'll have a very miserable existence. It simply wont cut the mustard.

Do you remember on "That" forum, the threads about Western pragmatism vs Eastern Spiritualism? There is something of a demonstration right here. The ladies have argued on the basis of their preferences, the guys are largely arguing on the basis of track record.  Do you see the difference? Western societies, by and large have been built on what works, not what they hope will work. Russia went the other way a long time ago, went economically toes up and is now in a long slow rebuilding phase. Therefore you will find westerners are looking for proof, hence the attitude in this thread.

BTW it is my hope that Russia will develop economically to a point where there is no attraction for people to leave the country.  I have doubts if that will ever happen on what I have observed, but my hope still remains.

I/O

[2tallbill]

I delited by post cos I do  not think people will understand , so it is not worth it

Jazzy, I get letters very often from young women. I honesty believe that women are 5 years ahead of
men emotionally and in every other way. I don't think that any woman younger than 25 should get married or any man under 30. Yes sometimes they make it, but more often they do not.

I get letters from women that are too young from Elena's models and others. I write back to them.

"Thank you for you letter, I am flattered that you are interested in me. I am seeking a woman with more life experience and I am pursuing others. Good luck with your search. UdachiI"

Take care,

Bill

[Mir]

Bill

My comment was just an observation of the fact and not a criticism of those who have such age gaps.

Personally I believe that if you have a wife in your own country then there should be a 3-6 year age gap (the man should be older because as you observed their emotional development is slower). If a man decides to look in FSU then a gap of 10-15 years should be acceptable. The reason is that most men looking will be late thirties and late forties and most FSU girls looking Westerwards are 23-33.
Age gaps where a man is 60+ and the woman is 20 are a bit harder to accept.

[Turboguy]

My comment was just an observation of the fact and not a criticism of those who have such age gaps.

I am just making a general "observation" myself and have to wonder why everyone seems to consider their opinion on the subject to be a matter of fact.

I look at my opinion on the subject to be an opinion and suitable for myself and no one else.   I sure would not tell Anastassia or Jazzy they were insane and should be looking for a more mature and settled man and are on a road for disaster. 

[AnastassiaAsh]

AnastasiaAsh,
you ignored my comments on why an older man would make an even better husband than a younger man.   

I never said that, if i did it must have been a wrong wording or something like that. Maybe you are mixing it with somebody else's words

Anastassia,
The probability of a successful marriage here in the US is 50/50 to begin with.  When you add into the equation the additional difficulty of a cross cultural relationship with usually some language difficulty, the odds for success have got to drop even more.  The yet additional obvious difficulties of a large age difference push the odds even lower.  I think it takes two special people to make it work and there just isn't that many special people available.  I have always said that I thought Lena and I were an abberation.
KenC

AMEN to this and pretty much end of story.

2tallBill and everybody - sorry for highjacking the thread, but me personally i don't have big problem with that, just cut and paste and create another thread, maybe this is how good discussions are born, i don't know, on the other hand maybe too much emotions...

Well, I/O, i will give you some hard evidence, i can make a research even among my customers of so many years, but at the end you and others will say that it is strictly MY experience, that doesn't matter because YOURS is different, based on what 20-40 people/couples? So this is going nowhere. Maybe I should post and let everybody know as soon as i get another new client chasing young ones and suffering from all the consequences, ah? No names of course....Ridiculous... 

I also think like Sandro that there is more age difference and more potential problems with the age difference with a 35 year old man and a 20 year old woman than there is with a 60 year old man and a 40 year old women

Agreed! 

However, what has happened here is that some of the ladies are not content with their view, they wanted to point out to the rest of us how the opposite was wrong and they had no evidence to support the argument.  I for one have asked them to come up with their evidence.  They can't. Therefore, wouldn't they have been far better to say "I would never consider an age gap marriage, so guys if you want one, that's fine, but don't be mistaken in thinking all Russian women will share your view"?
Squawking that

I already said about the evidence. Please, read what KenC wrote about the risks, can you please ask HIM for that evidence! Yes, i will never consider a big age difference. MORE OVER i will advise against it to everybody who would want to hear me, to my clients. Again, i will only advise and it will be up to them to weigh everything and make their decision. "Don't be mistaken in thinking all Russian women will share your view"....OH YESSS, Lots will share, they will do everything to make you happy.....that is at first, as soon as she is here legally Chao, baby and say goodby to your life's savings forever!  People must learn to think not in 5 years increments but 10-15-20-30-40-at the end of your life. Project and think. Couples here are exceptions, totally different people come to me...

I am just making a general "observation" myself and have to wonder why everyone seems to consider their opinion on the subject to be a matter of fact.

Maybe i can't say that my opinion is a fact, but i definitely have more rights to say that it is closer to the fact (I know you all are going to eat me alive right now  ), because i deal with tens and hundreds of people! Where are other people in this business? Maybe they can share!

[jen]

I have read this entire post and I have a few things to say.

First to Jen, who originated this post who I don't trust but my advice would be the same.

If you want to know or understand a Russian woman's point of view, I would (If I were you)
make a post in Russian in this section and ask that the ladies reply in Russian. The ladies all know
Russian and if you don't you can easily hire one of the ladies like Anastassia Ash or others to translate
for you. Since 99% of the men don't pay attention to Russian language posts you won't have 15+ pages of arguments that have nothing to do with your question. I think but I don't know that there may have been many Russian women answer your question but did not because of all the other arguments.

Second and this will be ignored, Kuna raised a question early in this post and started another thread. I didn't follow his thread. This is IMHO the best way to not hijack a thread. This thread has been hijacked everyone here would agree. (OK some will argue anything but most will agree)

Third why the hell do I care? I guess I don't except that I was curious about the answer to the original question.

Ladies, why did you decide to search for a mate abroad?
Of course I have asked this question to women that I have written to or visited. But I would like to hear more about it. In the beginning Lilly, Jazzy, VWWR and others were making very interesting posts and making interesting comments as well. I was hoping to get a better insight on the issue. Then it turned into a hijack. I won't get to read the answers of other RWs who could give those of us who are not married insight to what they are thinking about this.

Just my two kopecks.

Bill

2Tall,

Well, you are right, the thread was definitely hijacked, but my philosophy is to let you guys discuss whatever you find interesting; but you're also right, it would be nice to hear more discussion about the original question, especially from the perspective of the women.

I didn't post in Russian, b/c I figured that doing it in English was more inclusive and the norm here -- but I can do so in the future is everyone is good with that.

After I finish reading this thread, I'll look for your Russian post...

BTW, I don't make a habit of asking for information by PM, but obviously if anyone feels they have something to say that they do not want to post, I would welcome your thoughts in a PM.

thanks, J.

[Turboguy]

 MORE OVER i will advise against it to everybody who would want to hear me, to my clients. Again, i will only advise and it will be up to them to weigh everything and make their decision. "

No matter what my personal feelings are, which do differ from yours I do feel quite strongly that when you get people all caught up with the emotions that go with this kind of thing and thinking with whichever head is controlling them at the moment that no matter what you say it is not going to make a bit of difference to them and you might find it more constructive to take up the flute or piccolo and save your breath for that. 

[Mir]

Anastassia

Looking at the married couples who post here it seems that in this context large age-gap couples are not an exception, but you with your small age-gap marriage are (an exception)

[AnastassiaAsh]

No matter what my personal feelings are, which do differ from yours I do feel quite strongly that when you get people all caught up with the emotions that go with this kind of thing and thinking with whichever head is controlling them at the moment that no matter what you say it is not going to make a bit of difference to them and you might find it more constructive to take up the flute or piccolo and save your breath for that. 

Yeah, i understand, Turbo, but I would do that if didn't care, but I DO, translations and calls and other hundreds of things that i do is great, but ultimately i am truly happy if i helped somebody with a relationship or guided a person to a right direction that resulted in right decisions and happy communication and marriage. I don't sleep at night i think about both men and women, their situations and how I can help. You know some times I don't want to say anything because it seems in vain and a person should make his number of mistakes first to come to some conclusions I told him 2 years ago....and some times I need to say things, even honestly and harshly maybe but it is for the better! Because i DO care and it brakes my heart to see people are trying but in vain because of things that are so clear to me....

[AnastassiaAsh]

Anastassia
Looking at the married couples who post here it seems that in this context large age-gap couples are not an exception, but you with your small age-gap marriage are (an exception)

He-he, yes, Mir, I agree with you. But I would think that nobody would want their spouse to die much earlier, I would think everybody wants to die the same day as they say or within reasonable amount of time, close together, just purely because of being old. I know it doesn't mean that young people don't die and sadly my experience is the first example of that....but... if we look at the broader and bigger picture.