The Survivors Guide to HRB/RLM

[Blues Fairy]

If someone loved me with a love like LadyX's, I would sure feel elated at first, but soon scared and crushed - though I consider myself neither childish nor weak, nor cold.  It's just too much pressure to uphold this height of emotions at all times.  Love may start high-voltage, but to survive in the long term, it needs to evolve into something quieter and more contemplative eventually.

[neo]

Lady X,

Thanks for your reply - your posts really did not offend me, i was glad to read them and it did remind me of what my wife was going through.

I have always tried to think of a womans perspective as well in a relationship and not simply do what pleased me.

You know i thought long and hard about if we could keep our marriage, but before i was with my wife i had a fiance in ukraine of 5-6 years who i was very much in love with. We had all the same problems you did because she studied to be a lawyer and we were apart so much we would have the same endless fights you did via phone and txt and mail. and we said some horrible things to each other.

we had maybe 3 to 4 serious break ups during our time, and when she finished her degree she still loved me and i went to be with her and i sat at the table and she thought i would propose marriage to her. but i simply couldnt, because i just did not feel strongly enough after all the pain and hurt of our years of fighting to be romantic, and loving and passionate enough to make this big step.

I really wanted her and to be with her, but i needed more time to try and see if we could repair the damage. but you know a Russian woman doesnt think like that, they just love and thats the end of it, you showed that to me in your post, you cannot understand why a man who says he loves you does not simply love you and needs to "think" because you love him and you do not need to think and that is the problem.

And so i gave her up because of our constant fighting and problems all my friends said she was bad and all my family told me to leave her and eventually all those negative views of my fiance were like cancer on my heart and i left her. ANd it was really my biggest mistake in life because i adored her beyond belief even though she was very much not a perfect person.

I did not think i could love another until i met my wife and realised you do not love one person in your life, you do not love a person the SAME as another person but its possible to love a person for anotehr reason. I loved my fiance for a different reason than i loved my wife, with my wife my fiance we were very passionate lovers but our relationship was much more distant to each other - very intellectual if you understand? we really respected each otehr as people and we had a lot of sexual chemistry but we didnt really have a fun friendship, we were like a lot of typical russian man and woman you see, they have good marriage because they are not so much a challenge to each other and they simply exist together in a accepted sort of harmony.

But with my wife it was just close friendship, we would just talk all the time and play and it was fun, and so i loved her the way a kitten loves another kitten because we were funny together. and i loved her in a completely different way to the way i loved my first girl and so i understood that you can move forward.

I put my wife through a really bad time, and i broke her trust, and i broke my promises to her and i let her down badly. I have learnt that while she could forgive me always i would think of all my mistakes. You know sometimes you cannot go back, you look back and you know what you have done but you really know you could make that mistake again.

Because of our time apart feelings changed and so the things that made us love each otehr and made us special together are gone, when we were married she was like a innocent child excited by the world and the experiences with her visa and our problems have made her much harder to the world, and part of what made her shine is gone, just as for her, the bad experience took away what made me special,/

Did you see the latest star wars films? where anakin is on the path to the dark side, and his wife padme is trying to save him, but all the good and love goes out of him until his anger, his bitter view of life destroys his wife and she literally dies of a broken heart - its an extreme story to show what men are capable of doing to a person they love - we cnanot hurt those people except the ones we love the most. do you understand?

So i cannot go back, to do so really just brings back more hurt to my ex wife, and as you have said you are angry at your husband because he will not let you go, he will not move forward he keeps you on a chain so you cannot forget but also he wont move forward and give you as you ask. is it fair? i do not think it is fair to do this to another, so i will not do it to my wife.

She has a chance to make a better life without me, and i cannot put my hand on my heart and say if she comes back tommorrow i could be any better a husband or make her life any better than i did, so the correct thing for me to do is let her make her life better without me.

I know i will find another, and like before i will love her in a differnet way, and all the mistakes i have made i now know and i have experience to become stronger and to make a better man for the woman in my life, because sometimes men are stupid, and we only learn by such mistakes.

But i think it is better to start fresh in such a way with a new person, because then to them you are a much better person, if you go back to the past then you always remember the persons past, and its there like a cancer inside eating away. but with a new person you have a chance to try nad be more prefect and behave better.

and dont worry about changing the subject of the post, because you can see its gone a long way from discussing any agencies which nobody seems to care about talking about!!!!

[Turboguy]

Neo, I have not decided yet if you are a genus or an idiot.   Probably you are like most of us and have some moments of real inspiration and sometimes do some idiotic things.   I did think your last post was quite good and to me you nailed what I really like about RW.  It is not nearly so much the beauty as it is the passion.   When a RW is in love with you, you know it.

I do have to queston a few things.

I think too many western marriages stagnate due to a inability face conflict with each other, and TBH if you argue with a RW on any given sunday she is going to argue back and when you fail to agree with her may throw something at you

We all should value our women better, we spend to much time finding fault with them and expecting them to be perfect and the reality is we need to look at ourselves, and think well what the hell does she want me for? im a sack of SXXXT!!!! -

I thought you had hung out in the forums before.  Never argue with a RW.   They are always right and you are always wrong.   RW101

Why were you finding fault with her.   RW have no faults.  Don't believe me, ask them!

LadyX, thanks for sharing your story.  You seem like a very wonderful woman who has gone through some rough things in a search for happiness and I am sure the happiness you find will be very long lasting.

Blues,   Good point.  It is probably one of the faults of short and long distance relationships is they don't have the time to move past the highly emotional stage to find out how you are together without the hormones raging.  

[neo]

Turbo,

Im like most men. im a complete dumbass 99.9 percent of the time which gets me in a lot of trouble, my only saving grace is to see all my imperfections, faults and mistakes and be self deprecating enough to realise i am a dumbass 99.9 percent of the time.

The real problem is pride and arroagance - the inability to find fault with yourself is the inability to grow, move forward and evolve.

My father was stuck in a rut for 50 years. he got divorced, was a drunk, a terrible dad, a bad husband do you know what? none of it was his fault. always blaming others, always the chip ont eh shoulder. i've never been like that.

The buck stops here, i don't know any more than the next guy. I was born in the year of the tiger and for the most part i just stomp about falling out of trees i was too stupid to realise i could climb up and not get down from and every so often growling at people for effect.

But like all cats im a kitten inside. i have a big heart, and a huge love of the world, and its people and all their faults.

Anyone who can admit their own faults, failings and mistakes, espcially a man in my book gets a big thumbs up.

I dont have a lot of time for those that think they are perfect or try and hide from what they know is wrong so i can be critical at times, but generally i try to do it to shine a light at people to say "you need to look at what you're doing for your own good".

But all men are fallible, thats why i hold the veiw nobodies an expert until they are dead. All we can do is try and make sense of everything together, as we go along. but to do that we have to be honest with ourselves and our others, and its tough, damn tough to look at yourself in the mirror and admit that you are doing things that are wrong, or will hurt you and say but i want to do them anyway.

I get myself into such a mess because i just live my life a day at time, i do a lot of things on emotion and a lot of things i shouldnt but i always try and look back and learn soemthing from them because every mistake becomes a success if you are prepared to learn something from it and every failure is a victory if it educates you into not failing the same way again.

and you are right, ive been in the forums long enough to know you don't argue with a RW if you want a quiet life - but wheres teh FUN in that!!!!

Arguing with a RW is more exciting than going swimming in a tank full of alligators.

How can you know you are alive until you have really LIVED!!!!

[LadyX]

< It's just too much pressure to uphold this height of emotions at all times.  Love may start high-voltage, but to survive in the long term, it needs to evolve into something quieter and more contemplative eventually.>

- Absolutely correct. That's why it is hard to be apart for too long after experience of living together. We didn't live on high emotional peaks only...

<Blues,   Good point.  It is probably one of the faults of short and long distance relationships is they don't have the time to move past the highly emotional stage to find out how you are together without the hormones raging.>

- True...

< really wanted her and to be with her, but i needed more time to try and see if we could repair the damage. but you know a Russian woman doesnt think like that, they just love and thats the end of it, you showed that to me in your post, you cannot understand why a man who says he loves you does not simply love you and needs to "think" because you love him and you do not need to think and that is the problem.

And so i gave her up because of our constant fighting and problems all my friends said she was bad and all my family told me to leave her and eventually all those negative views of my fiance were like cancer on my heart and i left her. ANd it was really my biggest mistake in life because i adored her beyond belief even though she was very much not a perfect person.>

- Yeah, yeah, yeah... Are you sure you 're not my husband?

<I put my wife through a really bad time, and i broke her trust, and i broke my promises to her and i let her down badly. I have learnt that while she could forgive me always i would think of all my mistakes. You know sometimes you cannot go back, you look back and you know what you have done but you really know you could make that mistake again.>

- There can not be a thing you can't forgive and move on if you really love... But yes, the hardest thing is to step over your offence, your ego that was touched... you gotta have heart full of love for doing that. 


<- its an extreme story to show what men are capable of doing to a person they love - we cnanot hurt those people except the ones we love the most. do you understand?>

- if you don't have intention you won't do it... if you do have intention it can be forgiven. It is not like conscious eats you from inside that you can't forgive it yourself. But it is your justification...

<But like all cats im a kitten inside. i have a big heart, and a huge love of the world, and its people and all their faults.>

- Kitten, with all of your cute charm, enjoying yourself, you have chances to play and roll the ball till being totally tangled in search of your women - every time loving 'different way', every time doing 'different' mistakes that are actually based on your surface way of loving... 
...well, I can be wrong, I only experienced my way of loving, can't argue about it...

 <Arguing with a RW is more exciting than going swimming in a tank full of alligators.>

- 
So I assume all of our RW' replies you accept leniently... 










 

[Voyageur]

Posted by JB: With that in mind, the "D" word comes easily to the lips of most RWs.  In the heat of a disagreement I've heard it more than once myself.  Beautiful Russian women sometimes, it seems, view a male as disposable,,, if things aren't just really peachy, he's more trouble than he's worth.  It is a part of their culture.  If you don't believe me, just have a glance at the number of beautiful young divorced women who place profiles on the internet.  They are there by the tens of thousands.  For all the love we profess for our ladies, the fact remains, a new marriage is one of the most fragile things in the universe.  Statically speaking, a huge percentage of all divorces occur within 5 years, and sooner.  And that's with couples who do not have an idiotic government bureaucrat to deal with.  Factor that into the picture and your goose was probably pre-cooked.  She may have dreamed you'd move to her country and make a go of it somehow, but you knew that was a pipe dream, said so,,, and dashed her dream.   The financial point Scott makes here was probably the last straw on the camel, had you had the ability to weather the storm at immigrations by living abroad for whatever period was required, the marriage might have survived, however, after that you were dead meat.  She may have agonized over the decision, she may have truly loved you, but I think the result was inevitable.

Anyone who thinks they won't ever stand in your shoes is a fool.  I've been married for over 5 years to an outstanding RW, and I'm never really sure about the next 5 years.  I work at it every day, and our life is a bed of roses compared to the story you've told here.  I doubt many marriages would survive such a shaky start.   I hope you've learned some lessons and maybe some extra Russian in the process, but personally, if I were at 39 y.o.,  I'd put all this crap behind me and put my life back together.  You don't owe this board anything and unless you just love to see your entrails opened and examined by total strangers, this is a poor place to bare your soul.

This is an absolutely awesome post. This type of understanding can only come to someone who has been in the trenches for years. I thought that these words should be printed again and not buried.

[BillyB]

So now I am asking myself and you, Billy, what is the best way? To give all myself, what means to love, sincerely, trustfully, being opened, to be prostitute ONLY for him, in his room…  Or to be fake, holding down feelings or lack of them, acting like a bi$ch making all his friend horny to make him jealous, have his $$$ stuck in his pants from boiling his blood because of jealousness, to lie him with fake smile that everything is OK, never letting him know about my feelings, hide, hold my feelings down, and behind his back saying sh$t about him to friends?..
Teach me how to love right way.

The best way to give all yourself and love? A woman can get more out of a man if she gives him sugar instead of sh!t. She will get more out of a man if she makes him feel like a man. I suspect many RW are willing to marry an older man because he makes less mistakes in life and is less childish thus she will not need to argue with him as much. With a younger man, a RW will need more tolerance and many RW have little tolerance for mistakes and immaturity.

My fiancee treats me as a man and she makes me feel like a man. She always ask me if I'm pleased with her when she does something for me. Of course I must do something to deserve this treatment from her otherwise she could walk away and find someone who deserves it. Sometimes she ask me why I did something the way I did. I give her an answer, hopefully one she could respect, and that is end of conversation. No arguing. Maybe there are times she did not respect my answer but she does not display her disapproval. So in turn, she is tolerant of my mistakes and never disrespects me by arguing with me. But of course tolerance last so long and I must do more right than wrong.

LadyX, I suspect you gave your all to a man who did not truly respect you. If he respected you, there is nothing his parents, friends, and coworkers can say for him to walk away from such a wonderful woman. Are you as wonderful as you think you are? I don't know but you and him were going to be forever until he walked away so he did not think of you as you like to think of yourself.

Men can be judgemental. A woman can have sex with a man on her first date and he will continue to have sex with her everyday as long as she allows but it's possible he will never marry her because he doesn't respect her since she gave in too early. Some men even look down on the women they did commit to if she knows too much in bed. LadyX, by you giving your all to your man in bed, he may have been confused and can't see the difference between your desire to please only him and a prostitutes desire to please any man. The reason I say that is because he doesn't write you as if he respects you wants you to be his wife but he continues to write to you dirty as if a man would do to a prostitute because he seem to only remember your nice ass and the good times in bed.

A man should be more balance when talking to his wife or future wife. He should reassure her of how much he means to him and talk about goals and plans when married. And on occasion he should remind her, when they are apart that she is beautiful and that he wants her(physically). LadyX, your man only remembers that he wants you physically but not as a wife and I understand how much hurt you're going through.

You may have turned away your man with all the times you quarreled with him. Sure the sex is fantastic after the argument but people can't live in a marriage where there is friction all the time. Also by you arguing with him, you show your disapproval of his views or actions making him feel less than a man. Maybe he is young and irresponsible and many times he deserved it but if there is too much fighting in a marriage, then maybe the marriage isn't one that should happened. LadyX, maybe it's best that you are not going to be married to this man. It's time to move on and forget about him and heal. It's time to grow and mature. Find a man who you could respect and not quarrel with and a man worthy of receiving your all.

[LadyX]

I don't know, Billy...
You are absolutely right about the way woman should behave, believe me, I was trying hard on letting him feel a man, I just was concentrated on him only, never admitting I could ever leave him "for someone who deserves me (because I didn't consider myself as princess as you probably have thought". I am too far from ideal, though I wanted to be that wonderful for him so he would never feel bored, never turn his head another way, I mean to another person... And like you said, I also was asking him if he was pleased with the things I am doing... You might have thought I advertized myself writing previous posts, but it is not that - I am really not that self confident, but to let you know I was trying to be the one a man would like to have and it seems is supposed to appreciate...
And I got confused...
I think my problem is I get too much attached to person, and nothing scares me - occasional fights, for example, because every time I think I am loved the way I love and the relationship will definitely survive...
I don't know if I should write it here, but you all have already read the most private, so I don't think this will change anything... And just for your remarks... All our arguements were based on his irresponsibility - in relationship with me, friends, in business - everywhere... - he never kept his word, even in tiny things, he could change his mind 10 times a day   not thinking about results... I am totally different and can't deal with that so , yes, that's where I was trying to do something... argueing that means pointing him at the results he didn't see or didn't want to see. And there was not once when after not listening to me he made mistakes and then came to me saying "Honey, you're gonna kill me... but you were right..." The smile when he was saying it just made me wanna hug him... I thought I am strong enough to go through it now, and as time goes, he will change so as me... Of course we were trying to find compromises always, and every time he was saying "We are learning"... but nothing changed.
I have no any right to interfere in his way of thinking, behaving, I know - people will learn more from their own mistakes... But his mistakes when he let me down - they didn't teach him anything...  not because he didn't respect me. It was because he was the way he was. But I loved and forgave.
...When I met him I didn't jump in his bed right away. He was attracted by my way of thinking, my principals of looking at things as he used to tell me - what he was looking for, we were taking a lot enjoying it... Will you say it's a bull$ all the guys say to pull you into bed? Then how to determine his intentions? If he thinks he loves me and acts the way it looks he really does?..

I don't know, Billy... Who will give me guarantee that next time will be much lucky than now? How can I identify the truth? What do you see in letters below? That his intentions were sex only and he didn't respect me?..

You are going to freak out!!!  You are going to love me soo much.  I want to
tell you that I am allowed to send you paperwork in today, the I-130 form
and the G-325A  After the government gets it and send me a letter back.  I
am allowed to file I 129F and you will get a k-3 visa to allow you to get to
the us while the I-130 form is being transfered.  So with a little luck you
could be in the us in 6-8 months.  I talked to the government just 10
mintues ago and that is what she said.  I told her everything about your
passport, and that we go married in russia.  She told me that is what you
do, what i just wrote you.  So i am going to dovote most of the  day to get
this paperwork in the mail today and get my baby home!!!!!!!!!   yes love me
love me love me,  I did something really great for myself and my
baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\\\

love you

your loving husband

I know that it only has been a day since you have left, however I am
missing you like it has been a week.  The house feels like the soul is gone,
and all that remains is a shell.   The house is very quiet.   Everyone is
very quiet.   I have changed almost over night.   I started to treated the
kids different, better and more kind.   I feel as they are the closest thing
I have to you.   However, the trust is that, is house is dead, and dark.  It
has only been a day, and don't want to live here anymore because of the way
it is know.   Last night I came home at 1100pm and went to bed.  I couldn't
sleep and tossed and turned all night.   I kept on waking up because I felt
like something was wrong, that thing was you weren't next to me.   
I love you my little baby


your man,...

I love you with all of my heart.  I have many emotions that i
am experiencing right now and i am just trying to adapt.  Just allow my
time, and when you get here you will see.  I want to give you the tools to
make yourself the best.  You will see, i want you to fullfill all of your
dreams, and i am going to try my hardest to make that happen.  You are the
best thing that has happened to me, and i thank you for that.  You are the
only, and the greatest woman in the world, and when you get here i will
treat you as such.  I love you so much and i thank you for trusting me.  And
after we have 30 years under our belt, we will look back and say how really
crazy in love we really were, and we just didn't sometimes know how to tell
each other that.

I love you so much, I can never give you up, you are stuck with me forever,
and i am happy to have you as my loving wife.  Thank you for doing something
that was hard for you, and trusting in your husband.  Thank you for
listening, and thank you for you love.  I just want you to know that i love
you very much even when i am upset.  I think about you all the time, every
day and i see you in my dreams.  You are always with me, and I need you
here.

I love you baby and tomorrow i am going ......................  I will be thinking about you the whole why up.  Just remember, I am
going to put so much attention to make everything work.  I might be alittle
rough around the edges, but I have a heart of gold, and want us to do the
best we can be, with lots of love and happiness.  just have faith in me, and
look at the end result not the steps that get us there!!!

Love you baby, i am going to bed, i just came home from two doubles and i am
tired.

love you my wife

...That's why I can't understand...

You all are right - I have to move on, it's just too hard, but I'm sure time will heal somehow...

And thank you very much to all of you for understanding and good advice

[LadyX]

P.s. Awesome avatar, neo!

[Bruce]

This thread is a perfect example of why Neo is a huge plus for any RW board out there.  Neo, thanks for sharing some of your experience in the fast lane.  Most guys do not have any idea what it is like to run in your circles, nor could they.  Most guys envy you.  For your next girl I do hope that you concentrate on the words honesty, character and candor, though it sounds like you now have the next one and I sure hope she has those three words amongst other character traits.    Neo and lady X thanks for sharing and lending great insights into the culture we all navigate, attempt to navigate or aspire to navigate  .

[Hub]

Men can be judgemental. A woman can have sex with a man on her first date and he will continue to have sex with her everyday as long as she allows but it's possible he will never marry her because he doesn't respect her since she gave in too early. Some men even look down on the women they did commit to if she knows too much in bed.

Quite surprising for me to read.  I realize this was the thinking in 1850 or maybe even in 1920.  But do any men really think this way in 2007?  Is this your way of thinking Billy?  It is certainly not mine.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of men think the way Billy describes in the year 2007.

[Turboguy]

I think that way but then again I was born in 1850 and got divorced and started dating again in 1920.   

I won't say that if hypothetically I would have had a really strong communication with her prior to the meeting to the point where we really had something special and we seemed to have the most amazing chemistry I could imagine when we met I might overlook it.  Otherwise I would tend to think of her as someone who hops into bed at the drop of a hat and that it would likely be the same after marriage.   I would also think that would likely include the neighbors and the mailman and not just with me.   

[Gator]

Incredible that a man would judge a woman based on one natural act and ignore all of her other qualities. 

And the more artful a woman is in bed, the better.   

That is my opinion.  Your opinion may differ. 

It does not matter what percentage of men feel one way or the other.  What matters is how one man's values align with his woman's values.

[Hub]

Otherwise I would tend to think of her as someone who hops into bed at the drop of a hat and that it would likely be the same after marriage.   I would also think that would likely include the neighbors and the mailman and not just with me.   

OK, so let's take this same woman who actually has hopped into bed very early with dozens of men (but you never knew about it, and never will know about it).  But with you Turbo, she waits a while longer.

So now Turbo, you feel very good about her, right?  Women can play we men like a piano.  They can read us and decide if their long term chances with us would be better if they were quick or if they play harder to get.  Same woman, just different actions with different men in their lives.

[BillyB]

LadyX, I read the letters your husband wrote to you and it seems as if he did love you and wanted you then. But the fact is he is not delivering on his promises, not talking about marriage and still writing you sexually explicit letters tells me he does not consider you wife material. In other words, he is looking down at you. At this point I think he's at fault because he isn't mature enough to discuss with you why he had a change of heart and he is breaking up with you in a very heartless way. You can find out a lot about a person when you break up with them or they break up with you. Best wishes in finding a better man.
 

Quite surprising for me to read.  I realize this was the thinking in 1850 or maybe even in 1920.  But do any men really think this way in 2007?  Is this your way of thinking Billy?  It is certainly not mine.

Quite surprising for me to read what you said Hub. On what basis does your knowledge come from on how men were thinking in 1850 and maybe 1920? Maybe you're in the dark today but many men go to bars for one night stands and repeat sex with the woman and do not think of the women as marriage material. So yes, many men are judgemental. I personally wouldn't label a woman a slut if she slept with me on the first night but I, like all people and you, will evaluate whom I'm dealing with pertaining to how they act in certain circumstances.

So now Turbo, you feel very good about her, right?  Women can play we men like a piano.  They can read us and decide if their long term chances with us would be better if they were quick or if they play harder to get.  Same woman, just different actions with different men in their lives.

Sounds like you've had one too many bitter experiences. Do you think women play men like a piano and hard to get as if it's a game? They are out there and those are certainly women I'd avoid but not all women are like that and sincere women don't deceive. The big titted woman that got away from Gator because he made his move to fast has standards that I respect. She was attracted to Gator and considered him serious relationship material and was not playing him or playing hard to get to get his respect. I don't believe Gator is a sexual pervert but because he did the same actions as other men, the woman classified Gator like all the others. From what I've read from him here, I consider him a better catch for a woman than most men and thus if the big titted woman gave him a second chance, she might have been happy with him. But reality is most men who try to get a woman in bed the first night is not placing priorities on her brain and charcater first and that is a red flag to most women. So women, like men, can be judgemental too and for good reasons although they aren't always right.

[Turboguy]

HUB,  Nothing in life is perfect.   Maybe you arrived the day she started her period and that is why she did not hop in the sack with you until the 4th or 5th day. 

We each have our own ideas.  Some people WANT an open marriage.  Some WANT a swinging lifestyle.  Personally in getting married I would want to be faithful to her and to hope she would be faithful to me.  Moving for a minute from a hypothetical discussion to real life I think my being faithful to the woman I will be marrying is very important to her.  I have pretty much told VWRW that there are two ways we will get divorced.  One is if she decides this is not right for her.  The other is if she cheats on me.  Otherwise she is stuck with me.   There is a couple who have split up and both had posted here.   She had made the statement that if she married him and found someone she was attracted to that she would have sex with him.  Basically to her it was just sex and not important.   Some might accept that but it is not my idea of a marriage.   If I wanted that kind of life I would  stay single. 

My point I tried to make before was that I would have more faith in a woman with whom I had an emotional connection before we had sex.  Yes, in some cases that could happen on the day you met and I would not say that when I was searching I had any absolute rules.   I will just say if a girl was too easy it did leave me with the impression she was easy. 
 

[Blues Fairy]

Otherwise I would tend to think of her as someone who hops into bed at the drop of a hat and that it would likely be the same after marriage. 

Typical patriarchal logic suggesting that women are inherently unable to make their own decisions about whom to sleep or not to sleep with (or any strategic decisions for that matter).  If she sleeps with you on the first date, it has to be because she just sleeps with everyone, right?  And God forbid if she makes the first move! 

[Turboguy]

The truth of the matter Blues, is that I have not been in that situation to know what I would do.   Often what we say and what we do are two different things.  I have a feeling hypotetically that if I had met someone that I thought was the right person I would not have let it stop me. 

I have shared the view that I have heard others say that if you meet a girl and she hops in the sack too quick we tend to think of her as loose and if she takes to long we tend to think she is not into us and I have seen a lot of disucussion where guys and women have talked about the 5 date rule. 

When I think back to the decisions I made in real life both good and bad I am not sure I would have ever really paid much attention to it.   No, it would have never bothered me in the least if she made the first move.

[Gator]

Turbo,

The truth of the matter Blues, is that I have not been in that situation to know what I would do.   

That sounds like Bill Clinton's version of the truth.

[Turboguy]

Not quite that Gator.   I was refering to makng a decision to marry someone whom I had sex with very quickly.   I have not really made the decison to marry that many times in my life.  Having sex quickly, well I might have had that happen once or twice ah or ah ah well might have had that happen.

Actually I did a lot of running my past through my mind trying to decide how my real feelings comparted to what I thought I felt.   Before I did that I would have guessed what I first said was right.   Now I think my quest was always for the right person and I had met her and if we had hopped in the sack 10 minutes after meeting perhaps I might have looked hard at what her ideas and beliefs about marriage were but I would not make that a flag day celebration with a full array of red flags.

[Gator]

10 minutes is quick.  It took longer than that in the 1970s.

Scenario 1:  A woman and you meet for the first time and spend a delightful evening together.  The two of connect in many ways, the “chemistry” is good, and you seem to share so much.  You kiss. It progresses naturally without either leading the other.  It was wonderful and beautiful, and it had far more than a physical dimension.  And now you will disrespect her!

Scenario 2:  Now if the woman and you had a so-so date, her English is limited, and you are bored so you make a move.  She yields.  Okay, you had physical fun and I hope she did too.  But would you have dated her again if you did not have sex?  Probably not, I guess.

[Turboguy]

Ok, let me give you a scenario.  I posted something about this a long while back.

You decide to go to a agency social.  You sit at the table with your terp and talk to many women.  The day is winding down and you need to pick one to go have dinner with.  There was a very pleasant very cute, but not beautiful gal who had traveled 10 hours by train to come to the social.  Your terp goes to see if she would be interested and comes back with a yes.  The arrangement is to meet at the end of the social.   You visit with a few more and the social ends.  The girl you invited comes up to you and asks if she can leave her suitcase in your room while you go to dinner.  You say of course and you both go off to the room.  She steps into the room, turns around to face you, drops to her knees and unzips your pants.   Yes, I know she was invited for dinner.   I won't go into more details about the rest of the night but I will just say there were solders after the battle of Stalingrad who looked better than I did the next day and that would include some of the dead ones.

Basically the gal fit the criteria I would have in my search for a wife.  She was very cute, great figure, nice personality, fairly good English, seemed to like me.   What would the reaction of some of the other guys be in a situation like that.  Would the rest of you look at her actions as a plus or a minus. 

[Turboguy]

Gator, I probably would have looked at your scenario 1 as in the realm of normal chemistry and not as a negative.

Scenerio 2.   Would you date her again since you did have sex or would it depend if there was a game on tv?

[Mir]

You say of course and you both go off to the room.  She steps into the room, turns around to face you, drops to her knees and unzips your pants.   Yes, I know she was invited for dinner.   I won't go into more details about the rest of the night but I will just say there were solders after the battle of Stalingrad who looked better than I did the next day and that would include some of the dead ones.

Basically the gal fit the criteria I would have in my search for a wife.  She was very cute, great figure, nice personality, fairly good English, seemed to like me.   What would the reaction of some of the other guys be in a situation like that.  Would the rest of you look at her actions as a plus or a minus. 

Before anyone comments can you please tell:
Did you marry her? If the answer is no then:
 Please tell why you did not marry her? (and PM her contact details to me, thanks) 


And if you did not then why