league and age gaps

[I/O]

Are you saying an older RW would have a better grasp of American finances and not be strong willed?

No. Nothing to do with "American" financial systems. Simply being able to weigh all the issues of a dollar or a ruble and see the wider value rather than just looking at the immediate cost or not looking at the cost and running with emotions. That is an experience and IMO age thing.  Not talking about strong willed, talking about when to apply that strong will and a woman of greater experience mostly will use it with some more discretion.  Mine says that herself.

I/O

[IAmZon]

JACK WROTE "So Riv I politely ask you to back-off from you attacking jb.  There are many other individuals here that you can fight with   Arguing  to such a great degree.  Without trying to sound condescending you have to start out as a lightweight and slowly work yourself up to the heavyweight bouts."

Some members here I have found great respect for and you are certainly one.  So lay off JB I will. 

[Turboguy]

Scenario C (joking mostly).  A new Russian restaurant opens up.  You and your wife decide to try it out.  The decor is beautiful.  The service is prompt and polite.  The food is amazing.  The best Russian Cuisine you have ever found in America.  The check comes and you had expected such wonderful food to cost more.  You leave vowing to come back often.  A few days later you run into three acquaintances.  You mention the restaurant and they say, Yes I went there.  It was terrible, don't even think about going there.  I ask what they didn't like, if it was the food, the service, the price etc?

I/O says it was Russian Food,
Neo say he is a food addict.
Scott says there was a football game on that night.

[I/O]

I/O says it was Russian Food,

Wrong again Turbo, the problem was the meat was not cooked. I like mine medium to well done, you seem to prefer raw to blue.

I/O

[Turboguy]

Great answser I/O.   I was just joking with that post anyway.  I do appreciate the comments you made.

[Voyageur]

T/G,

I also have a marriage where the age gap is more than a decade. It falls about in the middle of average of the poll results that were on display here a few months back.

I won't go into specifics on the what's and how's the age gap issues manifest themselves in you daily life on a public forum. It is because I protect my relationship deals by only dealing with generalities.  To me it is the most respectful way and a rule of ours. I suspect the other OMB (after two years of marriage, do I now get to call myself this?  I think the requirement should be > 5 years) have a similar code. 

I have been away for a while due to a change in jobs and location.  When I come back to read this forum, I am always struck when I read other's stories, like Neo's story, and I see the similarities to my own relationship. Just for the record, everything is going great. However, I can sometimes see common themes in other's experiences   I can only say that I find myself agreeing more with the views of the established married guys than the newer guys because I have seen firsthand that what is said here - others may not like it - often is what is true. I don't say this specifically about your situation, but you have to at least acknowledge that the majority of opinion can't be that misinformed.

What is dismaying is that the others have resorted to name calling and insults. I wish you the best and as a fellow human being - you should have your right to live your life any way you see fit.

[Turboguy]

Thanks for the nice post Voyager.   I have to agree that sometimes it may be better to not divulge too much on the forums.   I am not sure what point someone reaches the OMB stage but with or without it your opinions have always been well thought out and on the mark.   

I am not sure if it is a good thing or not to read similarities in Neo's story.   The only parallel I can see is the visa problems we have had and the potential that they may not be over.   In our case if we have real problems we have already decided where we will live and have two optional things to do for a living.  Hopefully it will not be something we need to worry about.  Again, Thanks!

[ScottinCrimea]

Scenario C (joking mostly).  A new Russian restaurant opens up.  You and your wife decide to try it out.  The decor is beautiful.  The service is prompt and polite.  The food is amazing.  The best Russian Cuisine you have ever found in America.  The check comes and you had expected such wonderful food to cost more.  You leave vowing to come back often.  A few days later you run into three acquaintances.  You mention the restaurant and they say, Yes I went there.  It was terrible, don't even think about going there.  I ask what they didn't like, if it was the food, the service, the price etc?

I/O says it was Russian Food,
Neo say he is a food addict.
Scott says there was a football game on that night.

Yeah, I hated missing the football game, but here's what actually happened:  The food was great, the service excellent, and the price reasonable.  Everything was wonderful at the restaurant.  But later, once I got home, the food began to settle and became very disagreeable.  All that wonderful time in the restaurant was replaced by an equal or greater time in front of or on top of the toilet and ultimately everything ended up in the toilet.

 

[HiTech]

Scott: As a doc, I would have thought you would know by now, every thing you eat always ends up in the toilet.

[Turboguy]

Scott: As a doc, I would have thought you would know by now, every thing you eat always ends up in the toilet.

Yes, but it is always a lot better when it happens the way it is supposed to.

[Mamma D]

Have any of you looked at the age difference in some of the men running for the 2008 presidential race?

Hay works for them.... don't knock it...

It is such a personal thing and if both sides agree... who are we to judge?

Mamma D married to my best friend 58 years.....just lucky, I guess.

[IAmZon]

There are sub-plots to RWD. Turbo and Irene is one of the most popular.  But I have come to know both as adults proceeding with eyes wide open.  What more can be asked?

There is much value that comes from experienced guys and their insight - no doubt.  It should be noted that many of the "experienced" guys (men who have frequently traveled to Russia, or Ukraine) lack EXPERIENCE (as a capable and eligible bachelors in there home country). So, I will stick my neck out a little farther to make a limited observation and invite comment from those with more weight.

I have noticed this:

The term mail order bride may originate with the marketing of FSU women's interest in finding a Western man and "escaping" financial conditions.  There is another component, however, and that is the Western man wanting to pick a fruit (woman) from the tree (culture) - as if this could be done cleanly and easily without cost in reality. 

It seems to me that a man is not only finding a woman to share his life ... but is also bringing a different culture into his life in a rather profound way.

I have found this dynamic to be delightful, but it has also a VERY BIG component in my relationships.  And my relationships have been with very smart and resourceful ladies that aggressively aspire to assimilate into the west - not a meeting of novelty or curiosity as I presume many meetings in the foreign country are.

So, again, I have found that age gaps and league are different and more forgiving to superficial (physical) evaluations.  I am also suggesting that this apparent benefit comes with a cost.  One must assimilate great cultural differences into a relationship that complicates the marriage process. 

To generate a good discussion from this point by those who know would be of interest to me, and others I am sure.

[KenC]

There are sub-plots to RWD. Turbo and Irene is one of the most popular.  But I have come to know both as adults proceeding with eyes wide open.  What more can be asked?

A little more honesty and truth IMO.  I have no problem with them as their problems will not be mine, but when there is misinformation or misleading info posted, I speak up.

There is much value that comes from experienced guys and their insight - no doubt.  It should be noted that many of the "experienced" guys (men who have frequently traveled to Russia, or Ukraine) lack EXPERIENCE (as a capable and eligible bachelors in there home country). So, I will stick my neck out a little farther to make a limited observation and invite comment from those with more weight.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with your statements here.  I have always found that men that "did well" in the dating scene in their home country have the easiest time with this process.  In fact, I would even go as so far as to say that there is probably a direct correlation between successful daters to those who become successful in this venture.

Where I think you are misled is in the fact that the inexperienced guys even have a chance at this.  The guys that stumbled and fumbled their way through the American dating scene do have a shot at this too.  But the more inexperienced the man in relationships with women, the more likely he is to fail IMO.  It is these type of men that feed the RW sharks and are very easy "marks" for them.

The term mail order bride may originate with the marketing of FSU women's interest in finding a Western man and "escaping" financial conditions.  There is another component, however, and that is the Western man wanting to pick a fruit (woman) from the tree (culture) - as if this could be done cleanly and easily without cost in reality.

 
The term MOB goes back a lot further than this recent phenomena of RW.  In fact MOB's were an unoriginal marketing idea at best.  It is simply "supply meeting the demand."  Western miners (men) didn't have any women to choose a wife, so they were brought in to supply the demand.  Not much has changed really.  America has a segment of men that are not happy with the choices domestically and there is a great supply of willing and available RW that are not too thrilled with their choices either.  The Net just brings them together much easier than a wagon train.

Your statement that this can be done "cleanly and easily without cost" does expose your naivety and lack of experience.  Tell us how easy it is after you accomplish something, not before.

It seems to me that a man is not only finding a woman to share his life ... but is also bringing a different culture into his life in a rather profound way.

I have found this dynamic to be delightful, but it has also a VERY BIG component in my relationships.

 
Not all RW/AM relationships are rich in cultural exchanges.  You see kind of a slanted view of things here from the experienced guys.  Men that don't care about broadening their cultural horizons would not be posting here.
 

And my relationships have been with very smart and resourceful ladies that aggressively aspire to assimilate into the west - not a meeting of novelty or curiosity as I presume many meetings in the foreign country are.

Your presumption is dead wrong!  Most RW listed in agencies are as serious as a heart attack!!!  (Excluding scammers of course)

So, again, I have found that age gaps and league are different and more forgiving to superficial (physical) evaluations.  I am also suggesting that this apparent benefit comes with a cost.  One must assimilate great cultural differences into a relationship that complicates the marriage process. 

I am not really understanding your train of thought here, but I will give it a go.  Because of the cultural difference, RW tend to be more open to bigger age gaps and are less concerned with men's physical appearances.  They are quite a bit deeper than their American sisters in that regard.

To generate a good discussion from this point by those who know would be of interest to me, and others I am sure.

Hope you find my comments interesting.
KenC

[Turboguy]

Well I was heading for bed but I will make one last post first.

Rivardco, thanks for the nice comments.   Sometimes popular may be the right word, some may think notorious is more fitting.   

I think both you and Ken have valid points.  The differences are about as perfect an example of the truth laying somewhere between as you will find.

I will agree that men who do well in the American dating scene will have the easiest time.  I have seen many cases where guys had great difficulty in the American dating scene do well in the FSU.   Doing well for one may be far different than for the other.   A guy who is handsome, successful and polished my go and come back with what we call a 10.   Someone who is in the looser class here can go and come back with a good woman.  Maybe she is going to be in a very different league than the stud but it will still be a good woman. 

Personally I think the sharks are more fed by the uninformed than by guys who don't do well in the American dating scene.   I have met a fair share of shark food and if most had found RWD instead of the website of some highly advertised agency most could have succeeded to some extent.  It is very similar to computers.  You know what they say, GIGO  (Garbage in Garbage out)

[Kuna]

Rivarco,

Dude... mate... cobber...  I don't know what you've been smoking but KenC's last past really covers off everything I've been trying to word for a day or two.

To me... for a while... you were on track with your thoughts but for some reason recently you've been coming to some conclusions that are way off.

I'd encourage you to not come to any decisions before you get on the ground in FSU because nothing you imagine will lay out as imagined.  That's a bg part of the fun you'll experience.

Well I was heading for bed but I will make one last post first.

Rivardco, thanks for the nice comments.   Sometimes popular may be the right word, some may think notorious is more fitting.   

I think both you and Ken have valid points.  The differences are about as perfect an example of the truth laying somewhere between as you will find.

I will agree that men who do well in the American dating scene will have the easiest time.  I have seen many cases where guys had great difficulty in the American dating scene do well in the FSU.   Doing well for one may be far different than for the other.   A guy who is handsome, successful and polished my go and come back with what we call a 10.   Someone who is in the looser class here can go and come back with a good woman.  Maybe she is going to be in a very different league than the stud but it will still be a good woman. 

Personally I think the sharks are more fed by the uninformed than by guys who don't do well in the American dating scene.   I have met a fair share of shark food and if most had found RWD instead of the website of some highly advertised agency most could have succeeded to some extent.  It is very similar to computers.  You know what they say, GIGO  (Garbage in Garbage out)

 

Damn you say some foolish things sometimes.

Turbo...  instead of trying to see everything through rosy glasses why not just see reality for what it is.

[Turboguy]

Kuna, it is not that I say foolish things.  It must be your comprehensive skills.   I will explain again but try to bring it down to a first grade level for you. 

1.  Most any man can find a woman who is reasonably right for them.  It does not matter if he is rich and handsome or fat and ugly.   Usually the rich and handsome man will end up with a beauty queen at least in the fsu.  The fat and ugly guy may end up with a fat and ugly woman.  (If I am still loosing you let me know and I will draw pictures)

2.  Even a fat and ugly guy can find a woman in the FSU.  He may even find one that is plain and chunky (still OK?)

3.  The biggest problem is the fat ugly guys listen to the agency hype and go over expecting to meet a wife on the same level as the handsome rich guy and there are enough scammers that feed that as well.

4.  With the exception of guys who have low incomes and can't afford to travel and nutcases (even some of those succeed for a while) and extreme cases most anyone can find a wife in the FSU.   It will probably be a notch or two above what they can do here and a notch or two above nothing is a woman with real arms and legs but she may not be the first one you see on A-Web's home page.

5.  One of the problems is the agency's convince them they can find a 20 year old beauty queen who will be happy to come back to their shack and pop out kids and cook and clean. 

If you think any of that is foolish I have to question your state of mental health.

[vwrw]

I know that RWD is not the right place for demonstrating love but I am so overwhelmed that I cannot resist saying…
Ray, I am so much proud of you!

[Turboguy]

 

[KenC]

Turbo,
I guess we have a different definition of what constitutes success.  In spite of your 11 year quest to find the right woman, I still will say that any man can find a woman in the fsu to marry him.  The tricky part, as I see it, is to be happily married.
KenC

[IAmZon]

TG, VWRW ... GET A ROOM

Ken C - valuable input as always.  Thanks

Kuna - I tried to smoke something recently, but it did not have the affect I was seeking:) It brought me paranoia.  Guess I am a scotch man for a while longer.

BTW, All I am saying, brother, is this:  In the beginning, a guy (me) is excited with possibilities of finding a women how is physically, emotionally, and psychologically a notch or two above what they can find at home.

THAT REMAINED A QUESTION FOR ME. "whats the catch".  I have come to learn that there is catch (which may be a good thing, or a bad thing, depending on the man).  The difference in age gaps and league is one of many different cultural interpretations between the West to FSU.

Others include, but are not limited to:
giving and receiving social civilities
argumentation style
work ethic
Very specific and very strong expectations of a man
flirtation with the opposite sex
sexual behavior and roles - sexuality vs. sensuality
perception of infidelity
food
religion
sense of "duty" to live - a serious, stoic side
intolerance of / to service providers
phobias of systems: schools, employers, governments, banks
a brand of selfishness that requires a different definition than the one we use
humor
importance of status - President of a company; private plane

Of course these are a collection of generalities that can not be applied to any groups with great accuracy; but ...

[KenC]

rivardco,
The answer you are truly looking for is as follows:

Marriage to a RW is infinitely more difficult than a marriage to an AW, but the rewards are also infinitely greater!

Now get your butt on a plane!
KenC

[Gator]

Rivardco,

This is one obscure thread.

I ignored it at first because I had no idea what you were saying.  The choices:

-  Do you feel AW are more preoccupied with how a man looks than his inner qualities.
-  Do you want to find a RW who is better looking than he can captivate in the USA (and he feels the need for a confession)?
-  Are you making fun of the losers from America as if you are a kinder SmoothOperator?
-  RW will judge you based on your inner qualities as well as your looks, and you wonder if you have the “right stuff” for a RW?


Your recent posts could have clarified; however, they contain more obscurities and have a couple of erroneous if not inane comments.  I am still at a loss as to your objective. 

It is not just you.  Anyone who posts here seems to be drug into the twilight zone or a barroom brawl. Kuna’s response to Turbo surely was intended for another thread unless this is a canned response that his computer automatically posts after every Turbo entry.

Rivardco, what exactly would you like to know?  One simple short sentence please.

You have been a member here for almost a year (?) and have yet to begin planning a trip.  You have vacillated between going to FSU or dating here, between different types of women you would pursue if you did go, etc.   Nevertheless, you seem like a nice, sincere man.  If you are indeed interested in RW, you need to go to the top of the mountain, sit, and get focused. 

(I wrote this prior KenC's post.  I think KenC succinctly covered my 6 paragraphs in one sentence.  Except that I would add, RW are worth it (or seem to be because I have never married one).

[HiTech]

Rivardco:
Of all your list I have experienced them all and have a basic understanding of the difference. Except this one, I have experienced it but have not figured out the FSU definition of it yet.

a brand of selfishness that requires a different definition than the one we use

Anyone have a better insight?

Dale

[IAmZon]

Cure for the obscure:

While I was "just doing it." ...  I spent the greater part of August with many FSU girls - my girl friend and her roommates and their extended friends.  I have come to know this group very well now, not just passing through. 

There is as 17 year age gap between me and my girl.  One of her roommates is dating a professor at a NYC university - 22 year old age gap.  One of our friends is a beautiful, beautiful 24 year old girl ... who is dating a guy with dreadlocks - not pretty.

Put all of what I had seen in context made me say, "Hey, age gaps and league are frequently asked simple questions.  So simple that the real answers don't fit.  The real answers  - the truth as I have seen it - are deeper and involve cultural differences."  Ken C and others have offered comments to why this is so

[Gator]

I am about to give up!

Do you mean that there is much more to consider than just the difference in ages?  Well, yes (duh).  How the two of you connect is important (duh).  Please tell Jazzy this.

I do have a personal rule, the greater the age gap, the more time you should spend together to decide about marriage.  Give yourself enough time for lust to wear off and your relationship as two friends and partners to solidify.  Minimum of two years.

Are we closing in on the target?  Or, are you one of those men chasing young tail whose mind is already made up and you are hoping for support from cheerleaders.

Does your young dyev need to marry to extend her stay in the USA?  Or is she here on a student visa and just needs your financial support?